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Updated: Travellers can stay...for now
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| Travellers celebrate outside the Royal Courts of Justice |
HUNDREDS of travellers today won a High Court battle against immediate eviction.
A judge ruled that the families should be allowed to stay on at Dale Farm, Crays Hill, and Hovefields, Wickford, for the time being while concerns about their needs and welfare are further investigated.
Mr Justice Collins, sitting at the High Court in London, said decisions to evict taken by Basildon District Council in December last year cannot stand.
Aware that his decision might cause controversy, the judge said he was conscious that the council might feel the delay in carrying out the evictions was to be deprecated.
"Nonetheless, the decision, whichever way it goes, must be based on consideration of all that is relevant," the judge ruled.
Moves to remove the travellers, involving the issuing of enforcement notices, have been going on for several years.
Last December, the council decided to use section 178 of the Town and Country Planning Act 1990, to enter the land and enforce compliance with the orders.
The judge said there could be no doubt that the families could not remain where they were and the time must come when they would have to leave, "whether voluntarily or by means of forcible eviction."
He warned them: "Despite the difficulties they face and the absence at present of sufficient sites to meet their needs, travellers and gypsies must appreciate that the law will not tolerate developments without planning permission being obtained, particularly on Green Belt land, and will be likely to uphold enforcement action where the individual circumstances of those affected have been properly considered against the harm to the environment and to relations with the community."
But it was necessary "for all relevant matters to be properly taken into account" and that had not occurred in the Basildon case.
It was impossible not to have some sympathy with the problems created for gypsies and travellers by the lack of sufficient sites to cater for their proper needs.
The judge said the approach to their "needs" taken by Basildon council had been "too restrictive".
He also did not think the duty owed by the local authority to the travellers under homelessness laws had been sufficiently dealt with.
Further consideration should be given to whether any alternative sites could be found in the district, and whether any families could be allowed to remain "for the time being".
The judge said: "Finally, I think that the approach has been that the sites should be cleared, rather than a consideration of whether there are any individual families whose circumstances are such, whether because of serious ill-health or the needs of their children, that in their individual cases eviction would be disproportionate."
Richard Sheridan, president of the Gypsy Council, welcomed today's ruling, saying: "It is a victory. We have won round one, and we are hoping to get justice at the end of the day.
"As British citizens we are entitled to live like everybody else.
"Keeping us on the road costs £18m a year. The cost of eviction would be £1.9m, with court costs of nearly a million pounds.
"Leaving us where we are will save the Government millions of pounds, and our kids will be able to be educated and our families live in decent sanitary conditions."
11:09am Friday 9th May 2008
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CommentPosted by: Sarah, Billericay on 11:23am Fri 9 May 08
Unbelievable - us taxpayers should revolt. What planet are these judges on? This hardly does anything for community relations!
Unbelievable - us taxpayers should revolt. What planet are these judges on? This hardly does anything for community relations!
Posted by: Peter, Billericay on 11:28am Fri 9 May 08
Perhaps Basildon council should buy land near where the judge lives and move them there!!!
Its unbeliveable!!
Perhaps Basildon council should buy land near where the judge lives and move them there!!!
Its unbeliveable!!
Posted by: Ricayboy, Billericay on 11:31am Fri 9 May 08
This case will go on forever.
This case will go on forever.
Posted by: Paul on 11:31am Fri 9 May 08
Look at all the dosh this has cost us tax payers trying to evict them.
If I got myself a bit of greenbelt land and moved all my relations on it I would have been chucked off yesterday.
FACT.
Look at all the dosh this has cost us tax payers trying to evict them.
If I got myself a bit of greenbelt land and moved all my relations on it I would have been chucked off yesterday.
FACT.
Posted by: Nigel on 11:32am Fri 9 May 08
This shows how politicised the judiciary has become. The left wing is so totally established within the fabric of society that it will take the incoming Conservative government a long time to root it out.
Only then can we begin to move forward.
This shows how politicised the judiciary has become. The left wing is so totally established within the fabric of society that it will take the incoming Conservative government a long time to root it out.
Only then can we begin to move forward.
Posted by: Nigel on 11:32am Fri 9 May 08
This shows how politicised the judiciary has become. The left wing is so totally established within the fabric of society that it will take the incoming Conservative government a long time to root it out.
Only then can we begin to move forward.
This shows how politicised the judiciary has become. The left wing is so totally established within the fabric of society that it will take the incoming Conservative government a long time to root it out.
Only then can we begin to move forward.
Posted by: Bitta, Southend-on-Sea on 11:38am Fri 9 May 08
Nigel, if you think it'll will be any different if/when the conservatives are in power then you are sadly mistaken.
Nothing will change, we are the dumping ground and laughing stock of Europe.
Nigel, if you think it'll will be any different if/when the conservatives are in power then you are sadly mistaken.
Nothing will change, we are the dumping ground and laughing stock of Europe.
Posted by: Steve on 11:42am Fri 9 May 08
What is there to consider, someone enlighten me?
They are there on land which by law you cannot live on, therefore whether they are Gypsies or not, they should be made to leave.
What is there to consider, someone enlighten me?
They are there on land which by law you cannot live on, therefore whether they are Gypsies or not, they should be made to leave.
Posted by: Luke, Basildon on 11:53am Fri 9 May 08
Things will change under the Conservatives.
Fact: The Conservatives are the only Party in Basildon to fight illegal development by travellers in the district.
Fact: Conservative MP John Baron introduced a Greenbelt protection bill to parliament in 2003, but Labour rejected it.
Things will change under the Conservatives.
Fact: The Conservatives are the only Party in Basildon to fight illegal development by travellers in the district.
Fact: Conservative MP John Baron introduced a Greenbelt protection bill to parliament in 2003, but Labour rejected it.
Posted by: anon on 12:00pm Fri 9 May 08
How can they have any rights, they don't pay tax, take over people land, build without permission, make a mess, cause trouble.....and yet they are protected by the law!!!!!!!!!!
This doesn't make any sense.
How can they have any rights, they don't pay tax, take over people land, build without permission, make a mess, cause trouble.....and yet they are protected by the law!!!!!!!!!!
This doesn't make any sense.
Posted by: ShipShape, Basildonk on 12:05pm Fri 9 May 08
"the law will not tolerate developments without planning permission being obtained"
The law seems pretty tolerant up to now.
Anyway, I've got my eye set on a plot of land, I'll be moving there soon.
If anyone can prove they've got Viking blood, they can move on it with me, we'll have all the back up of the Anti-Discrimination Industry.
Maybe we'll get the lovely James Dasinger to come and set the long boat on fire, before we all go back to the £12000 Long house for some quaffing ale, singing songs about Wodin and looking forwards to a bit of a laugh in Valhalla.
Ridiculous? Only as much as this whole debacle is..
"the law will not tolerate developments without planning permission being obtained"
The law seems pretty tolerant up to now.
Anyway, I've got my eye set on a plot of land, I'll be moving there soon.
If anyone can prove they've got Viking blood, they can move on it with me, we'll have all the back up of the Anti-Discrimination Industry.
Maybe we'll get the lovely James Dasinger to come and set the long boat on fire, before we all go back to the £12000 Long house for some quaffing ale, singing songs about Wodin and looking forwards to a bit of a laugh in Valhalla.
Ridiculous? Only as much as this whole debacle is..
Posted by: Sarah, Billericay on 12:08pm Fri 9 May 08
Although I admit that John Baron is not too bad, I am not convinced that anything will change once the Conservatives are in power. Politicians are all the same, just paying lip service to win votes when they are not in Government.
Although I admit that John Baron is not too bad, I am not convinced that anything will change once the Conservatives are in power. Politicians are all the same, just paying lip service to win votes when they are not in Government.
Posted by: Sharron, Billericay on 12:14pm Fri 9 May 08
Isn't it time the Council stopped wasting money on lawyers and started spending it on its obligations to provide proper sites for travellers?
Isn't it time the Council stopped wasting money on lawyers and started spending it on its obligations to provide proper sites for travellers?
Posted by: Luke, Basildon on 12:15pm Fri 9 May 08
This is a sad day for democracy. A democratically elected Council is told an unaccountable Judge who is out of touch with reality that the Law doesn’t apply to a certain group of individuals.
As for Sarah's comments, In the Labour Party there is an in built bias towards the travellers. In the Conservatives there is an in built bias towards up holding the Law
This is a sad day for democracy. A democratically elected Council is told an unaccountable Judge who is out of touch with reality that the Law doesn’t apply to a certain group of individuals.
As for Sarah's comments, In the Labour Party there is an in built bias towards the travellers. In the Conservatives there is an in built bias towards up holding the Law
Posted by: ron, Basildon on 12:24pm Fri 9 May 08
[quote][bold]Sharron[/bold] wrote:
Isn't it time the Council stopped wasting money on lawyers and started spending it on its obligations to provide proper sites for travellers?[/quote] Why do councils have obligations to travellers? The judge talks about councis having a responsibility to their homeless in their domain (fair enough, to some extent), but the Crays Hill travellers are [italic]intentionally[/italic] "homeless", and despite having disposable income do not pay council tax etc.
The whole issue, regardless of party politics, seems quite straightforward to me. But hey, what do I know...
Sharron wrote:
Isn't it time the Council stopped wasting money on lawyers and started spending it on its obligations to provide proper sites for travellers?
Why do councils have obligations to travellers? The judge talks about councis having a responsibility to their homeless in their domain (fair enough, to some extent), but the Crays Hill travellers are
intentionally "homeless", and despite having disposable income do not pay council tax etc.
The whole issue, regardless of party politics, seems quite straightforward to me. But hey, what do I know...
Posted by: Huh?, Billericay on 12:28pm Fri 9 May 08
[quote][bold]Sharron[/bold] wrote:
Isn't it time the Council stopped wasting money on lawyers and started spending it on its obligations to provide proper sites for travellers?[/quote] Absolutely, and after that we could all chip into building a new housing estate for the Poles.
Sharron wrote:
Isn't it time the Council stopped wasting money on lawyers and started spending it on its obligations to provide proper sites for travellers?
Absolutely, and after that we could all chip into building a new housing estate for the Poles.
Posted by: Luke, Basildon on 12:28pm Fri 9 May 08
[quote][bold]ron[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]Sharron[/bold] wrote: Isn\'t it time the Council stopped wasting money on lawyers and started spending it on its obligations to provide proper sites for travellers?[/quote] Why do councils have obligations to travellers? The judge talks about councis having a responsibility to their homeless in their domain (fair enough, to some extent), but the Crays Hill travellers are [italic]intentionally[/italic] \"homeless\", and despite having disposable income do not pay council tax etc. The whole issue, regardless of party politics, seems quite straightforward to me. But hey, what do I know...[/quote] It is straightforward. The law is the law. shame the Judge does not know this
ron wrote:
Sharron wrote: Isn\'t it time the Council stopped wasting money on lawyers and started spending it on its obligations to provide proper sites for travellers?
Why do councils have obligations to travellers? The judge talks about councis having a responsibility to their homeless in their domain (fair enough, to some extent), but the Crays Hill travellers are intentionally \"homeless\", and despite having disposable income do not pay council tax etc. The whole issue, regardless of party politics, seems quite straightforward to me. But hey, what do I know...
It is straightforward. The law is the law. shame the Judge does not know this
Posted by: lisa, rochford on 12:34pm Fri 9 May 08
They are travellers...so they should MOVE ON and keep travelling!
They are travellers...so they should MOVE ON and keep travelling!
Posted by: Steve, Leigh on 12:37pm Fri 9 May 08
This beggers belief - the lunatics have finally taken over the asylum! What Planet do these pillocks live on?
This beggers belief - the lunatics have finally taken over the asylum! What Planet do these pillocks live on?
Posted by: Sally, Crays Hill on 12:42pm Fri 9 May 08
Calling all law abiding legal settled residents who live in Crays Hill. We need to march again and let the world know what a farce our judicial system is. They have been mugged AGAIN by the so called needs of the travellers. Needs what a joke.
Calling all law abiding legal settled residents who live in Crays Hill. We need to march again and let the world know what a farce our judicial system is. They have been mugged AGAIN by the so called needs of the travellers. Needs what a joke.
Posted by: Andrew, Shoeburyness on 1:10pm Fri 9 May 08
[bold]The government has failed, the county council has failed and that fatuous ar$e of a judge has failed.
Time for civil disobedience, starting with Wickford and Billericay residents withholding their council tax.[/bold]
The government has failed, the county council has failed and that fatuous ar$e of a judge has failed.
Time for civil disobedience, starting with Wickford and Billericay residents withholding their council tax. Posted by: Sherry, At work :( on 1:16pm Fri 9 May 08
How much more time do they need to discuss their needs and welfare?. This has been going on for too long. Has anyone addressed the welfare of the 'legal' residents of Crays Hill, what steps are being taken to compensate them since the value of their homes have all decreased. Personally i think an investigation should be held as to why thousands of pounds are being wasted funding this case when clearly they are in the wrong, whether gypsy or not, you cannot buy green belt land and live on it.
How much more time do they need to discuss their needs and welfare?. This has been going on for too long. Has anyone addressed the welfare of the 'legal' residents of Crays Hill, what steps are being taken to compensate them since the value of their homes have all decreased. Personally i think an investigation should be held as to why thousands of pounds are being wasted funding this case when clearly they are in the wrong, whether gypsy or not, you cannot buy green belt land and live on it.
Posted by: Happy Hammer, Basildon on 1:28pm Fri 9 May 08
[quote][bold]Luke[/bold] wrote:
This is a sad day for democracy. A democratically elected Council is told an unaccountable Judge who is out of touch with reality that the Law doesn’t apply to a certain group of individuals. As for Sarah\'s comments, In the Labour Party there is an in built bias towards the travellers. In the Conservatives there is an in built bias towards up holding the Law[/quote] Not true i'm afraid. Michael Howard MP in the Tory Gvt of 1992, removed the obligation for local councils to provide for travellers. If that had not happened there would be no illegal traveller sites now. The tories started all this.
Luke wrote:
This is a sad day for democracy. A democratically elected Council is told an unaccountable Judge who is out of touch with reality that the Law doesn’t apply to a certain group of individuals. As for Sarah\'s comments, In the Labour Party there is an in built bias towards the travellers. In the Conservatives there is an in built bias towards up holding the Law
Not true i'm afraid. Michael Howard MP in the Tory Gvt of 1992, removed the obligation for local councils to provide for travellers. If that had not happened there would be no illegal traveller sites now. The tories started all this.
Posted by: Sherry, At work :( on 1:30pm Fri 9 May 08
Actually i'm now furious, i'm doing it all wrong, i'm working every hour i can, commuting up to London because a job here wouldn't pay my mortgage. I declare everything i earn, no cash in hand jobs, i pay for everything, full whack. I get no help from anyone, all the courses i went on I HAD TO PAY FOR, no little community centre for me to learn in. I might as well sell up, get a caravan and stick it in some field off the 127, let's see how long i will last before i get chucked off.
Actually i'm now furious, i'm doing it all wrong, i'm working every hour i can, commuting up to London because a job here wouldn't pay my mortgage. I declare everything i earn, no cash in hand jobs, i pay for everything, full whack. I get no help from anyone, all the courses i went on I HAD TO PAY FOR, no little community centre for me to learn in. I might as well sell up, get a caravan and stick it in some field off the 127, let's see how long i will last before i get chucked off.
Posted by: David, Billericay on 2:08pm Fri 9 May 08
Its time we took the law into our own hands!!!!!
Its time we took the law into our own hands!!!!!
Posted by: Margaret Stoll, Rochford on 2:43pm Fri 9 May 08
[quote][bold]ShipShape[/bold] wrote:
<b> \"the law will not tolerate developments without planning permission being obtained\"
The law seems pretty tolerant up to now.
Anyway, I\'ve got my eye set on a plot of land, I\'ll be moving there soon.
If anyone can prove they\'ve got Viking blood, they can move on it with me, we\'ll have all the back up of the Anti-Discrimination Industry.
Maybe we\'ll get the lovely James Dasinger to come and set the long boat on fire, before we all go back to the £12000 Long house for some quaffing ale, singing songs about Wodin and looking forwards to a bit of a laugh in Valhalla.
Ridiculous? Only as much as this whole debacle is..</b>[/quote] Hello ShipShape
Whilst it's pretty difficult to prove Viking blood, it's known that anyone from Yorkshire is likely to have some, because of the long time that Vikings were settled there.
So yes, I think I would be eligible to join you!
Tacitus wrote in 'Germania' that any of the Germanic peoples (Angles, Saxons, Jutes, what became English and Scandinavians) don't like living close to each other. They like a bit of space in between their settlements. Living cheek-by-jowl, one caravan parked next to another, would not suit us.
Me, I'd love a piece of woodland, with a log-cabin among the trees. I'd be able to lie in bed and listen to the dawn chorus.
ShipShape wrote:
<b> \"the law will not tolerate developments without planning permission being obtained\"
The law seems pretty tolerant up to now.
Anyway, I\'ve got my eye set on a plot of land, I\'ll be moving there soon.
If anyone can prove they\'ve got Viking blood, they can move on it with me, we\'ll have all the back up of the Anti-Discrimination Industry.
Maybe we\'ll get the lovely James Dasinger to come and set the long boat on fire, before we all go back to the £12000 Long house for some quaffing ale, singing songs about Wodin and looking forwards to a bit of a laugh in Valhalla.
Ridiculous? Only as much as this whole debacle is..</b>
Hello ShipShape
Whilst it's pretty difficult to prove Viking blood, it's known that anyone from Yorkshire is likely to have some, because of the long time that Vikings were settled there.
So yes, I think I would be eligible to join you!
Tacitus wrote in 'Germania' that any of the Germanic peoples (Angles, Saxons, Jutes, what became English and Scandinavians) don't like living close to each other. They like a bit of space in between their settlements. Living cheek-by-jowl, one caravan parked next to another, would not suit us.
Me, I'd love a piece of woodland, with a log-cabin among the trees. I'd be able to lie in bed and listen to the dawn chorus.
Posted by: Sharon, Work on 2:45pm Fri 9 May 08
I agree with Sherry!!! How long do you think we would last in a field!!!! Maybe all of us that pay our council tax should all stick together & boycott it until they realise just how much we pay & what we don't get in return! Why do the travellers not have to pay council tax. Most of them are living in brick built homes after all!!! And with no planning or building permission!! This law drives me mad!
I agree with Sherry!!! How long do you think we would last in a field!!!! Maybe all of us that pay our council tax should all stick together & boycott it until they realise just how much we pay & what we don't get in return! Why do the travellers not have to pay council tax. Most of them are living in brick built homes after all!!! And with no planning or building permission!! This law drives me mad!
Posted by: piano hinges on 2:48pm Fri 9 May 08
[quote][bold]Margaret Stoll[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]ShipShape[/bold] wrote: <b> \"the law will not tolerate developments without planning permission being obtained\" The law seems pretty tolerant up to now. Anyway, I\'ve got my eye set on a plot of land, I\'ll be moving there soon. If anyone can prove they\'ve got Viking blood, they can move on it with me, we\'ll have all the back up of the Anti-Discrimination Industry. Maybe we\'ll get the lovely James Dasinger to come and set the long boat on fire, before we all go back to the £12000 Long house for some quaffing ale, singing songs about Wodin and looking forwards to a bit of a laugh in Valhalla. Ridiculous? Only as much as this whole debacle is..</b>[/quote] Hello ShipShape Whilst it's pretty difficult to prove Viking blood, it's known that anyone from Yorkshire is likely to have some, because of the long time that Vikings were settled there. So yes, I think I would be eligible to join you! Tacitus wrote in 'Germania' that any of the Germanic peoples (Angles, Saxons, Jutes, what became English and Scandinavians) don't like living close to each other. They like a bit of space in between their settlements. Living cheek-by-jowl, one caravan parked next to another, would not suit us. Me, I'd love a piece of woodland, with a log-cabin among the trees. I'd be able to lie in bed and listen to the dawn chorus.[/quote] My Yorkshire family goes back to the Vikings, and my Scottish family goes back to Iceland.
So count me in too.
Skol!
Margaret Stoll wrote:
ShipShape wrote: <b> \"the law will not tolerate developments without planning permission being obtained\" The law seems pretty tolerant up to now. Anyway, I\'ve got my eye set on a plot of land, I\'ll be moving there soon. If anyone can prove they\'ve got Viking blood, they can move on it with me, we\'ll have all the back up of the Anti-Discrimination Industry. Maybe we\'ll get the lovely James Dasinger to come and set the long boat on fire, before we all go back to the £12000 Long house for some quaffing ale, singing songs about Wodin and looking forwards to a bit of a laugh in Valhalla. Ridiculous? Only as much as this whole debacle is..</b>
Hello ShipShape Whilst it's pretty difficult to prove Viking blood, it's known that anyone from Yorkshire is likely to have some, because of the long time that Vikings were settled there. So yes, I think I would be eligible to join you! Tacitus wrote in 'Germania' that any of the Germanic peoples (Angles, Saxons, Jutes, what became English and Scandinavians) don't like living close to each other. They like a bit of space in between their settlements. Living cheek-by-jowl, one caravan parked next to another, would not suit us. Me, I'd love a piece of woodland, with a log-cabin among the trees. I'd be able to lie in bed and listen to the dawn chorus.
My Yorkshire family goes back to the Vikings, and my Scottish family goes back to Iceland.
So count me in too.
Skol!
Posted by: Hovefields resident, wickford on 2:59pm Fri 9 May 08
We have been totally let down by this government. I don't know which cloud this judge has been sitting on for the past 6 years but he should be knocked off his perch and told to live in the real world. We have suffered so much down here I just want to sit down and cry buckets but no I have to pick myself up and fight again. Our human rights are non existent, why will no-one listen to us, why is this allowed to happen to us. We have no faith in our judicial system whatsoever. Please, please can someone help us because we are at a loss as to what to do. Most of the comments are realistic and supportive and I thank you for these.
We have been totally let down by this government. I don't know which cloud this judge has been sitting on for the past 6 years but he should be knocked off his perch and told to live in the real world. We have suffered so much down here I just want to sit down and cry buckets but no I have to pick myself up and fight again. Our human rights are non existent, why will no-one listen to us, why is this allowed to happen to us. We have no faith in our judicial system whatsoever. Please, please can someone help us because we are at a loss as to what to do. Most of the comments are realistic and supportive and I thank you for these.
Posted by: mike b, Billericay on 3:05pm Fri 9 May 08
People in Crays Hill and Hovefields might find the final 3 paragraphs of today's judgement of some encouragement:
" 65. There can be no doubt that the claimants cannot remain where they are and that the time must come when they will have to leave, whether voluntarily or by means of forcible eviction. Despite the difficulties they face and the absence at present of sufficient sites to meet their needs, Travellers and Gypsies must appreciate that the law will not tolerate developments without planning permission being obtained, particularly on Green Belt land, and will be likely to uphold enforcement action where the individual circumstances of those affected have been properly considered against the harm to the environment and to relations with the community. Nevertheless, it is necessary for all relevant matters to be properly taken into account and it is impossible not to have some sympathy with the problems created for Gypsies and Travellers by the lack of sufficient sites to cater for their proper needs.
66. I have no doubt that a decision to enforce under s.178 is likely to be unassailable in respect of most and perhaps all of the claimants in due course. But there are concerns which I have already spelt out. It seems to me that the approach to need has been too restrictive and that, following in particular the EERA report (albeit not accepted by the Council), further consideration should be given to whether any sites can be found in the district and whether any families can be allowed to remain for the time being. In addition, I do not think the possible effects of the homelessness duty have been sufficiently dealt with in the advice given to the committee. Finally, I think that the approach has been that the sites should be cleared rather than a consideration of whether there are any individual families whose circumstances are such, whether because of serious ill-health or the needs of their children, that in their individual cases eviction would be disproportionate. I am not to be taken as saying that there necessarily are any such, but I think that possibility should have been drawn to the committee’s attention.
67. I am conscious that this decision may mean no more than that a little more time is given to the claimants and the Council may feel that yet further delay is to be deprecated. Nonetheless, the decision, whichever way it goes, must be based on consideration of all that is relevant. But in the circumstances for the reasons I have given I am persuaded that the decisions of 13 December 2007 cannot stand.
The full text is at
http://www.dgllaw.co
.uk/files/DaleFarmJu
dgment090508.doc
People in Crays Hill and Hovefields might find the final 3 paragraphs of today's judgement of some encouragement:
" 65. There can be no doubt that the claimants cannot remain where they are and that the time must come when they will have to leave, whether voluntarily or by means of forcible eviction. Despite the difficulties they face and the absence at present of sufficient sites to meet their needs, Travellers and Gypsies must appreciate that the law will not tolerate developments without planning permission being obtained, particularly on Green Belt land, and will be likely to uphold enforcement action where the individual circumstances of those affected have been properly considered against the harm to the environment and to relations with the community. Nevertheless, it is necessary for all relevant matters to be properly taken into account and it is impossible not to have some sympathy with the problems created for Gypsies and Travellers by the lack of sufficient sites to cater for their proper needs.
66. I have no doubt that a decision to enforce under s.178 is likely to be unassailable in respect of most and perhaps all of the claimants in due course. But there are concerns which I have already spelt out. It seems to me that the approach to need has been too restrictive and that, following in particular the EERA report (albeit not accepted by the Council), further consideration should be given to whether any sites can be found in the district and whether any families can be allowed to remain for the time being. In addition, I do not think the possible effects of the homelessness duty have been sufficiently dealt with in the advice given to the committee. Finally, I think that the approach has been that the sites should be cleared rather than a consideration of whether there are any individual families whose circumstances are such, whether because of serious ill-health or the needs of their children, that in their individual cases eviction would be disproportionate. I am not to be taken as saying that there necessarily are any such, but I think that possibility should have been drawn to the committee’s attention.
67. I am conscious that this decision may mean no more than that a little more time is given to the claimants and the Council may feel that yet further delay is to be deprecated. Nonetheless, the decision, whichever way it goes, must be based on consideration of all that is relevant. But in the circumstances for the reasons I have given I am persuaded that the decisions of 13 December 2007 cannot stand.
The full text is at
http://www.dgllaw.co
.uk/files/DaleFarmJu
dgment090508.doc
Posted by: evilc, essex on 3:10pm Fri 9 May 08
[quote][bold]Nigel[/bold] wrote:
This shows how politicised the judiciary has become. The left wing is so totally established within the fabric of society that it will take the incoming Conservative government a long time to root it out. Only then can we begin to move forward.[/quote] Nigel
You are 100% correct there is even one Judge a former Communist party member!!
Nigel wrote:
This shows how politicised the judiciary has become. The left wing is so totally established within the fabric of society that it will take the incoming Conservative government a long time to root it out. Only then can we begin to move forward.
Nigel
You are 100% correct there is even one Judge a former Communist party member!!
Posted by: peter, billericay on 3:12pm Fri 9 May 08
Dear Hovefield resident take heart as it says in the article The judge said there could be no doubt that the families could not remain where they were and the time must come when they would have to leave, "whether voluntarily or by means of forcible eviction." And Basildon Council have just said "the Judge’s observation that action cannot be taken before the start of the school holidays and we look forward now to a final resolution of this complex issue.”
How Sheridan thinks he has won is gross stupidity, no suprise there then
Dear Hovefield resident take heart as it says in the article The judge said there could be no doubt that the families could not remain where they were and the time must come when they would have to leave, "whether voluntarily or by means of forcible eviction." And Basildon Council have just said "the Judge’s observation that action cannot be taken before the start of the school holidays and we look forward now to a final resolution of this complex issue.”
How Sheridan thinks he has won is gross stupidity, no suprise there then
Posted by: evilc, essex on 3:14pm Fri 9 May 08
[quote][bold]Bitta[/bold] wrote:
Nigel, if you think it'll will be any different if/when the conservatives are in power then you are sadly mistaken. Nothing will change, we are the dumping ground and laughing stock of Europe.[/quote] You are correct BUT without hope of getting rid of the lonney left wing elite this country will collapse.
Bitta wrote:
Nigel, if you think it'll will be any different if/when the conservatives are in power then you are sadly mistaken. Nothing will change, we are the dumping ground and laughing stock of Europe.
You are correct BUT without hope of getting rid of the lonney left wing elite this country will collapse.
Posted by: wayne, florida usa on 3:22pm Fri 9 May 08
this is a kick in the teeth for all law abiding residents . mob rule wins[bold]bold[/bold]
this is a kick in the teeth for all law abiding residents . mob rule wins
Posted by: ron, basildon on 3:24pm Fri 9 May 08
Tempting as it might be, you can't blame Labour for absolutely everything here.
This was a judgement delivered by a judge, not a politician. As for Basildon Council, that is not Labour either.
Please let's not descend into party politics here; the traveller situation goes deeper than that. I think the more rabid right-wingers who pop up on the Echo would be (no doubt grudgingly) surprised to know how many "lefties" are in agreement with the basic sentiment on issues like this.
Tempting as it might be, you can't blame Labour for absolutely everything here.
This was a judgement delivered by a judge, not a politician. As for Basildon Council, that is not Labour either.
Please let's not descend into party politics here; the traveller situation goes deeper than that. I think the more rabid right-wingers who pop up on the Echo would be (no doubt grudgingly) surprised to know how many "lefties" are in agreement with the basic sentiment on issues like this.
Posted by: rochford resident on 3:26pm Fri 9 May 08
[quote][bold]Margaret Stoll[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]ShipShape[/bold] wrote: <b> \"the law will not tolerate developments without planning permission being obtained\" The law seems pretty tolerant up to now. Anyway, I\'ve got my eye set on a plot of land, I\'ll be moving there soon. If anyone can prove they\'ve got Viking blood, they can move on it with me, we\'ll have all the back up of the Anti-Discrimination Industry. Maybe we\'ll get the lovely James Dasinger to come and set the long boat on fire, before we all go back to the £12000 Long house for some quaffing ale, singing songs about Wodin and looking forwards to a bit of a laugh in Valhalla. Ridiculous? Only as much as this whole debacle is..</b>[/quote] Hello ShipShape Whilst it's pretty difficult to prove Viking blood, it's known that anyone from Yorkshire is likely to have some, because of the long time that Vikings were settled there. So yes, I think I would be eligible to join you! Tacitus wrote in 'Germania' that any of the Germanic peoples (Angles, Saxons, Jutes, what became English and Scandinavians) don't like living close to each other. They like a bit of space in between their settlements. Living cheek-by-jowl, one caravan parked next to another, would not suit us. Me, I'd love a piece of woodland, with a log-cabin among the trees. I'd be able to lie in bed and listen to the dawn chorus.[/quote] But wouldn't the building of a log cabin in woodland be a desecration of greenbelt land?
Is that the kind of example you would set? You are empowering these do-as-you-likeys. You really should think before you talk Margaret! I have seen this silly rambling of yours on other threads too. Can't you understand that this is serious, it is not about you, you, you.
We have got to stand together and be consistent, whose side are you?
Margaret Stoll wrote:
ShipShape wrote: <b> \"the law will not tolerate developments without planning permission being obtained\" The law seems pretty tolerant up to now. Anyway, I\'ve got my eye set on a plot of land, I\'ll be moving there soon. If anyone can prove they\'ve got Viking blood, they can move on it with me, we\'ll have all the back up of the Anti-Discrimination Industry. Maybe we\'ll get the lovely James Dasinger to come and set the long boat on fire, before we all go back to the £12000 Long house for some quaffing ale, singing songs about Wodin and looking forwards to a bit of a laugh in Valhalla. Ridiculous? Only as much as this whole debacle is..</b>
Hello ShipShape Whilst it's pretty difficult to prove Viking blood, it's known that anyone from Yorkshire is likely to have some, because of the long time that Vikings were settled there. So yes, I think I would be eligible to join you! Tacitus wrote in 'Germania' that any of the Germanic peoples (Angles, Saxons, Jutes, what became English and Scandinavians) don't like living close to each other. They like a bit of space in between their settlements. Living cheek-by-jowl, one caravan parked next to another, would not suit us. Me, I'd love a piece of woodland, with a log-cabin among the trees. I'd be able to lie in bed and listen to the dawn chorus.
But wouldn't the building of a log cabin in woodland be a desecration of greenbelt land?
Is that the kind of example you would set? You are empowering these do-as-you-likeys. You really should think before you talk Margaret! I have seen this silly rambling of yours on other threads too. Can't you understand that this is serious, it is not about you, you, you.
We have got to stand together and be consistent, whose side are you?
Posted by: Margaret Stoll, Rochford on 3:49pm Fri 9 May 08
Oh dear! You took it seriously, didn't you!
I was responding to ShipShape, and piano hinges has come in with a similar comment too.
So you think it's 'silly ramblings'. I wrote this about a log cabin in a piece of woodland because IT WOULD NOT BE ALLOWED TO HAPPEN! I have no equal-rights experts and equality lawyers to jump in on my side, so I would be in exactly the same position as the poor man on the pig farm, who died of hypothermia after being evicted and forced to sleep in his car. The difference would be, a native-born Englishwoman would be seen to have less rights than the travelling 'community'.
I see that Mr Fewings is now threatening to turn his scrap-yard at Canewdon into another Dale Farm. He says he's willing to sell his land to travellers, if he's not allowed to keep his scrapyard there. It would be nice to think that money could be raised to buy that land to make it into a wildlife reserve, to prevent that happening.
Oh dear! You took it seriously, didn't you!
I was responding to ShipShape, and piano hinges has come in with a similar comment too.
So you think it's 'silly ramblings'. I wrote this about a log cabin in a piece of woodland because IT WOULD NOT BE ALLOWED TO HAPPEN! I have no equal-rights experts and equality lawyers to jump in on my side, so I would be in exactly the same position as the poor man on the pig farm, who died of hypothermia after being evicted and forced to sleep in his car. The difference would be, a native-born Englishwoman would be seen to have less rights than the travelling 'community'.
I see that Mr Fewings is now threatening to turn his scrap-yard at Canewdon into another Dale Farm. He says he's willing to sell his land to travellers, if he's not allowed to keep his scrapyard there. It would be nice to think that money could be raised to buy that land to make it into a wildlife reserve, to prevent that happening.
Posted by: undertaker, crays hill on 3:58pm Fri 9 May 08
[quote][bold]Sherry[/bold] wrote:
Actually i'm now furious, i'm doing it all wrong, i'm working every hour i can, commuting up to London because a job here wouldn't pay my mortgage. I declare everything i earn, no cash in hand jobs, i pay for everything, full whack. I get no help from anyone, all the courses i went on I HAD TO PAY FOR, no little community centre for me to learn in. I might as well sell up, get a caravan and stick it in some field off the 127, let's see how long i will last before i get chucked off.[/quote] Love it when your furious, i have a field to berth your caravan in and i can watch you doing your washing.:)
Sherry wrote:
Actually i'm now furious, i'm doing it all wrong, i'm working every hour i can, commuting up to London because a job here wouldn't pay my mortgage. I declare everything i earn, no cash in hand jobs, i pay for everything, full whack. I get no help from anyone, all the courses i went on I HAD TO PAY FOR, no little community centre for me to learn in. I might as well sell up, get a caravan and stick it in some field off the 127, let's see how long i will last before i get chucked off.
Love it when your furious, i have a field to berth your caravan in and i can watch you doing your washing.:)
Posted by: Margaret Stoll, Rochford on 4:04pm Fri 9 May 08
Be careful. You'll be told it's 'silly ramblings' and it's not about you, you, you.
Be careful. You'll be told it's 'silly ramblings' and it's not about you, you, you.
Posted by: mo, basildon on 4:13pm Fri 9 May 08
[italic]Richard Sheridan says "As British citizens we are entitled to live like everybody else".[/italic] So Mr. Sheridan, please abide by the same rules and regulations like the rest of us then!
Richard Sheridan says "As British citizens we are entitled to live like everybody else". So Mr. Sheridan, please abide by the same rules and regulations like the rest of us then!
Posted by: Partyboy, Saarfend on 4:29pm Fri 9 May 08
[quote][bold]Sharon[/bold] wrote:
I agree with Sherry!!! How long do you think we would last in a field!!!! Maybe all of us that pay our council tax should all stick together & boycott it until they realise just how much we pay & what we don\'t get in return! Why do the travellers not have to pay council tax. Most of them are living in brick built homes after all!!! And with no planning or building permission!! This law drives me mad![/quote] Yeah!!! Everytime me n my homies rock up to a disused barn for a rave the ol' bill waste no time in kicking us off! Maybe if we took some caravans and Dags they would steer clear...?
Sharon wrote:
I agree with Sherry!!! How long do you think we would last in a field!!!! Maybe all of us that pay our council tax should all stick together & boycott it until they realise just how much we pay & what we don\'t get in return! Why do the travellers not have to pay council tax. Most of them are living in brick built homes after all!!! And with no planning or building permission!! This law drives me mad!
Yeah!!! Everytime me n my homies rock up to a disused barn for a rave the ol' bill waste no time in kicking us off! Maybe if we took some caravans and Dags they would steer clear...?
Posted by: wellblowme, Anywhere but here on 4:38pm Fri 9 May 08
There doesn't seem to have been much comment from the judge or otherwise about how these so called '[italic]Travellers[/italic]' have contributed to the local community. In fact it's far from that with anti social behaviour, rubbish fly tipping, intimidation, sofa's, noise, forcing local children from their school as they dragged the education standards to an all time low. Not to mention the unlawfulness of the plots and the very ground they stand on.
I've been at the sharp end of these people, and if you or anyone think they are decent and their kids need the benefits we expect for our own then think again.
If an eviction ever does come about then watch the women take a back seat (as the men aren't interestd at the moment) and the men will show their true colours.
There will be bloodshed, mark my words... I know, I've been on the receiving end and you would not want to wish that on your worst enemy!
There doesn't seem to have been much comment from the judge or otherwise about how these so called '
Travellers' have contributed to the local community. In fact it's far from that with anti social behaviour, rubbish fly tipping, intimidation, sofa's, noise, forcing local children from their school as they dragged the education standards to an all time low. Not to mention the unlawfulness of the plots and the very ground they stand on.
I've been at the sharp end of these people, and if you or anyone think they are decent and their kids need the benefits we expect for our own then think again.
If an eviction ever does come about then watch the women take a back seat (as the men aren't interestd at the moment) and the men will show their true colours.
There will be bloodshed, mark my words... I know, I've been on the receiving end and you would not want to wish that on your worst enemy!
Posted by: seeview, Southend on Sea on 4:41pm Fri 9 May 08
[bold]Perhaps the answer lays in the judiciary and police chiefs standing for election I think this would then influence their decision making.[/bold]
Perhaps the answer lays in the judiciary and police chiefs standing for election I think this would then influence their decision making. Posted by: rochford resident on 4:44pm Fri 9 May 08
[quote][bold]Partyboy[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]Sharon[/bold] wrote: I agree with Sherry!!! How long do you think we would last in a field!!!! Maybe all of us that pay our council tax should all stick together & boycott it until they realise just how much we pay & what we don\\\'t get in return! Why do the travellers not have to pay council tax. Most of them are living in brick built homes after all!!! And with no planning or building permission!! This law drives me mad![/quote] Yeah!!! Everytime me n my homies rock up to a disused barn for a rave the ol\' bill waste no time in kicking us off! Maybe if we took some caravans and Dags they would steer clear...? [/quote] you never said a truer word. This is why I joined the English Democrats. It represents people like you and me, the true English. Join up - you could make a difference!
Partyboy wrote:
Sharon wrote: I agree with Sherry!!! How long do you think we would last in a field!!!! Maybe all of us that pay our council tax should all stick together & boycott it until they realise just how much we pay & what we don't get in return! Why do the travellers not have to pay council tax. Most of them are living in brick built homes after all!!! And with no planning or building permission!! This law drives me mad!
Yeah!!! Everytime me n my homies rock up to a disused barn for a rave the ol\' bill waste no time in kicking us off! Maybe if we took some caravans and Dags they would steer clear...?
you never said a truer word. This is why I joined the English Democrats. It represents people like you and me, the true English. Join up - you could make a difference!
Posted by: Partyboy, Saarfend on 4:45pm Fri 9 May 08
Maybe the 'people' should take matters into their own hands? Tell them there is free Guiness over at Bas Vegas and while they are away move them ourselves??? :) Im sure hundreds would turn up to help!
Maybe the 'people' should take matters into their own hands? Tell them there is free Guiness over at Bas Vegas and while they are away move them ourselves??? :) Im sure hundreds would turn up to help!
Posted by: Partyboy, Saarfend on 4:53pm Fri 9 May 08
[quote][bold]rochford resident[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]Partyboy[/bold] wrote: [quote][bold]Sharon[/bold] wrote: I agree with Sherry!!! How long do you think we would last in a field!!!! Maybe all of us that pay our council tax should all stick together & boycott it until they realise just how much we pay & what we don\\\'t get in return! Why do the travellers not have to pay council tax. Most of them are living in brick built homes after all!!! And with no planning or building permission!! This law drives me mad![/quote] Yeah!!! Everytime me n my homies rock up to a disused barn for a rave the ol\' bill waste no time in kicking us off! Maybe if we took some caravans and Dags they would steer clear...? [/quote] you never said a truer word. This is why I joined the English Democrats. It represents people like you and me, the true English. Join up - you could make a difference![/quote] Ok.... thanks for that! :-/
rochford resident wrote:
Partyboy wrote: Sharon wrote: I agree with Sherry!!! How long do you think we would last in a field!!!! Maybe all of us that pay our council tax should all stick together & boycott it until they realise just how much we pay & what we don't get in return! Why do the travellers not have to pay council tax. Most of them are living in brick built homes after all!!! And with no planning or building permission!! This law drives me mad!
Yeah!!! Everytime me n my homies rock up to a disused barn for a rave the ol\' bill waste no time in kicking us off! Maybe if we took some caravans and Dags they would steer clear...?
you never said a truer word. This is why I joined the English Democrats. It represents people like you and me, the true English. Join up - you could make a difference!
Ok.... thanks for that! :-/
Posted by: martin, basildon on 4:54pm Fri 9 May 08
peraps the travellers can have a party to celebrate the judges decision in there new community centre built without planning permission.
what a joke.I THINK I WILL STOP PAYING MY COUNCIL TAX AND SEE HOW FAR I WILL GET BEFORE I'M CALLED BEFORE THE JUDGE.
peraps the travellers can have a party to celebrate the judges decision in there new community centre built without planning permission.
what a joke.I THINK I WILL STOP PAYING MY COUNCIL TAX AND SEE HOW FAR I WILL GET BEFORE I'M CALLED BEFORE THE JUDGE.
Posted by: wellblowme, Anywhere but here on 4:54pm Fri 9 May 08
[quote][bold]Partyboy[/bold] wrote:
Maybe the \'people\' should take matters into their own hands? Tell them there is free Guiness over at Bas Vegas and while they are away move them ourselves??? :) Im sure hundreds would turn up to help![/quote] Do you have any firearms? or Dags?
Partyboy wrote:
Maybe the \'people\' should take matters into their own hands? Tell them there is free Guiness over at Bas Vegas and while they are away move them ourselves??? :) Im sure hundreds would turn up to help!
Do you have any firearms? or Dags?
Posted by: xxx on 4:57pm Fri 9 May 08
Hopefully this will help. His Lordship was not considering their right to be there but the administrative way in which the consideration to evict was exercised. This is an administrative law case. In such cases a solicitor or barrister looks for proof that a council has not considered all facts, and how they relate to individual legal requirements the council has to consider, and weighed them up when they made their decision. It was found that they had not considered two or three facts or not given such facts due consideration.
This is a very flimsy and thin sheet of ice for the Traveller to base a legal victory on.
What happens now in such a case? Answer = The Council re-considers the eviction circumstances and its legal responsibilities, taking into account only those facts His Lordship mentioned (or other relevent facts the Travellers can come up with - such as Auntie Marie can't walk), and come to a further decision. This decision is usually the same as the original decision, and using the right legal advice there should not be any further reasons for appeal of the Council's administrative decision.
What does this mean?
More cost = yes
More time = yes
End result = Eviction
Why did the Travellers do appeal?
To delay eviction.
Why should the law allow it?
Becuase it tests the law for all those who live in publicly supported housing, such as the old and infirm, and those who suddenly find they have no income, and the way in which they can be evicted. It would also be considered if you were to appeal your own bank's attempt to evict you!
In the end they will be forced to go.
Hopefully this will help. His Lordship was not considering their right to be there but the administrative way in which the consideration to evict was exercised. This is an administrative law case. In such cases a solicitor or barrister looks for proof that a council has not considered all facts, and how they relate to individual legal requirements the council has to consider, and weighed them up when they made their decision. It was found that they had not considered two or three facts or not given such facts due consideration.
This is a very flimsy and thin sheet of ice for the Traveller to base a legal victory on.
What happens now in such a case? Answer = The Council re-considers the eviction circumstances and its legal responsibilities, taking into account only those facts His Lordship mentioned (or other relevent facts the Travellers can come up with - such as Auntie Marie can't walk), and come to a further decision. This decision is usually the same as the original decision, and using the right legal advice there should not be any further reasons for appeal of the Council's administrative decision.
What does this mean?
More cost = yes
More time = yes
End result = Eviction
Why did the Travellers do appeal?
To delay eviction.
Why should the law allow it?
Becuase it tests the law for all those who live in publicly supported housing, such as the old and infirm, and those who suddenly find they have no income, and the way in which they can be evicted. It would also be considered if you were to appeal your own bank's attempt to evict you!
In the end they will be forced to go.
Posted by: Partyboy, Saarfend on 5:01pm Fri 9 May 08
[quote][bold]wellblowme[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]Partyboy[/bold] wrote: Maybe the \'people\' should take matters into their own hands? Tell them there is free Guiness over at Bas Vegas and while they are away move them ourselves??? :) Im sure hundreds would turn up to help![/quote] Do you have any firearms? or Dags?[/quote] Just take a couple of cans of fabreeze down there... That'll scare the sh*t outta them!
wellblowme wrote:
Partyboy wrote: Maybe the \'people\' should take matters into their own hands? Tell them there is free Guiness over at Bas Vegas and while they are away move them ourselves??? :) Im sure hundreds would turn up to help!
Do you have any firearms? or Dags?
Just take a couple of cans of fabreeze down there... That'll scare the sh*t outta them!
Posted by: Local Boy, Hawkwell on 5:01pm Fri 9 May 08
[quote][bold]Margaret Stoll[/bold] wrote:
<b>[quote][bold]ShipShape[/bold] wrote:
<b> \"the law will not tolerate developments without planning permission being obtained\"
The law seems pretty tolerant up to now.
Anyway, I\'ve got my eye set on a plot of land, I\'ll be moving there soon.
If anyone can prove they\'ve got Viking blood, they can move on it with me, we\'ll have all the back up of the Anti-Discrimination Industry.
Maybe we\'ll get the lovely James Dasinger to come and set the long boat on fire, before we all go back to the £12000 Long house for some quaffing ale, singing songs about Wodin and looking forwards to a bit of a laugh in Valhalla.
Ridiculous? Only as much as this whole debacle is..</b>[/quote] Hello ShipShape
Whilst it's pretty difficult to prove Viking blood, it's known that anyone from Yorkshire is likely to have some, because of the long time that Vikings were settled there.
So yes, I think I would be eligible to join you!
Tacitus wrote in 'Germania' that any of the Germanic peoples (Angles, Saxons, Jutes, what became English and Scandinavians) don't like living close to each other. They like a bit of space in between their settlements. Living cheek-by-jowl, one caravan parked next to another, would not suit us.
Me, I'd love a piece of woodland, with a log-cabin among the trees. I'd be able to lie in bed and listen to the dawn chorus.</b>[/quote] S**t! What do I do, my ancestry is Viking, Angle and Norman, does the Norman bit exclude me from joining you?
Or will I be all right as County Durham is further North than those Yorkshire southern bumpkins?
Margaret Stoll wrote:
<b>ShipShape wrote:
<b> \"the law will not tolerate developments without planning permission being obtained\"
The law seems pretty tolerant up to now.
Anyway, I\'ve got my eye set on a plot of land, I\'ll be moving there soon.
If anyone can prove they\'ve got Viking blood, they can move on it with me, we\'ll have all the back up of the Anti-Discrimination Industry.
Maybe we\'ll get the lovely James Dasinger to come and set the long boat on fire, before we all go back to the £12000 Long house for some quaffing ale, singing songs about Wodin and looking forwards to a bit of a laugh in Valhalla.
Ridiculous? Only as much as this whole debacle is..</b>
Hello ShipShape
Whilst it's pretty difficult to prove Viking blood, it's known that anyone from Yorkshire is likely to have some, because of the long time that Vikings were settled there.
So yes, I think I would be eligible to join you!
Tacitus wrote in 'Germania' that any of the Germanic peoples (Angles, Saxons, Jutes, what became English and Scandinavians) don't like living close to each other. They like a bit of space in between their settlements. Living cheek-by-jowl, one caravan parked next to another, would not suit us.
Me, I'd love a piece of woodland, with a log-cabin among the trees. I'd be able to lie in bed and listen to the dawn chorus.</b>
S**t! What do I do, my ancestry is Viking, Angle and Norman, does the Norman bit exclude me from joining you?
Or will I be all right as County Durham is further North than those Yorkshire southern bumpkins?
Posted by: wellblowme, Anywhere but here on 5:02pm Fri 9 May 08
Hmmmm no replies from Dale farm.... perhaps they've already sold the laptops to buy more sofa's!
Hmmmm no replies from Dale farm.... perhaps they've already sold the laptops to buy more sofa's!
Posted by: mike b, Billericay on 5:02pm Fri 9 May 08
[quote][bold]ron[/bold] wrote:
Tempting as it might be, you can't blame Labour for absolutely everything here. This was a judgement delivered by a judge, not a politician. As for Basildon Council, that is not Labour either. Please let's not descend into party politics here; the traveller situation goes deeper than that. I think the more rabid right-wingers who pop up on the Echo would be (no doubt grudgingly) surprised to know how many "lefties" are in agreement with the basic sentiment on issues like this. [/quote] I agree.
Two Labour Secretaries of State on appeal,have upheld Basildon Council's refusal to give planning consent.
Other politicians have not served us well though - the Conservatives in 1994 in withdrawing the previous financial incentives for councils to provide sites and Labour in 2003 when John Prescott granted some of those on authorised sites at Dale Farm a a 2 year period to remain.
ron wrote:
Tempting as it might be, you can't blame Labour for absolutely everything here. This was a judgement delivered by a judge, not a politician. As for Basildon Council, that is not Labour either. Please let's not descend into party politics here; the traveller situation goes deeper than that. I think the more rabid right-wingers who pop up on the Echo would be (no doubt grudgingly) surprised to know how many "lefties" are in agreement with the basic sentiment on issues like this.
I agree.
Two Labour Secretaries of State on appeal,have upheld Basildon Council's refusal to give planning consent.
Other politicians have not served us well though - the Conservatives in 1994 in withdrawing the previous financial incentives for councils to provide sites and Labour in 2003 when John Prescott granted some of those on authorised sites at Dale Farm a a 2 year period to remain.
Posted by: ShipShape, Basildonk on 5:03pm Fri 9 May 08
Rochford Resident, Margaret was having a bit of light hearted chat, nothing more.
The fact that she does have a little chuckle now and again speaks volumes about the lady, she comes across as a human and thats why shes well liked.
Now, who can get hold of some Horned helmets and some Valkyrie costumes?
Rochford Resident, Margaret was having a bit of light hearted chat, nothing more.
The fact that she does have a little chuckle now and again speaks volumes about the lady, she comes across as a human and thats why shes well liked.
Now, who can get hold of some Horned helmets and some Valkyrie costumes?
Posted by: wellblowme, Anywhere but here on 5:05pm Fri 9 May 08
[quote][bold]Partyboy[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]wellblowme[/bold] wrote: [quote][bold]Partyboy[/bold] wrote: Maybe the \'people\' should take matters into their own hands? Tell them there is free Guiness over at Bas Vegas and while they are away move them ourselves??? :) Im sure hundreds would turn up to help![/quote] Do you have any firearms? or Dags?[/quote] Just take a couple of cans of fabreeze down there... That'll scare the sh*t outta them![/quote] I Like it :)
Partyboy wrote:
wellblowme wrote: Partyboy wrote: Maybe the \'people\' should take matters into their own hands? Tell them there is free Guiness over at Bas Vegas and while they are away move them ourselves??? :) Im sure hundreds would turn up to help!
Do you have any firearms? or Dags?
Just take a couple of cans of fabreeze down there... That'll scare the sh*t outta them!
I Like it :)
Posted by: ShipShape, Basildonk on 5:07pm Fri 9 May 08
[quote][bold]Local Boy[/bold] wrote:
<b>[quote][bold]Margaret Stoll[/bold] wrote:
<b>[quote][bold]ShipShape[/bold] wrote:
&lt;b&gt; \"the law will not tolerate developments without planning permission being obtained\"
The law seems pretty tolerant up to now.
Anyway, I\'ve got my eye set on a plot of land, I\'ll be moving there soon.
If anyone can prove they\'ve got Viking blood, they can move on it with me, we\'ll have all the back up of the Anti-Discrimination Industry.
Maybe we\'ll get the lovely James Dasinger to come and set the long boat on fire, before we all go back to the £12000 Long house for some quaffing ale, singing songs about Wodin and looking forwards to a bit of a laugh in Valhalla.
Ridiculous? Only as much as this whole debacle is..&lt;/b&gt;[/quote] Hello ShipShape
Whilst it's pretty difficult to prove Viking blood, it's known that anyone from Yorkshire is likely to have some, because of the long time that Vikings were settled there.
So yes, I think I would be eligible to join you!
Tacitus wrote in 'Germania' that any of the Germanic peoples (Angles, Saxons, Jutes, what became English and Scandinavians) don't like living close to each other. They like a bit of space in between their settlements. Living cheek-by-jowl, one caravan parked next to another, would not suit us.
Me, I'd love a piece of woodland, with a log-cabin among the trees. I'd be able to lie in bed and listen to the dawn chorus.</b>[/quote] S**t! What do I do, my ancestry is Viking, Angle and Norman, does the Norman bit exclude me from joining you?
Or will I be all right as County Durham is further North than those Yorkshire southern bumpkins?</b>[/quote] Let me see, as the Normans were in allegiance with the Vikings, I think we can get you in.
Besides, you might get us a booze discount at Calais..that long house'll need stocking.
Local Boy wrote:
<b>Margaret Stoll wrote:
<b>ShipShape wrote:
&lt;b&gt; \"the law will not tolerate developments without planning permission being obtained\"
The law seems pretty tolerant up to now.
Anyway, I\'ve got my eye set on a plot of land, I\'ll be moving there soon.
If anyone can prove they\'ve got Viking blood, they can move on it with me, we\'ll have all the back up of the Anti-Discrimination Industry.
Maybe we\'ll get the lovely James Dasinger to come and set the long boat on fire, before we all go back to the £12000 Long house for some quaffing ale, singing songs about Wodin and looking forwards to a bit of a laugh in Valhalla.
Ridiculous? Only as much as this whole debacle is..&lt;/b&gt;
Hello ShipShape
Whilst it's pretty difficult to prove Viking blood, it's known that anyone from Yorkshire is likely to have some, because of the long time that Vikings were settled there.
So yes, I think I would be eligible to join you!
Tacitus wrote in 'Germania' that any of the Germanic peoples (Angles, Saxons, Jutes, what became English and Scandinavians) don't like living close to each other. They like a bit of space in between their settlements. Living cheek-by-jowl, one caravan parked next to another, would not suit us.
Me, I'd love a piece of woodland, with a log-cabin among the trees. I'd be able to lie in bed and listen to the dawn chorus.</b>
S**t! What do I do, my ancestry is Viking, Angle and Norman, does the Norman bit exclude me from joining you?
Or will I be all right as County Durham is further North than those Yorkshire southern bumpkins?</b>
Let me see, as the Normans were in allegiance with the Vikings, I think we can get you in.
Besides, you might get us a booze discount at Calais..that long house'll need stocking.
Posted by: Margaret Stoll, Rochford on 5:07pm Fri 9 May 08
Thanks for that, ShipShape. I was responding to your comment, and I agree, the whole debacle has become ridiculous.
Having said that, xxx's post is very relevant and puts the whole matter into context.
Thanks for that, ShipShape. I was responding to your comment, and I agree, the whole debacle has become ridiculous.
Having said that, xxx's post is very relevant and puts the whole matter into context.
Posted by: Lisa Jensen, Celebrating in the Shep&Dog on 5:09pm Fri 9 May 08
Well, I have to say I did expect this outpouring of hatred when I heard this on the news today.
What is the problem? Many settled people break the law every day, parking somewhere they shouldn't, claiming something on the tax bill and many other ways. Face it, these people don't want to travel anymore, they want a more settled way of life and they like everyone else are entitled to that.
Now, I shall just sit here and wait for the outpouring of hatred against me and before anyone says it, I am not condoning the illegal aspects that they may have in the lifestyle they lead, I am merely sticking up for the fact that they are human and as such have rights and one of those rights is somewhere to live! Oh and they do pay council tax
Well, I have to say I did expect this outpouring of hatred when I heard this on the news today.
What is the problem? Many settled people break the law every day, parking somewhere they shouldn't, claiming something on the tax bill and many other ways. Face it, these people don't want to travel anymore, they want a more settled way of life and they like everyone else are entitled to that.
Now, I shall just sit here and wait for the outpouring of hatred against me and before anyone says it, I am not condoning the illegal aspects that they may have in the lifestyle they lead, I am merely sticking up for the fact that they are human and as such have rights and one of those rights is somewhere to live! Oh and they do pay council tax
Posted by: wellblowme, Anywhere but here on 5:11pm Fri 9 May 08
I smell a trol!
Posted by: piano hinges on 5:12pm Fri 9 May 08
[quote][bold]Margaret Stoll[/bold] wrote:
Be careful. You'll be told it's 'silly ramblings' and it's not about you, you, you.[/quote] Don't worry Margaret, most of us understood what you meant perfectly well.
Margaret Stoll wrote:
Be careful. You'll be told it's 'silly ramblings' and it's not about you, you, you.
Don't worry Margaret, most of us understood what you meant perfectly well.
Posted by: Partyboy, Saarfend on 5:17pm Fri 9 May 08
[quote][bold]wellblowme[/bold] wrote:
I smell a trol![/quote] That'll be the crap being spouted by a pikey lover posting on this forum... mentioning no names....
wellblowme wrote:
I smell a trol!
That'll be the crap being spouted by a pikey lover posting on this forum... mentioning no names....
Posted by: wellblowme, Anywhere but here on 5:29pm Fri 9 May 08
[quote][bold]Lisa Jensen[/bold] wrote:
Well, I have to say I did expect this outpouring of hatred when I heard this on the news today. What is the problem? Many settled people break the law every day, parking somewhere they shouldn't, claiming something on the tax bill and many other ways. Face it, these people don't want to travel anymore, they want a more settled way of life and they like everyone else are entitled to that. Now, I shall just sit here and wait for the outpouring of hatred against me and before anyone says it, I am not condoning the illegal aspects that they may have in the lifestyle they lead, I am merely sticking up for the fact that they are human and as such have rights and one of those rights is somewhere to live! Oh and they do pay council tax[/quote] Parking? are you mad ?
This is about people who have no regard for the law!
And the Tax bills and council Tax payments!
Are you so up your own arse that you can't see what's going on? If you are indeed a 'settled' resident of this septic county then your £££'s are going towards this wanton disregard of the law of the land.
Of course they don't want to travel anymore, they were kicked out of Ireland and found an easy slice of pie in England and this is what has become of it.
Don't use the human bullshit card here, as if they were in your backyard and you opposed them, they wouldn't hesitate in taking you down, pure and simple!
Form a proper opinion before you come on here or anywhere spouting crap like that!
Lisa Jensen wrote:
Well, I have to say I did expect this outpouring of hatred when I heard this on the news today. What is the problem? Many settled people break the law every day, parking somewhere they shouldn't, claiming something on the tax bill and many other ways. Face it, these people don't want to travel anymore, they want a more settled way of life and they like everyone else are entitled to that. Now, I shall just sit here and wait for the outpouring of hatred against me and before anyone says it, I am not condoning the illegal aspects that they may have in the lifestyle they lead, I am merely sticking up for the fact that they are human and as such have rights and one of those rights is somewhere to live! Oh and they do pay council tax
Parking? are you mad ?
This is about people who have no regard for the law!
And the Tax bills and council Tax payments!
Are you so up your own arse that you can't see what's going on? If you are indeed a 'settled' resident of this septic county then your £££'s are going towards this wanton disregard of the law of the land.
Of course they don't want to travel anymore, they were kicked out of Ireland and found an easy slice of pie in England and this is what has become of it.
Don't use the human bullshit card here, as if they were in your backyard and you opposed them, they wouldn't hesitate in taking you down, pure and simple!
Form a proper opinion before you come on here or anywhere spouting crap like that!
Posted by: Andrew, Shoeburyness on 5:32pm Fri 9 May 08
[quote][bold]Lisa Jensen[/bold] wrote:
Well, I have to say I did expect this outpouring of hatred when I heard this on the news today.
What is the problem? Many settled people break the law every day, parking somewhere they shouldn't, claiming something on the tax bill and many other ways. Face it, these people don't want to travel anymore, they want a more settled way of life and they like everyone else are entitled to that.
Now, I shall just sit here and wait for the outpouring of hatred against me and before anyone says it, I am not condoning the illegal aspects that they may have in the lifestyle they lead, I am merely sticking up for the fact that they are human and as such have rights and one of those rights is somewhere to live! Oh and they do pay council tax[/quote] [bold]Then there is nothing stopping them from buying or renting houses and flats.
They have NO RIGHT to decide they can build on greenbelt. `If they want to live a settled life then they have to abide by settled law.
[italic]Richard Sheridan says "As British citizens we are entitled to live like everybody else".[/italic]
These people are from southern Ireland, Eire, and the last time I looked Eire was NOT part of Britain. So how can these tax dodging benefit scroungers from Rathkeale claim to be 'British'? I thought they were always claiming to be an 'ethnic minority' (which they are NOT), well its either one or the other.
Either way, they should go back to their houses in Rathkeale.
I think that as the government, council, county council and the law, hve failed the law abiding majority, it is time for some DIRECT ACTION.[/bold]
Lisa Jensen wrote:
Well, I have to say I did expect this outpouring of hatred when I heard this on the news today.
What is the problem? Many settled people break the law every day, parking somewhere they shouldn't, claiming something on the tax bill and many other ways. Face it, these people don't want to travel anymore, they want a more settled way of life and they like everyone else are entitled to that.
Now, I shall just sit here and wait for the outpouring of hatred against me and before anyone says it, I am not condoning the illegal aspects that they may have in the lifestyle they lead, I am merely sticking up for the fact th
