Live: Snow chaos in south Essex (From Echo)

Drove to and from Sussex and didn't see any Gritters

Broadwaywatch wrote:
Drove to and from Sussex and didn't see any Gritters

One went past me on Eastern Esplande about five mins ago, saw a quad one on Victoria Gateway.

Absolutely typical - last week they were all patting themselves on the back for a job well done the last time we had snow and then, after the media reporting snow for the last 5 days, they fail miserably when it does come. The first gritter I saw on ther A13 was at 2100hrs last night - spraying grit on fallen snow and ICE. Far too late - but unfortunately it's what we come to expect from these muppets. P*ss up and brewery springs to mind!

Wow....Westborough School is the first mainstream school in Southend to say it's closed That's got to be a first ? No, wait....

http://www.essexhigh
ways.org/Winter-Main
tenance.aspx.
Have a look where the gritters are.

Dear Echo, can you please re-run the story you posted not so long ago praising the efforts of the council and the gritters

sskk678 wrote:
http://www.essexhigh

ways.org/Winter-Main

tenance.aspx.
Have a look where the gritters are.

None around Benfleet!

Of course this does not show Southend gritters.

just spoke to southend council after my 4WD car slid staight off an untreated road by waitrose roundabout ploughing into a curb taking out most of the front end internals. I was told the main road's were gritted 3 time's apparently but not that one as it's not under their durastiction & i shouldn't be using these roads ??? should i carry my car to the main road next time then ? funny how whilst i was picking up the pieces of my, once pride & joy a gritter was sat on the same road, in traffic creeping the opposite way doing nothing...even though they don't grit that road ??? i've been driving long enough to know that road was NOT treated & in the unlikely event it was, not properly or soon enough. council of the year ? really ?

There seem to be a growing number of complaints about Southend Borough Council (Council of the Year 2012) and their approach to gritting. According to some chinless wonder sat in the Civic Centre Ivory Tower, the grit is 'activated' by vehicles driving over it. This means that it isn't possible for us mere Council Tax payers to realise which roads have already been treated, and we should all be quiet and have wild fantasies over thoughts of how the £137,000 from cancelling the air show will be spent.

NO gritters spotted on London Road until 8.50pm Monday night....bit late by then, there was carnage from 4.00pm,
The A127 was ice(as was A13 Leigh) during rush hour(s) almost impossible to stop if going a bit faster than you should have been.

No gritting done on main roads into Shoeburyness. Ness Road like an ice rink at 7am. Church Road likewise, thought council had to grite what is known as RED Routes.
Did not see any councillors out early morning. Mind you Civic Centre dont start work until tes break. Come on CEO Southend Council do some firing today and employ those who can organize.

No gritting done on main roads into Shoeburyness. Ness Road like an ice rink at 7am. Church Road likewise, thought council had to grite what is known as RED Routes.
Did not see any councillors out early morning. Mind you Civic Centre dont start work until tea break. Come on CEO Southend Council do some firing today and employ those who can organize.

Southend Council once again shambolic, the roads at 5.30 am this morning especially the A13 was like a skating rink, lorries and cars were sliding all over the place, slightly better when going through Castle Point!!!!

Roads around westcliff heading into Leigh last night around 5pm yesterday were nothing short of a joke. Poor lady in front simply slid off the road and up the kerb, I slid pretty bad and luckily managed to avoid her car. Then the car behind followed suit and also nearly crashed. Took an hour to get back.

Then leaving at 6am this morning it was even worse and there were alot of abandoned cars around Chalkwell park. Again, cars sliding all over the place and clearly not gritted. Not looking forward to my drive home tonight thats for sure.

SBC should be ashamed.

Gritters went down my road last night. Was my the only road gritted. Or was everyone going about with there eyes closed?

Well it appears that my comments were a little too outspoken to be featured on the prestigious live feed above - congratulations to everyone else though :)

I have winter tyres on my vehicle. No problem. How do you think they get by in northern Europe and Canada!

Bonham wrote:
I have winter tyres on my vehicle. No problem. How do you think they get by in northern Europe and Canada!

Are they worth the additional expense to sit in traffic barely reaching 5mph because of untreated roads? I appreciate that you will have more control of your car but it won't stop someone sliding into you - unlike Germany, where everyone fits winter tyres.

Hope everyone remembers this 'fantastic effort' from Southend Council come election time

Left my car parked by the kerb,not causing any kind of obstruction, due to black ice everywhere . One hours walk home . Half expecting to find a parking ticket when I get back to it today . How do we stand by law ( British Law not Southend Borough Council Law ) if yellow lines are obscured by snow, anyone know ? I read that Blankety- Blank Tony Cox is washing his hands of any blame , that everything in his power was done correctly , but the Fire Brigade and Bus Companies seem to have a different take on the situation . My heart goes out to Ambulance Patients and their Drivers stuck in the gridlock totally down to you-know-who .......
Nothing stinks as bad as b/s so, over to Southend Council . ............ HOLD YOUR NOSES !

hubby made it into work this morning taking 1 1/2 hours from shoebury to basildon and is now in braintree working. youngest son made it to westcliff for boys which has never closed since his been there (6 years). yet local school cant even open. disgusting

I blame the Tories

Bonham wrote:
I have winter tyres on my vehicle. No problem. How do you think they get by in northern Europe and Canada!

Not in Sweden, Norway or Canada nor in the Alps where the snow is there for months on end.
Can you explain how your winter tyres avoid the traffic build ups or would get you out of trouble on the closed roads in Kent and Sussex last night? Once a road becomes gridlocked it doesn't matter what tyres you have.

John T Pharro wrote:

Bonham wrote:
I have winter tyres on my vehicle. No problem. How do you think they get by in northern Europe and Canada!

Not in Sweden, Norway or Canada nor in the Alps where the snow is there for months on end.
Can you explain how your winter tyres avoid the traffic build ups or would get you out of trouble on the closed roads in Kent and Sussex last night? Once a road becomes gridlocked it doesn't matter what tyres you have.

Ps just on the news Northern France, Belgium and Germany are just as bad as us.

Daughter left mine last night Westcliff to Shoebury 2 and 1/2 hours. Black ice everywhere. Oh and she left mine at 5pm.

Last time it snowed, in January (Sunday 20th), I contacted SBC asking about which had been gritted, after driving from Westcliff to Central London along the A13. It had been noticable that on leaving Southend, the road was clear, despute the sme amount of snow having fallen on Hadleigh, Thundersley & Benfleet as Westcliff, Chalkwell, Leigh etc. The council replied that they had been gritting all weekend, & that they gritted major trunk routes & bus routes, biut when I asked for specific details of their operations that day on the A13, giving my observations & time of travel, they failed to reply - wonder if I'll get any joy this time if I contact them. No sign of A13 having been gritted in Westcliff as I left for work at 4.30am this morning, but congratulations to C2C for ensuring the platforms at Westcliff station were gritted & safe to walk on.

the problem is not so much the elected councillors as they have no real power within the council itself in terms of hiring and firing - they are simply policy makers.

The person to blame is the retard who is in charge of the roads - it ultimately comes down to him/her to say "go out and grit roads" or "stay in and watch TV"

As much as I'd like to blame the councillors for mis-management, it does come down to the retard in charge of the roads.

How do we stand by law ( British Law not Southend Borough Council Law ) if yellow lines are obscured by snow, anyone know

I got done by the spy car outside Leigh Timber having parked, unable to see any yellow lineage.

Some smart @rse on here said I should have gone looking for signs on a pole somewhere.

Expect a ticket.

whats happening on the A127..? looks like a serious incident with 2 Trucks..?

sorry mean't A130 rettendon.....one dead just read on here.

I do not normally resort to criticising especially if not personally affected, and I wasn't affected in any major way but...

It is clear that our Executive Councillor accountable for ensuring roads are made as safe as possible in these weather conditions does not understand even basic concepts of weather, especially around what temperature and wind chill actually mean. Water normally freezes at a temperature of zero Celsius or lower. Wind chill is only a perceived temperature - not an actual temperature - our warm blooded bodies feel it is colder if there is a howling wind blowing. Wind chill does nothing to make ice more likely - only actual temperature does. Actual temperatures did not hit –6.8C. It could be that the wind has had a different affect to make gritting less effective - blown away from the road perhaps. So the excuse of wind chill strikes me as being either naive or a woeful attempt to deceive us.

DogsMessInLeigh wrote:
sorry mean't A130 rettendon.....one dead just read on here.

Well - no sign of any traffic issues on these roads if Echo Traffic report is anything to go by - nuff said - but I hope you are wrong on this.

Snow, Ice the works, can be driven on,as long as you follow some simple rules;
1) start off in second gear
2) leave good distance between vehicles
3)Fit snow socks or chains if you can
4) use minimal brakes - steer out of trouble
A Touareg V6 will get you up the hill....

Gridlock2 wrote:
I do not normally resort to criticising especially if not personally affected, and I wasn't affected in any major way but... It is clear that our Executive Councillor accountable for ensuring roads are made as safe as possible in these weather conditions does not understand even basic concepts of weather, especially around what temperature and wind chill actually mean. Water normally freezes at a temperature of zero Celsius or lower. Wind chill is only a perceived temperature - not an actual temperature - our warm blooded bodies feel it is colder if there is a howling wind blowing. Wind chill does nothing to make ice more likely - only actual temperature does. Actual temperatures did not hit –6.8C. It could be that the wind has had a different affect to make gritting less effective - blown away from the road perhaps. So the excuse of wind chill strikes me as being either naive or a woeful attempt to deceive us.

Lets do a test. Pour some water on a road at 2deg C, blast it with air at -6deg C and see if it freezes. I know where money is.

Dan-Hockley wrote:
the problem is not so much the elected councillors as they have no real power within the council itself in terms of hiring and firing - they are simply policy makers.

The person to blame is the retard who is in charge of the roads - it ultimately comes down to him/her to say "go out and grit roads" or "stay in and watch TV"

As much as I'd like to blame the councillors for mis-management, it does come down to the retard in charge of the roads.

OMG JFC Somebody that knows how the system works!

yet nobody here will take notice as they are all too stupid.

FACT!

Alekhine wrote:

Gridlock2 wrote: I do not normally resort to criticising especially if not personally affected, and I wasn't affected in any major way but... It is clear that our Executive Councillor accountable for ensuring roads are made as safe as possible in these weather conditions does not understand even basic concepts of weather, especially around what temperature and wind chill actually mean. Water normally freezes at a temperature of zero Celsius or lower. Wind chill is only a perceived temperature - not an actual temperature - our warm blooded bodies feel it is colder if there is a howling wind blowing. Wind chill does nothing to make ice more likely - only actual temperature does. Actual temperatures did not hit –6.8C. It could be that the wind has had a different affect to make gritting less effective - blown away from the road perhaps. So the excuse of wind chill strikes me as being either naive or a woeful attempt to deceive us.

Lets do a test. Pour some water on a road at 2deg C, blast it with air at -6deg C and see if it freezes. I know where money is.

If you pour water on the road at 0 degrees C it will freeze. Then, if you blast it with air at 0 degree C, and stand in the way it will seem colder (wind chill factor) It is a perceived temperature not an actual one as we know it's really only 0 degrees C but feels worse.

perini wrote:

Alekhine wrote:

Gridlock2 wrote: I do not normally resort to criticising especially if not personally affected, and I wasn't affected in any major way but... It is clear that our Executive Councillor accountable for ensuring roads are made as safe as possible in these weather conditions does not understand even basic concepts of weather, especially around what temperature and wind chill actually mean. Water normally freezes at a temperature of zero Celsius or lower. Wind chill is only a perceived temperature - not an actual temperature - our warm blooded bodies feel it is colder if there is a howling wind blowing. Wind chill does nothing to make ice more likely - only actual temperature does. Actual temperatures did not hit –6.8C. It could be that the wind has had a different affect to make gritting less effective - blown away from the road perhaps. So the excuse of wind chill strikes me as being either naive or a woeful attempt to deceive us.

Lets do a test. Pour some water on a road at 2deg C, blast it with air at -6deg C and see if it freezes. I know where money is.

If you pour water on the road at 0 degrees C it will freeze. Then, if you blast it with air at 0 degree C, and stand in the way it will seem colder (wind chill factor) It is a perceived temperature not an actual one as we know it's really only 0 degrees C but feels worse.

So now we know, it's you two, pouring water on freezing roads, that are causing all the problems.

Nebs wrote:

perini wrote:

Alekhine wrote:

Gridlock2 wrote: I do not normally resort to criticising especially if not personally affected, and I wasn't affected in any major way but... It is clear that our Executive Councillor accountable for ensuring roads are made as safe as possible in these weather conditions does not understand even basic concepts of weather, especially around what temperature and wind chill actually mean. Water normally freezes at a temperature of zero Celsius or lower. Wind chill is only a perceived temperature - not an actual temperature - our warm blooded bodies feel it is colder if there is a howling wind blowing. Wind chill does nothing to make ice more likely - only actual temperature does. Actual temperatures did not hit –6.8C. It could be that the wind has had a different affect to make gritting less effective - blown away from the road perhaps. So the excuse of wind chill strikes me as being either naive or a woeful attempt to deceive us.

Lets do a test. Pour some water on a road at 2deg C, blast it with air at -6deg C and see if it freezes. I know where money is.

If you pour water on the road at 0 degrees C it will freeze. Then, if you blast it with air at 0 degree C, and stand in the way it will seem colder (wind chill factor) It is a perceived temperature not an actual one as we know it's really only 0 degrees C but feels worse.

So now we know, it's you two, pouring water on freezing roads, that are causing all the problems.

It must be my kids looking for an excuse not to go to school.

perini wrote:

Alekhine wrote:

Gridlock2 wrote: I do not normally resort to criticising especially if not personally affected, and I wasn't affected in any major way but... It is clear that our Executive Councillor accountable for ensuring roads are made as safe as possible in these weather conditions does not understand even basic concepts of weather, especially around what temperature and wind chill actually mean. Water normally freezes at a temperature of zero Celsius or lower. Wind chill is only a perceived temperature - not an actual temperature - our warm blooded bodies feel it is colder if there is a howling wind blowing. Wind chill does nothing to make ice more likely - only actual temperature does. Actual temperatures did not hit –6.8C. It could be that the wind has had a different affect to make gritting less effective - blown away from the road perhaps. So the excuse of wind chill strikes me as being either naive or a woeful attempt to deceive us.

Lets do a test. Pour some water on a road at 2deg C, blast it with air at -6deg C and see if it freezes. I know where money is.

If you pour water on the road at 0 degrees C it will freeze. Then, if you blast it with air at 0 degree C, and stand in the way it will seem colder (wind chill factor) It is a perceived temperature not an actual one as we know it's really only 0 degrees C but feels worse.

Care to explain how an air cooled, or for that matter, a water cooled engine works? Try googling heat convection or forced convection. Fans DO work, i can assure you.

The roads last night around the Southend seafront and the Leigh/Chalkwell area was a joke. Totally surprised there weren't any accidents. Does SBC really expect us to believe they gritted with all these stories? Even the Fire Service are saying they didn't. They seriously screwed up as it is strange that as soon as you got onto Castle Point roads they were perfect (not perfect on Canvey this morning though grrr!).

EssexPerson wrote:
The roads last night around the Southend seafront and the Leigh/Chalkwell area was a joke. Totally surprised there weren't any accidents. Does SBC really expect us to believe they gritted with all these stories? Even the Fire Service are saying they didn't. They seriously screwed up as it is strange that as soon as you got onto Castle Point roads they were perfect (not perfect on Canvey this morning though grrr!).

There was NO gritting all day...until 8pm-ish in Leigh....after the horse had well and truly bolted and took a dump on the Axminster.

a week or so back i saw one go by at night on a Sunday i think it was....no ice or snow around or even wet roads what so ever...strange it was.

Joe Wildman-Clark wrote:

Dan-Hockley wrote: the problem is not so much the elected councillors as they have no real power within the council itself in terms of hiring and firing - they are simply policy makers. The person to blame is the retard who is in charge of the roads - it ultimately comes down to him/her to say "go out and grit roads" or "stay in and watch TV" As much as I'd like to blame the councillors for mis-management, it does come down to the retard in charge of the roads.

OMG JFC Somebody that knows how the system works! yet nobody here will take notice as they are all too stupid. FACT!

Ah, I suppose that must be why I complained to the council, not a councillor then!!!!!

So it's the lack of gritters that is the reason for accidents etc ?

I don't think insurance companies will see it that way.

perini wrote:
Absolutely typical - last week they were all patting themselves on the back for a job well done the last time we had snow and then, after the media reporting snow for the last 5 days, they fail miserably when it does come. The first gritter I saw on ther A13 was at 2100hrs last night - spraying grit on fallen snow and ICE. Far too late - but unfortunately it's what we come to expect from these muppets. P*ss up and brewery springs to mind!

and it's not as if the weather forecasters told us that it wasn't going to happen either.

Driving home last night at midnight was a nightmare, but only from rayleigh onwards to southend, it really seems that southend had it a lot worse than anywhere else local.

Carnabackable wrote:
Snow, Ice the works, can be driven on,as long as you follow some simple rules;
1) start off in second gear
2) leave good distance between vehicles
3)Fit snow socks or chains if you can
4) use minimal brakes - steer out of trouble
A Touareg V6 will get you up the hill....

Snow chains are only any good on hard packed snow or ice. Which we don't tend to get in this part of the country.
You can't use chains on a normal road surface.

A 4x4 with snow tyres is good on snow, but nothing will grip on ice. Which is why you see so many of them involved in accidents.

Not many 4x4 owners bother with snow tyres in the winter.

i asked southend council about gritting the roads and was told they were out early in the day when told them they were wrong i was told i was rude & it wasn't down to them

It must be my kids looking for an excuse not to go to school.

Are they teachers?

Like clockwork, they all started closing.

Alekhine wrote:

perini wrote:

Alekhine wrote:

Gridlock2 wrote: I do not normally resort to criticising especially if not personally affected, and I wasn't affected in any major way but... It is clear that our Executive Councillor accountable for ensuring roads are made as safe as possible in these weather conditions does not understand even basic concepts of weather, especially around what temperature and wind chill actually mean. Water normally freezes at a temperature of zero Celsius or lower. Wind chill is only a perceived temperature - not an actual temperature - our warm blooded bodies feel it is colder if there is a howling wind blowing. Wind chill does nothing to make ice more likely - only actual temperature does. Actual temperatures did not hit –6.8C. It could be that the wind has had a different affect to make gritting less effective - blown away from the road perhaps. So the excuse of wind chill strikes me as being either naive or a woeful attempt to deceive us.

Lets do a test. Pour some water on a road at 2deg C, blast it with air at -6deg C and see if it freezes. I know where money is.

If you pour water on the road at 0 degrees C it will freeze. Then, if you blast it with air at 0 degree C, and stand in the way it will seem colder (wind chill factor) It is a perceived temperature not an actual one as we know it's really only 0 degrees C but feels worse.

Care to explain how an air cooled, or for that matter, a water cooled engine works? Try googling heat convection or forced convection. Fans DO work, i can assure you.

I hope you were not educated in Britain or has our education system really gone that far down the pan?

All fans do is move air (or water in the case of water cooled engines) around so that a better job is done of dissipating heat. But they still need to move the air (or water) over something at a different temperature to work.

Perini is correct. Moving air at zero degrees is still only zero degrees - it does not make it -6.8C - look wind chill up on your shiny touchy feely smart phone Alekhine (or are you Tony Cox)? - which is a good bit smarter than you I should think - it is more educating than using it for Angry Birds.

starduster wrote:
i asked southend council about gritting the roads and was told they were out early in the day when told them they were wrong i was told i was rude & it wasn't down to them

They must of been using the New Stealth Gritters then.

On my way home from work last night around about 10.15pm i was getting to the tescos roundabout and not even going 5mph i had to come to a stop and as i went to stop the car decided to carry on as the road was not gritted at all and i smashed straight into the back of someone, I now have a fair bit of damage to mycar and i am going to have to pay to get this fixed. Does anyone think i can make make a complaint and get some or all the repair to my car back? if so how please.

abarns wrote:
On my way home from work last night around about 10.15pm i was getting to the tescos roundabout and not even going 5mph i had to come to a stop and as i went to stop the car decided to carry on as the road was not gritted at all and i smashed straight into the back of someone, I now have a fair bit of damage to mycar and i am going to have to pay to get this fixed. Does anyone think i can make make a complaint and get some or all the repair to my car back? if so how please.

Why were you driving so close to the car in front that you were unable to stop in time?

abarns wrote:
On my way home from work last night around about 10.15pm i was getting to the tescos roundabout and not even going 5mph i had to come to a stop and as i went to stop the car decided to carry on as the road was not gritted at all and i smashed straight into the back of someone, I now have a fair bit of damage to mycar and i am going to have to pay to get this fixed. Does anyone think i can make make a complaint and get some or all the repair to my car back? if so how please.

Why not sue your (naughty ) car as it did not do as you wanted it to.
best bet is to take some lessons and learn how to drive,,,,,,,,

Warning... irony alert...

Nigel Holdcrofts Blog..

He has changed his font colour to informal blue and has reduced the font size when he is writing content in his blog that may be an omission of guilt or even (heaven forbid) an apology as too why the roads where not gritted on time despite plenty of warning from the met office.

a complete failure of the council..

see for yourself.

http://nigel-holdcro
ft.blogspot.co.uk/20
13/03/difficult-road
-conditions.html

Gridlock2 wrote:

Alekhine wrote:

perini wrote:

Alekhine wrote:

Gridlock2 wrote: I do not normally resort to criticising especially if not personally affected, and I wasn't affected in any major way but... It is clear that our Executive Councillor accountable for ensuring roads are made as safe as possible in these weather conditions does not understand even basic concepts of weather, especially around what temperature and wind chill actually mean. Water normally freezes at a temperature of zero Celsius or lower. Wind chill is only a perceived temperature - not an actual temperature - our warm blooded bodies feel it is colder if there is a howling wind blowing. Wind chill does nothing to make ice more likely - only actual temperature does. Actual temperatures did not hit –6.8C. It could be that the wind has had a different affect to make gritting less effective - blown away from the road perhaps. So the excuse of wind chill strikes me as being either naive or a woeful attempt to deceive us.

Lets do a test. Pour some water on a road at 2deg C, blast it with air at -6deg C and see if it freezes. I know where money is.

If you pour water on the road at 0 degrees C it will freeze. Then, if you blast it with air at 0 degree C, and stand in the way it will seem colder (wind chill factor) It is a perceived temperature not an actual one as we know it's really only 0 degrees C but feels worse.

Care to explain how an air cooled, or for that matter, a water cooled engine works? Try googling heat convection or forced convection. Fans DO work, i can assure you.

I hope you were not educated in Britain or has our education system really gone that far down the pan? All fans do is move air (or water in the case of water cooled engines) around so that a better job is done of dissipating heat. But they still need to move the air (or water) over something at a different temperature to work. Perini is correct. Moving air at zero degrees is still only zero degrees - it does not make it -6.8C - look wind chill up on your shiny touchy feely smart phone Alekhine (or are you Tony Cox)? - which is a good bit smarter than you I should think - it is more educating than using it for Angry Birds.

The point is the effect is real not "perceived". Are you suggesting that the icy wind on Tuesday was the same temperature as the road? Ambient temperatue +2 deg C, windchill - 6 deg C, = real temperature of road exposed to the wind about - 4 deg C . yes, the water would freeze.

Suggest you check your own education before being critical of mine.

http://en.wikipedia.
org/wiki/Wind_chill

Alkehine, I think you are 100% wrong. The air isn't minus 6, but as it blows past you at speed it "feels" like minus 6 (i.e if you were standing in minus 6 temps with no wind) .
The actual temperature was hovering above freezing for most of Monday and dipped below in late afternoon, that is why the roads froze, the wind chill could have been minus 30 but would have had no effect (as water only reacts to physical temperature and has no concept of how cold it feels)

JW - What have i got into, but sorry, you are also wrong.

This is from a Canadian weather science magazine:-
qte

As an arctic air mass lingers over large swaths of the Northeast and Midwest, the National Weather Service has issued wind chill advisories across the region, and the Mount Washington Observatory in New Hampshire recorded a wind chill of minus 46 degrees. What is wind chill, anyway?

Despite what you might hear on a weather report, wind chill isn't actually a measure of how cold the air feels. A wind chill temperature is, rather, a calculation of how cold it would have to be to cause the same rate of heat loss from your skin if there were no wind blowing. Wind chill approximates how cold it feels because the rate of heat loss corresponds with skin temperature, and skin temperature is what our nerves sense.

Wind chill was first measured in 1941, when two explorers, Paul Siple and Charles Passel, spent a long Antarctic winter measuring how long it took water to freeze in plastic containers left outside, hanging in the wind. The stronger the wind, the faster the water would freeze. Using this data, they created the first equation to calculate wind chill. Their original formula, published in 1945, was revised slightly in the intervening years, but was always found, especially by those who lived in very cold places, to be a poor measure of how cold the air actually felt to the skin. In parts of Canada where the temperature regularly fell below minus 40 degrees, for example, people reported that minus-40-degree wind chill felt a lot warmer.

So, in 2001, a gaggle of agencies from the United States and Canada—collectivel
y, the Joint Action Group on Temperature Indices—agreed on a new formula for calculating wind chill and conducted experiments to measure exactly how much heat is lost from human skin in a windy environment. Twelve volunteers donned winter coats and walked on treadmills in a freezing wind tunnel, all while wearing thermal sensors on their faces, inside their mouths, and in their rectums.

The catch with this new model, which is still in use, is that heat loss from skin—known as skin tissue resistance—varies greatly from person to person. Those with thicker skin have greater skin tissue resistance, for example. But high resistance, oddly, puts one at greater risk of frostbite because the skin conducts less heat from inside the body to warm its surface. To be on the safe side, the new model is calibrated to unusually high skin resistance—95th percentile—and therefore overestimates how cold it feels for those with more average skin.
unqte

Please note the THE SRONGER THE WIND THE FASTER THE WATER WOULD FREEZE in the container (without direct reference to the temperature of the air), I assume that all the containers were hanging in the same air. This was my point.

None of the above actually means much or proves anything at all!
how did they control the wind temperature when they hung the containers up?
----
"Despite what you might hear on a weather report, wind chill isn't actually a measure of how cold the air feels. A wind chill temperature is, rather, a calculation of how cold it would have to be to cause the same rate of heat loss from your skin if there were no wind blowing. Wind chill approximates how cold it feels because the rate of heat loss corresponds with skin temperature, and skin temperature is what our nerves sense."
----
So it is how cold it feels after all?

----
"In parts of Canada where the temperature regularly fell below minus 40 degrees, for example, people reported that minus-40-degree wind chill felt a lot warmer."

That rubbish was in a science magazine?

The containers are all hanging in the same air at the same, for want of a better word, "real" air temperature. All the air is all coming from the same scource (the arctic) the speed of the wind itself is just a movement of air. Your buddy got that bit right.
---
So its how cold it feels after all?

No, read it again, its " a calculation of how cold it would have to be to cause the same rate of heat loss...."

--
That rubbish was in a science magazine?

That rubbish is what caused this debate about what is a "perceived" and what is a "real" effect. The body only notices CHANGES in temperature and it can be tricked. Try this, put one hand under the cold tap until cold and the other under the hot tap. Now put both hands in the same bucket of luke warm water. - Hot hand will feel cold while the cold hand will feel hot. - Its the same bucket!

Wind chill (increased airflow) is not a trick, it does have a very real effect on inanimate objects. Heat rises, but when the ambient temperate drops below zero its the top surface of a lake that freezes first not the bottom.