Boot camps in Southend parks to be charged fee

7:30am Friday 18th January 2013 in News

Craig Wood and trainer Sam Lake Craig Wood and trainer Sam Lake

BOOT camp instructors and personal trainers could be charged to use public parks for their classes.

Chiefs at Southend Council have proposed introducing a £150 annual fee for businesses which run fitness sessions for members of the public who want to get in shape.

Enthusiasm for the so-called “boot camps” has soared in recent years and bosses want to cash in on the boom as they strive to save £12million next year.

But sceptical instructors have questioned whether the new charge is entirely fair.

Sam Lake’s Military Boot Camps runs regular sessons in Westcliff’s cliff gardens and Chalkwell Park.

He was a serving paratrooper until last week, but quit the Army to focus full-time on the fitness classes.

He said: “The fee doesn’t seem too high and I’d be happy to pay it as I have always done things properly.

“However, it’s also true to say most of my clients are local people and they all pay their council tax to be able to use the parks.

“These sessions are becoming really popular and it’s a great way of encouraging people to live a healthy lifestyle.

“I only charge £5 a session, but I suppose I may have to put that up in the future if my own costs rise.”

Vicky Hitchens owns Fat Loss Bootcamp, which runs sessions in Chalkwell Park.

She said: “The charge doesn’t seem extortionate at all, but there is the question of where do you draw the line?

“If we are being charged, when do you start charging people going for a group jog, or even walking their dogs?”

The £150 fee would grant businesses a permit to use any public land in the borough for fitness classes over 12 months.

Chelmsford Council already charges personal trainers for using its parks.

The idea will have to be signed off by all councillors before it can come into force in April.

However, the authority desperately needs to make dozens of cuts to plug the shortfall in Government funding.

Nigel Holdcroft, the Tory council leader, said: “If a public park is being used to host a commercial activity, then it is reasonable for a charge to be made.

“The exact details will be agreed when the proposal has been approved by council.”

Comments (70)

7:55am Fri 18 Jan 13

Nebs says...

I like the idea of charging people to walk their dogs in public parks.
I like the idea of charging people to walk their dogs in public parks. Nebs

8:03am Fri 18 Jan 13

siddymint says...

were is the line drawn ?
What about ramblers who nail direction route signs to trees, golf practice people, dog trainers, and as been commented dog walkers.
its a very slippery slope.
Then who collects? They havn't got enough staff to collect from golfers, and have abondoned collecting for tennis.
A stupid idea
were is the line drawn ? What about ramblers who nail direction route signs to trees, golf practice people, dog trainers, and as been commented dog walkers. its a very slippery slope. Then who collects? They havn't got enough staff to collect from golfers, and have abondoned collecting for tennis. A stupid idea siddymint

8:05am Fri 18 Jan 13

Max Impact says...

Yes they should be charged, they are using public land for their own financial gain, any other business has to pay charges, just because these fitness instructors are not based in a shop does not exempt them.
Yes they should be charged, they are using public land for their own financial gain, any other business has to pay charges, just because these fitness instructors are not based in a shop does not exempt them. Max Impact

8:09am Fri 18 Jan 13

SARFENDMAN says...

Nice little earner Rodney. Brilliant idea! How about charging kids to use the play areas? Scaled entrance fees to the parks for adults, kids, buggies, bikes and so forth,
Nice little earner Rodney. Brilliant idea! How about charging kids to use the play areas? Scaled entrance fees to the parks for adults, kids, buggies, bikes and so forth, SARFENDMAN

8:29am Fri 18 Jan 13

Russ13 says...

I think this is bordering on extortion!

We all pay council tax that is used to run/maintain the local parks and public spaces.

Why should people have to pay twice just because it's an organised event?

Do driving instructors/taxi drivers have to pay extra taxes because they're using the public highway for commercial use?

Just another attempt by councils to bleed everyone dry!
I think this is bordering on extortion! We all pay council tax that is used to run/maintain the local parks and public spaces. Why should people have to pay twice just because it's an organised event? Do driving instructors/taxi drivers have to pay extra taxes because they're using the public highway for commercial use? Just another attempt by councils to bleed everyone dry! Russ13

8:34am Fri 18 Jan 13

j-w says...

some of these boot camps do cause a bit of unintentional damage so a charge is fair. look at the grassy area opposite Thames yacht club and its a bit churned up, I also believe that there has been a few problems in Leigh.
£150 is not much to pay for using the parks for financial gain.
some of these boot camps do cause a bit of unintentional damage so a charge is fair. look at the grassy area opposite Thames yacht club and its a bit churned up, I also believe that there has been a few problems in Leigh. £150 is not much to pay for using the parks for financial gain. j-w

9:10am Fri 18 Jan 13

Essex Medja says...

Nebs wrote:
I like the idea of charging people to walk their dogs in public parks.
I agree, then perhaps the owners might get them to sh*%t in their own gardens instead.
[quote][p][bold]Nebs[/bold] wrote: I like the idea of charging people to walk their dogs in public parks.[/p][/quote]I agree, then perhaps the owners might get them to sh*%t in their own gardens instead. Essex Medja

9:19am Fri 18 Jan 13

Shoebury_Cyclist says...

If an organisation is putting on a special event, like a fete or festival or concert then yes, charge that organisation. But these Boot camp groups are causing no harm or damage, and they do not prevent others from using those public spaces.

Public parks are called public for a reason. They are paid for by the public through taxation. Charging people for getting off their backsides and getting fit in a public space they have already paid for is plain wrong.
If an organisation is putting on a special event, like a fete or festival or concert then yes, charge that organisation. But these Boot camp groups are causing no harm or damage, and they do not prevent others from using those public spaces. Public parks are called public for a reason. They are paid for by the public through taxation. Charging people for getting off their backsides and getting fit in a public space they have already paid for is plain wrong. Shoebury_Cyclist

9:33am Fri 18 Jan 13

J_blond says...

So if I set up a business, and decide to rent a unit, pay the rent on that, the tax on that, then all the bills that goes with, I expect to do so. But I can just pitch up in a public park for free?

If you run a business in a public park you should pay. Don't forget, it's the business owner who is paying not the attendees (although the fees may go up) - £150 for a year is not a lot, just over a tenner a month. With no other overheads (except public liability insurance which I am sure all these companies have) then it's hardly a huge dent in profits.

For the gentleman interviewed here, it's just an additional two or three people at his boot camps, or an extra quid or two on the cost of attending.
So if I set up a business, and decide to rent a unit, pay the rent on that, the tax on that, then all the bills that goes with, I expect to do so. But I can just pitch up in a public park for free? If you run a business in a public park you should pay. Don't forget, it's the business owner who is paying not the attendees (although the fees may go up) - £150 for a year is not a lot, just over a tenner a month. With no other overheads (except public liability insurance which I am sure all these companies have) then it's hardly a huge dent in profits. For the gentleman interviewed here, it's just an additional two or three people at his boot camps, or an extra quid or two on the cost of attending. J_blond

9:36am Fri 18 Jan 13

JuliaM says...

"If we are being charged, when do you start charging people going for a group jog, or even walking their dogs?”

When they manage to get away with this, of course!
"If we are being charged, when do you start charging people going for a group jog, or even walking their dogs?” When they manage to get away with this, of course! JuliaM

9:39am Fri 18 Jan 13

Shoebury_Cyclist says...

" Don't forget, it's the business owner who is paying not the attendees (although the fees may go up)"

If the fees have to go up to cover this ridiculous charge then it IS the attendees who will have to pay.

Perhaps the council will set limits on how many people can jog together through our parks, more than five friends together incurs a charge… Or what if they're a walking group, more than five people incurs a charge…

Sounds rather Orwellian to me.
" Don't forget, it's the business owner who is paying not the attendees (although the fees may go up)" If the fees have to go up to cover this ridiculous charge then it IS the attendees who will have to pay. Perhaps the council will set limits on how many people can jog together through our parks, more than five friends together incurs a charge… Or what if they're a walking group, more than five people incurs a charge… Sounds rather Orwellian to me. Shoebury_Cyclist

9:41am Fri 18 Jan 13

Russ13 says...

JuliaM wrote:
"If we are being charged, when do you start charging people going for a group jog, or even walking their dogs?” When they manage to get away with this, of course!
Precisely....... a small group of friends decide to take up jogging and use a local park, what is the difference to the park/council if the organiser is being paid or not?
[quote][p][bold]JuliaM[/bold] wrote: "If we are being charged, when do you start charging people going for a group jog, or even walking their dogs?” When they manage to get away with this, of course![/p][/quote]Precisely....... a small group of friends decide to take up jogging and use a local park, what is the difference to the park/council if the organiser is being paid or not? Russ13

9:42am Fri 18 Jan 13

Shoebury_Cyclist says...

Imagine that, Council Group Wardens. Any group of more than five people walking or jogging together incurs a charge. All monitored with CCTV.
Imagine that, Council Group Wardens. Any group of more than five people walking or jogging together incurs a charge. All monitored with CCTV. Shoebury_Cyclist

9:47am Fri 18 Jan 13

SARFENDMAN says...

Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:
Imagine that, Council Group Wardens. Any group of more than five people walking or jogging together incurs a charge. All monitored with CCTV.
How about installing jogging speed cameras?
[quote][p][bold]Shoebury_Cyclist[/bold] wrote: Imagine that, Council Group Wardens. Any group of more than five people walking or jogging together incurs a charge. All monitored with CCTV.[/p][/quote]How about installing jogging speed cameras? SARFENDMAN

9:50am Fri 18 Jan 13

Shoebury_Cyclist says...

Russ13 wrote:
JuliaM wrote:
"If we are being charged, when do you start charging people going for a group jog, or even walking their dogs?” When they manage to get away with this, of course!
Precisely....... a small group of friends decide to take up jogging and use a local park, what is the difference to the park/council if the organiser is being paid or not?
Because if someone is being paid for something our bloodsucking council want their cut. Welcome to Sicily on Sea.
[quote][p][bold]Russ13[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]JuliaM[/bold] wrote: "If we are being charged, when do you start charging people going for a group jog, or even walking their dogs?” When they manage to get away with this, of course![/p][/quote]Precisely....... a small group of friends decide to take up jogging and use a local park, what is the difference to the park/council if the organiser is being paid or not?[/p][/quote]Because if someone is being paid for something our bloodsucking council want their cut. Welcome to Sicily on Sea. Shoebury_Cyclist

11:01am Fri 18 Jan 13

Carnabackable says...

Max Impact wrote:
Yes they should be charged, they are using public land for their own financial gain, any other business has to pay charges, just because these fitness instructors are not based in a shop does not exempt them.
Quite right, these wanna be soldiers traing the unfit and obese are charging a small fortune, let them now pay for their use of the parks and open spaces.
[quote][p][bold]Max Impact[/bold] wrote: Yes they should be charged, they are using public land for their own financial gain, any other business has to pay charges, just because these fitness instructors are not based in a shop does not exempt them.[/p][/quote]Quite right, these wanna be soldiers traing the unfit and obese are charging a small fortune, let them now pay for their use of the parks and open spaces. Carnabackable

11:11am Fri 18 Jan 13

perini says...

J_blond wrote:
So if I set up a business, and decide to rent a unit, pay the rent on that, the tax on that, then all the bills that goes with, I expect to do so. But I can just pitch up in a public park for free? If you run a business in a public park you should pay. Don't forget, it's the business owner who is paying not the attendees (although the fees may go up) - £150 for a year is not a lot, just over a tenner a month. With no other overheads (except public liability insurance which I am sure all these companies have) then it's hardly a huge dent in profits. For the gentleman interviewed here, it's just an additional two or three people at his boot camps, or an extra quid or two on the cost of attending.
Good point! If the council is charging for using the public parks then presumably they would be responsible for anyone harming themselves whilst using that paid for facility?
[quote][p][bold]J_blond[/bold] wrote: So if I set up a business, and decide to rent a unit, pay the rent on that, the tax on that, then all the bills that goes with, I expect to do so. But I can just pitch up in a public park for free? If you run a business in a public park you should pay. Don't forget, it's the business owner who is paying not the attendees (although the fees may go up) - £150 for a year is not a lot, just over a tenner a month. With no other overheads (except public liability insurance which I am sure all these companies have) then it's hardly a huge dent in profits. For the gentleman interviewed here, it's just an additional two or three people at his boot camps, or an extra quid or two on the cost of attending.[/p][/quote]Good point! If the council is charging for using the public parks then presumably they would be responsible for anyone harming themselves whilst using that paid for facility? perini

11:16am Fri 18 Jan 13

Eric Whim says...

Carnabackable wrote:
Max Impact wrote:
Yes they should be charged, they are using public land for their own financial gain, any other business has to pay charges, just because these fitness instructors are not based in a shop does not exempt them.
Quite right, these wanna be soldiers traing the unfit and obese are charging a small fortune, let them now pay for their use of the parks and open spaces.
set up some scales and use a weight related sliding fee scale...
[quote][p][bold]Carnabackable[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Max Impact[/bold] wrote: Yes they should be charged, they are using public land for their own financial gain, any other business has to pay charges, just because these fitness instructors are not based in a shop does not exempt them.[/p][/quote]Quite right, these wanna be soldiers traing the unfit and obese are charging a small fortune, let them now pay for their use of the parks and open spaces.[/p][/quote]set up some scales and use a weight related sliding fee scale... Eric Whim

11:18am Fri 18 Jan 13

Essex Medja says...

perini wrote:
J_blond wrote:
So if I set up a business, and decide to rent a unit, pay the rent on that, the tax on that, then all the bills that goes with, I expect to do so. But I can just pitch up in a public park for free? If you run a business in a public park you should pay. Don't forget, it's the business owner who is paying not the attendees (although the fees may go up) - £150 for a year is not a lot, just over a tenner a month. With no other overheads (except public liability insurance which I am sure all these companies have) then it's hardly a huge dent in profits. For the gentleman interviewed here, it's just an additional two or three people at his boot camps, or an extra quid or two on the cost of attending.
Good point! If the council is charging for using the public parks then presumably they would be responsible for anyone harming themselves whilst using that paid for facility?
I use toll roads and if some other driver ran into me or i had an accident i would not sue the toll owner unless they were directly negligent in some way.
.
If some muppet pulls a muscle would they call in the injury claims lawyers? Yeah sad but true in these days of compo they would expect soemone other than themselves to be responsible !!!
[quote][p][bold]perini[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]J_blond[/bold] wrote: So if I set up a business, and decide to rent a unit, pay the rent on that, the tax on that, then all the bills that goes with, I expect to do so. But I can just pitch up in a public park for free? If you run a business in a public park you should pay. Don't forget, it's the business owner who is paying not the attendees (although the fees may go up) - £150 for a year is not a lot, just over a tenner a month. With no other overheads (except public liability insurance which I am sure all these companies have) then it's hardly a huge dent in profits. For the gentleman interviewed here, it's just an additional two or three people at his boot camps, or an extra quid or two on the cost of attending.[/p][/quote]Good point! If the council is charging for using the public parks then presumably they would be responsible for anyone harming themselves whilst using that paid for facility?[/p][/quote]I use toll roads and if some other driver ran into me or i had an accident i would not sue the toll owner unless they were directly negligent in some way. . If some muppet pulls a muscle would they call in the injury claims lawyers? Yeah sad but true in these days of compo they would expect soemone other than themselves to be responsible !!! Essex Medja

11:48am Fri 18 Jan 13

r6keith says...

Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:
Imagine that, Council Group Wardens. Any group of more than five people walking or jogging together incurs a charge. All monitored with CCTV.
What if Mrs rich has a personel trainer ?
[quote][p][bold]Shoebury_Cyclist[/bold] wrote: Imagine that, Council Group Wardens. Any group of more than five people walking or jogging together incurs a charge. All monitored with CCTV.[/p][/quote]What if Mrs rich has a personel trainer ? r6keith

11:52am Fri 18 Jan 13

r6keith says...

Football clubs train in the park most players pay a weekly fee , do we start charging them too? Beware the slippery slope of greed.
Football clubs train in the park most players pay a weekly fee , do we start charging them too? Beware the slippery slope of greed. r6keith

1:18pm Fri 18 Jan 13

DCLEIGH says...

SO much for the olympic legacy....
Let's try and make a quick buck out of the enterprise of people trying to help the economy....
Let's see how else we can fleece the general public for using what belongs to them.
It's one vulture after another queuing up, with hand outheld to take some of our money for doing nothing.
This attempt at stealing money is shameful
SO much for the olympic legacy.... Let's try and make a quick buck out of the enterprise of people trying to help the economy.... Let's see how else we can fleece the general public for using what belongs to them. It's one vulture after another queuing up, with hand outheld to take some of our money for doing nothing. This attempt at stealing money is shameful DCLEIGH

1:58pm Fri 18 Jan 13

sam1ake says...

Hi I am the trainer in the picture above, Like i said i would be more than happy to pay the fee's suggested as long as we see where the money is going, We all pay our council taxes for maintenance of these places. If a trainer pays for usage of a park does that mean they have exclusivity to that park etc, How we they manage and control this from someone like myself who has taken a massive leap from leaving the army to try and do this full time to a part time trainer looking to earn some extra cash will the fee's be the same? I for one make sure that after every session I make a sweep of the whole area i have used and pick up and bottles or rubbish that might have been left behind, Also 9/10 picking up rubbish that has been thrown around by members of the public and picking up their dog's mess lol, All we want to know is what the money is for

Sam Lake
Military bootcamps
Hi I am the trainer in the picture above, Like i said i would be more than happy to pay the fee's suggested as long as we see where the money is going, We all pay our council taxes for maintenance of these places. If a trainer pays for usage of a park does that mean they have exclusivity to that park etc, How we they manage and control this from someone like myself who has taken a massive leap from leaving the army to try and do this full time to a part time trainer looking to earn some extra cash will the fee's be the same? I for one make sure that after every session I make a sweep of the whole area i have used and pick up and bottles or rubbish that might have been left behind, Also 9/10 picking up rubbish that has been thrown around by members of the public and picking up their dog's mess lol, All we want to know is what the money is for Sam Lake Military bootcamps sam1ake

2:27pm Fri 18 Jan 13

ludlow65 says...

Excel Southend Fitbody Bootcamp run a free bootcamp at the seafront on a saturday morning once the weather is nice right through the summer with the aim of getting people fit and healthy - so charging them for this good service they provide would not seem right - i think the council should pay the trainers for their dedication to getting people fit !!!!
Excel Southend Fitbody Bootcamp run a free bootcamp at the seafront on a saturday morning once the weather is nice right through the summer with the aim of getting people fit and healthy - so charging them for this good service they provide would not seem right - i think the council should pay the trainers for their dedication to getting people fit !!!! ludlow65

2:33pm Fri 18 Jan 13

Rob777 says...

Its 150 quid a year who cares ?

It works out at 40p a day. Lets say the wannna be rambos do two classes a day with four classes on sat & sunday. Thats 18 classes a week, maybe an average of 25 people in each class @ 5 pound so £2250 a week or £117,000 a year. (I would suggest most is not declared in many cases)

No wonder the man said “The fee doesn’t seem too high and I’d be happy to pay it"
Its 150 quid a year who cares ? It works out at 40p a day. Lets say the wannna be rambos do two classes a day with four classes on sat & sunday. Thats 18 classes a week, maybe an average of 25 people in each class @ 5 pound so £2250 a week or £117,000 a year. (I would suggest most is not declared in many cases) No wonder the man said “The fee doesn’t seem too high and I’d be happy to pay it" Rob777

2:45pm Fri 18 Jan 13

cl0ud says...

So in a country with an obesity epidemic and levels of exercise at an all time low we are charging people again to use parks they have already paid for. Southend Council should be subsidising these activities and not taxing them!
So in a country with an obesity epidemic and levels of exercise at an all time low we are charging people again to use parks they have already paid for. Southend Council should be subsidising these activities and not taxing them! cl0ud

2:50pm Fri 18 Jan 13

Shoebury_Cyclist says...

Rob777 wrote:
Its 150 quid a year who cares ?

It works out at 40p a day. Lets say the wannna be rambos do two classes a day with four classes on sat & sunday. Thats 18 classes a week, maybe an average of 25 people in each class @ 5 pound so £2250 a week or £117,000 a year. (I would suggest most is not declared in many cases)

No wonder the man said “The fee doesn’t seem too high and I’d be happy to pay it"
Considering one of the people who runs these exercise classes is reading these comments, that's a bravely libellous thing for you to say.
[quote][p][bold]Rob777[/bold] wrote: Its 150 quid a year who cares ? It works out at 40p a day. Lets say the wannna be rambos do two classes a day with four classes on sat & sunday. Thats 18 classes a week, maybe an average of 25 people in each class @ 5 pound so £2250 a week or £117,000 a year. (I would suggest most is not declared in many cases) No wonder the man said “The fee doesn’t seem too high and I’d be happy to pay it"[/p][/quote]Considering one of the people who runs these exercise classes is reading these comments, that's a bravely libellous thing for you to say. Shoebury_Cyclist

2:54pm Fri 18 Jan 13

Alekhine says...

sam1ake

I suggest the money is put into a public fund to send fatboy council chiefs to a boot camp. (no sick notes allowed). It has to be a vote winner.
sam1ake I suggest the money is put into a public fund to send fatboy council chiefs to a boot camp. (no sick notes allowed). It has to be a vote winner. Alekhine

3:11pm Fri 18 Jan 13

Alekhine says...

Alekhine wrote:
sam1ake I suggest the money is put into a public fund to send fatboy council chiefs to a boot camp. (no sick notes allowed). It has to be a vote winner.
This could be linked to some kind of annual performance review. The more funds collected by the boot camp tax the more they can be rewarded....
[quote][p][bold]Alekhine[/bold] wrote: sam1ake I suggest the money is put into a public fund to send fatboy council chiefs to a boot camp. (no sick notes allowed). It has to be a vote winner.[/p][/quote]This could be linked to some kind of annual performance review. The more funds collected by the boot camp tax the more they can be rewarded.... Alekhine

3:25pm Fri 18 Jan 13

reptile says...

They could use that concrete wasteland outside Southend Victoria Station.
They could use that concrete wasteland outside Southend Victoria Station. reptile

4:01pm Fri 18 Jan 13

Rob777 says...

Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:
Rob777 wrote:
Its 150 quid a year who cares ?

It works out at 40p a day. Lets say the wannna be rambos do two classes a day with four classes on sat & sunday. Thats 18 classes a week, maybe an average of 25 people in each class @ 5 pound so £2250 a week or £117,000 a year. (I would suggest most is not declared in many cases)

No wonder the man said “The fee doesn’t seem too high and I’d be happy to pay it"
Considering one of the people who runs these exercise classes is reading these comments, that's a bravely libellous thing for you to say.
Na, the majority of self employed people in cash transaction professions are at it. It to easy to fiddle & perhaps human nature. Although Ive no doubt many still do things by the book (literally).

Its a well known fact that junior tax inspectors are given black cab drivers to cut their teeth on.

One thing I think this government has done well is to change policy & focus on high net worth tax cheats rather than the little guys.
[quote][p][bold]Shoebury_Cyclist[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Rob777[/bold] wrote: Its 150 quid a year who cares ? It works out at 40p a day. Lets say the wannna be rambos do two classes a day with four classes on sat & sunday. Thats 18 classes a week, maybe an average of 25 people in each class @ 5 pound so £2250 a week or £117,000 a year. (I would suggest most is not declared in many cases) No wonder the man said “The fee doesn’t seem too high and I’d be happy to pay it"[/p][/quote]Considering one of the people who runs these exercise classes is reading these comments, that's a bravely libellous thing for you to say.[/p][/quote]Na, the majority of self employed people in cash transaction professions are at it. It to easy to fiddle & perhaps human nature. Although Ive no doubt many still do things by the book (literally). Its a well known fact that junior tax inspectors are given black cab drivers to cut their teeth on. One thing I think this government has done well is to change policy & focus on high net worth tax cheats rather than the little guys. Rob777

4:47pm Fri 18 Jan 13

sam1ake says...

Rob777 wrote:
Its 150 quid a year who cares ?

It works out at 40p a day. Lets say the wannna be rambos do two classes a day with four classes on sat & sunday. Thats 18 classes a week, maybe an average of 25 people in each class @ 5 pound so £2250 a week or £117,000 a year. (I would suggest most is not declared in many cases)

No wonder the man said “The fee doesn’t seem too high and I’d be happy to pay it"
If only things worked out in real life like you had just worked out on paper Rob, everyone would be doing it! If I had left the army for £117,000 a year this 'wanna be rambo' certainly would not be complaining about £150 a year. I was questioning where/what is the money going on.

Sincerely this 'wanna be rambo'
7 years in the Parachute regiment do your research buddy
[quote][p][bold]Rob777[/bold] wrote: Its 150 quid a year who cares ? It works out at 40p a day. Lets say the wannna be rambos do two classes a day with four classes on sat & sunday. Thats 18 classes a week, maybe an average of 25 people in each class @ 5 pound so £2250 a week or £117,000 a year. (I would suggest most is not declared in many cases) No wonder the man said “The fee doesn’t seem too high and I’d be happy to pay it"[/p][/quote]If only things worked out in real life like you had just worked out on paper Rob, everyone would be doing it! If I had left the army for £117,000 a year this 'wanna be rambo' certainly would not be complaining about £150 a year. I was questioning where/what is the money going on. Sincerely this 'wanna be rambo' 7 years in the Parachute regiment do your research buddy sam1ake

5:20pm Fri 18 Jan 13

Rob777 says...

sam1ake wrote:
Rob777 wrote:
Its 150 quid a year who cares ?

It works out at 40p a day. Lets say the wannna be rambos do two classes a day with four classes on sat & sunday. Thats 18 classes a week, maybe an average of 25 people in each class @ 5 pound so £2250 a week or £117,000 a year. (I would suggest most is not declared in many cases)

No wonder the man said “The fee doesn’t seem too high and I’d be happy to pay it"
If only things worked out in real life like you had just worked out on paper Rob, everyone would be doing it! If I had left the army for £117,000 a year this 'wanna be rambo' certainly would not be complaining about £150 a year. I was questioning where/what is the money going on.

Sincerely this 'wanna be rambo'
7 years in the Parachute regiment do your research buddy
Haha nothing personal sam1ake & Im aware you haven't moaned about the fee.

Ive no doubt with the way you have conducted yourself on here & the coverage in the article you will gain many new customers.

I wish your business venture every success.
[quote][p][bold]sam1ake[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Rob777[/bold] wrote: Its 150 quid a year who cares ? It works out at 40p a day. Lets say the wannna be rambos do two classes a day with four classes on sat & sunday. Thats 18 classes a week, maybe an average of 25 people in each class @ 5 pound so £2250 a week or £117,000 a year. (I would suggest most is not declared in many cases) No wonder the man said “The fee doesn’t seem too high and I’d be happy to pay it"[/p][/quote]If only things worked out in real life like you had just worked out on paper Rob, everyone would be doing it! If I had left the army for £117,000 a year this 'wanna be rambo' certainly would not be complaining about £150 a year. I was questioning where/what is the money going on. Sincerely this 'wanna be rambo' 7 years in the Parachute regiment do your research buddy[/p][/quote]Haha nothing personal sam1ake & Im aware you haven't moaned about the fee. Ive no doubt with the way you have conducted yourself on here & the coverage in the article you will gain many new customers. I wish your business venture every success. Rob777

7:13pm Fri 18 Jan 13

whataday says...

Its about time these councils provided the exercise apparatus for adults in the parks. These are provided free by councils in other countries. Thought there was supposed to be some government health initiatives to combat obesity so how about providing something (as pointed out by posters above we've paid our taxes, council taxes etc.)
Its about time these councils provided the exercise apparatus for adults in the parks. These are provided free by councils in other countries. Thought there was supposed to be some government health initiatives to combat obesity so how about providing something (as pointed out by posters above we've paid our taxes, council taxes etc.) whataday

7:13pm Fri 18 Jan 13

whataday says...

Its about time these councils provided the exercise apparatus for adults in the parks. These are provided free by councils in other countries. Thought there was supposed to be some government health initiatives to combat obesity so how about providing something (as pointed out by posters above we've paid our taxes, council taxes etc.)
Its about time these councils provided the exercise apparatus for adults in the parks. These are provided free by councils in other countries. Thought there was supposed to be some government health initiatives to combat obesity so how about providing something (as pointed out by posters above we've paid our taxes, council taxes etc.) whataday

8:22pm Fri 18 Jan 13

Audioman says...

GREED GREED GREED.the council's are all doing it now.If I want to train in a park I will do it parks are public places
payed for with your council tax (if you pay it )as many do try and get away without paying !!!
GREED GREED GREED.the council's are all doing it now.If I want to train in a park I will do it parks are public places payed for with your council tax (if you pay it )as many do try and get away without paying !!! Audioman

8:23pm Fri 18 Jan 13

Audioman says...

GREED GREED GREED.the council's are all doing it now.If I want to train in a park I will do it parks are public places
payed for with your council tax (if you pay it )as many do try and get away without paying !!!
GREED GREED GREED.the council's are all doing it now.If I want to train in a park I will do it parks are public places payed for with your council tax (if you pay it )as many do try and get away without paying !!! Audioman

10:29pm Fri 18 Jan 13

runwellian says...

Even as an unfunded charitable group with no budget, Southend Council wanted to charge us to advertise our events by giving out leaflets in the town. It has to be the meanest council in Britain. In Basildon we get the whole town centre and so much fabulous support free of any charge and the staff help us on the day.
Scrooge runs southend Council and how they got voted the best, beggars belief!
Leigh Time to change
Even as an unfunded charitable group with no budget, Southend Council wanted to charge us to advertise our events by giving out leaflets in the town. It has to be the meanest council in Britain. In Basildon we get the whole town centre and so much fabulous support free of any charge and the staff help us on the day. Scrooge runs southend Council and how they got voted the best, beggars belief! Leigh Time to change runwellian

10:43pm Fri 18 Jan 13

Southend65 says...

Can't help thinking that the council have got this all wrong.

If people such as sam1ake have the get up and go to try and start such initiative, with all of the health benefits that it brings, should we not be encouraging them rather than penalising them?

I have no qualm with a drooling over bunch of fit birds bouncing up and down whilst I'm munching on my picnic.

Keep up the good work :3)
Can't help thinking that the council have got this all wrong. If people such as sam1ake have the get up and go to try and start such initiative, with all of the health benefits that it brings, should we not be encouraging them rather than penalising them? I have no qualm with a drooling over bunch of fit birds bouncing up and down whilst I'm munching on my picnic. Keep up the good work :3) Southend65

10:52pm Fri 18 Jan 13

jayman says...

not enforceable, costly to control.

A desperate act by a council that's out of touch.

not a good week/month for the councils thinking department is it?
not enforceable, costly to control. A desperate act by a council that's out of touch. not a good week/month for the councils thinking department is it? jayman

11:53pm Fri 18 Jan 13

Max Impact says...

whataday wrote:
Its about time these councils provided the exercise apparatus for adults in the parks. These are provided free by councils in other countries. Thought there was supposed to be some government health initiatives to combat obesity so how about providing something (as pointed out by posters above we've paid our taxes, council taxes etc.)
There are some in Priory Park if you had botherd to look you would have seen them.
[quote][p][bold]whataday[/bold] wrote: Its about time these councils provided the exercise apparatus for adults in the parks. These are provided free by councils in other countries. Thought there was supposed to be some government health initiatives to combat obesity so how about providing something (as pointed out by posters above we've paid our taxes, council taxes etc.)[/p][/quote]There are some in Priory Park if you had botherd to look you would have seen them. Max Impact

12:00am Sat 19 Jan 13

Max Impact says...

jayman wrote:
not enforceable, costly to control.

A desperate act by a council that's out of touch.

not a good week/month for the councils thinking department is it?
Why should a private individual gain financially from the park when gyms have to pay rates/rents etc:

So it would not bother you if I was to set up a fit camp and take 100+ people in the park at a time and charge them £100 per session, cut the grass up with tyre towing and studded runnign shoes and not pay a penny extra.

I might not get back too you soon as I'm off to Garove Island in the Bismarck Sea for some wreck diving.

Love it out there.
[quote][p][bold]jayman[/bold] wrote: not enforceable, costly to control. A desperate act by a council that's out of touch. not a good week/month for the councils thinking department is it?[/p][/quote]Why should a private individual gain financially from the park when gyms have to pay rates/rents etc: So it would not bother you if I was to set up a fit camp and take 100+ people in the park at a time and charge them £100 per session, cut the grass up with tyre towing and studded runnign shoes and not pay a penny extra. I might not get back too you soon as I'm off to Garove Island in the Bismarck Sea for some wreck diving. Love it out there. Max Impact

7:36am Sat 19 Jan 13

Shoebury_Cyclist says...

Max Impact wrote:
jayman wrote:
not enforceable, costly to control.

A desperate act by a council that's out of touch.

not a good week/month for the councils thinking department is it?
Why should a private individual gain financially from the park when gyms have to pay rates/rents etc:

So it would not bother you if I was to set up a fit camp and take 100+ people in the park at a time and charge them £100 per session, cut the grass up with tyre towing and studded runnign shoes and not pay a penny extra.

I might not get back too you soon as I'm off to Garove Island in the Bismarck Sea for some wreck diving.

Love it out there.
But you've got no problem with the seafront being completely blocked for two days so you can get excited about a few airoplanes.
[quote][p][bold]Max Impact[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]jayman[/bold] wrote: not enforceable, costly to control. A desperate act by a council that's out of touch. not a good week/month for the councils thinking department is it?[/p][/quote]Why should a private individual gain financially from the park when gyms have to pay rates/rents etc: So it would not bother you if I was to set up a fit camp and take 100+ people in the park at a time and charge them £100 per session, cut the grass up with tyre towing and studded runnign shoes and not pay a penny extra. I might not get back too you soon as I'm off to Garove Island in the Bismarck Sea for some wreck diving. Love it out there.[/p][/quote]But you've got no problem with the seafront being completely blocked for two days so you can get excited about a few airoplanes. Shoebury_Cyclist

7:40am Sat 19 Jan 13

Shoebury_Cyclist says...

Oh and Max looking forward to seeing you post some photos of your five trip. Pics of the boat, the dive etc. Should be easy enough for you to do.

Cue the excuses why Max can't post photos of his imaginary life.
Oh and Max looking forward to seeing you post some photos of your five trip. Pics of the boat, the dive etc. Should be easy enough for you to do. Cue the excuses why Max can't post photos of his imaginary life. Shoebury_Cyclist

7:52am Sat 19 Jan 13

Thomo100 says...

There are 1,000,000's of businesses that would love overheads of just £150 per year. Let's get real, the council are being fair.
With football, we pay up to £44 per week and still have to pick up all the dog poo (thanks dog owners!).
It's wrong, but a reality of 2013.
There are 1,000,000's of businesses that would love overheads of just £150 per year. Let's get real, the council are being fair. With football, we pay up to £44 per week and still have to pick up all the dog poo (thanks dog owners!). It's wrong, but a reality of 2013. Thomo100

9:34am Sat 19 Jan 13

Nebs says...

Can I set up a drinks and snacks stand in the park for £150 a year?
Can I set up a drinks and snacks stand in the park for £150 a year? Nebs

10:02am Sat 19 Jan 13

Diannah says...

I used to walk my dogs in John Burrows park and every week a coach load of private school children would come in and take over a large part of the park for their PE lesson. I often wonder if the school paid the council to do this, considering the parents are paying large fees to send their children to this school.
I used to walk my dogs in John Burrows park and every week a coach load of private school children would come in and take over a large part of the park for their PE lesson. I often wonder if the school paid the council to do this, considering the parents are paying large fees to send their children to this school. Diannah

10:49am Sat 19 Jan 13

Essex Medja says...

Hmmm I am thinking of all the businesses I could set up in our parks and I am gratified that the majority of this site are against charges.
.
A burger stall (guaranteed no horsemeat only cat).
Thai chi classes (should be good for a diversity grant).
Art classes (book early for the nude life session).
Drug dealing (Class B only to keep the old bill happy).
Prostitution (my auntie Lily, rates on request).
Dog walking (the going rate is £12-15 per hour). honest Ikid you not.
.
BTW the wind surfing brigade take over a corner of east beach and a chap runs his training business from there. In fact he has a set of keys fronm the council that open the car park barriers.
Hmmm I am thinking of all the businesses I could set up in our parks and I am gratified that the majority of this site are against charges. . A burger stall (guaranteed no horsemeat only cat). Thai chi classes (should be good for a diversity grant). Art classes (book early for the nude life session). Drug dealing (Class B only to keep the old bill happy). Prostitution (my auntie Lily, rates on request). Dog walking (the going rate is £12-15 per hour). honest Ikid you not. . BTW the wind surfing brigade take over a corner of east beach and a chap runs his training business from there. In fact he has a set of keys fronm the council that open the car park barriers. Essex Medja

11:53am Sat 19 Jan 13

sam1ake says...

Southend65 wrote:
Can't help thinking that the council have got this all wrong.

If people such as sam1ake have the get up and go to try and start such initiative, with all of the health benefits that it brings, should we not be encouraging them rather than penalising them?

I have no qualm with a drooling over bunch of fit birds bouncing up and down whilst I'm munching on my picnic.

Keep up the good work :3)
Cheers mate, This made me smile lol
[quote][p][bold]Southend65[/bold] wrote: Can't help thinking that the council have got this all wrong. If people such as sam1ake have the get up and go to try and start such initiative, with all of the health benefits that it brings, should we not be encouraging them rather than penalising them? I have no qualm with a drooling over bunch of fit birds bouncing up and down whilst I'm munching on my picnic. Keep up the good work :3)[/p][/quote]Cheers mate, This made me smile lol sam1ake

11:58am Sat 19 Jan 13

sam1ake says...

Eric Whim wrote:
Carnabackable wrote:
Max Impact wrote:
Yes they should be charged, they are using public land for their own financial gain, any other business has to pay charges, just because these fitness instructors are not based in a shop does not exempt them.
Quite right, these wanna be soldiers traing the unfit and obese are charging a small fortune, let them now pay for their use of the parks and open spaces.
set up some scales and use a weight related sliding fee scale...
Eric Whim,

'Wannabe soldiers' do your research buddy!! I would love to hear how your qualified to call me a wannabe soldier, Look forward to a response from another arm chair general

:-)
[quote][p][bold]Eric Whim[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Carnabackable[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Max Impact[/bold] wrote: Yes they should be charged, they are using public land for their own financial gain, any other business has to pay charges, just because these fitness instructors are not based in a shop does not exempt them.[/p][/quote]Quite right, these wanna be soldiers traing the unfit and obese are charging a small fortune, let them now pay for their use of the parks and open spaces.[/p][/quote]set up some scales and use a weight related sliding fee scale...[/p][/quote]Eric Whim, 'Wannabe soldiers' do your research buddy!! I would love to hear how your qualified to call me a wannabe soldier, Look forward to a response from another arm chair general :-) sam1ake

12:36pm Sat 19 Jan 13

tttutor says...

Toll gates are what is needed.
Toll gates are what is needed. tttutor

2:07pm Sat 19 Jan 13

jayman says...

lets face it. its a non starter.

1) there would need to be a council worker in every park, open space, beach and car park in the borough to police the fee.

2) i would be impossible to prove that someone is making money from a park activity unless they are trading in goods or food.
lets face it. its a non starter. 1) there would need to be a council worker in every park, open space, beach and car park in the borough to police the fee. 2) i would be impossible to prove that someone is making money from a park activity unless they are trading in goods or food. jayman

2:07pm Sat 19 Jan 13

jayman says...

lets face it. its a non starter.

1) there would need to be a council worker in every park, open space, beach and car park in the borough to police the fee.

2) i would be impossible to prove that someone is making money from a park activity unless they are trading in goods or food.
lets face it. its a non starter. 1) there would need to be a council worker in every park, open space, beach and car park in the borough to police the fee. 2) i would be impossible to prove that someone is making money from a park activity unless they are trading in goods or food. jayman

3:38pm Sat 19 Jan 13

OMPITA [UK] says...

perini wrote:
J_blond wrote:
So if I set up a business, and decide to rent a unit, pay the rent on that, the tax on that, then all the bills that goes with, I expect to do so. But I can just pitch up in a public park for free? If you run a business in a public park you should pay. Don't forget, it's the business owner who is paying not the attendees (although the fees may go up) - £150 for a year is not a lot, just over a tenner a month. With no other overheads (except public liability insurance which I am sure all these companies have) then it's hardly a huge dent in profits. For the gentleman interviewed here, it's just an additional two or three people at his boot camps, or an extra quid or two on the cost of attending.
Good point! If the council is charging for using the public parks then presumably they would be responsible for anyone harming themselves whilst using that paid for facility?
No way!

You can bet that the Council are not going to offer themselves as being responsible for some idiot who decides to push himself to the point of injury. Their lawyers will ensure that all such risk is transferred to the licence holders who in turn will have to set up and implement an extremely complex and all-embracing Health & Safety Policy.

Thereafter, any little shortfalls in their Risk Assessments would be a perfect excuse for draconian fines being imposed by the council - who no doubt wouldn't miss a chance to milk this latest potential cash cow. The council will rake in a fortune until eventually the licence holders will be forced out of business.

Once that happens the council will cover their a***s by banning all such activity in any case unless individuals can present their own properly approved safety cases backed up with evidence of massive personal insurance and a no doubt a personal licence obtainable for a moderate fee – shall we say circa £100.00 to begin with?

It will be mighty interesting to look back on this subject in a couple of years’ time.
[quote][p][bold]perini[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]J_blond[/bold] wrote: So if I set up a business, and decide to rent a unit, pay the rent on that, the tax on that, then all the bills that goes with, I expect to do so. But I can just pitch up in a public park for free? If you run a business in a public park you should pay. Don't forget, it's the business owner who is paying not the attendees (although the fees may go up) - £150 for a year is not a lot, just over a tenner a month. With no other overheads (except public liability insurance which I am sure all these companies have) then it's hardly a huge dent in profits. For the gentleman interviewed here, it's just an additional two or three people at his boot camps, or an extra quid or two on the cost of attending.[/p][/quote]Good point! If the council is charging for using the public parks then presumably they would be responsible for anyone harming themselves whilst using that paid for facility?[/p][/quote]No way! You can bet that the Council are not going to offer themselves as being responsible for some idiot who decides to push himself to the point of injury. Their lawyers will ensure that all such risk is transferred to the licence holders who in turn will have to set up and implement an extremely complex and all-embracing Health & Safety Policy. Thereafter, any little shortfalls in their Risk Assessments would be a perfect excuse for draconian fines being imposed by the council - who no doubt wouldn't miss a chance to milk this latest potential cash cow. The council will rake in a fortune until eventually the licence holders will be forced out of business. Once that happens the council will cover their a***s by banning all such activity in any case unless individuals can present their own properly approved safety cases backed up with evidence of massive personal insurance and a no doubt a personal licence obtainable for a moderate fee – shall we say circa £100.00 to begin with? It will be mighty interesting to look back on this subject in a couple of years’ time. OMPITA [UK]

4:08pm Sat 19 Jan 13

Julie Leitch says...

I have been on a few photography courses in London where we walk about taking photos of buildings,learning as we go along,do these people pay the local council? Playschools who use the parks for picnics?they are running a business are they not? Football schools? shall I go on? In this day and age I would of thought that someone having the gumption to start their own business should be commended, especially someone who has served their country,rather than kicked in the teeth.....
I have been on a few photography courses in London where we walk about taking photos of buildings,learning as we go along,do these people pay the local council? Playschools who use the parks for picnics?they are running a business are they not? Football schools? shall I go on? In this day and age I would of thought that someone having the gumption to start their own business should be commended, especially someone who has served their country,rather than kicked in the teeth..... Julie Leitch

6:15pm Sat 19 Jan 13

2shedsjackson says...

Essex Medja wrote:
Hmmm I am thinking of all the businesses I could set up in our parks and I am gratified that the majority of this site are against charges.
.
A burger stall (guaranteed no horsemeat only cat).
Thai chi classes (should be good for a diversity grant).
Art classes (book early for the nude life session).
Drug dealing (Class B only to keep the old bill happy).
Prostitution (my auntie Lily, rates on request).
Dog walking (the going rate is £12-15 per hour). honest Ikid you not.
.
BTW the wind surfing brigade take over a corner of east beach and a chap runs his training business from there. In fact he has a set of keys fronm the council that open the car park barriers.
All the best spots for drug dealers have been taken.
[quote][p][bold]Essex Medja[/bold] wrote: Hmmm I am thinking of all the businesses I could set up in our parks and I am gratified that the majority of this site are against charges. . A burger stall (guaranteed no horsemeat only cat). Thai chi classes (should be good for a diversity grant). Art classes (book early for the nude life session). Drug dealing (Class B only to keep the old bill happy). Prostitution (my auntie Lily, rates on request). Dog walking (the going rate is £12-15 per hour). honest Ikid you not. . BTW the wind surfing brigade take over a corner of east beach and a chap runs his training business from there. In fact he has a set of keys fronm the council that open the car park barriers.[/p][/quote]All the best spots for drug dealers have been taken. 2shedsjackson

9:36am Sun 20 Jan 13

Max Impact says...

The floor of Heathrow is cold and hard, flight was canx on Saturday, but today's is on... However the connecting flight I was booked on went when it was due to depart, no more free seats for six days so it's snowy Southend for me, still the wife and kids are away so it's slouching and fast food heaven for the next five days :-D prehaps I should sign up to a keep fit scheme!
The floor of Heathrow is cold and hard, flight was canx on Saturday, but today's is on... However the connecting flight I was booked on went when it was due to depart, no more free seats for six days so it's snowy Southend for me, still the wife and kids are away so it's slouching and fast food heaven for the next five days :-D prehaps I should sign up to a keep fit scheme! Max Impact

12:05pm Sun 20 Jan 13

stopmoaning1 says...

Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:
If an organisation is putting on a special event, like a fete or festival or concert then yes, charge that organisation. But these Boot camp groups are causing no harm or damage, and they do not prevent others from using those public spaces.

Public parks are called public for a reason. They are paid for by the public through taxation. Charging people for getting off their backsides and getting fit in a public space they have already paid for is plain wrong.
READ THE STORY PROPERLY. It's the BUSINESS that will be charged, the customers already pay a fee to the instructor for the session, they are not paying to use the park, they'd pay for the session where ever it was held. If the instructor had to rent a hall, people would still pay them the fee. By using the park, the instructor is using FOR FREE facilities that you and I are paying for in our Council Tax, but can't use while they are there with their class.
[quote][p][bold]Shoebury_Cyclist[/bold] wrote: If an organisation is putting on a special event, like a fete or festival or concert then yes, charge that organisation. But these Boot camp groups are causing no harm or damage, and they do not prevent others from using those public spaces. Public parks are called public for a reason. They are paid for by the public through taxation. Charging people for getting off their backsides and getting fit in a public space they have already paid for is plain wrong.[/p][/quote]READ THE STORY PROPERLY. It's the BUSINESS that will be charged, the customers already pay a fee to the instructor for the session, they are not paying to use the park, they'd pay for the session where ever it was held. If the instructor had to rent a hall, people would still pay them the fee. By using the park, the instructor is using FOR FREE facilities that you and I are paying for in our Council Tax, but can't use while they are there with their class. stopmoaning1

12:35pm Sun 20 Jan 13

Shoebury_Cyclist says...

stopmoaning1 wrote:
Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:
If an organisation is putting on a special event, like a fete or festival or concert then yes, charge that organisation. But these Boot camp groups are causing no harm or damage, and they do not prevent others from using those public spaces.

Public parks are called public for a reason. They are paid for by the public through taxation. Charging people for getting off their backsides and getting fit in a public space they have already paid for is plain wrong.
READ THE STORY PROPERLY. It's the BUSINESS that will be charged, the customers already pay a fee to the instructor for the session, they are not paying to use the park, they'd pay for the session where ever it was held. If the instructor had to rent a hall, people would still pay them the fee. By using the park, the instructor is using FOR FREE facilities that you and I are paying for in our Council Tax, but can't use while they are there with their class.
If those fees have to be absorbed into the business then people who pay for the service ARE paying to use the park.


How can you not comprehend that?
[quote][p][bold]stopmoaning1[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Shoebury_Cyclist[/bold] wrote: If an organisation is putting on a special event, like a fete or festival or concert then yes, charge that organisation. But these Boot camp groups are causing no harm or damage, and they do not prevent others from using those public spaces. Public parks are called public for a reason. They are paid for by the public through taxation. Charging people for getting off their backsides and getting fit in a public space they have already paid for is plain wrong.[/p][/quote]READ THE STORY PROPERLY. It's the BUSINESS that will be charged, the customers already pay a fee to the instructor for the session, they are not paying to use the park, they'd pay for the session where ever it was held. If the instructor had to rent a hall, people would still pay them the fee. By using the park, the instructor is using FOR FREE facilities that you and I are paying for in our Council Tax, but can't use while they are there with their class.[/p][/quote]If those fees have to be absorbed into the business then people who pay for the service ARE paying to use the park. How can you not comprehend that? Shoebury_Cyclist

12:36pm Sun 20 Jan 13

Shoebury_Cyclist says...

Max Impact wrote:
The floor of Heathrow is cold and hard, flight was canx on Saturday, but today's is on... However the connecting flight I was booked on went when it was due to depart, no more free seats for six days so it's snowy Southend for me, still the wife and kids are away so it's slouching and fast food heaven for the next five days :-D prehaps I should sign up to a keep fit scheme!
And there's the excuse for why Max can't provide photos of his fantasy life.
[quote][p][bold]Max Impact[/bold] wrote: The floor of Heathrow is cold and hard, flight was canx on Saturday, but today's is on... However the connecting flight I was booked on went when it was due to depart, no more free seats for six days so it's snowy Southend for me, still the wife and kids are away so it's slouching and fast food heaven for the next five days :-D prehaps I should sign up to a keep fit scheme![/p][/quote]And there's the excuse for why Max can't provide photos of his fantasy life. Shoebury_Cyclist

3:32pm Sun 20 Jan 13

Max Impact says...

It's the truth and even if I had gone you are in no position to order me to show you my photos, where is the proof you were in the army?
It's the truth and even if I had gone you are in no position to order me to show you my photos, where is the proof you were in the army? Max Impact

6:56pm Sun 20 Jan 13

stopmoaning1 says...

Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:
stopmoaning1 wrote:
Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:
If an organisation is putting on a special event, like a fete or festival or concert then yes, charge that organisation. But these Boot camp groups are causing no harm or damage, and they do not prevent others from using those public spaces.

Public parks are called public for a reason. They are paid for by the public through taxation. Charging people for getting off their backsides and getting fit in a public space they have already paid for is plain wrong.
READ THE STORY PROPERLY. It's the BUSINESS that will be charged, the customers already pay a fee to the instructor for the session, they are not paying to use the park, they'd pay for the session where ever it was held. If the instructor had to rent a hall, people would still pay them the fee. By using the park, the instructor is using FOR FREE facilities that you and I are paying for in our Council Tax, but can't use while they are there with their class.
If those fees have to be absorbed into the business then people who pay for the service ARE paying to use the park.


How can you not comprehend that?
The customers are NOT paying for the park, they are paying for the service. They would pay for the service where ever it was held. Why should the business be allowed to make such a huge profit by using a facility I pay for. Apart from initial outlay for equipment, this is 100% profit. Do they pay tax
[quote][p][bold]Shoebury_Cyclist[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]stopmoaning1[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Shoebury_Cyclist[/bold] wrote: If an organisation is putting on a special event, like a fete or festival or concert then yes, charge that organisation. But these Boot camp groups are causing no harm or damage, and they do not prevent others from using those public spaces. Public parks are called public for a reason. They are paid for by the public through taxation. Charging people for getting off their backsides and getting fit in a public space they have already paid for is plain wrong.[/p][/quote]READ THE STORY PROPERLY. It's the BUSINESS that will be charged, the customers already pay a fee to the instructor for the session, they are not paying to use the park, they'd pay for the session where ever it was held. If the instructor had to rent a hall, people would still pay them the fee. By using the park, the instructor is using FOR FREE facilities that you and I are paying for in our Council Tax, but can't use while they are there with their class.[/p][/quote]If those fees have to be absorbed into the business then people who pay for the service ARE paying to use the park. How can you not comprehend that?[/p][/quote]The customers are NOT paying for the park, they are paying for the service. They would pay for the service where ever it was held. Why should the business be allowed to make such a huge profit by using a facility I pay for. Apart from initial outlay for equipment, this is 100% profit. Do they pay tax stopmoaning1

8:05pm Sun 20 Jan 13

stopmoaning1 says...

sam1ake wrote:
Eric Whim wrote:
Carnabackable wrote:
Max Impact wrote:
Yes they should be charged, they are using public land for their own financial gain, any other business has to pay charges, just because these fitness instructors are not based in a shop does not exempt them.
Quite right, these wanna be soldiers traing the unfit and obese are charging a small fortune, let them now pay for their use of the parks and open spaces.
set up some scales and use a weight related sliding fee scale...
Eric Whim,

'Wannabe soldiers' do your research buddy!! I would love to hear how your qualified to call me a wannabe soldier, Look forward to a response from another arm chair general

:-)
correct spelling of 'you're' please
[quote][p][bold]sam1ake[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Eric Whim[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Carnabackable[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Max Impact[/bold] wrote: Yes they should be charged, they are using public land for their own financial gain, any other business has to pay charges, just because these fitness instructors are not based in a shop does not exempt them.[/p][/quote]Quite right, these wanna be soldiers traing the unfit and obese are charging a small fortune, let them now pay for their use of the parks and open spaces.[/p][/quote]set up some scales and use a weight related sliding fee scale...[/p][/quote]Eric Whim, 'Wannabe soldiers' do your research buddy!! I would love to hear how your qualified to call me a wannabe soldier, Look forward to a response from another arm chair general :-)[/p][/quote]correct spelling of 'you're' please stopmoaning1

8:09pm Sun 20 Jan 13

stopmoaning1 says...

perini wrote:
J_blond wrote:
So if I set up a business, and decide to rent a unit, pay the rent on that, the tax on that, then all the bills that goes with, I expect to do so. But I can just pitch up in a public park for free? If you run a business in a public park you should pay. Don't forget, it's the business owner who is paying not the attendees (although the fees may go up) - £150 for a year is not a lot, just over a tenner a month. With no other overheads (except public liability insurance which I am sure all these companies have) then it's hardly a huge dent in profits. For the gentleman interviewed here, it's just an additional two or three people at his boot camps, or an extra quid or two on the cost of attending.
Good point! If the council is charging for using the public parks then presumably they would be responsible for anyone harming themselves whilst using that paid for facility?
Of course the council will not be responsible for injuries. The 'Company' should have the insurance (bet they don't) Your logic would have the landlord of an office block being responsible for an employee of a company injuring themselves with a stapler
[quote][p][bold]perini[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]J_blond[/bold] wrote: So if I set up a business, and decide to rent a unit, pay the rent on that, the tax on that, then all the bills that goes with, I expect to do so. But I can just pitch up in a public park for free? If you run a business in a public park you should pay. Don't forget, it's the business owner who is paying not the attendees (although the fees may go up) - £150 for a year is not a lot, just over a tenner a month. With no other overheads (except public liability insurance which I am sure all these companies have) then it's hardly a huge dent in profits. For the gentleman interviewed here, it's just an additional two or three people at his boot camps, or an extra quid or two on the cost of attending.[/p][/quote]Good point! If the council is charging for using the public parks then presumably they would be responsible for anyone harming themselves whilst using that paid for facility?[/p][/quote]Of course the council will not be responsible for injuries. The 'Company' should have the insurance (bet they don't) Your logic would have the landlord of an office block being responsible for an employee of a company injuring themselves with a stapler stopmoaning1

10:32am Mon 21 Jan 13

stopmoaning1 says...

sam1ake wrote:
Hi I am the trainer in the picture above, Like i said i would be more than happy to pay the fee's suggested as long as we see where the money is going, We all pay our council taxes for maintenance of these places. If a trainer pays for usage of a park does that mean they have exclusivity to that park etc, How we they manage and control this from someone like myself who has taken a massive leap from leaving the army to try and do this full time to a part time trainer looking to earn some extra cash will the fee's be the same? I for one make sure that after every session I make a sweep of the whole area i have used and pick up and bottles or rubbish that might have been left behind, Also 9/10 picking up rubbish that has been thrown around by members of the public and picking up their dog's mess lol, All we want to know is what the money is for

Sam Lake
Military bootcamps
Sam, I admire what you are trying to do here. You have a very sensible attitude to the proposal, unlike the bandwagon gang who think it’s about your customers ‘paying to use the park’ which of course it’s not as they would pay you where ever you held the sessions.
My thoughts here are similar to yours. Would you have exclusive use of an area if you paid a fee. That WOULD be an issue because I pay my Council Tax and have just as much right to sit and relax in that area as you.
The scheme is unworkable, NOT because your customers would be paying to use the park, but it would be impossible to administer.
You would need to be a registered company, have a formal contract with the council, have a full risk assessment and public liability insurance in place.
There is no simple answer, but people who have missed the point and are ranting about the wrong issue are not helping to resolve it.
Good luck to you
[quote][p][bold]sam1ake[/bold] wrote: Hi I am the trainer in the picture above, Like i said i would be more than happy to pay the fee's suggested as long as we see where the money is going, We all pay our council taxes for maintenance of these places. If a trainer pays for usage of a park does that mean they have exclusivity to that park etc, How we they manage and control this from someone like myself who has taken a massive leap from leaving the army to try and do this full time to a part time trainer looking to earn some extra cash will the fee's be the same? I for one make sure that after every session I make a sweep of the whole area i have used and pick up and bottles or rubbish that might have been left behind, Also 9/10 picking up rubbish that has been thrown around by members of the public and picking up their dog's mess lol, All we want to know is what the money is for Sam Lake Military bootcamps[/p][/quote]Sam, I admire what you are trying to do here. You have a very sensible attitude to the proposal, unlike the bandwagon gang who think it’s about your customers ‘paying to use the park’ which of course it’s not as they would pay you where ever you held the sessions. My thoughts here are similar to yours. Would you have exclusive use of an area if you paid a fee. That WOULD be an issue because I pay my Council Tax and have just as much right to sit and relax in that area as you. The scheme is unworkable, NOT because your customers would be paying to use the park, but it would be impossible to administer. You would need to be a registered company, have a formal contract with the council, have a full risk assessment and public liability insurance in place. There is no simple answer, but people who have missed the point and are ranting about the wrong issue are not helping to resolve it. Good luck to you stopmoaning1

11:28am Mon 21 Jan 13

Max Impact says...

So Castle Point Council want to charge £2500 per year for boot camps to use parks... Anti's do you still think £150 is too much!

Probably...
So Castle Point Council want to charge £2500 per year for boot camps to use parks... Anti's do you still think £150 is too much! Probably... Max Impact

1:03pm Mon 21 Jan 13

jayman says...

Max Impact wrote:
So Castle Point Council want to charge £2500 per year for boot camps to use parks... Anti's do you still think £150 is too much!

Probably...
hmm. castle point council! another Tory administration.

if an instructor charges £50 per session and has two clients per day and works five days a week and works 52 weeks a year that's £26000 before self assessment tax and liability insurance and without taking any holiday and without taking into account the charge to use the park.

however. the instructor (above article) only charges £5 per session. To meet the above forecast he would need to have ten clients per day to make a living.

if you also factor in the fact that the council would need to employ enforcement officers to patrol all the parks, open spaces and beaches in Southend and if you also take into account the fact that council officers have no powers to check on an individuals activity in a public space. The council official would need to stop an individual who is suspected of being a paid instructor, they would need to obtain identification. then they would need to compile a full investigation to which a database would be needed of licensed instructors (there isn't a mandatory one) then a fine could be issued to which a law or by law would need to be referred to for the enactment of the fine which would be within civil law and not criminal law.

i would love to see the first test case in court.. I bet it would bounce out of court at a thousand knots..
[quote][p][bold]Max Impact[/bold] wrote: So Castle Point Council want to charge £2500 per year for boot camps to use parks... Anti's do you still think £150 is too much! Probably...[/p][/quote]hmm. castle point council! another Tory administration. if an instructor charges £50 per session and has two clients per day and works five days a week and works 52 weeks a year that's £26000 before self assessment tax and liability insurance and without taking any holiday and without taking into account the charge to use the park. however. the instructor (above article) only charges £5 per session. To meet the above forecast he would need to have ten clients per day to make a living. if you also factor in the fact that the council would need to employ enforcement officers to patrol all the parks, open spaces and beaches in Southend and if you also take into account the fact that council officers have no powers to check on an individuals activity in a public space. The council official would need to stop an individual who is suspected of being a paid instructor, they would need to obtain identification. then they would need to compile a full investigation to which a database would be needed of licensed instructors (there isn't a mandatory one) then a fine could be issued to which a law or by law would need to be referred to for the enactment of the fine which would be within civil law and not criminal law. i would love to see the first test case in court.. I bet it would bounce out of court at a thousand knots.. jayman

1:14pm Tue 22 Jan 13

MartinLepley says...

I remember the Tories bringing in a very small charge for perscriptions. It was only 50p just to cover the adminstration.

Maybe we should all stay at home andf get fat.
I remember the Tories bringing in a very small charge for perscriptions. It was only 50p just to cover the adminstration. Maybe we should all stay at home andf get fat. MartinLepley

5:29pm Tue 22 Jan 13

halojump says...

sam1ake wrote:
Hi I am the trainer in the picture above, Like i said i would be more than happy to pay the fee's suggested as long as we see where the money is going, We all pay our council taxes for maintenance of these places. If a trainer pays for usage of a park does that mean they have exclusivity to that park etc, How we they manage and control this from someone like myself who has taken a massive leap from leaving the army to try and do this full time to a part time trainer looking to earn some extra cash will the fee's be the same? I for one make sure that after every session I make a sweep of the whole area i have used and pick up and bottles or rubbish that might have been left behind, Also 9/10 picking up rubbish that has been thrown around by members of the public and picking up their dog's mess lol, All we want to know is what the money is for Sam Lake Military bootcamps
sam you raise some good points that need answering by the council as part of an investigation into the feasability of this. This is a low overheads industry which has little or no regulation and many of the boot camp have simular names which adds to confuse possible customers . If this charge meant that trainers using the park had been vetted and had liability insurance then surely it could be of benefit to creditable instructors. Also as this is a cash industry it would be good to have the council letting trainers who are registered for tax be given the permits to use the park removing the part time undeclared cash earners. could the council use this industry and promote health living in the town within this permit system. This shouldnt be about the council making money, it should be about making sure people can still use the parks alongside responsible trained instructors holding their classes.
Good luck with the venture, personally i have done enough tabing to last a life time and only enjoy running to the pub.
[quote][p][bold]sam1ake[/bold] wrote: Hi I am the trainer in the picture above, Like i said i would be more than happy to pay the fee's suggested as long as we see where the money is going, We all pay our council taxes for maintenance of these places. If a trainer pays for usage of a park does that mean they have exclusivity to that park etc, How we they manage and control this from someone like myself who has taken a massive leap from leaving the army to try and do this full time to a part time trainer looking to earn some extra cash will the fee's be the same? I for one make sure that after every session I make a sweep of the whole area i have used and pick up and bottles or rubbish that might have been left behind, Also 9/10 picking up rubbish that has been thrown around by members of the public and picking up their dog's mess lol, All we want to know is what the money is for Sam Lake Military bootcamps[/p][/quote]sam you raise some good points that need answering by the council as part of an investigation into the feasability of this. This is a low overheads industry which has little or no regulation and many of the boot camp have simular names which adds to confuse possible customers . If this charge meant that trainers using the park had been vetted and had liability insurance then surely it could be of benefit to creditable instructors. Also as this is a cash industry it would be good to have the council letting trainers who are registered for tax be given the permits to use the park removing the part time undeclared cash earners. could the council use this industry and promote health living in the town within this permit system. This shouldnt be about the council making money, it should be about making sure people can still use the parks alongside responsible trained instructors holding their classes. Good luck with the venture, personally i have done enough tabing to last a life time and only enjoy running to the pub. halojump

1:45pm Wed 23 Jan 13

BinDipper says...

sam1ake wrote:
Hi I am the trainer in the picture above, Like i said i would be more than happy to pay the fee's suggested as long as we see where the money is going, We all pay our council taxes for maintenance of these places. If a trainer pays for usage of a park does that mean they have exclusivity to that park etc, How we they manage and control this from someone like myself who has taken a massive leap from leaving the army to try and do this full time to a part time trainer looking to earn some extra cash will the fee's be the same? I for one make sure that after every session I make a sweep of the whole area i have used and pick up and bottles or rubbish that might have been left behind, Also 9/10 picking up rubbish that has been thrown around by members of the public and picking up their dog's mess lol, All we want to know is what the money is for

Sam Lake
Military bootcamps
Good for you Sam. There are a group of lads who do their football training over at Southchurch East who never tidy up after them, always leaving banana skins and empty bottles everywhere. I called the council and they said they were powerless unless a park ranger (!!) was on site at the time of the offence. So on that basis I would hang onto your £150 'cos nobody will be collecting.

By the way I'd love to see that guy call you a wannabe soldier to your face.

Best of luck with your business venture.
[quote][p][bold]sam1ake[/bold] wrote: Hi I am the trainer in the picture above, Like i said i would be more than happy to pay the fee's suggested as long as we see where the money is going, We all pay our council taxes for maintenance of these places. If a trainer pays for usage of a park does that mean they have exclusivity to that park etc, How we they manage and control this from someone like myself who has taken a massive leap from leaving the army to try and do this full time to a part time trainer looking to earn some extra cash will the fee's be the same? I for one make sure that after every session I make a sweep of the whole area i have used and pick up and bottles or rubbish that might have been left behind, Also 9/10 picking up rubbish that has been thrown around by members of the public and picking up their dog's mess lol, All we want to know is what the money is for Sam Lake Military bootcamps[/p][/quote]Good for you Sam. There are a group of lads who do their football training over at Southchurch East who never tidy up after them, always leaving banana skins and empty bottles everywhere. I called the council and they said they were powerless unless a park ranger (!!) was on site at the time of the offence. So on that basis I would hang onto your £150 'cos nobody will be collecting. By the way I'd love to see that guy call you a wannabe soldier to your face. Best of luck with your business venture. BinDipper

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