THIS BEGGARS BELIEVE!!!!!

PROTEST!

"Travellers at the unauthorised Dale Farm site, Crays Hill unauthorised, will unveil the Essex County Council-funded log cabin...."

Is this authorised, this log cabin thingy?

Seen it wrote:
"Travellers at the unauthorised Dale Farm site, Crays Hill unauthorised, will unveil the Essex County Council-funded log cabin...." Is this authorised, this log cabin thingy?

Actually it appears that the whole of Crays Hill is unauthorised! Classic Echo clanger.

Of course!

Let's see if this LAVISH buffet meets the standards/costs of southend council's lavish events!

What staggers me, apart from the Echo editing, is the fact that this new place is (apparently) "built without permission"... by The Council.

Does this mean we'll see thousands of our council tax pounds wasted on yet another court case, where the Council attempt to evict themselves??

You couldn't make it up. Welcome to Essex.

This is the first time i am lost for words.

They already have church and school facilities, funded by the taxpayer. They have a whole bl00dy school to themselves fergodsake.

Meetings? What for? They have a team of paid do-gooders doing their bidding for them already. And the school was always used for village meetings, other than the church hall of course. But no, of course, THEY have to have state of the art facilities because they're "protected people".

This is a joke, right?

Sometime soon, what goes around will have to come around. Law of averages says so.

Watch this space.. As soon as this story is published, contact details will be posted. Get your pens and emails ready.

And be ready to let them have it full throttle.

This is taking the p*** and we have to put these people in touch with reality.

Time to unleash the full venom of the law abiding taxpaying public on those responsible.

I am of course talking about WRITTEN PROTESTS, not violence.

But we can make a start by writing to Billericay MP John Baron - email baronj@parliament.uk to register our disgust.

Er – this is April 30th not April 1st

What are the Crays Hill Residents' Association going to do about it then?

I no longer live there but I have a house there and am an Essex County Council taxpayer so it IS my business.

So who has paid for all this - no, don't tell me, the poor bl**dy taxpayer. How is this possible, if it's 'without planning permission'? I thought efforts were being made to evict these unauthorised residents?

I read a letter some while ago about a tragic case, a man who lived in a caravan in a pig farm on green belt land. Foot-and-mouth arrived, pigs all slaughtered, no pig farm, result: man evicted. He died from the effects of being forced to sleep in a car because he 'wasn't entitled to' be rehoused or to live on green belt land with no pig farm. Anyone out there know the case I'm referring to? Poor man.

This log cabin has been built with taxpayers' money on green belt land, without planning permission? Was this on the orders of the unelected regional authority, which seems to call the shots these days? Can nothing be done to stop these abuses?

Human Rights Actthe New labour Fools introduced!!

If a Solicitor is reading this surely there must be an offence committed by ECC for aiding and abetting an unlawful action or something similar.

This is absolutely appalling!!

Do we the payers of tax have no say?

don't get referendum, over euro do you expect to get even thought about a thing like this ....errr no chance

What staggers me, apart from the Echo editing, is the fact that this new place is (apparently) "built without permission"... by The Council.
I don't think it was actually built by the council, the county council helped fund it, but £12k for a community centre?Maybe whoever got it done for that price should go for the sports village contract!Next year when Crays Hill School publishes its attendance figures, which will be lower than ever, you can bet that travellers say that the kids are being taught at the centre ;)

.....attended by a Lib Dem member of the House of Lords, a Catholic priest and race relations boss on Saturday.
Well I hope the race relations 'Boss' goes easy on them and remembers that its only a few that exploit ethnic minorities as slaves.

"Actually it appears that the whole of Crays Hill is unauthorised! Classic Echo clanger"

What do you mean Piano hinges?

Sally wrote:
<b> "Actually it appears that the whole of Crays Hill is unauthorised! Classic Echo clanger"

What do you mean Piano hinges?</b>

I think it means that all the caravans are there illegally. Apparently (correct me if I'm wrong) green belt land was bought for cash, but no planning permission has ever been given for residential development in the green belt. Therefore all the people living there - travellers who apparently don't want to travel - are there illegally. There are some hotshot 'lawyers' who have sussed out every possible loophole, delaying tactic that there is and then invented more, and it goes on and on.

Building a community centre for them like this implies long-term residence. We haven't even got a community centre where I live, on the Anne Boleyn Estate at Rochford, and there are about 700 houses (I should know, having leafletted every one of them in the last week or two!) But hey, what do you expect. We're all English taxpayers who live here, we can't expect to have our basic human rights considered, can we?

Living in the green belt is not allowed if you're a poor guy who loses his livelihood through foot-and-mouth, but if you're a traveller who doesn't want to travel or to go back to Ireland but who wants to make a mess of our English countryside, feel free, be welcome!

You couldn't make this up if you tried. Britain is the laughing stock of Europe. The last thing we shoud be doing is giving taxpayers money to people who contibute nothing and ignore the law. The people involved in this decision should hang their heads in shame.

Come on then Messrs Baron and Buckley, have you nothing to say?

We know you read this board, you must have an opinion, surely!!!!

Your silence is deafening. This is a good opportunity for you to stand up and be counted.

Perhaps its not in your political interests, heh?

Could this be corruption on a scale that exceeds belief. Yes, get your protests to John Baron and government, this is a complete farce and an embezzlement of the tax payers money. I feel almost speechless it is a disgusting waste of money. Let's turn up on Saturday with our protest banners, what a joke.

Make sure you get out and vote today. If you can't be bothered to get off your backsides to make the effort, you can't complain when things like this happen.

Without wishing to take sides, a few things leap out at me from the comments so far:

They have a whole bl00dy school to themselves

Correct me if I’m wrong – and I’m sure someone will! – but isn’t this school solely attended by Traveller children because the local settled parents voluntarily withdrew their kids? An article in the Independent in 2004 appears to show this.

http://www.independe
nt.co.uk/news/educat
ion/education-news/s
chool-where-every-pu
pil-bar-one-is-a-tra
veller-533047.html

They have a team of paid do-gooders

I’d love to have seen the recruitment ad for these jobs! “Wanted – someone to do good, get paid for it, and wind up the Daily Mail readers just by breathing. Must have own passport.” Can anyone shed any light on who this “team” is, what they actually do (beyond do-gooding, whatever that is) and who pays for them? I would like to know more about this.

(Also, since when did doing good become derogatory??!)

pikeys..... scum of the earth who cause nothing but mayhem and unrest where ever they feel free to go. dumping rubbish here there and every where, ripping people off left right and centre and offending my sense of smell because they stink!

What a nice fella you are Dr Bond. I'm sure you smell very fragrant.

£12k for a community centre?Maybe whoever got it done for that price should go for the sports village contract!

Haha, good point! Or maybe even the Olympic stadium. £12K does seem like a very small sum indeed.

all the caravans are there illegally

all the people living there - travellers who apparently don't want to travel - are there illegally

Not true as far as I know – again, do correct me if I’m wrong but many of the “caravans” (not really what they are but never mind) actually do have planning permission. It’s just not the case that every single person living there is doing so illegally.

Come on then Messrs Baron and Buckley, have you nothing to say?

That would be nice wouldn’t it. I thought we elected these people to be accountable to us. Their silence does them no favours.

Make sure you get out and vote today

Best advice on the page so far.


And before I get the usual “you don’t live there so you can’t comment” comebacks, one final quote from above.

I … am an Essex County Council taxpayer so it IS my business

And as an ECC taxpayer it’s my business too.

Anybody wanna buy a cheap laptop ?

rob atkins wrote:
don\'t get referendum, over euro do you expect to get even thought about a thing like this ....errr no chance

We still have the pound, so why would we want a referendum on the euro?

Bob wrote:
Make sure you get out and vote today. If you can\'t be bothered to get off your backsides to make the effort, you can\'t complain when things like this happen.

Also remember when voting that the Essex County Council who have funded the £12K are Tory run as to is Basildon council. It's a local issue that could be handled better.

Build the olympic village there.

Nose Poker Inner contacts:

Clive Mardner, Labour (what a surprise) councillor on Greenwich Council, Town Hall
Wellington St
Woolwich
London SE18 6PW 020 8311 4921 clive.mardner@greenw
ich.gov.uk

This man is also a crony of the Rev Thomas Acton, self appointed gypsy and traveller expert of Greenwich University.

Lord Avebury (LIBDEM peer, what a surprise) Do gooders' champion and the man behind the "services to the community awards" given to Kathleen McCarthy and Richard Sherisan
Email: ericavebury@gmail.co
m
House of Lords
London SW1A 0PW
Web: http://www.ericavebu
ry.blogspot.com
Stalwart do gooder

Father John Glynn Our Lady Of Good Counsel 61 London Road Wickford Essex SS12 0AW Tel: 01268 733219.

ALL THESE DETAILS HAVE BEEN OBTAINED FROM THE INTERNET

These are all cronies, all people who have NEVER sought the views of the wider community and ALL people who live outside the area.

What does that tell you? ALL do gooders live outside the area and know NOTHING of the facts, nor are they interested in seeking them because the truth hurts.

I am writing to all three.

I wish to state that I do not advocate or support the use of violence, threats or intimidation.

Unlike others.

Gary wrote:

Bob wrote: Make sure you get out and vote today. If you can\'t be bothered to get off your backsides to make the effort, you can\'t complain when things like this happen.

Also remember when voting that the Essex County Council who have funded the £12K are Tory run as to is Basildon council. It's a local issue that could be handled better.

Spot on Gary and if you read my above missive, you will see that the LibDems have also got their fingers in this.

Now I am trying to get the name of the bod at Essex CC that approved and wrote the cheque.

It is also worth noting that not only have essex cc wated £12,000 on this project they also held a jolly for the council at Stock Brook Manor this week where one of the closing comments of a speech the person mentioned the work the council were doing for the UNGRATEFUL ESSEX PEOPLE.
nice , we pay their wages and they say this about us

Kim Gandy wrote:
Nose Poker Inner contacts: Clive Mardner, Labour (what a surprise) councillor on Greenwich Council, Town Hall Wellington St Woolwich London SE18 6PW 020 8311 4921 clive.mardner@greenw ich.gov.uk This man is also a crony of the Rev Thomas Acton, self appointed gypsy and traveller expert of Greenwich University. Lord Avebury (LIBDEM peer, what a surprise) Do gooders' champion and the man behind the "services to the community awards" given to Kathleen McCarthy and Richard Sherisan Email: ericavebury@gmail.co m House of Lords London SW1A 0PW Web: http://www.ericavebu ry.blogspot.com Stalwart do gooder Father John Glynn Our Lady Of Good Counsel 61 London Road Wickford Essex SS12 0AW Tel: 01268 733219. ALL THESE DETAILS HAVE BEEN OBTAINED FROM THE INTERNET These are all cronies, all people who have NEVER sought the views of the wider community and ALL people who live outside the area. What does that tell you? ALL do gooders live outside the area and know NOTHING of the facts, nor are they interested in seeking them because the truth hurts. I am writing to all three. I wish to state that I do not advocate or support the use of violence, threats or intimidation. Unlike others.

Interesting stuff there. I'm sure we would all like to see the text of the messages you send to these people expressing your concerns.

I also did some research because of your (strange) statement that "ALL do gooders live outside the area and know NOTHING of the facts, nor are they interested in seeking them".

Thomas Acton, far from being the "self appointed gypsy and traveller expert of Greenwich University" is in fact a Professor there. Not self-appointed, but appointed by the University. Just checking the facts.

Lord Avebury wasn't "behind" the awards you mention, he merely presented them. He did not make the decision on who won the award. Just checking the facts.

These are all cronies, all people who have NEVER sought the views of the wider community and ALL people who live outside the area.

May I ask...

1. Cronies of whom?
2. How do you know with certainty who they have, and have not, spoken to?
3. Is London Road, Wickford "outside the area"? How is this arbitrary "area" drawn up and what qualifications must someone have in order to be deemed allowed to comment?
4. Who elected you as the arbiter of who can comment? You weren't "self-appointed" by any chance?


Very pleased to see you do not support the use of violence, threats or intimidation. Who are these "others" to whom you refer?

I'd just like the facts. After all, according to you, I don't have them.

Many thanks.

piano hinges wrote:

Kim Gandy wrote: Nose Poker Inner contacts: Clive Mardner, Labour (what a surprise) councillor on Greenwich Council, Town Hall Wellington St Woolwich London SE18 6PW 020 8311 4921 clive.mardner@greenw ich.gov.uk This man is also a crony of the Rev Thomas Acton, self appointed gypsy and traveller expert of Greenwich University. Lord Avebury (LIBDEM peer, what a surprise) Do gooders' champion and the man behind the "services to the community awards" given to Kathleen McCarthy and Richard Sherisan Email: ericavebury@gmail.co m House of Lords London SW1A 0PW Web: http://www.ericavebu ry.blogspot.com Stalwart do gooder Father John Glynn Our Lady Of Good Counsel 61 London Road Wickford Essex SS12 0AW Tel: 01268 733219. ALL THESE DETAILS HAVE BEEN OBTAINED FROM THE INTERNET These are all cronies, all people who have NEVER sought the views of the wider community and ALL people who live outside the area. What does that tell you? ALL do gooders live outside the area and know NOTHING of the facts, nor are they interested in seeking them because the truth hurts. I am writing to all three. I wish to state that I do not advocate or support the use of violence, threats or intimidation. Unlike others.

Interesting stuff there. I'm sure we would all like to see the text of the messages you send to these people expressing your concerns. I also did some research because of your (strange) statement that "ALL do gooders live outside the area and know NOTHING of the facts, nor are they interested in seeking them". Thomas Acton, far from being the "self appointed gypsy and traveller expert of Greenwich University" is in fact a Professor there. Not self-appointed, but appointed by the University. Just checking the facts. Lord Avebury wasn't "behind" the awards you mention, he merely presented them. He did not make the decision on who won the award. Just checking the facts.

These are all cronies, all people who have NEVER sought the views of the wider community and ALL people who live outside the area.

May I ask... 1. Cronies of whom? 2. How do you know with certainty who they have, and have not, spoken to? 3. Is London Road, Wickford "outside the area"? How is this arbitrary "area" drawn up and what qualifications must someone have in order to be deemed allowed to comment? 4. Who elected you as the arbiter of who can comment? You weren't "self-appointed" by any chance? Very pleased to see you do not support the use of violence, threats or intimidation. Who are these "others" to whom you refer? I'd just like the facts. After all, according to you, I don't have them. Many thanks.

well said

The lunatics are running the asylum at ECC, and I hope the idiot who approved this gets sacked. How on earth do "travellers" qualify for this sort of funding? It beggars belief, particularly when the council are cutting funding for more important services for elderly people.

I have just spoken to Essex who, utterly embarrassed, are trying to distance themselves from this.

They tell me that the project was funded by the Youth Opportunities Fund, an agency of the Department for Children, Schools and Families.

The YOF is, as you guessed, a quango.

Apparently it is a group of UNINFORMED AND NAIVE young people, who have put this through and CLIVE MARDEN of the Essex Council for Racial Equality that has sponsored it.

Essex CC has merely nodded it through.

There is a school, complete with IT suite, already provided for their community. It is called Crays Hill Primary School. They are enjoying SOLE BENEFITS of it and we are paying for that too.

The children of the village, however, enjoy no such luxuries as a local school or community centre.

They are dispersed to schools around the neighbourhood.

It is being passed off as something for the children when in fact it is to be used for the adults to have their meetings and also as some kind of "chapel". There again, these people enjoy almost exclusive rights to Our Lady of Good Counsel at Wickford.

So what necessity is there for this project anyway?

Other than for outsiders to goad the local taxpayers that is.

Yes, it has all come from CENTRAL GOVERNMENT at the end of the day.

Unbelievable. What next? A community swimming pool, sauna and spa, provided by the local taxpayers - but not for their use , of COURSE.

I am NOT reading any response from Piano Hinges or any other bleeding hearts. I simply cannot be bothered to listen to naive and uninformed people who, it seems, are happy to stump up cash for projects such as this. That people can be so deliberately one sided is beyond my comprehension. I despise fence-sitters and those who agree with certain people whilst deliberately going against others whose views are virtually the same as those they support.

Pathetic.

Furthermore, whilst the Bleeding Hearts have been, no doubt, picking holes in my comments (I haven't read them but that is what rent a leftie mob usually do) I have been making enquiries so I can be INFORMED.

This is why I shall NOT be reading your responses, merely skimming past them.

I cannot bear to read rhetoric and argument from people who are UNINFORMED and also UNSIGNED.

No names = no credibility.

So stop wasting time and space on this forum responding to me.

To all others who live in the real world. I urge you to contact the perpetrators of this, as per my posting above.

The more cages rattled the better. Even if it gets us nowhere, it'll upset the lefties and THAT is worth its weight in gold.

Kim Gandy wrote:
I have just spoken to Essex who, utterly embarrassed, are trying to distance themselves from this. They tell me that the project was funded by the Youth Opportunities Fund, an agency of the Department for Children, Schools and Families. The YOF is, as you guessed, a quango. Apparently it is a group of UNINFORMED AND NAIVE young people, who have put this through and CLIVE MARDEN of the Essex Council for Racial Equality that has sponsored it. Essex CC has merely nodded it through. There is a school, complete with IT suite, already provided for their community. It is called Crays Hill Primary School. They are enjoying SOLE BENEFITS of it and we are paying for that too. The children of the village, however, enjoy no such luxuries as a local school or community centre. They are dispersed to schools around the neighbourhood. It is being passed off as something for the children when in fact it is to be used for the adults to have their meetings and also as some kind of "chapel". There again, these people enjoy almost exclusive rights to Our Lady of Good Counsel at Wickford. So what necessity is there for this project anyway? Other than for outsiders to goad the local taxpayers that is. Yes, it has all come from CENTRAL GOVERNMENT at the end of the day. Unbelievable. What next? A community swimming pool, sauna and spa, provided by the local taxpayers - but not for their use , of COURSE. I am NOT reading any response from Piano Hinges or any other bleeding hearts. I simply cannot be bothered to listen to naive and uninformed people who, it seems, are happy to stump up cash for projects such as this. That people can be so deliberately one sided is beyond my comprehension. I despise fence-sitters and those who agree with certain people whilst deliberately going against others whose views are virtually the same as those they support. Pathetic.

Do you stamp your feet when you get cross?

Kim Gandy wrote:
Furthermore, whilst the Bleeding Hearts have been, no doubt, picking holes in my comments (I haven't read them but that is what rent a leftie mob usually do) I have been making enquiries so I can be INFORMED. This is why I shall NOT be reading your responses, merely skimming past them. I cannot bear to read rhetoric and argument from people who are UNINFORMED and also UNSIGNED. No names = no credibility. So stop wasting time and space on this forum responding to me. To all others who live in the real world. I urge you to contact the perpetrators of this, as per my posting above. The more cages rattled the better. Even if it gets us nowhere, it'll upset the lefties and THAT is worth its weight in gold.

If you only want to reply to people who give their real name, then that would probably amount to two people on here.....Oh well, you can always reply to yourself!!

I have written to John Baron MP, and received the following reply today:


Thank you for your e-mail. John is out and about in Billericay and
District for the local elections, but has asked me to send you a copy of
a Press release he issued today on this matter.

Best wishes,

Tim Davis
Office of John Baron MP


PRESS RELEASE

John Baron MP: Dale Farm Centre confirms Racial Equality Council bias

MP says Racial Equality Council is contributing to community tensions

On hearing the news that Essex Racial Equality Council has sponsored the building of a Community Centre on the illegal traveller site at Dale Farm using Government funds, John Baron MP said:

"The fact that the Racial Equality Council has sponsored a Community Centre on an illegal traveller site clearly shows a bias which discriminates against the law-abiding majority. The Equality Council should promote equality and fairness for all. Instead, by backing this centre it has contributed to community tensions."

"I have already called for Lottery funding to be withdrawn from this group because of a previous incident. Traveller bias should not be funded by the public. I will also be writing to the Lottery about this."

"I have questioned Essex County Council as to why the Equality Council was allowed access to Government funds. My understanding is that it was the duty of the Equality Council as the sponsoring organisation to ensure that any project conformed with planning regulations and Council guidelines."

I have also written to my own MP, James Duddridge and await his reply.

Kim Gandy wrote:
Furthermore, whilst the Bleeding Hearts have been, no doubt, picking holes in my comments (I haven't read them but that is what rent a leftie mob usually do) I have been making enquiries so I can be INFORMED. This is why I shall NOT be reading your responses, merely skimming past them. I cannot bear to read rhetoric and argument from people who are UNINFORMED and also UNSIGNED. No names = no credibility. So stop wasting time and space on this forum responding to me. To all others who live in the real world. I urge you to contact the perpetrators of this, as per my posting above. The more cages rattled the better. Even if it gets us nowhere, it'll upset the lefties and THAT is worth its weight in gold.

My God you have a lot of spare time.... Ever thought of getting a hobby?

I am totally appalled by this funding its absolute disgrace! and total waste of tax payers hard earn money - we should all direct our outrage/comments/con
cerns to the Essex Racial Equality Council as they are the one solely responsible for this funding details below:

Essex Racial Equality Council
Lower Ground Floor
Civic Centre
Victoria Avenue
Southend on Sea
Essex
SS2 6EP

web: http://www.essexrec.
org.uk/
Tel/Fax: 01702 333351
E-mail: southend@essex-rec.c
o.uk

Kim Gandy wrote:
I have just spoken to Essex who, utterly embarrassed, are trying to distance themselves from this.

They tell me that the project was funded by the Youth Opportunities Fund, an agency of the Department for Children, Schools and Families.

The YOF is, as you guessed, a quango.

Apparently it is a group of UNINFORMED AND NAIVE young people, who have put this through and CLIVE MARDEN of the Essex Council for Racial Equality that has sponsored it.

Essex CC has merely nodded it through.

There is a school, complete with IT suite, already provided for their community. It is called Crays Hill Primary School. They are enjoying SOLE BENEFITS of it and we are paying for that too.

The children of the village, however, enjoy no such luxuries as a local school or community centre.

They are dispersed to schools around the neighbourhood.

It is being passed off as something for the children when in fact it is to be used for the adults to have their meetings and also as some kind of "chapel". There again, these people enjoy almost exclusive rights to Our Lady of Good Counsel at Wickford.

So what necessity is there for this project anyway?

Other than for outsiders to goad the local taxpayers that is.

Yes, it has all come from CENTRAL GOVERNMENT at the end of the day.

Unbelievable. What next? A community swimming pool, sauna and spa, provided by the local taxpayers - but not for their use , of COURSE.

I am NOT reading any response from Piano Hinges or any other bleeding hearts. I simply cannot be bothered to listen to naive and uninformed people who, it seems, are happy to stump up cash for projects such as this. That people can be so deliberately one sided is beyond my comprehension. I despise fence-sitters and those who agree with certain people whilst deliberately going against others whose views are virtually the same as those they support.

Pathetic.

Heh Kimbo, I nearly always support your rants because, underlying, there is the knowledge that you have 'walked the walk' re the 'little Tinker' issue.

However, I do not agree with yr criticsm of Mr Hinges. In fact, he is one of the more 'balanced' contributors on here.

There are some yoghourt licking half-wits out there who appear to ignore the uneven playing field but I do think Mr Hinges represents the voice of reason.

As an aspiring Politician, your job is to convince and inspire, not bludgeon!

Kim Gandy wrote:
Furthermore, whilst the Bleeding Hearts have been, no doubt, picking holes in my comments (I haven't read them but that is what rent a leftie mob usually do) I have been making enquiries so I can be INFORMED. This is why I shall NOT be reading your responses, merely skimming past them. I cannot bear to read rhetoric and argument from people who are UNINFORMED and also UNSIGNED. No names = no credibility. So stop wasting time and space on this forum responding to me. To all others who live in the real world. I urge you to contact the perpetrators of this, as per my posting above. The more cages rattled the better. Even if it gets us nowhere, it'll upset the lefties and THAT is worth its weight in gold.

For anyone that is remotely interested in what Kim Gandy says and posts on thise website just make up a name if you don't want to post your real one!! It really is a stuck record with you Kim isn't it?? All for opinions and stuff but it is getting so boring with Kim now!! I much prefer the days of when Evilc was commenting and a few others that really made me laugh!!

Disgraceful comments from people who think they are above the rest.

Robbie wrote:
It is also worth noting that not only have essex cc wated £12,000 on this project they also held a jolly for the council at Stock Brook Manor this week where one of the closing comments of a speech the person mentioned the work the council were doing for the UNGRATEFUL ESSEX PEOPLE.
nice , we pay their wages and they say this about us

It is not only ECC that uses these outside facilities. Basildon Council use the other well known Stock hotel for their meetings.

But don't worry, it's all paid for from our council tax, I suspect.

Perhaps it helps the decision making process not to be utilizing normal council premises.

What a suprise.

More money going to the travellers who dont deserve it!

I am saddened, but not surprised, to read the intolerant response from Kim Gandy. Particularly as she is a (self-proclaimed) expert on Dale Farm, and Travellers in general. Nevertheless, for the benefit of those of us who haven't buried our heads in the sand, some comments if I may.

Apparently it is a group of UNINFORMED AND NAIVE young people, who have put this through and CLIVE MARDEN of the Essex Council for Racial Equality that has sponsored it.

You say “apparently” – according to whom, please? Is this just your own opinion by any chance?

So Clive Marden is now in Essex – earlier on today he was in Greenwich and had a slightly different name. I hope you’re not spamming the wrong councillors! That would be annoying. Not to mention that you got your facts wrong.

I am NOT reading any response from Piano Hinges or any other bleeding hearts. I simply cannot be bothered to listen to naive and uninformed people who, it seems, are happy to stump up cash for projects such as this. That people can be so deliberately one sided is beyond my comprehension. I despise fence-sitters and those who agree with certain people whilst deliberately going against others whose views are virtually the same as those they support.

Pathetic.

I should have thought it was more “pathetic” to not only deliberately ignore anything that might be inconvenient to your dogma, but then to write an essay about it! You castigate people like me for not knowing the facts, yet when asked to present the facts you just put your fingers in your ears and shout “LA LA LA”. A mite childish don’t you think? Or do you just not have answers to valid questions?

I have been making enquiries so I can be INFORMED.

Me too. And I didn't use RANDOM CAPITALS while I was going about it. Perhaps you can answer my queries please, so that I can be as INFORMED as you.

I cannot bear to read rhetoric and argument from people who are UNINFORMED

Since you don’t know me, I can only infer that you have assumed I am uninformed. You don’t even read my posts, apparently, so how can you know this? This wouldn't be a sad attempt to discredit my views by making ad hominem attacks would it?

May I remind you of the definition of bigot - "One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ."

I can see the BNP getting a few more votes because of this.

A day before local elections probably wasn't the best day to announce this.

Now where's Basil Brush when you need him?

Knobby, your comments are appreciated. Many thanks.

I wonder if KG has a personal issue with me actually. I've noticed a pattern lately - for example on the story entitled "Council boss pans pay demand as too costly" where there was a bizarre attack apparently directed at me. Very strange.

I don't mind too much of course, seeing the sort of treatment she dishes out to everyone else, but it does concern me slightly as there do appear to be some worrying character flaws.

In spite of all that I value the fact that people like Kim can state their opinion on here, although I do admit I'd prefer them to be marginally less abusive. It doesn't look good.

Such a shame. The serious issue of taxpayers' money being used to encourage law-breaking, totally sidetracked by posters' petty name calling and character assassination.

Those at Dale Farm must be laughing into their beer (that WE are ALL paying for) at us.

The Vicar wrote:
I can see the BNP getting a few more votes because of this. A day before local elections probably wasn't the best day to announce this. Now where's Basil Brush when you need him?

Your round Walby

piano hinges wrote:
Knobby, your comments are appreciated. Many thanks. I wonder if KG has a personal issue with me actually. I've noticed a pattern lately - for example on the story entitled "Council boss pans pay demand as too costly" where there was a bizarre attack apparently directed at me. Very strange. I don't mind too much of course, seeing the sort of treatment she dishes out to everyone else, but it does concern me slightly as there do appear to be some worrying character flaws. In spite of all that I value the fact that people like Kim can state their opinion on here, although I do admit I'd prefer them to be marginally less abusive. It doesn't look good.

Well they say opposites attract.

Perhaps a romantic caravan holiday beckons?

I HAVE to step in here and correct Kim Gandy - although (yawn, heard it all before) she definitely, most positively WON'T be back to read or respond to people that don't put their real names, ie above you wrote:

"No names = no credibility."

As Kim is keen on FACTS and RESEARCH i thought i'd do a quick 5 minute search on her, after all she is hoping to get voted in today, she's made that much clear...

HOWEVER, from my quick RESEARCH I find the following that SHE has written:

Weds 12 March - Echo:

"Other than that I hate, loathe and detest this government and wish somebody would stick them all on an island with the politically correct brigade and let me press the nuke button."

Mmmmm, does this contradict what you said above, ie "I wish to state that I do not advocate or support the use of violence, threats or intimidation. Unlike others". Which one of those statements is FACT Kim?

Same day you RESPONDED to "The Vicar" without vitriol. And yet, unless that is his REAL name (and where's a location??) you'd be contradicting yourself AGAIN.

Weds 9th April: YOU quoted "Darren" - no location or surname - but responded with
"This man has it taped!" Another example of contradiction.

7 April 2008 - Kim Gandy posts on the "this is LINCOLNSHIRE" website - another lengthy rant with this comment in it:
"I work with elderly people in a care home, most of whom took part in saving this country from the tyranny of dictators" AND " I live in the southeast and my life has been affected by travellers and other economic migrants, FIRST HAND, so much so that I have had to relocate, my relationships and my health have suffered, as has my income"

- would the economic migrants be the ones you claim to WORK with now??? You end the post with "with a government that is being bankrolled by Muslim businessmen."
is that another FACT Ms Gandy???? And WHY did you feel able to post on a Lincolnshire website/forum when, according to you, you'd have NO authority to do this and NO experience either!

20 April 08 - you quoted and REPLIED to "midnight warrior". Do you believe that this is their REAL name Kim?

Sorry to go on here but I really think people like YOU need to look in the mirror now and again - WHAT sort of politician will you be Kim? JUST LIKE ALL THE REST THAT YOU COMPLAIN ABOUT?

This is my first "rant" on the Echo - apologies to other posters but, due to people like Gandy I couldn't help myself!

Of course, like EVERY other politician, we'll never get answers out of her - she's not prepared to listen to voters who might disagree with her (lefties, sandal wearing do-gooders - ie jesus!) - if she could LISTEN and take note now and again then she might have got more voters than she will.










"

Why do I work hard, pay my way and uphold the law?

How about the positive side of this, James Dasinger, for all his faults, is prepared to educate these kids and give them IT skills, I can't help thinking that if the kids attended school they would get greater educational opportunities, but they tend not to go to school, so educating kids on site is surely a step in the right direction

Vernon,

Why should we (at our expense) educate these kids? We have a educational system in place commonly known as schools but the majority do not attend and the ones that do are disruptive? - Their parents/family do not contribute anything to society by not paying taxes etc. Again the majority sponge of the state or work illegally shall I go on? Step in the right direction please what planet are you on?. These so called travellers are mocking you and I and are reaping the benefits!

Hazel Blears, Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government deemed, at the latest public inquiries that Dale Farm was "unsuitable" as a gypsy/traveller site and that the travellers "should not remain" - and that's coming from a Labour minister.

Right, unlike some of the leftie twits gibbering away here (once again I speedily skimmed down to the bottom but noticed the usual dissenters briefly), I am off to the polling station.

Unlike some of these individuals, I do not have much time to spend here. I come here on days off and in spare time and I TYPE FAST. I can knock one of these postings out in a few short minutes.

I have children, a responsible job, volunteer work and am standing for election.

Whether or not I get voted in at least I can say I stood up to be counted, in public and under MY OWN NAME and not hiding on here behind various pseudonyms making uninformed comments.

To those of you here who, despite sharing my views, do not get attacked, for reasons best known to the left wing liberal loony alter ego on here, I leave you with the contact details above, with which to make your complaints.

Unlike the loopy loony lefties, I am actually informed and experienced in this subject.

Mark wrote:
Vernon, Why should we (at our expense) educate these kids? We have a educational system in place commonly known as schools but the majority do not attend and the ones that do are disruptive? - Their parents/family do not contribute anything to society by not paying taxes etc. Again the majority sponge of the state or work illegally shall I go on? Step in the right direction please what planet are you on?. These so called travellers are mocking you and I and are reaping the benefits!

There is a community centre down the road from me, I'm sure it cost a lot more than 12K, and a lot of the locals are benefit taking,baby making chip pan families, who also contribute nothing to their environment.Its just equality at work

piano hinges wrote:
Knobby, your comments are appreciated. Many thanks.

I wonder if KG has a personal issue with me actually. I've noticed a pattern lately - for example on the story entitled "Council boss pans pay demand as too costly" where there was a bizarre attack apparently directed at me. Very strange.

I don't mind too much of course, seeing the sort of treatment she dishes out to everyone else, but it does concern me slightly as there do appear to be some worrying character flaws.

In spite of all that I value the fact that people like Kim can state their opinion on here, although I do admit I'd prefer them to be marginally less abusive. It doesn't look good.

To know her is not to love her but, she has been personally involved with these 'little tinkers' (aka - anti-social scum)for some considerable time now and I believe she just wants justice and the same rights for all. Not a bad thing, I feel.

Unfortunately, her passion sometimes overcomes her.

I'm orf to vote and hopefully give someone a bloody nose. Have a good day.

How about the positive side of this, James Dasinger, for all his faults, is prepared to educate these kids and give them IT skills

They have to learn to clone cards and still peoples identity from somewhere! :P
The facts are there is a big case approaching which will determine if they are there illegially or not and to unauthorised work like this shows a certain amount of comtempt to the wishes of the general tax payer.

Surely it would of been more prudent to wait 6 months till the siuation is sorted and they know one way or the other that they can stay. Doing unauthorised work like this is a total waste of money.

Of course that being said, if we did anything like this we would be demanded by the council to rip it down. Never seems to happen there though does it.

Vernon, I applaud you.

I do hope that's your REAL name and LOCATION by the way ;-) otherwise you'll be accused of not actually living on Canvey and therefore not able to comment on OTHER members of our community doing the same or most probably worse when it comes to draining the tax-payer.

Kim - you "protest" FAR too much. Can you confirm that you DON'T read lefty witterings... just so we know it's FACTS - and WHY oh WHY have you not answered anyone's questions on here regarding FACTS?

The only thing that'll make you a "good" politician is your ability to avoid answering simple and direct questions.

By the way, do you actually have time to sleep? All this "two jobs to support my kids" and "voluntary" work and your posts on here, letters to the Echo, posting in LINCOLNSHIRE, photos published in the Echo etc just makes me wonder when you actually sleep? ;-)

By the way, I was quite "up" for voting English Democrats as Margaret Stoll was canvassing in her car last weekend in my area. Now I've read your latest posts the English Democrats are going to be one party I WON'T be voting for.

Cheers for that, at least.

Vernon wrote:
How about the positive side of this, James Dasinger, for all his faults, is prepared to educate these kids and give them IT skills, I can\'t help thinking that if the kids attended school they would get greater educational opportunities, but they tend not to go to school, so educating kids on site is surely a step in the right direction

I agree. And I would add that having an education will make these kids less likely to turn to crime, so we all win.

Mark of Pitsea doesn't believe we should be paying to educate them, and he's entitled to that view. Personally I find it harsh to punish the children for something their parents may have done. I guess that makes me a "loopy loony leftie" as well as a "do-gooder" and all the other things too tiresome to list! :)

Kim Gandy, sorry to say but your arrogance is staggering. I can only assume you pay as much attention to the views of your potential electorate. No doubt the results tomorrow will bear this out. After all, even your London Mayoral candidate has withdrawn from the election due to incompetence within the party!

Whatever a "left wing liberal loony alter ego" may be - other than a surfeit of adjectives - at least I don't claim "I do not have much time to spend here" while having already posted two long rants at three in the morning :

http://www.echo-news

.co.uk/news/grassroo

tsnews/display.var.2

196228.0.in_honour_o

f_st_george.php

More hypocrisy? That would be a shame. Especially in a politician.

In the end it matters little what you know, or profess to know, if you belittle all those you disagree with and have such an obviously intolerant agenda.

Vernon wrote:
How about the positive side of this, James Dasinger, for all his faults, is prepared to educate these kids and give them IT skills, I can't help thinking that if the kids attended school they would get greater educational opportunities, but they tend not to go to school, so educating kids on site is surely a step in the right direction

What is wrong with the perfectly good school half a mile up the road from Dale farm?

I'll tell you what's wrong with it, the benefit scroungers of Dale Farm won't get given £12,000 of taxpayer's money to send their kids there.

I wonder who got paid for building this 'community centre'?

Answers on postcards please to: Paddy the Builder (brother of Terry the Tree Surgeon and Micky the tarmac layer), c/o James Dasinger, Dale Farm.

Vernon wrote:

Mark wrote: Vernon, Why should we (at our expense) educate these kids? We have a educational system in place commonly known as schools but the majority do not attend and the ones that do are disruptive? - Their parents/family do not contribute anything to society by not paying taxes etc. Again the majority sponge of the state or work illegally shall I go on? Step in the right direction please what planet are you on?. These so called travellers are mocking you and I and are reaping the benefits!

There is a community centre down the road from me, I\'m sure it cost a lot more than 12K, and a lot of the locals are benefit taking,baby making chip pan families, who also contribute nothing to their environment.Its just equality at work

Vernon,

You really are from a different planet? - The community centre down the road from you was built with approved planning permission by the local council and can be used by all the local community employed, retired, disabled or people currently living on state benefits! You can not say the same for the proposed log cabin at Dale Farm. Is this open to everyone in the area or traveller exclusive? How long do you really think those laptops will remain in place?. Knowing the travellers as I do, I bet they will all be nicked and sold by Sunday!

Andrew - do be careful, Kim Gandy reckons that, unless you live in the area you're unable to comment! Oh, and you haven't put your full name so she'd say you had no authority posting at all! ;-)

Personally I thought Vernon's comment made perfect sense. Perhaps he's becoming a leftie, as I apparently am. :)

Seen it, I note your comments on the EDP. Margaret Stoll is also running in my ward and I'm still seriously considering lending her my vote. One bad apple doesn't tarnish the whole barrel after all, and I see nothing nasty about Margaret that would persuade me not to vote for her.

Mark (Pitsea), you say "I bet they will all be nicked and sold by Sunday". I'll take that bet. I'll even give you 2/1 against.

Mark of Pitsea doesn't believe we should be paying to educate them

**** right I don't piano hinges! we already pay for Schools in the local area but they chose not to attend - why should the travelling community get extra preferences/funding?

I honestly think that comments from people like Mark would only ENCOURAGE traveller kids to stay away from school, with views like that about them/their parents.

I pity them if they ever get the IT skills needed to access these Echo pages and stuff that was written about them.

Burning in caravans was one I won't forget.

Just to answer Vernon first, by law if a parent keeps their kids from going to school or let them truant I believe they can get fined or sent to prison. So what makes the traveller parents different in this respect when their kids do not attend school. There is nothing positive about that.

In regards to the comments exchanged, I agree with a lot of points by Ms Gandy but Piano Hinges has got a lot of good points. I think Kim on this occasion should take the points on board instead of being rude. There is a certain amount of joviality in it.

Its all fine us all going on about emailing one politician, councillor or another but it is unlikely to achieve anything.

There is a better alternative. Travellers are only a problem now compared to years ago because there is a large group of them so they are a majority rather than a minority now and with a large group you get larger powers. How about setting up some sort of group of disgruntled Essex taxpayers via a website, blog etc. and decide not to pay council taxes. If you get a big enough group, the council will have to listen as it will be far too time consuming for the council to chase everyone individually. If you want to be listened to, withdraw the councils funding by not giving it to them.

Mark of Pitsea doesn't believe we should be paying to educate them

**** right I don't! we already pay for Schools in the local area but they chose not to attend - why should the travelling community get extra preferences/funding?


Yes I take your bet and money at 2/1

Good man Mark, see you back here on Monday, where I will glady pass you instructions on paying me your stake money. How much did you have in mind?

As this is taxpayers' money, from Essex County Council, and as I am an Essex resident who, though now living in Shoeburyness, lived in Wickford for 38 years and still have family living in Wickford. I have EVERY right to comment on this issue.

I don't see why Basildon Council has had such difficulty moving them. When they turn up here in Southend they are gone within six days or so.

Seen it wrote:
I honestly think that comments from people like Mark would only ENCOURAGE traveller kids to stay away from school, with views like that about them/their parents. I pity them if they ever get the IT skills needed to access these Echo pages and stuff that was written about them. Burning in caravans was one I won't forget.

Are you saying my views on the childrens parents are untrue? Are you saying traveller parents DO contribute to society, DO pay taxes? care to elaborate?

piano hinges if you're taking bets now can you please also run a sweepstake on what kim gandys next excuse will be for not answering your questions

isnt she supposed to be working today theres an election on

Andrew wrote:
As this is taxpayers' money, from Essex County Council, and as I am an Essex resident who, though now living in Shoeburyness, lived in Wickford for 38 years and still have family living in Wickford. I have EVERY right to comment on this issue. I don't see why Basildon Council has had such difficulty moving them. When they turn up here in Southend they are gone within six days or so.

You certainly do have every right to comment - irrespective of your Wickford-based kin.

Only one person on here is seeking to censor others' views though, had you noticed?

Keep posting mate I like reading your opinions - even the ones I don't agree with. :)

Okay Mark, seeing as you asked....

September last year, Ofsted ranked Crays Hill Primary School as "outstanding" in one of the seven categories on which it was assessed and "above average" in five.

The school is now attended mostly by travellers.

THIS is because the "locals" took their children OUT of the school!

Richard Sheridan is, I believe, a school governor at Crays Hill and, according to the Echo in March of THIS year "THE number of pupils on the roll at Crays Hill Primary School has almost doubled in a year to 96".

It was the locals that made Crays Hill School a "traveller exclusive" - your words above.

You also state "Knowing the travellers as I do, I bet they will all be nicked and sold by Sunday!"

Yep, I'm saying that SOME traveller parents DO contribute to society, DO even pay taxes.

What YOU are saying above is that the traveller parents "you know" are likely to have stolen lap-tops by Sunday.

Now, YOU elaborate please.... elaborate and tell me how you think your comments will HELP integration?

Seen it wrote:
Okay Mark, seeing as you asked.... September last year, Ofsted ranked Crays Hill Primary School as "outstanding" in one of the seven categories on which it was assessed and "above average" in five. The school is now attended mostly by travellers. THIS is because the "locals" took their children OUT of the school! Richard Sheridan is, I believe, a school governor at Crays Hill and, according to the Echo in March of THIS year "THE number of pupils on the roll at Crays Hill Primary School has almost doubled in a year to 96". It was the locals that made Crays Hill School a "traveller exclusive" - your words above. You also state "Knowing the travellers as I do, I bet they will all be nicked and sold by Sunday!" Yep, I'm saying that SOME traveller parents DO contribute to society, DO even pay taxes. What YOU are saying above is that the traveller parents "you know" are likely to have stolen lap-tops by Sunday. Now, YOU elaborate please.... elaborate and tell me how you think your comments will HELP integration?

You sound like The Vicar..

I'm really not, although I wish he would post more.

And, to Andrew, I really wasn't saying that you shouldn't post, not at all, I was just reiterating what Gandy tells everyone about ONLY commenting if you live in the area - although as you used to live in Wickford like she used to, then I'm sure she'd "positively discriminate" on this occasion! ;-)

So how much do we Taxpayers spend on rehabilitation on drugs for junkies,How much do we spend on Social Services? how much do we spend on A & E services on a friday night cause of lager loughts, How much do we spend on youth prisons for TV's playstations etc, How much does the taxpayer have to pay to house and feed the unemployed scrot who lives to shop at Pisea Market and has so many children with different surnames that even she gets confused. How much does it cost to rehouse the peadaphile or criminal back into the community. I bet it's more then £12,000..Like someone said what goes around comes around. English people have tried to divide and rule for centuries, now it's time for other nations to take control...Good luck to the travellors....

Kim, I do hope you come back on here and comment again - even if you do pretend not to read other comments.

Not to do so - yet again - would make your statements and insults seem even more empty and groundless.

Remember the site guidelines about not posting anything "abusive" or "defamatory"?

How does that reconcile with your remarks toward one poster (who had not mentioned you at all) on the story "Robber traps disabled man in boot" for example?

You look like a bully there, surely you have something to say about that? The throwaway remark about mental health issues was particularly tasteless in my opinion.

How about the nasty comments ("spineless" etc) in "Travellers backed by law reform group"? No comment again? Surely any further silence would just incriminate you even more.

I didn't have long to look around the site so these are only recent examples. Mind you it doesn't take long before you can find Kim Gandy being abusive on this site, sadly.

You really should try to explain yourself Kim, or people will only be able to reach the obvious conclusion....

In the meantime it just reinforces the correctness in Andrew's comment above:

Such a shame. The serious issue of taxpayers' money being used to encourage law-breaking, totally sidetracked by posters' petty name calling and character assassination.

Those at Dale Farm must be laughing into their beer (that WE are ALL paying for) at us.

Your call Kim.

Source: Telegraph

Crays Hill was once a thriving village primary school with 160 pupils, rising standards and a bright future. Two weeks ago, however, the last local child was removed. The 50 pupils who remain - with only 30 attending regularly - are the children of gipsies, who have set up home in the village illegally.

In two years the popular school, which has served the village near Billericay in Essex for more than 80 years, has become known as the "pikey primary".

The children are from an illegal travellers' site two miles away. The green belt land, bought from a farmer two years ago, is occupied by more than 500 mostly Irish families.

The site has grown from 12 families on a licensed plot to a sprawling estate - built without planning permission.

As more gipsy children joined Crays Hill school, local families began taking their children out, citing falling standards. It started as a trickle then increased to a torrent, with families driving their children to schools in nearby Wickford and Billericay.

The exodus was accelerated in April, when Sarah Gallagher, the head teacher, and 10 governors resigned because of falling numbers and fears about future funding. At half-term two weeks ago the last child from the village left. Essex education officials claim that there is one non-gipsy child at the school, but admit that he or she comes from outside Crays Hill. The gipsies are orginally from Ireland.

What remains is a de facto travellers' school, nestled in the middle of a resentful village of 2,000, many of whom say that its taxpayer-funded facilities are being hijacked by people who contribute nothing.

Last week, as a handful of pupils clambered on to the swings in the once bustling playground, anger was mounting among villagers over the threat to their previously quiet, semi-rural life. The village, three miles from Billericay and 25 miles from the M25, is barely more than a long main street, lined with detached houses, a local shop and a couple of pubs.

Kim Gandy, a local parent who moved her six-year-old son from the school in February, spoke of her sorrow at what had happened to her "dream" school.

She said that she had removed her son because she was worried about his education, not because she was prejudiced. "Accusations of racism are totally out of order," she said. "We had no problem with the English travellers who have lived here for years.

"I am an open-minded, free-thinking kind of person. I believe in live and let live, as long as people co-operate - but the new travellers don't. The law does not seem to apply to them when it comes to council tax, road tax or planning permission. It is the same with education. They stop their children going to school after the age of 11 and keep the younger ones off school for no reason. Yet nothing happens to them - none is being punished for condoning truancy."

Mrs Gandy, 44, said that frequent lateness and absenteeism among gipsy children meant that teachers spent much of their time helping them to catch up. Her son was left "painting pictures and making models", she said.

"The lovely village school was one of the reasons I moved here," she said. "It was a 10-minute walk and it had such a warm, welcoming environment. Now it is like a ghost school or a ghetto and we are all accused of being Nimbys or racists because we question if that's fair."

David McPherson-Davis, a former governor and a Crays Hill parish councillor, said: "As more and more traveller children joined, the balance changed. Parents were saying 'teachers are spending all their time on illiterate children and ours are sat twiddling their thumbs'. When the numbers dropped, we had to amalgamate classes and make teachers redundant and that put more people off.

"For all I know, it may suit the education authority to have the traveller children all in one place. They certainly refused to react to local people's concerns and our worries about funding."

Essex County Council education officials claimed last week that the school had become a pawn in a bigger battle being waged by some villagers to get the travellers out.

They claim that the mass resignation of governors in April created a needless panic, causing children to leave "in droves". This affected the balance of the school and made it harder for the remaining parents to stay.

Iris Pummell, a Conservative councillor and the country's cabinet member for education, said: "There is no way you can turn round and say that the travellers don't have a right to a place in school, and I'm afraid that is what some of the people in Crays Hill wanted.

"There was a lot of peer pressure and politics around and some parents felt that taking their children out would avoid the aggravation they were getting. It is difficult for a parent if other people are saying, 'Why are your kids still at Crays Hill with that lot?'.

"Not one of them told me that they were unhappy with the education at the school and there was no funding issue, the school had a substantial reserve. It was all about what was going on outside the school."

Earlier this year, a government-appointed inspector turned down an application by the gipsies for an extension of their present two-year agreement to occupy the site. It should mean that Basildon District Council can force most of them to leave by May next year.

Mrs Pummell said that the education authority was committed to making the school work whatever happened. "There is a new governing body and a new head teacher starts in January," she said. "We want the school to become such a special place that you would be daft not to send your child there."

One gipsy parent waiting outside Crays Hill school to pick up his children last week accused local residents of "racism, pure and simple".

The father-of-two, who asked not to be named, said: "If we were black, there would be an awful outcry. It would be seen as what it is - blatant discrimination. The kids love school. These people must think that we are monsters, carrying the plague to them."

Thanks Mark, although it's a repeat for me as I read it first in 2004.

This just shows exactly what I meant... since then Crays Hill seems to have improved.

Apart from the bit about Kim yada yada, the best bit for me in the story above and in 2004 is:

"There is no way you can turn round and say that the travellers don't have a right to a place in school, and I'm afraid that is what some of the people in Crays Hill wanted.

"There was a lot of peer pressure and politics around and some parents felt that taking their children out would avoid the aggravation they were getting. It is difficult for a parent if other people are saying, 'Why are your kids still at Crays Hill with that lot?'.

"Not one of them told me that they were unhappy with the education at the school and there was no funding issue, the school had a substantial reserve. It was all about what was going on outside the school."".

Do I see this reflected in the above story again?

Mark, when I mentioned burning caravans I wasn't referring to you by the way. Not sure how long you've been reading the Echo/Posts etc but if you trawl these pages when you have a spare moment you'll see the most hateful bile directed at travellers AND their children. Two children watched their parents burn in a caravan. Helpless.
THEN someone said that they should ALL burn in caravans. It was here, on the Echo posts and NOT deleted for some time.

Like the father of two said in your story above:

""If we were black, there would be an awful outcry. It would be seen as what it is - blatant discrimination. The kids love school. These people must think that we are monsters, carrying the plague to them."

I am ashamed to say that previous posts on ANY traveller "story" end up this way. Napalming them, carpet bombing them, watching them burn alive in caravans.

Again Mark, I'm not having a go at you but blanket statements can be so so dangerous.

By the way, these travellers "you know" - do they REALLY steal lap-tops on Sundays? ;-)

...No they one I know steal on Saturdays and sell on Sundays at our local Car Boot sale.

Sorry, but I can't resist reminding everyone of this particular part of the story:

"Kim Gandy, a local parent who moved her six-year-old son from the school in February, spoke of her sorrow at what had happened to her "dream" school.

She said that she had removed her son because she was worried about his education, not because she was prejudiced. "Accusations of racism are totally out of order," she said. "We had no problem with the English travellers who have lived here for years.

LOVE IT KIM! ABSOLUTELY LOVE IT!!!

I'd forgotten that gem from 4 years ago...

We are NOT racist - we NEVER had any problem with the ENGLISH travellers.

Classic. Classic Kim.

Kim, didn't you say that travellers should TRAVEL?! Does that apply to the ENGLISH ones too? You called them travellers that had
"lived here for years".

Justice. It even feels like Friday now!
Priceless, thanks for reminding me Mark!

Okay Mark, accepted. I can only hope as a law-abiding tax-paying citizen that you've informed the local cops about this! After all, with a statement like that you SURELY have evidence ;-)

Well after this there's hope of finally getting planning permission for my Swedish Au Pair training centre in the back of my garden after all.

Yes plenty of evidence I can assure you. My shed was broken into 2 years ago and the thieving toe-rags were identified on my home CCTV carrying electrical garden tools over my wall into a white van. The van was later seen at Crays Hill. The CCTV footage was shown to the Police and the culprits identified as travellers from Cray's Farm. They both missed there court appearances and there was nothing more I could as far as prosecution as the courts told me the address was unknown!. But hey let bygones be bygones and lets all try and integrate!

NO THANKS if it's all they same with you. Once Bitten and all that!

I sympathise Mark, I really do.

As for all the evidence, was it a specific number plate picked up or just a white van?

Me? I would've been straight on to Jon Austin about it - he stakes out Crays Hill with a camera most days by all accounts.

If they were clearly identified as travellers then I would've assumed the police had their names and "addresses"? They used to get post delivered at Crays Hill didn't they?

The whole point of their arguement to stay at dale farm is , they have no where else to go.
this report which comes from an irish newspaper are the same people who are at dale farm now trying to get retrospective planning.
It blows their story apart and it has been proven by jon austen. On the opulent monuments that dwarf the other gravestones in the municipal cemetery, the same surnames turn up again and again. Most common are Sheridan and Quilligan, with a smattering of O'Briens and Flynns.

The resting places are festooned with ornaments and poignant memorial poems etched in gold leaf on marble tablets. The tombs befit the status of their occupants as the elite of Ireland's traveller population.

Travellers in other parts of the country refer to their Rathkeale counterparts as "the millionaires", entrepreneurial geniuses who make their living from ambitious antique trading or asphalting businesses that spread the length and breadth of Europe.

In the cemetery, a Limerick county council maintenance man rests on his rake and stares at the gaudy monuments.

"You could build a house with the money each one of them cost," he says with a mixture of admiration and a little anxiety.

Article continuesadvertiseme
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In Rathkeale, the "settlers" - anyone who is not a traveller - do not understand the growing community of travellers around them. The feeling is mutual.

"They are a world to themselves and they don't talk to us, but they cause a hell of a nuisance," says a shopkeeper who asks not to be named for fear that the travellers will boycott him.

In Rathkeale, a tiny market town strung out along half a mile of the Limerick to Listowel road on the southern side of the Shannon, the feeling of two antagonistic societies trapped in one small place is inescapable.

On the small town square, flat-capped pensioners sit on a low wall, watching with obvious contempt as traveller women lovingly wash the expensive caravans parked outside their own pristine Victorian cottages.

Ginger-haired traveller children, well-dressed and with expensive haircuts, scamper about the main street, oblivious to the dangers of traffic, teasing the small, snapping dogs tethered to the caravan wheels.

John Dinnage, the owner of the town's only clothes shop, speaks ruefully about the changes he has seen.

"I remember 20 years ago there were just the Quilligans and the Sheridans, who lived here for generations. But their community just grew and grew and others came in.

"They took over four housing estates. They seem to see it as their spiritual home or something, but I don't know why. Now they are 50 per cent of the town. We just can't cope."

Now the same process may be beginning in parts of England. For the same names - Sheridan, Quilligan and others - are appearing on planning applications and on the school rolls of small communities that are very nervous about the future.

Nobody in Co Limerick could guess quite why the Rathkeale families are trying to set up a community in Cambridgeshire, although Noel White, the town's baker, has a theory.

"When the euro came in, they didn't want anything to do with it," he said. "They called it monopoly money. They said sterling was the only proper currency."

Fairhill, on the outskirts of Rathkeale, was the first of the town's tiny housing estates to be re-populated by travellers.

The narrow streets are unkempt and some of the small concrete houses are boarded up, their windows smashed in. But most of the homes are spectacularly refurbished, with pristine lawns, hacienda-style trimmings and brand-new uPVC windows.

Most have a large and luxurious caravan parked outside and a warning to outsiders on their ornate wrought-iron gates: "Enter at your own risk."

Many Fairhill homes have security grills installed on the doors and windows and burglar alarms prominently displayed. The police say there are almost no burglaries in Rathkeale.

The small estates such as Fairhill belong almost exclusively to traveller families.

"What happened is that the first family to move in would make someone, a settler, a huge offer, in cash, for a house," says one man, whose family sold its home to the travellers.

"The settler would think, well, if I don't sell, my neighbour might, then I'll be living next to travellers and no one will want to buy my house and I won't get a decent price.

"So they sell. Then their next-door neighbour would move out because they wouldn't want to live next door to travellers and soon enough the whole estate is owned by travellers."

It is hard to get a balancing opinion from the other side. Neither Simon "Sammy Buckshot" Quilligan nor Pa Flynn, identified as the community leaders of the other Rathkeale, would come to the door of their homes.

An approach made to any traveller produces an uncomprehending look and a shake of the head. In Rathkeale, traveller and settler live peacefully, though uneasily, side-by-side if not exactly together.

The Quilligan family, the Sheridans and the Flynns now own some of the largest houses in Rathkeale, as well as half of the shops in its main street.

"In 15 years only the travellers will be here," says Mr Dinnage.

Thanks for that. I love this bit:

"They are a world to themselves and they don't talk to us, but they cause a hell of a nuisance," says a shopkeeper who asks not to be named for fear that the travellers will boycott him."

So, despite his fears he doesn't mind taking money off them! Last thing he wants is them NOT shopping at his shop!

;-)

Vernon - good comment!

Seen it all - you said something about the kids becoming computer literate and reading this forum. Well, when people become educated power balances change, and what will happen is that they will fight back (verbally on this forum) and in the face of their complaints the Echo will be forced to moderate this site to a far greater degree than it is now.

The reason "caravan burning" comments are tolerated here is because no one is objecting strongly enough. The day that the subjects of the nasty comments become able to respond in kind things will change.

Those types of things couldn't be said about any other group, because they would be up in arms immediately. Its a sad fact that we humans only behave as well as we are forced to.

12k seems like a small price for a childs education, I bet Buckley and Baron etal spend more than that lunching prospective developers!
I do have some issues with traveller sites: 1.the illegal plots at DF seem to be mystifyingly occupied by a large number of single mothers claiming benefits, my belief being that they may not all be single and have a partner bringing in money.
2.I would hazard a guess and say that probably not a lot of the money earnt by the men is placed under the gaze of the Inland Revenue.
3.Planning laws are openly broken.
I could go on,
but to begrudge 12k for what, if used properly,would be a great boost to their community, seems rather petty.Having said that, I must admit that I do feel that a lot of travellers don't particularly want to put their kids in full time education.They do very well without learning about tangents, Pythagoras and the properties of liquids when heated!
Here is a quote from a book I recently read by a Romany:
Anyone who knows me knows I did'nt write this book.Because I don't read or write, so I could'nt have done, could I?Notice I say don't read or write not can't read or write.Many gypsies choose not to learn to read and write, or their parents choose for them.Its a way of keeping the outside world out I suppose.
And its possible that the Irish travellers feel the same.

Couldn't agree with you more Jes. I know someone who complained to the Editor about vicious and inflammatory comments previously and was told, basically, that nothing could be done about it as it wasn't a moderated forum.

However, we know it is at least viewed by the Echo reporters as they do comment from time to time and correct grammatical (if not factual!) errors!

Again, couldn't agree with you more.

Vernon, you have very pleasantly surprised me today!

Thanks for another excellent post.

Very reasonable and interesting comments Vernon. (As ever)

I suspect you have a point about benefit fraud and tax avoidance. However I'm sure you will agree that there are certain sectors of the settled population where the abuse is just as bad.

And it goes right to the top - I personally know of two highly paid company directors in the SS postcode area who have had a great deal of valuable building work done on their homes, paid for by their employer. This should be declared and taxed as employment income, but was "hidden" in the company accounts as business expenses. I think it's safe to say the Crown lost a lot more tax from them, than from a few Travellers or council house residents squeezing a few quid out of the system. Yet they walk free of any prosecution, or even insults on the Echo website.

Such is life it seems.

These laptops are not much use if they can't read or write!!!

How come the rest of us are busy saving Tesco "computers for schools" vouchers, to equip our schools when these scrounging gippos get it all free?

There is always the library where you can use these laptops.

Vernon, the amount of money is immaterial. It is the use of taxpayers ' money to build illegally on greenbelt without planning permission that I object to.

I would make the same objection whether it were £12, £1200 or £12,000.

Does anyone know what has happened at tessa jowell's neighbourhood since they set up camp there.

Another Resident wrote:
These laptops are not much use if they can't read or write!!!

The only piece of software on the laptops will be Microsoft Driveway.

When first installed it's barely functional but after several remedial patches from a third party provider it works fine.

Isn't Buckley an Irish name?

Maybe that is why Elvis never came to England?

This is just taking the mickey,they are out to take over basildon completly,have any of you in BASILDON had letters to write to the East of England assembly telling them why we dont want another 116 legal sites,I bet you hav!nt they want done by the the back door too.You think it id just us, wait and see on a field near you.

voyager wrote:
Isn\'t Buckley an Irish name?

I think it may be. And I have had contact with a Buckley family of travellers.

there taking over. not only do they m*g us all off they leave horses tied up with no food ect they cant treat any thing with repsect they take everything for granted yet basildon seem to let them do what ever the f**k they like. it makes me feel sick and the reason why no one does any thing?? BECAUSE THEY CANNOT BE A***D

Grattan Puxon said
"We are very optimistic the judge's ruling will go in our favour, so the community centre will be very beneficial.

IS NO ONE WORRIED BY THAT QUOTE. THE RUMOUR IS THAT THE JUDICIAL REVIEW RESULT IS OUT AND BEING KEPT QUIET UNTIL AFTER THE LOCAL ELECTIONS. PUXON HAS ALWAYS SAID THEY HAVE FRIENDS IN HIGH PLACES. DALE FARM IS LAUGHING AT US ALL NOW. . . ANYWAY HAPPY DAYS. ALL THE FED UP PEOPLE IN CRAYS HILL WILL BE ORDERING BRICKS AND MORTER TO BUILD HUGE EXTENTIONS NOW...GREEN BELT HERE WE COME .. SO SUE ME X

Seen it wrote:
Vernon, I applaud you. I do hope that's your REAL name and LOCATION by the way ;-) otherwise you'll be accused of not actually living on Canvey and therefore not able to comment on OTHER members of our community doing the same or most probably worse when it comes to draining the tax-payer. Kim - you "protest" FAR too much. Can you confirm that you DON'T read lefty witterings... just so we know it's FACTS - and WHY oh WHY have you not answered anyone's questions on here regarding FACTS? The only thing that'll make you a "good" politician is your ability to avoid answering simple and direct questions. By the way, do you actually have time to sleep? All this "two jobs to support my kids" and "voluntary" work and your posts on here, letters to the Echo, posting in LINCOLNSHIRE, photos published in the Echo etc just makes me wonder when you actually sleep? ;-) By the way, I was quite "up" for voting English Democrats as Margaret Stoll was canvassing in her car last weekend in my area. Now I've read your latest posts the English Democrats are going to be one party I WON'T be voting for. Cheers for that, at least.

makes me wonder when you actually sleep?

Another Iron lady perhaps?

I was hoping this was an April Fool's joke but wrong month! The whole farce is a kick in the teeth for decent citizens. These do gooders should get real and the council MUST use the same planning laws that the rest of us have to abide by. The number of comments on here proves the anger felt and our MPs must act NOW before unrest goes any further.

sheri wrote:
So how much do we Taxpayers spend on rehabilitation on drugs for junkies,How much do we spend on Social Services? how much do we spend on A & E services on a friday night cause of lager loughts, How much do we spend on youth prisons for TV's playstations etc, How much does the taxpayer have to pay to house and feed the unemployed scrot who lives to shop at Pisea Market and has so many children with different surnames that even she gets confused. How much does it cost to rehouse the peadaphile or criminal back into the community. I bet it's more then £12,000..Like someone said what goes around comes around. English people have tried to divide and rule for centuries, now it's time for other nations to take control...Good luck to the travellors....

So you are a pikey then. Can you use your spell check your confusing your mates.

With a center like that it must mean the're staying put. In which case give them their council tax bill and send them to prison when they fail to pay it. Then they can be intergrated with the rest of us muppets who follow the law and pay our way.

Whats with the Essex Racial Equality Council getting involved.
Why?
An Africian will aways be Africian,
An Oriental will always be Oriental but a Traveler can move into a house and he's no longer a Traveler.
Travelers choose their lifestyle so its not a "Race" issue.

Hi Optimist, I'm not a travellor by birth, but I do advocate for equal rights.

Think about it when British people by their Villa'a abroad they are called ex-pats, when Ethinics buy their properties in this country, they are called illegal immigrants. This country could not survive without foreigners or their goods. Like Tea bags, coffee, playstations,and TV's, not to mention fuel and cheap labour, and the list goes on.

To local Bloke from Basildon, It's a Race issue because Travellors are an Ethnic group. When travellors are discriminated against Race Equality laws protect them.

I'd rather see my tax go to this project rather then MP expenses or benifits for those who think society owes them because of decisions they have made to have 5 kids from 5 different men.

That's my view.

Once the excitement of the election results has died down, I am still hoping Kim Gandy can come back and share her knowledge with the rest of us.

I won't hold my breath though.

All living souls welcome whatever they are ready to cope with; all else they ignore, or pronounce to be monstrous and wrong, or deny to be possible.
- George Santayana, philosopher
(1863-1952)

sheri wrote:
Hi Optimist, I'm not a travellor by birth, but I do advocate for equal rights.

Think about it when British people by their Villa'a abroad they are called ex-pats, when Ethinics buy their properties in this country, they are called illegal immigrants. This country could not survive without foreigners or their goods. Like Tea bags, coffee, playstations,and TV's, not to mention fuel and cheap labour, and the list goes on.

To local Bloke from Basildon, It's a Race issue because Travellors are an Ethnic group. When travellors are discriminated against Race Equality laws protect them.

I'd rather see my tax go to this project rather then MP expenses or benifits for those who think society owes them because of decisions they have made to have 5 kids from 5 different men.

That's my view.

Sorry Sheri, they are not an ethnic group. Just because some control freak somewhere has decide that they are does not mean anything.

Genetically, they are white caucasian, just like me. The only difference is that they choose to live the so-called itinerant life. Ie sponging from and taking the pee out of the rest of society with their anti-social attitude.

They are here by design. Their own people revised their laws to stop their antics in their home country.

How long must we wait for our law to protect our own people. We are the quilts of Europe.

I have nothing against minorities as long as they pay their dues, abide by the law and respect other people. If they don't, then they can go, the sooner the better.

piano hinges wrote:
Once the excitement of the election results has died down, I am still hoping Kim Gandy can come back and share her knowledge with the rest of us. I won't hold my breath though. All living souls welcome whatever they are ready to cope with; all else they ignore, or pronounce to be monstrous and wrong, or deny to be possible. - George Santayana, philosopher (1863-1952)

Another quote from George Santayana "Those who cannot remember the past, are condemned to repeat it," from Reason in Common Sense. Quite apt here as they seem to be repeating the past mistakes with these travellers ad infinitum.

DAGS

any one wanna buy a caravan?

Tony wrote:

piano hinges wrote: Once the excitement of the election results has died down, I am still hoping Kim Gandy can come back and share her knowledge with the rest of us. I won't hold my breath though. All living souls welcome whatever they are ready to cope with; all else they ignore, or pronounce to be monstrous and wrong, or deny to be possible. - George Santayana, philosopher (1863-1952)

Another quote from George Santayana "Those who cannot remember the past, are condemned to repeat it," from Reason in Common Sense. Quite apt here as they seem to be repeating the past mistakes with these travellers ad infinitum.

Good one Tony. I remember that quote from a massive plaque at Auschwitz. Very true.

As evidenced not only by various councils making the same mistakes over and over, but also various individuals. Posting abusive, arrogant, untrue and condescending remarks on a website, for example, then running away when called to account for their behaviour (and false statements), only to sneak back a few days later and repeat the process ad nauseam.

Funny old world innit. :)

Alan wrote:
There is always the library where you can use these laptops.

Exactly, why don't the travellers use them.

piano hinges wrote:

Tony wrote:

piano hinges wrote: Once the excitement of the election results has died down, I am still hoping Kim Gandy can come back and share her knowledge with the rest of us. I won't hold my breath though. All living souls welcome whatever they are ready to cope with; all else they ignore, or pronounce to be monstrous and wrong, or deny to be possible. - George Santayana, philosopher (1863-1952)

Another quote from George Santayana "Those who cannot remember the past, are condemned to repeat it," from Reason in Common Sense. Quite apt here as they seem to be repeating the past mistakes with these travellers ad infinitum.

Good one Tony. I remember that quote from a massive plaque at Auschwitz. Very true. As evidenced not only by various councils making the same mistakes over and over, but also various individuals. Posting abusive, arrogant, untrue and condescending remarks on a website, for example, then running away when called to account for their behaviour (and false statements), only to sneak back a few days later and repeat the process ad nauseam. Funny old world innit. :)

Just like you eh?

Nice try Tony.

Almost.

The World has gone mad! Travellers neither pay tax or contribute, except by pushing up the Police bills, into the community and yet they are 'rewarded' with this funding! Where I live we have been struggling for years to open a youth club for our local Teens, only to be told there is no funding available, we can now see why. Perhaps the law abiding public should now take a leaf out of the travellers book? Cannot afford to buy a house? No land? Never mind go steal some stick a caravan on it then in a year or so build! Makes sense to my son!

piano hinges wrote:
Nice try Tony. Almost.

Would you care to elicidate on that comment.

No land? Never mind go steal some

Sorry Biggles, not true. The land is bought and paid for.

Tony wrote:

piano hinges wrote: Nice try Tony. Almost.

Would you care to elicidate on that comment.

Read the whole page Tony. I think you're smart enough to work it out for yourself. :)

Tony wrote:

piano hinges wrote: Nice try Tony. Almost.

Would you care to elicidate on that comment.

Or elucidate even.

Just read on another page that, as predicted, Kim will not be back on this page to explain who the team of paid do-gooders are, who they are cronies of, and so forth. Shame, I would have liked to have known. But there you go.

At least there will be a lot less silly name-calling for a while. Which is nice, even if I was starting to enjoy being called leftie - like some sort of southpaw boxing champ. :)

piano hinges wrote:
Just read on another page that, as predicted, Kim will not be back on this page to explain who the team of paid do-gooders are, who they are cronies of, and so forth. Shame, I would have liked to have known. But there you go. At least there will be a lot less silly name-calling for a while. Which is nice, even if I was starting to enjoy being called leftie - like some sort of southpaw boxing champ. :)

Perhaps you would like to explain your comments then?

This latest insult to the law abiding population of the Basildon District is surely a step too far! Every (legal)householder in the district should withold one month's council tax in protest. Failing that, we should form a consortium and build a new village on the nearest piece of green belt land! I'm sick of this namby pamby approach -the illegal site should have been dismantled years ago.

Tony wrote:

piano hinges wrote: Just read on another page that, as predicted, Kim will not be back on this page to explain who the team of paid do-gooders are, who they are cronies of, and so forth. Shame, I would have liked to have known. But there you go. At least there will be a lot less silly name-calling for a while. Which is nice, even if I was starting to enjoy being called leftie - like some sort of southpaw boxing champ. :)

Perhaps you would like to explain your comments then?

Still not sure what you found difficult to understand Tony.

I said: "Posting abusive, arrogant, untrue and condescending remarks on a website, for example, then running away when called to account for their behaviour"

Abusive remarks you can see, on this page and any other involving the word "Traveller".

Arrogant / condescending remarks - same. Making statements about someone's assumed ignorance of a subject without any knowledge of whether it's an accurate statement seems pretty arrogant to me. Discounting people's views because they use a pseudonym, or just don't agree with you, also fits this description.

Have a look around the site, if you're a newcomer. Use the search facility at the top of the page. You'll see what I mean fairly quickly.

Plenty of posters say things that are probably out of order in retrospect, self most definitely included. But most of us at least try to explain ourselves, as I am here, rather than just ignoring people (arrogantly perhaps, again). It shows contempt for people, and it shows bigotry in its truest sense.

Just my opinion. Which I am entitled to state, provided I don't get abusive or defamatory.

Hope that helps, old chap. :)

I forgot - the "untrue" remarks. You can start with the self-appointed professor, above, who wasn't self-appointed. Or the group of paid do-gooders, who I would wager don't exist. Or, indeed, two statements within a week making false claims about previous electoral results - you'll have to search for those, they're on other stories.

I can prove it all, and do so regularly.

What annoys me is there are many areas that would have appreciated this community centre but they didn't get offered the chance, yet these travelling people have illegally set up home on greenbelt land knowing full well they shouldn't be there and now they have been rewarded with this new 12k centre. It's unbelievable. It makes me wonder if they are going to be evicted after all?

Quote said: "Posting abusive, arrogant, untrue and condescending remarks on a website, for example, then running away when called to account for their behaviour" Unquote

Can you not see that you you are guilty of all the above.

If you think so, Tony, then please show me. I'd gladly apologise to anyone that deserved it. Some evidence/examples would be handy though, as nobody has accused me of that previously.

Going away for the weekend though and may not be posting much - not running away, mind, just chilling on a beach somewhere!

Tony, take Knobby as an example. Someone I rarely agree with but I respect him/her because they're not abusive - and Knobby kindly described me as "one of the more 'balanced' contributors on here" - not something you'd expect to call someone who lies, calls names, etc I would imagine.

Please do demonstrate that my behaviour on here is as bad as, say, Kim Gandy's - if you can. You clearly seem to think so, but so far I'd say you've not proved anything.

Cheers.

Off down the pub now Tony, but I will be back, I promise.

I have a feeling I'll need to come back to collect my winnings from Mark of Pitsea, for starters... :)

Hi Jimbo, Spongers, Taking the pee out of society, anti-social behaviour, Sorry what makes your culture so different to theirs again?... Of Course, English Caucasian's don't take the mick out of others and exploit them?, they don't sponge and wait for council housing do they?, they don't fiddle the system do they? They really study hard and aim to achieve don't they? They have less priviliges then others don't they? I wonder who spends more taxpayers money- The travellor caucasion or the English caucasion? Who do you think??? This country has always been run by Caucasion's and look at the state of it? All they seem to do at the top is fiddle taxes too, that's why the countries in a deficit cause the taxpayer is paying for the MP's wifes luxuries and the mistress of course, and the holidays and the Villas. Once again English caucasions or Irish caucasions or Scottish caucasions? These caucasions honestly....

Sheri, the difference is that the English at least pay their taxes and are entitled, if they need it, to claim benefits. The parasites at Dale Farm don't pay tax and should not be entitled to sponge off the taxpayer.

piano hinges wrote:
If you think so, Tony, then please show me. I'd gladly apologise to anyone that deserved it. Some evidence/examples would be handy though, as nobody has accused me of that previously. Going away for the weekend though and may not be posting much - not running away, mind, just chilling on a beach somewhere!

Intolerance itself is a form of egoism and to condemn egoism intolerantly is to share it.
George Santayana

I rest my case.

I am amazed. As if we, house dwellers of Wickford, will be wanted/ invited/ able to use the facility.

It's not a community facility; it's an laugh in the face of everyone locally.

I most certainly would not have voted ofr this to happen. There a million local groups that could have used some of that funding, let alone all.

I'm not against other backgrounds, but I just equality was actually equal to all and not these people who break planning and criminal law.

I'mn sick of it.

Sherry wrote:
What annoys me is there are many areas that would have appreciated this community centre but they didn't get offered the chance, yet these travelling people have illegally set up home on greenbelt land knowing full well they shouldn't be there and now they have been rewarded with this new 12k centre. It's unbelievable. It makes me wonder if they are going to be evicted after all?

You are absolutely right Sherry, this community centre would have been welcomed in many areas.

I really do not think the surrounding community would use it either, so I think it's fair to say this building is for the sole purpose of the illegal residents of Dale Farm which is a downright disgusting waste of tax payers money.

Andrew whether the English pay taxes or not they never suffer. Simple. If I had my way I'd send all the Ehnic's and there things back to their countries. So no more foreign goodies like tea bags, spices, clothes,fuel, the Jewels that people pay to see in the Tower of London that actually came from other countries. You name it, if it's linked to foreigners, it goes. I wonder if the'd be enough English workers left to keep Britain going????

If the parasites at Dale Farm paid their taxes, bought homes legally instead of thieving the land they live on, then they wouldn't 'suffer'. Although I don't see how not working, not paying tax, not sending their kids to school, stealing so much from local shops that all the stores in Wickford High Street now have empty boxes on their shelves, sponging thousands of pounds off the hard working taxpayer... how is that 'suffering'?

These people, and you Sheri, are parasites, ticks on the body of England, and should be treated as such.

sheri wrote:
Andrew whether the English pay taxes or not they never suffer. Simple. If I had my way I'd send all the Ehnic's and there things back to their countries. So no more foreign goodies like tea bags, spices, clothes,fuel, the Jewels that people pay to see in the Tower of London that actually came from other countries. You name it, if it's linked to foreigners, it goes. I wonder if the'd be enough English workers left to keep Britain going????

I'm confused - Are you the same Sheri as the one Alan replied to ?

If so, why are you contradicting yourself ?

Confused wrote:

sheri wrote: Andrew whether the English pay taxes or not they never suffer. Simple. If I had my way I\'d send all the Ehnic\'s and there things back to their countries. So no more foreign goodies like tea bags, spices, clothes,fuel, the Jewels that people pay to see in the Tower of London that actually came from other countries. You name it, if it\'s linked to foreigners, it goes. I wonder if the\'d be enough English workers left to keep Britain going????

I\'m confused - Are you the same Sheri as the one Alan replied to ? If so, why are you contradicting yourself ?

One is "Sherry" (who Alan responded to), the other "Sheri" (short for Sheridan I expect).

Testing

mmmmm seems that some sort of censorship is going on. Lots of post have disappeared overnight.

"James Dasinger, a US volunteer living at the site, will run IT lessons for children."

I hope that he has the relevant work permits. If not, put him on a plane back to the US and stamp his passport "deported"

:-) wrote:
"James Dasinger, a US volunteer living at the site, will run IT lessons for children." I hope that he has the relevant work permits. If not, put him on a plane back to the US and stamp his passport "deported"

And vetted, you can't just teach people without going through the appropriate checks.

m wrote:

Confused wrote:

sheri wrote: Andrew whether the English pay taxes or not they never suffer. Simple. If I had my way I\'d send all the Ehnic\'s and there things back to their countries. So no more foreign goodies like tea bags, spices, clothes,fuel, the Jewels that people pay to see in the Tower of London that actually came from other countries. You name it, if it\'s linked to foreigners, it goes. I wonder if the\'d be enough English workers left to keep Britain going????

I\'m confused - Are you the same Sheri as the one Alan replied to ? If so, why are you contradicting yourself ?

One is "Sherry" (who Alan responded to), the other "Sheri" (short for Sheridan I expect).

Gotcha,

Don't suppose we will be hearing from "Sheri" now then!

Seen it on wrote:

"By the way, I was quite "up" for voting English Democrats as Margaret Stoll was canvassing in her car last weekend in my area. Now I've read your latest posts the English Democrats are going to be one party I WON'T be voting for."

I am very sad about that. The reason I stood for election at my advanced age (never having done anything like it before!) is that I passionately believe that England has been less than well-served by her politicians in recent years, and the English Democrats provide a different voice. Please don't write us all off so easily.

Re IT lessons for children, correct me if I'm wrong, but don't ALL children learn IT skills in school from their very first attendance at infants and junior school level?

My husband is a volunteer who helps older people acquire IT skills - he's been doing this for a couple of years now and he goes into sheltered accommodation complexes as well as a monthly meeting in the Parish Rooms. He himself never touched a computer until after his 60th birthday, and as he put it 'he took to it like a duck to water'. He's recently helped a lady to talk to her family in Vancouver using a webcam. These are the people who need IT lessons because they did NOT get it at school. They did learn other things, spelling, mental arithmetic, English history and the King James Bible, things that are not taught now. But IT - no, they did not, but IT skills are a big part of everyone's life now which is why every 5-year old learns them.

PS: Anyone who is involved with teaching or caring for children, or for 'vulnerable adults' i.e. older people, MUST be police-checked. Whether volunteering or in a paid job, any involvement with these groups and you have to be police-checked.

Piano hinges wrote: "Seen it, I note your comments on the EDP. Margaret Stoll is also running in my ward and I'm still seriously considering lending her my vote. One bad apple doesn't tarnish the whole barrel after all, and I see nothing nasty about Margaret that would persuade me not to vote for her."

Thank you for this, and I hope I did get your vote after all!

It has been a learning experience for me, never having done anything of the sort before. I can think of one or two things that I'd do differently (better) another time around. We were a bit late getting our leaflets out, we hadn't enough bodies on the ground to deliver them all, I didn't have enough 'bottle' to stand in the market square...However, I'm grateful for your comment.

Tony, is that the best you can manage?! Cracking show sir.

Mark of Pitsea, can I have my money now please? :)

Margaret Stoll - you're very welcome. I think your passion about your beliefs comes through, without any nasty underside. I think you would have made a good councillor. Maybe next time.

Piano hinges, we just want to get our country back, and here's what it's all about:http://uk.yout
ube.com/watch?v=C97u
r3pdWy4

We do need good people to join us and support us. the cause we serve is far bigger than any individual's little ego-trip, and I hope that's something I'm not guilty of.

You mentioned the England of Agatha Christie and Enid Blyton. The ONE thing that comes across to me from some of those old novels - Dorothy Sayers, Agatha Christie, the early 20th century writers - is the class-consciousness. That is one thing we do NOT want back again. I myself came from a very humble background, what would now be called 'deprived', in fact. My mother literally scrubbed floors for a living and, were it not for my devoted aunt and grandparents, God knows where I'd have been as an unwanted baby. I never want to see that kind of discrimination again.

Some of the 'best of England' is in the faces of neighbours and the people in Rochford market square. We haven't yet become too 'diversified' and long may that continue. There's still a gentle courtesy about.

How to get more people interested in the political process at grass-roots level - 70.5% of people in Rochford town did not vote for anyone at all. Leaving aside those who were ill, away on holiday, that still leaves a lot of people who could have voted but did not. This is how it happens, as the song on the YouTube clip says, we 'let someone else rule our land'.

Haven't been on here for days because of the election, going to the mayoral count and work.

But I have heard that the usual carpers and whingers are here (or at least the MINority of people who operate under a multitude of pseudonyms.

I'd firstly like to say that the words I use on here are far less insulting than a lot of people here.

There are some people who post on here that I could respond to in a far more overt way.

But I won't lower myself to their level.

Suffice it to say that there IS a lot of support out there for the English Democrats. I met some wonderful people when out canvassing and had NO problems whatsoever with any of them.

In fact, it was me listening to THEIR rants on subjects such as the above, immigration, stealth taxes etc etc.

I haven't read a single posting on here because I've heard enough to know that there is somebody very spiteful on here, picking on somebody else in my party, supposedly because of what I have said.

All I say to that is that this sort of person wouldn't have any intention of voting for the English Democrats anyway.

I believe this to be a minority of nasty people who would do anything to get at me, even use someone else as a conduit.

All this tells me is that the person/s doing this are in fact one person or a very small mob of leftwing liberals, who would probably vote for a Respect candidate if they had stood.

If you don't like my views, don't read them. I say what I say, especially on THIS issue, from experience.

I do not have to explain myself any further than I have done already on this site. I will not be made to justify what I say either because I have already done so. Living the experience is proof enough.

In future, keep your nasty comments and veiled threats to yourself(ves).

One thing I do not do on here is threaten people or use others to get at someone else, playing on somebody else's feelings.

That is cheap and nasty.

I have said all I have to say on the issue of this so called community centre.

Such a place already exists in Crays Hill. It's called Crays Hill School.

If there are people here who are quite happy to support these kinds of projects, while other community groups like Scouts and Guides, go without; while charities have to bend over backwards to buy equipment and other items; while old people live on the breadline etc etc etc..

more fool you..

On the subject of the election. all the English Democrats did extremely well and I am particularly grateful to the 236 total strangers who voted for me.

At least I had the guts to stand up for what I believed in and would NEVER criticise anybody the way I believe has been done on this posting.

It just shows what cowardly people there are, to go online and knock somebody else's efforts when, not only do they not have the guts to stand for election themselves, they cannot even sign their names,

That is all I am going to say on this posting. Shame on those who would be nasty to a respected colleague, just because of something I said,

For that is truly a mark of somebody spineless enough to criticise a good, honourable person and make adverse comments about them, just because of somebody else's actions.

Cowardly, vicious, nasty and spineless.

The one that called you 'Mangy Kid', I think you will find that was Grillo.

He's just a sad case who gets his kicks out of picking on people whatever the thread is about.

Thanks for coming back Kim - albeit briefly.

Just a few points. You knew I would... :)

I'd firstly like to say that the words I use on here are far less insulting than a lot of people here.

True, to an extent. Endless repetitions of "lefty" are certainly less strong than "scum", I grant you. But then you tend to descend into the nastier stuff - "spineless" is one, and remarks on people's mental health is another. Given your background in helping the less fortunate, I'd have thought you would be more careful when using such words. You appear to have no remorse whatsoever on that score, even now, which is a shame.

I've heard enough to know that there is somebody very spiteful on here, picking on somebody else in my party, supposedly because of what I have said.

Well I have seen nothing more than one poster saying they wouldn't vote for Margaret, because of your intolerant remarks. That's not "picking on" her, that's just refusing to vote for her. Maybe Margaret can correct me, but I was not aware of this going any further.

May I also assure you now it's not me. I don't post under any names apart from this one.

I do not have to explain myself any further than I have done already on this site. I will not be made to justify what I say either because I have already done so. Living the experience is proof enough.

Sorry, but that's not true - or good enough. You have made any number of unsupported claims (banning St George's Day, or those on this thread above, or your electoral results, for example) which when challenged just prompt an avalanche of abuse. If you think you don't need to justify your statements then why make them? And why get abusive when questioned? As a politician you should be well acquainted with being accountable for your statements and actions. So it seems pretty arrogant to now claim you have all the facts, and therefore don't need to justify yourself.

For that is truly a mark of somebody spineless enough to criticise a good, honourable person and make adverse comments about them, just because of somebody else's actions.

Cowardly, vicious, nasty and spineless.

I assume you would say the same if somebody subjected someone else to a webpage full of abusive remarks, name-calling, belittling references to their (assumed, by you) lack of employment or meaningful relationships at home.... you know the drill.

You above all have always stood up for the concept of 'one rule for all' when it comes to the Travellers, and rightly so. But the concept extends to your behaviour on this website. It's a shame that through your hubris you still fail to recognise this, even after your EDP colleague has mentioned your "little ego-trip".

One thing I do not do on here is threaten people or use others to get at someone else

Sorry, but there is an archive on this site. And included in the archive is more than one occasion where you have attempted to rally those who agree with you into "drowning out" those who don't. Now, to me, that looks like using others to get at someone else.

If I was so inclined, I'd say that looked "spineless". Do you see how nasty that comment now sounds?

Mark (Pitsea): still waiting for my money.

Or maybe I'd settle for you making a promise not to accuse people of fitting predictable stereotypes until they've actually done something wrong...

piano hinges wrote:
Mark (Pitsea): still waiting for my money. Or maybe I'd settle for you making a promise not to accuse people of fitting predictable stereotypes until they've actually done something wrong...

(Yes, Tony, I know... I do it too....!)

"Well I have seen nothing more than one poster saying they wouldn't vote for Margaret, because of your intolerant remarks. That's not "picking on" her, that's just refusing to vote for her. Maybe Margaret can correct me, but I was not aware of this going any further."

In fact, TWO people on this site said they would not vote for me because of Kim's remarks. I have since taken the matter up directly with Kim, and have expressed my views to her - forthrightly, as you'd expect from one Yorkshirewoman to another!! Thank you, Kim.

Someone above made a comment to the effect that 'whether the English pay taxes or not, they never suffer'.

This is so breath-takingly wrong that I could write reams refuting it. All would be useless. The English never suffer? I could write a book the size of 'War and Peace' giving examples from my own family alone. I am surprised that no one else has picked up such a blatant falsehood and misrepresentation, a complete smear of my nation. The English never suffer? What a calumny, what an ignorant libel. You really are most ignorant and misinformed, and that's being charitable. I could say a lot more, but it would be pointless. I might be drawn to use some of the terminology that Kim uses - don't tempt me!!

Of all the people resident in Britain, only the English have no representation. There are no race 'equality' groups standing up for the English.

Margaret Stoll wrote:
\"Well I have seen nothing more than one poster saying they wouldn\'t vote for Margaret, because of your intolerant remarks. That\'s not \"picking on\" her, that\'s just refusing to vote for her. Maybe Margaret can correct me, but I was not aware of this going any further.\" In fact, TWO people on this site said they would not vote for me because of Kim\'s remarks. I have since taken the matter up directly with Kim, and have expressed my views to her - forthrightly, as you\'d expect from one Yorkshirewoman to another!! Thank you, Kim. Someone above made a comment to the effect that \'whether the English pay taxes or not, they never suffer\'. This is so breath-takingly wrong that I could write reams refuting it. All would be useless. The English never suffer? I could write a book the size of \'War and Peace\' giving examples from my own family alone. I am surprised that no one else has picked up such a blatant falsehood and misrepresentation, a complete smear of my nation. The English never suffer? What a calumny, what an ignorant libel. You really are most ignorant and misinformed, and that\'s being charitable. I could say a lot more, but it would be pointless. I might be drawn to use some of the terminology that Kim uses - don\'t tempt me!!

Just seen the second person's comment. You are right, of course. :) Now I just wonder how many extra votes could have been earned by charm and persuasion. Now there's a thought.

It seems sad that Kim - who surely needed something of a word in her shell-like - seems to have left the site altogether. She was fine (very erudite in fact) when not going off on one. It's a shame that it now seems she has only two modes: rant or silence. Some middle ground might be nice...!

As for the English suffering - well of course we do. Less than most, perhaps, but I think the comment which irked you was somewhat overgeneralising the situation. Your self-restraint is noted, Margaret!

I have to agree with the other two people that cast their vote elsewhere because of Kim's behaviour on here.

I too voted against her party because I didn't like what I was reading.

Sorry Margaret.

Thanks to Steve and piano hinges! I didn't get the chance to do much 'charm and persuasion'. We delivered as many leaflets as possible to Rochford residents, but for one reason or another, it wasn't possible to cover the whole town. Time, weather, physical ability....and you don't really get a chance to speak to people face-to-face.

I admire Kim for having the bottle to stand in a ward where she wasn't known, and to gain 200+ votes from people who didn't know her, as she put it, 'from Adam'. I only stood in Rochford because I've lived here since 1990 and a lot of people here know me from church, from when I used to work here and in the neighbourhood. Having said that, Rochford is still only a small town but there are parts of it that I hardly know, and all the new flats are so 'secure', it's like getting into Fort Knox trying to deliver leaflets there.

Kim has had a word in her shell-like!

Andrew, you're absolutely right. I heard a news item yesterday about Wendy Alexander wanting to bring forward the date for a Scottish vote on independence. I found myself shouting at the radio: 'WHAT ABOUT ENGLISH INDEPENDENCE?'

Andrew says: 'There are no race equality groups standing up for the English'. None but the Steadfast Trust: www.steadfasttrust.o
rg.uk

The Secret People

Smile at us, pay us, pass us; but do not quite forget,
For we are the people of England, that never has spoken yet.
There is many a fat farmer that drinks less cheerfully,
There is many a free French peasant who is richer and sadder than we.
There are no folk in the whole world so helpless or so wise.
There is hunger in our bellies, there is laughter in our eyes;
You laugh at us and love us, both mugs and eyes are wet:
Only you do not know us. For we have not spoken yet.

The fine French kings came over in a flutter of flags and dames.
We liked their smiles and battles, but we never could say their names.
The blood ran red to Bosworth and the high French lords went down;
There was naught but a naked people under a naked crown.
And the eyes of the King's Servants turned terribly every way,
And the gold of the King's Servants rose higher every day.
They burnt the homes of the shaven men, that had been quaint and kind,
Till there was no bed in a monk's house, nor food that man could find.
The inns of God where no man paid, that were the wall of the weak,
The King's Servants ate them all. And still we did not speak.

And the face of the King's Servants grew greater than the King:
He tricked them, and they trapped him, and stood round him in a ring.
The new grave lords closed round him, that had eaten the abbey's fruits,
And the men of the new religion, with their Bibles in their boots,
We saw their shoulders moving, to menace or discuss,
And some were pure and some were vile; but none took heed of us.
We saw the King as they killed him, and his face was proud and pale;
And a few men talked of freedom, while England talked of ale.

A war that we understood not came over the world and woke
Americans, Frenchmen, Irish; but we knew not the things they spoke.
They talked about rights and nature and peace and the people's reign:
And the squires, our masters, bade us fight; and never scorned us again.
Weak if we be for ever, could none condemn us then;
Men called us serfs and drudges; men knew that we were men.
In foam and flame at Trafalgar, on Albuera plains,
We did and died like lions, to keep ourselves in chains,
We lay in living ruins; firing and fearing not
The strange fierce face of the Frenchman who knew for what he fought,
And the man who seemed to be more than man we strained against and broke;
And we broke our own rights with him. And still we never spoke.

Our path of glory ended; we never heard guns again.
But the squire seemed struck in the saddle; he was foolish, as if in pain.
He leaned on a staggering lawyer, he clutched a cringing Jew,
He was stricken; it may be, after all, he was stricken at Waterloo.
Or perhaps the shades of the shaven men, whose spoil is in his house,
Come back in shining shapes at last to spoil his last carouse:
We only know the last sad squires ride slowly towards the sea,
And a new people takes the land: and still it is not we.

They have given us into the hands of the new unhappy lords,
Lords without anger and honour, who dare not carry their swords.
They fight by shuffling papers; they have bright dead alien eyes;
They look at our labour and laughter as a tired man looks at flies.
And the load of their loveless pity is worse than the ancient wrongs,
Their doors are shut in the evenings; and they know no songs.

We hear men speaking for us of new laws strong and sweet,
Yet is there no man speaketh as we speak in the street.
It may be we shall rise the last as Frenchmen rose the first,
Our wrath come after Russia's wrath and our wrath be the worst.
It may be we are meant to mark with our riot and our rest
God's scorn for all men governing. It may be beer is best.
But we are the people of England; and we have not spoken yet.
Smile at us, pay us, pass us. But do not quite forget.

G.K. CHESTERTON

Thank you for this, Andrew.

On another thread in response to the Bishop of Brentwood about illegal immigrants, I wonder how many of the immigrants, illegal or not, have any understanding of the length and depth of English history as illustrated in this poem.

'And a few men talked of freedom, while England talked of ale'. I had a similar thought a couple of weeks ago when we went to a conference in London titled 'The Future of England'. There were football coaches on their way, all kinds of distractions, TV reality shows, and I imagined that a conference with that title would be packed to the doors, standing room only. It wasn't, nothing like it. Same with the three-quarters of the population of Rochford town who didn't even vote last Thursday. I particularly hate people who say things like 'this country is finished, I'm leaving, for Aus, for Spain, wherever, will the last person to leave turn the lights out'. I haven't seen that comment here, but I have seen and heard it said quite a lot. We need people to stand up for England before it really is too late.

I particularly hate people who say things like 'this country is finished, I'm leaving, for Aus, for Spain, wherever, will the last person to leave turn the lights out'.

They're the same people that don't vote - and then complain that nothing ever changes!!

Perhaps they should all move to America, where I understand there is no concept of irony. :)