Patient dies of swine flu in south Essex (From Echo)

omg!! i'm so scared now. this is so bad

i am scared too , i have a serious illness it would kill me if i got it. :( i think we should be told where this person comes from though. i am sorry to hear this sad news for the family it is terrible and i would like to know if they knew where they caught it from ?

wellbeing wrote:
i am scared too , i have a serious illness it would kill me if i got it. :( i think we should be told where this person comes from though. i am sorry to hear this sad news for the family it is terrible and i would like to know if they knew where they caught it from ?

At least you know that should you catch it - don't go to Basildon Hospital.

there no hiding from it i know of people in benfleet canvey basildon and southend that have it so just gotta take it as it comes good luck

wellbeing wrote:
i am scared too , i have a serious illness it would kill me if i got it. :( i think we should be told where this person comes from though. i am sorry to hear this sad news for the family it is terrible and i would like to know if they knew where they caught it from ?

Wrong log in name me thinks. Sorry, back on track, It is getting very frightening for us all. About time the government stepped things up, seeing as we have nearly as many cases as Mexico. Evilc in 5..4..3..2..1

And what exactly can the govt do - make everyone stay at home, so the country comes to a standstill. You all probably come into contact with someone who is either a carrier or has it - how would you know. So no you don't need to know who or where this poor person has come from.

My condolences to the family

I think that the location of this poor person should be made public simply so that people in the same location can be aware...after all it will come out in the end someone knows and will leak the info.
realy sorry for the person and the family . they have my condolences..

My condolences to the family but feel very strong that details of this person should me made public i am 22 weeks pregnant and work for a outside company I have to go on to the wards at basildon and i am very concerned that i might of come in to contact with this!!!!!!

I strongly agree with a couple of the above comments. How on earth would you know who has the virus or not? Just because this poor person died in Bas Hospital doesn't mean we all need to avoid this place. Get a grip,you could catch it anywhere!

A special thanks to the people that go abroad polluting the planet and then bring back diseases that kill people. All so you can have a nice time - well done.

we should know the location of this person.

route66 wrote:
we should know the location of this person.

What business of it is yours? Certainly not going to make a lot of difference is it?

Scarmongering is what you are doing....

What amazes me is how many people still sneeze or cough into their hands or into the air. Have they not read the leaflet from the Government? We must all keep germs to ourselves and try our best not to pass this virus onto others.

My thoughts are with the family who have lost a loved one. RIP

not scarmongering,but if you have or someone close to you has a serious medical condition, surely it would be wise to avoid contact if at all possible, or seek medical advice...it could save someone from being in a worse state....I don;t mean names but place of work or similar. thats all..

purple rain wrote:
not scarmongering,but if you have or someone close to you has a serious medical condition, surely it would be wise to avoid contact if at all possible, or seek medical advice...it could save someone from being in a worse state....I don;t mean names but place of work or similar. thats all..

Right now the swine flu is in pandemic mode. If those who have serious medical conditions, perhaps they need to stay in the house and avoid all contact with people?

This was a healthy person who died from it, not someone with a previous medical condition.

It amazes me how many people still hack, hork, snort and sneeze without bothering to use tissues or their hand.

Out of 27,000 people who called the NSH health line, only 8,000 were ill.

People will panic but they shouldn't.

500,000 people a year die from seasonal flu.....

As someone who has had a flu shot every year since I was a kid, I'm not worried at all...when they swine flu vaccine is ready, I will also get that.

Many of the people who have died from swine flu, probably never had a flu shot which made them more vulnerable.

Soozie wrote:

purple rain wrote: not scarmongering,but if you have or someone close to you has a serious medical condition, surely it would be wise to avoid contact if at all possible, or seek medical advice...it could save someone from being in a worse state....I don;t mean names but place of work or similar. thats all..

Right now the swine flu is in pandemic mode. If those who have serious medical conditions, perhaps they need to stay in the house and avoid all contact with people? This was a healthy person who died from it, not someone with a previous medical condition. It amazes me how many people still hack, hork, snort and sneeze without bothering to use tissues or their hand. Out of 27,000 people who called the NSH health line, only 8,000 were ill. People will panic but they shouldn't. 500,000 people a year die from seasonal flu..... As someone who has had a flu shot every year since I was a kid, I'm not worried at all...when they swine flu vaccine is ready, I will also get that. Many of the people who have died from swine flu, probably never had a flu shot which made them more vulnerable.

thanks for the info.soozie...it certainly put things in to perspective...I too have a flu shot every year and the one off pneumonia one too..

wotsit wrote:
A special thanks to the people that go abroad polluting the planet and then bring back diseases that kill people. All so you can have a nice time - well done.

What an idiotic comment.

i dont care about catching it bring it on

WOW how butch are you
essex22....or is it just your mouth that's big

Well all i can say is good luck to you! You must be one hell of a hard person !

I have never had flu. I am supposed to get all panicky now and refuse to leave the house? Should we be painting crosses on peoples doors if they have symptoms? I don't think they should give the details of this person as it is a private matter for the family. Also how many times have you read about somebody dieing in tragic circumstances and then the family home being burgled while they are at the funeral.
I shall take my chances and carry on as normal.

good luck!

Swine Flu is more than just a bit of a pig now for both the 'at risk' and previously healthy alike.
But if GPs' surgeries are not keeping up with government advice regarding telephone diagnosis and swift deployment of anti-virals who's telling porkies?
If the government is at fault, the political abattoir in the sky beckons too late.
If it's the doctor's, they need curing quickly.

This probably says more about Basildon hospital than swine flu. I just knew it would be there when I saw the article title. It would be nice to know the age of the person. It worries me having a little one and having the ominous Basildon hospital as the nearest hospital.

Soozie,

In fact in a bad year there are 20,000 UK deaths from seasonal flu. (Not 500,000).

"What may be alarming some people is that the people who have died so far are young, where as with seasonal flu it is mostly the elderly who succumb."


As for the Flu shot,

"Researchers from George Washington University, led by Dr Lone Simonson, say that in the US - despite an increase in vaccination coverage from 15% to 65% since 1980 - excess mortality among elderly people actually increased during the 1980s and 1990s."

In May 2008 a report stated that the flu jab was 44% effective. Even people with a vested interest state it is 70-80% effective.

http://www.telegraph
.co.uk/health/swine-
flu/5788411/Swine-fl
u-is-like-seasonal-f
lu-only-out-of-seaso
n.html

http://news.bbc.co.u
k/1/hi/health/701071
7.stm

http://www.asiaone.c
om/Health/News/Story
/A1Story20080506-636
48.html

http://www.flujabs.o
rg/faq.php

charlie croker wrote:
Soozie, In fact in a bad year there are 20,000 UK deaths from seasonal flu. (Not 500,000). "What may be alarming some people is that the people who have died so far are young, where as with seasonal flu it is mostly the elderly who succumb." As for the Flu shot, "Researchers from George Washington University, led by Dr Lone Simonson, say that in the US - despite an increase in vaccination coverage from 15% to 65% since 1980 - excess mortality among elderly people actually increased during the 1980s and 1990s." In May 2008 a report stated that the flu jab was 44% effective. Even people with a vested interest state it is 70-80% effective. http://www.telegraph .co.uk/health/swine- flu/5788411/Swine-fl u-is-like-seasonal-f lu-only-out-of-seaso n.html http://news.bbc.co.u k/1/hi/health/701071 7.stm http://www.asiaone.c om/Health/News/Story /A1Story20080506-636 48.html http://www.flujabs.o rg/faq.php

I didn't say 500,000 in the UK tho did I?

It is not elderly who succumb to seasonal flu...it is a lot of different people. Those whose immune system is weak are big targets.

So, do you think that taxpayers should get the vaccine first? From what I understand is people who hold jobs and pay tax will get the vaccine first before any others get it.

Soozie,

the worldwide estimate of deaths from seasonal flu is between 250K to 500K.
"About 9 out of 10 of those deaths are among people older than 65, Currie said. Most times, they already have health problems that the flu makes worse, he said."

http://www.cnn.com/2
009/HEALTH/04/28/reg
ular.flu/

"Young adults who got swine flu in Mexico were more likely to get serious complications or die than older people who may have a natural immunity, researchers say. They suggest that once a vaccine against swine flu is developed, younger people could be given priority, if there is insufficient vaccine to protect everyone.

This research suggests that people born before 1957 might have some natural protection from the virus. But this paper looks at figures from Mexico, so we don't know whether older people in the UK have the same protection."

http://www.guardian.
co.uk/lifeandstyle/b
esttreatments/2009/j
un/30/younger-people
-should-get-swine-fl
u-vaccine-first

I hope that helps

You should have a look at what is in the vaccine and then decide whether you want to have it, mercury is one and formaldehyde is another

I think all drs surgeries should have this hand cleaner like they do have at the hospitals. so you clean your hands on way in and way out.

charlie croker wrote:
Soozie, the worldwide estimate of deaths from seasonal flu is between 250K to 500K. "About 9 out of 10 of those deaths are among people older than 65, Currie said. Most times, they already have health problems that the flu makes worse, he said." http://www.cnn.com/2 009/HEALTH/04/28/reg ular.flu/ "Young adults who got swine flu in Mexico were more likely to get serious complications or die than older people who may have a natural immunity, researchers say. They suggest that once a vaccine against swine flu is developed, younger people could be given priority, if there is insufficient vaccine to protect everyone. This research suggests that people born before 1957 might have some natural protection from the virus. But this paper looks at figures from Mexico, so we don't know whether older people in the UK have the same protection." http://www.guardian. co.uk/lifeandstyle/b esttreatments/2009/j un/30/younger-people -should-get-swine-fl u-vaccine-first I hope that helps

Thanks Charlie.

However my undeerstanding, from a pretty reliable source stated that those who are gainfully employed will be given preference for the vaccine. Do to the economic consequences they want to ensure those are able to work.

Soozie, Southend on sea.
She has a comment on nearly every story on the echos site.
Seeing as she was commenting @ 6.55 this morning one wonders if she does anything else with her life....
maybe she should find herself a man then she wouldn't have to rise so early on a Sunday.:)

I BUTTHEAD wrote:
Soozie, Southend on sea. She has a comment on nearly every story on the echos site. Seeing as she was commenting @ 6.55 this morning one wonders if she does anything else with her life.... maybe she should find herself a man then she wouldn't have to rise so early on a Sunday.:)

If you have the time to read each story etc that I post on, perhaps you should find a mate...or a life ;)

Actually I was up at 5 this morning, but those details are trivial non?

I BUTTHEAD wrote:
Soozie, Southend on sea. She has a comment on nearly every story on the echos site. Seeing as she was commenting @ 6.55 this morning one wonders if she does anything else with her life.... maybe she should find herself a man then she wouldn't have to rise so early on a Sunday.:)

Lol, good comment I butthead and very observant.
She seems a bit fiery at times but i reckon she's a little cracker;)

I BUTTHEAD and Frank's back should grow a brain between themselves and then they might have something to contribute to the debate.
Soozie, at least, has plenty to say.

I BUTTHEAD and Frank's back should grow a brain between themselves and then they might have something to contribute to the debate.
Soozie, at least, has plenty to say.

Please keep to the point and remember that this story is about a patient at Basildon Hospital dying due to the Swine 'flu' virus.

A family will be grieving for this person so keep them in your thoughts.

Thank you onegreatjohnny.


ADSUM, granted that this family may be reading about this and my heart goes out to them, however, you are not the moderator of this thread.

soozie you make sense
of this thread unlike some of the idiots. keep it going.....

Soozie wrote:

charlie croker wrote:
Soozie, the worldwide estimate of deaths from seasonal flu is between 250K to 500K. "About 9 out of 10 of those deaths are among people older than 65, Currie said. Most times, they already have health problems that the flu makes worse, he said." http://www.cnn.com/2 009/HEALTH/04/28/reg ular.flu/ "Young adults who got swine flu in Mexico were more likely to get serious complications or die than older people who may have a natural immunity, researchers say. They suggest that once a vaccine against swine flu is developed, younger people could be given priority, if there is insufficient vaccine to protect everyone. This research suggests that people born before 1957 might have some natural protection from the virus. But this paper looks at figures from Mexico, so we don't know whether older people in the UK have the same protection." http://www.guardian. co.uk/lifeandstyle/b esttreatments/2009/j un/30/younger-people -should-get-swine-fl u-vaccine-first I hope that helps

Thanks Charlie.

However my undeerstanding, from a pretty reliable source stated that those who are gainfully employed will be given preference for the vaccine. Do to the economic consequences they want to ensure those are able to work.

Soozie,

I have been to some briefings on this subject. I can't post all I was told but there was no mention of the workforce getting priority apart from the quote marked below***) . The items below may be of interest though:


There is no vaccine available to protect against pandemic flu. A vaccine cannot be
made until the new virus has been identified and before a pandemic starts it is difficult to
predict what strain will cause it and the new virus may change so that a pre-prepared
vaccine may be ineffective. However governments will seek to produce a vaccine after
the virus has been identified.

*** The use of the vaccine will be determined by Government
and will prioritise health workers and other essential workforces. ***




The UK health authority suggests that absence from work generally across the working
populace:

• Large organisations should plan for 15-20% absenteeism (in addition to usual levels)

• An absenteeism rate of 30-35% should be planned for within smaller organisations
or within small critical teams within large organisations
• Those affected are likely to be highly infectious for 4-5 days and absent from work
for up to 10 days

Factors such as the nature of the work, the amount of contact with persons, non
pandemic sickness rates, and the age specific attack rate of the virus may result in
differences between workforces.

Other factors may result in higher absence levels such as disruption to normal home life
brought about by government policies to counter the pandemic (e.g., closure of schools
and the need to care for children which may further increase absence from work) also
concern about exposure from when working among the public.


Irrespective of the effects upon absence levels, a flu pandemic will have significant
implications for individuals within the workforce:

• illness among the workforce and their families,
• parental concern due to the risk to children (a high rate of spread is likely through
schools),
• concern about infection for those with pre-existing conditions.



Individuals can reduce, but not eliminate, the risk of catching or spreading influenza
during a pandemic thorough good personal hygiene practices, and will necessitate
communication to, and education of, the workforce of such practices.

Enforced measures such as restriction of travel, mass gatherings or school closures will
be determined by Government and would likely involve due consideration of the scale or
geographic spread of the pandemic, the practicalities of implementing such measures
and any social restrictions imposed and economic impacts.

Voluntary co-operation by organisations and individuals is more likely to be sought in the
earlier stages. Public health authorities are likely to advise individuals to stay at home,
parents to keep children off school, and employers to send employees home if they
display symptoms

Charlie from the Times

It is likely the elderly would be given a seasonal flu jab to guard against other circulating flu strains - as happens every year - as well as the swine flu vaccination, Dr Holden said. The new vaccine is likely to be given in two doses, but could be left as a single jab if this is found to provide high rates of immunity.

What it doesn't say, is that people who are working will be given preference over those who do not.

The elderly, the workers will get the jab. The rest will have to wait.

ring-drug

BTW, I have it on very good source (government paper)that anyone who is not working will not get the jab first, vulnerable or not.
IN order:

Workers
Elderly
Vulnerable
Benefit people


Figure it out.... each dose of Tamiflu is 90 quid. Each swine flu vaccine is double that. In recessionary times, you have to be realistic.

Think about it! Will you vaccine someone who contributes, or one who doesn't.

for someone as my self suffering from swin flu my self which im on tablets for i feel tht everybody should have at least some kind of meds to prevent them getting it. i have really bad health my self i feel for the person that had lost this person to it my heart gos to r.i.p x

It is very sad for the family of this victim. Its a shame that the government canot be so decisive over a vaccination for chicken pox which killed 119 between 2005 - 2007 in London alone. When will they admit that chicken pox is a killer. And not all of those children had underlying medical conditions.

Soozie wrote:
BTW, I have it on very good source (government paper)that anyone who is not working will not get the jab first, vulnerable or not.
IN order:

Workers
Elderly
Vulnerable
Benefit people


Figure it out.... each dose of Tamiflu is 90 quid. Each swine flu vaccine is double that. In recessionary times, you have to be realistic.

Think about it! Will you vaccine someone who contributes, or one who doesn't.

Please supply a link to this Gov't paper. Or post it's title and I will do some digging.

At the conference I was at very recently, I was given some papers regarding dealing with a Pandemic (which I gave details of above) and while there were some very sensitive things discussed, the things you mentioned weren't and in all honesty would be politically inept if true.

I feel very sad for the family of the person who died from Swine Flu and my condolences go to them. Having done family tree research recently I found three relatives who died within days of one another from the "Spanish Flu" in the 1920s leaving two orphaned children......I just hope this is not history repeating itself.

true-doze

Ignore the above (true-doze)this echo web site is absolutely infuriating!

well i've herd that the whole country is gonna get vacinated coz of this guy'z death :-)

charlie croker wrote:

Soozie wrote: BTW, I have it on very good source (government paper)that anyone who is not working will not get the jab first, vulnerable or not. IN order: Workers Elderly Vulnerable Benefit people Figure it out.... each dose of Tamiflu is 90 quid. Each swine flu vaccine is double that. In recessionary times, you have to be realistic. Think about it! Will you vaccine someone who contributes, or one who doesn't.

Please supply a link to this Gov't paper. Or post it's title and I will do some digging. At the conference I was at very recently, I was given some papers regarding dealing with a Pandemic (which I gave details of above) and while there were some very sensitive things discussed, the things you mentioned weren't and in all honesty would be politically inept if true.

I can't give you link for it - sorry.

As for the conference you went to, I have also attended a few as well along with meetings. Yes there is some very sensitive information we were privvy to.

You said:

all honesty would be politically inept if true.

Remember which government we are dealing with!!

Do you not think that there is a great deal of people who will have the advantage over the vaccine?

Think again!

of interest:

http://www.bloomberg
.com/apps/news?pid=2
0601124&sid=aPUbdh6s
Llb0

of interest:

http://www.bloomberg
.com/apps/news?pid=2
0601124&sid=aPUbdh6s
Llb0

"TheWizzard, Basildon says...
10:59am Sun 12 Jul 09

You should have a look at what is in the vaccine and then decide whether you want to have it, mercury is one and formaldehyde is another"

I thought I was the only one believing this. The amount of people dying from vaccines is unbelievable, but this is a sensitive subject so I won't say any more.

I'm just glad there are other people out there that believe the same as I do.

This business of the 'undeserving' unenployed being last in line for vaccination is surely not the case in theory.
It will, though, be frontline workers first ... doctors, nurses, the emergency and armed services etc., although this may amount to the same thing in practice.

onegreatjohnny wrote:
This business of the 'undeserving' unenployed being last in line for vaccination is surely not the case in theory. It will, though, be frontline workers first ... doctors, nurses, the emergency and armed services etc., although this may amount to the same thing in practice.

I really should have written that better. Apologies.

As well as police, train drivers, banks etc will get this because they are vital to the infrastructure.

Soozie wrote:

onegreatjohnny wrote:
This business of the 'undeserving' unenployed being last in line for vaccination is surely not the case in theory. It will, though, be frontline workers first ... doctors, nurses, the emergency and armed services etc., although this may amount to the same thing in practice.

I really should have written that better. Apologies.

As well as police, train drivers, banks etc will get this because they are vital to the infrastructure.

Business rules OK ... we all understand that.
But I cannot help feeling that business as usual is responsible for the alarming spread of this disease in the first place.
If Mexico had shut its borders, airlines stopped operating there and other countries worldwide supplied all the anti-virals necessary, this would have given time for to develop a vaccine.
The virus would have been out in a community for sure, but it would have been a much smaller community.
It's too late now ... the World Health Organisation has taken a huge gamble on this - an improvement on past pandemics maybe but a gamble nevertheless.
We can only hope and pray that it has been worth it.

onegreatjohnny wrote:

Soozie wrote:

onegreatjohnny wrote: This business of the 'undeserving' unenployed being last in line for vaccination is surely not the case in theory. It will, though, be frontline workers first ... doctors, nurses, the emergency and armed services etc., although this may amount to the same thing in practice.

I really should have written that better. Apologies. As well as police, train drivers, banks etc will get this because they are vital to the infrastructure.

Business rules OK ... we all understand that. But I cannot help feeling that business as usual is responsible for the alarming spread of this disease in the first place. If Mexico had shut its borders, airlines stopped operating there and other countries worldwide supplied all the anti-virals necessary, this would have given time for to develop a vaccine. The virus would have been out in a community for sure, but it would have been a much smaller community. It's too late now ... the World Health Organisation has taken a huge gamble on this - an improvement on past pandemics maybe but a gamble nevertheless. We can only hope and pray that it has been worth it.

onegreatjohnny - even if Mexico had shut its borders, this would not have stopped the virus.

Many countries cannot afford to supply the anti virals needed. They are pretty expensive and they only really work within the first 24 hours of having symptoms.

There is far too much media hype right now which is scaring people into having false symptoms and overloading the help line.


The best thing anyone can do is if they get this, or their kids, stay home. Don't look at it as a jolly with time off and go to crowded areas!

And for the sake of your fellow commuters, please use a tissue or hankie when you cough, snort, spew, hork and snot out. Coughing into your paper is not a 'good thing'.

Soozie wrote:

onegreatjohnny wrote:

Soozie wrote:

onegreatjohnny wrote: This business of the 'undeserving' unenployed being last in line for vaccination is surely not the case in theory. It will, though, be frontline workers first ... doctors, nurses, the emergency and armed services etc., although this may amount to the same thing in practice.

I really should have written that better. Apologies. As well as police, train drivers, banks etc will get this because they are vital to the infrastructure.

Business rules OK ... we all understand that. But I cannot help feeling that business as usual is responsible for the alarming spread of this disease in the first place. If Mexico had shut its borders, airlines stopped operating there and other countries worldwide supplied all the anti-virals necessary, this would have given time for to develop a vaccine. The virus would have been out in a community for sure, but it would have been a much smaller community. It's too late now ... the World Health Organisation has taken a huge gamble on this - an improvement on past pandemics maybe but a gamble nevertheless. We can only hope and pray that it has been worth it.

onegreatjohnny - even if Mexico had shut its borders, this would not have stopped the virus.

Many countries cannot afford to supply the anti virals needed. They are pretty expensive and they only really work within the first 24 hours of having symptoms.

There is far too much media hype right now which is scaring people into having false symptoms and overloading the help line.


The best thing anyone can do is if they get this, or their kids, stay home. Don't look at it as a jolly with time off and go to crowded areas!

And for the sake of your fellow commuters, please use a tissue or hankie when you cough, snort, spew, hork and snot out. Coughing into your paper is not a 'good thing'.

Sound advice certainly if you have the virus, but the truth is that WHO did not expect this to be spreading so fast during the summer months.
Influenza does not normally behave like that.
The race to find a vaccine is now probably already lost so far as many are concerned.
Slowing the spread by closing borders and shutting down flights would have given us a better start.

onegreatjohnny

The drug companies are working flat out for this vaccine which should be available pretty much yesterday. They have had time to work on it, don't worry so much..

One cannot blame WHO. Shutting borders wouldn't help.

How is it that the UK has the highest recorded cases outside the US then?

Simple...poor hygiene.

Our vaccine is due to be delivered by the end of August, quite a way off yet.
And the puzzle of the spread is not that simple.
It's difficult, for example, to imagine that Britain has lower hygiene standards than Mexico.
No matter, what will be will be and so far, for most, it's not too bad.

We in South East Essex are obviously second rate citizens. We are fully informed about the GP and the little girl who have died from swine flu but Basildon Hospital won't even tell local residents the area their patient lived. We should be entitled to such basic information.

lifelongislander wrote:
We in South East Essex are obviously second rate citizens. We are fully informed about the GP and the little girl who have died from swine flu but Basildon Hospital won't even tell local residents the area their patient lived. We should be entitled to such basic information.

Absolutely ... media hype is one thing, but silence is even more scary.

lifelongislander wrote:
We in South East Essex are obviously second rate citizens. We are fully informed about the GP and the little girl who have died from swine flu but Basildon Hospital won't even tell local residents the area their patient lived. We should be entitled to such basic information.

Why should oyu be entitlede to this information? I'm not being snarky but I do belive people are entitled to their privacy. What difference will it make to you if this information is released?

I for one think this should be kept schtum. If not people will panic more than they are. That information is pointless.

Soozie wrote:

lifelongislander wrote:
We in South East Essex are obviously second rate citizens. We are fully informed about the GP and the little girl who have died from swine flu but Basildon Hospital won't even tell local residents the area their patient lived. We should be entitled to such basic information.

Why should oyu be entitlede to this information? I'm not being snarky but I do belive people are entitled to their privacy. What difference will it make to you if this information is released?

I for one think this should be kept schtum. If not people will panic more than they are. That information is pointless.

Soozie, someone outside his family must already know who this unfortunate guy is.
It will come out sooner or later.
Better for the authorites to be open rather than guarded now.
It will only create more concern.
We are told that there will be more deaths like this and it is not going to be possible to hide the identities of families invoved.
Nor should it be.
Although such matters must be handled sensitively it goes without saying.

Basildon hospital have more cases of swine flu which is being kept quiet one of the wards is mary seacole!!!!!

Don't bother calling it Swine Flu anymore ... it's out in the human community now, probaly for ever.
It's just a new flu now ... they're all dangerous and we should be told how dangerous this one is, it's not a question of intruding on private grief or about panicking.
It's about pragmatism.

Soozie wrote:
onegreatjohnny

The drug companies are working flat out for this vaccine which should be available pretty much yesterday. They have had time to work on it, don't worry so much..

One cannot blame WHO. Shutting borders wouldn't help.

How is it that the UK has the highest recorded cases outside the US then?

Simple...poor hygiene.

I don't think it's as simple as "poor hygiene".

We have for some time been using Anti-Biotics freely, trying to destroy every single germ through sterie environments etc when the facts are that our immune systems need to be strengthened by meeting Bacteria and Virii.

Interestingly swine flu seems less effective/harmful against people aged 5 or over, which some experts suggest indicates that a form of the virus has previously circulated which means many over 45s have some immunity.

Another factor might be commuting in close quarters with others, imagine a tube train coach where just one person has the virus and sneezes, infects 20 people who then board other tube trains.

As was pointed out above:

"Individuals can reduce, but not eliminate, the risk of catching or spreading influenza
during a pandemic thorough good personal hygiene practices".

As for your claim about vaccination

"A vaccine to protect against swine flu is being developed but it is not available yet.
The first batches of vaccine are expected to arrive in late August, and 30m double doses – enough for half the population – are expected to be available by the end of the year.
The government has ordered enough vaccine for the whole population and, when it becomes available, will focus on those at the greatest risk first.

There are now more than 94,000 confirmed cases and 429 deaths in over 120 countries. The highest numbers have been in the USA, Mexico, Canada and the UK"

http://www.nhs.uk/ne
ws/2009/04April/Page
s/Swineflulatest.asp
x (updated at 17:00 13/07/09)

"Who will be a priority for vaccination with the H1N1 swine flu vaccine?
The Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation has previously advised that the priority groups in relation to H5N1 (the bird flu vaccine) should be assumed to be:
frontline health and social care workers (to help ensure the NHS functions well),
older people and those in clinical risk groups (see Which people are most vulnerable from swine flu?), as flu can be more serious in these groups, and
under-16s, as protecting children can slow the spread of the virus in the population.
The priority groups would be reviewed in light of evidence on the virulence and severity of the new virus in different groups.
The government will still aim to achieve universal vaccination, but because the vaccine will have to be delivered over time, it is right that we start thinking now about groups to be prioritised."

http://www.nhs.uk/Co
nditions/Pandemic-fl
u/Pages/QA.aspx#Prio
rity

Soozie wrote:

charlie croker wrote:

Soozie wrote: BTW, I have it on very good source (government paper)that anyone who is not working will not get the jab first, vulnerable or not. IN order: Workers Elderly Vulnerable Benefit people Figure it out.... each dose of Tamiflu is 90 quid. Each swine flu vaccine is double that. In recessionary times, you have to be realistic. Think about it! Will you vaccine someone who contributes, or one who doesn't.

Please supply a link to this Gov't paper. Or post it's title and I will do some digging. At the conference I was at very recently, I was given some papers regarding dealing with a Pandemic (which I gave details of above) and while there were some very sensitive things discussed, the things you mentioned weren't and in all honesty would be politically inept if true.

I can't give you link for it - sorry.

As for the conference you went to, I have also attended a few as well along with meetings. Yes there is some very sensitive information we were privvy to.

You said:

all honesty would be politically inept if true.

Remember which government we are dealing with!!

Do you not think that there is a great deal of people who will have the advantage over the vaccine?

Think again!

Soozie,

Please supply the title of the document then, I have been briefed today and the information was not even close to what you allege.

If you post the title of this government paper I can raise it when we meet again on Wednesday at 14:00

Come on Charlie Croker... "Remember which government we are dealing with!" ... Labour gave us a Freedom of Information Act, the Tories never would have done so unless it was dragged out of them.
This is not a time for political point scoring.

charlie croker wrote:

Soozie wrote:

charlie croker wrote:

Soozie wrote: BTW, I have it on very good source (government paper)that anyone who is not working will not get the jab first, vulnerable or not. IN order: Workers Elderly Vulnerable Benefit people Figure it out.... each dose of Tamiflu is 90 quid. Each swine flu vaccine is double that. In recessionary times, you have to be realistic. Think about it! Will you vaccine someone who contributes, or one who doesn't.

Please supply a link to this Gov't paper. Or post it's title and I will do some digging. At the conference I was at very recently, I was given some papers regarding dealing with a Pandemic (which I gave details of above) and while there were some very sensitive things discussed, the things you mentioned weren't and in all honesty would be politically inept if true.

I can't give you link for it - sorry. As for the conference you went to, I have also attended a few as well along with meetings. Yes there is some very sensitive information we were privvy to. You said: all honesty would be politically inept if true. Remember which government we are dealing with!! Do you not think that there is a great deal of people who will have the advantage over the vaccine? Think again!

Soozie, Please supply the title of the document then, I have been briefed today and the information was not even close to what you allege. If you post the title of this government paper I can raise it when we meet again on Wednesday at 14:00

Sorry charlie, I won't do that.

The links you supply are bog standard and tells no one in the epublic much anything they do not already know. It is already old news, and not quite up to date.

YOur information about the vaccine, for the whole population is correct, however not everyone wil be vaccinated this year. 20 million by year end and the rest by next spring.


Be interesting to see which group they actually select for priority.

And considering that 38% of business in UK has no plan in place for this, makes it worth following.

Anyone that has private medical insurance through work might want to look into getting it done outside the NHS if they can.

onegreatjohnny wrote:
Come on Charlie Croker... "Remember which government we are dealing with!" ... Labour gave us a Freedom of Information Act, the Tories never would have done so unless it was dragged out of them. This is not a time for political point scoring.

To be fair to charlie, I think he is genuinely concerned and cares.

As for disclosing this persons identity, no way.

It won't accomplish anything and it is unfair to his family to spread his name around.

If it was a member of your family, would you want their name in the paper?

I suggest anyone wanting more information on the Swine flu, should use the WHO website:


http://www.who.int/c
sr/don/2009_07_06/en
/index.html


and an up to date article:


http://www.google.co
m/hostednews/afp/art
icle/ALeqM5g2KUEPBsr
PEzHz6tOZ4fvGpk-eNQ

Soozie,

you refer to a gov't paper but won't even disclose the title? If I was at all suspicious then I would think that there is no such government paper at all. I think if you have this evidence that is "News and tells people things not in the public domain" it's time to put up or shut up. Other wise you just end up looking remarkably silly.

The links I posted are placed there to confirm that I have evidence to back up what I post. The same as you have now started doing, hardly fair criticism. The NHS link I posted was updated at 13:00 yesterday, hardly old news?

The only one I posted without a link is the contents from a briefing paper, in which I detail some salient facts.

If you send over your email address, then I can send you a copy of the paper.

So just to summarise:

500,000 people do not die of seasonal flu every year.
There are no plans that I can find or have been briefed on by which the unemployed will be treated less generously than those working, apart from those in frontline healthcare/essential services.

OnegreatJohnny,

the bit about "remember which government we are dealing with", was not posted by me, it was a quote from Soozie, who then in the post above defended me????

charlie croker wrote:
Soozie, you refer to a gov't paper but won't even disclose the title? If I was at all suspicious then I would think that there is no such government paper at all. I think if you have this evidence that is "News and tells people things not in the public domain" it's time to put up or shut up. Other wise you just end up looking remarkably silly. The links I posted are placed there to confirm that I have evidence to back up what I post. The same as you have now started doing, hardly fair criticism. The NHS link I posted was updated at 13:00 yesterday, hardly old news? The only one I posted without a link is the contents from a briefing paper, in which I detail some salient facts. If you send over your email address, then I can send you a copy of the paper. So just to summarise: 500,000 people do not die of seasonal flu every year. There are no plans that I can find or have been briefed on by which the unemployed will be treated less generously than those working, apart from those in frontline healthcare/essential services. OnegreatJohnny, the bit about "remember which government we are dealing with", was not posted by me, it was a quote from Soozie, who then in the post above defended me????

Did I say it was in the public domain?

I said from a relaible source....so in their interests, you don't get anything.

I don't really care whether you doubt me or not.

As for putting up or shutting up, perhaps a measure of your own advice is needed here?

250-500 thousand die worldwide from flu yearly....I never once said in the UK.

Do your homework!!

I also assume that you know the vaccine priorities have changed now - correct?

It appears that the healthy,15-50 age group who society can least afford to lose and are at most risk, would be the last to receive the vaccination.

excuse my spelling today.

Soozie wrote: BTW, I have it on very good source (government paper).........From your post above.

Soozie,

please don't try to bluster and distract the fact that you claimed to have inside knowledge and I merely asked for the title of this Government paper.
If you send that over then I can verify it and then when we meet with officials tomorrow challenge them on it's contents. I can't see how mentioning the title of the government paper would in any way compromise your reliable source.

After all that's a very serious allegation you are making, basically that the unemployed will be allowed to become infected. There is however a teeny weeny flaw in your argument, you are aware that the vaccination will only work against a particular strain and that if/when H1N1 mutates it may not be effective against the new strain? Letting large portions of the populace get infected increases the chance/risk of that happening.



You quoted "500,000 people a year die from seasonal flu....." which reads like every single year 500,000 die, they don't not even worldwide, the figures are depending on year between 250,000 and 500,000. I even posted a link to verify that.

No I haven't checked changed priorities of vaccination, can you post a link?
Wouldn't that work against all you said earlier from your reliable source though? After all, you said the workers would get the vaccine first, now you say they won't? How reliable is your source as it appears to me they don't seem to know very much at all. Perhaps you can post their job title (not name).

Can we please have some facts to back up your claims, that's hardly too much to ask for

please don't try to bluster and distract the fact that you claimed to have inside knowledge and I merely asked for the title of this Government paper.

I told you I cannot give it to you, nor will I. I'm not in possession of it.

I have no idea of who you are from jack and posting my email or a link to anything (which I wouldn't give you anyway) does not mean I'm blustering.

Beause YOU post information which is widely availble from news sites, is fine.

You seem very knowledgeable in the subject.

I suggest if you have a document you want to send me, why not post the link of here so everyone can see it?

Wouldn't that work against all you said earlier from your reliable source though? After all, you said the workers would get the vaccine first, now you say they won't?

Yep it would...but then again things seem to be changing daily anyway.

How reliable is your source as it appears to me they don't seem to know very much at all. Perhaps you can post their job title (not name).

How about you post your job title and name ?

you are aware that the vaccination will only work against a particular strain and that if/when H1N1 mutates it may not be effective against the new strain

I am indeed.

Once I have more concrete facts, yes I will post them of course.

So just to clarify you quote from an alleged "Government paper" but you don't even know the title? Hmmmm.

If you don't know the title and don't have the document, it hardly seems accurate for you to be quoting from it.

The title of the document I have is:

7.4 Pandemic Flu Planning Framework, I am unable to post a link because the cover quotes:

Synopsis
This framework outlines the
requirements and arrangements for
a plan to mitigate the effects of
seasonal and avian flu pandemics
on DELETED (by Charlie_Croker)

This document is the property of
name DELETED (by Charlie_Croker).
It shall not be reproduced in whole
or in part without written permission
from the Document Controller.

I never asked for your "sources name" I asked for their job title, having posted the title of the document above it would not be a good idea to post my job title as it would be apparent who I am. but email charlieDOTcrokerATgm
ail.com and I will give it to you.

So I have put up, maybe you should too?

If you don't know the title and don't have the document, it hardly seems accurate for you to be quoting from it.

I never said that, I said I am not in possession the document, there is a difference. As for the title, what business is it of yours? I'm not being rude but am curious.

I wonder why you ar so interested in it...are you a health professional or a local politician?

Either way it doesn't matter - and as for your above documents...never read and have no interest in them.

You asked for their job title, why not post what yours is?


You seem insistent on knowing theirs, let us all know yours!

Soozie,

I have told you, email me at the address above and I can prove who I am and why I suspect you are talking total codswallop.

I will even provide you with a copy of the document.

As I said, if you are speaking the truth, what do you have to fear?

I wonder why you ar so interested in it...are you a health professional or a local
politician?

Actually Charlie no need to answer this.

charlie croker wrote:
Soozie, I have told you, email me at the address above and I can prove who I am and why I suspect you are talking total codswallop. I will even provide you with a copy of the document. As I said, if you are speaking the truth, what do you have to fear?

I have nothing to fear at all and you can think what you like - makes no biggie to me :)

I may email you. I think we have beat this topic to death on this thread and getting nowhere.

"A vaccine to protect against swine flu is being developed but it is not available yet.
The first batches of vaccine are expected to arrive in late August, and 30m double doses – enough for half the population – are expected to be available by the end of the year.
The government has ordered enough vaccine for the whole population and, when it becomes available, will focus on those at the greatest risk first.


Have you read this?
http://www.usatoday.
com/news/health/2009
-07-13-swine-flu-vac
cine_N.htm

Soozie wrote:
BTW, I have it on very good source (government paper)that anyone who is not working will not get the jab first, vulnerable or not.
IN order:

Workers
Elderly
Vulnerable
Benefit people


Figure it out.... each dose of Tamiflu is 90 quid. Each swine flu vaccine is double that. In recessionary times, you have to be realistic.

Think about it! Will you vaccine someone who contributes, or one who doesn't.

Soozie,

I think we all know that there is no "source with a government paper", which has details of secret Government plans you allege in your posts. In fact I have proof that it's untrue.

Despite many requests for a copy of this paper or even it's title, you have declined to post either on here or via an email.

I have today spoke to someone fairly high up in contingency planning for the Pandemic( I actually sent him a link to this page) and he said "(his words, not mine about your post above) "total cr@p". He said some other things too but that was the gist of his comments. He also thought your comment:
"Many of the people who have died from swine flu, probably never had a flu shot which made them more vulnerable." deserving of special mention (and not in a good way).


I can forward you his details and email if you wish, so you can discuss this smoking gun of a secret government paper with a real life source.

And you asked me why I was so interested? Well when someone makes some very serious allegations, ones that my parents saw and were concerned that they would be denied the vaccine, I had to investigate.

Why you decided to do this, I don't know but until you can prove otherwise then I can only assume that you got caught out with your fib and then didn't want to lose face.

Should you wish to email me some proof then I will be happy to put the record straight.

I have e-mailed you

One has bounced??

Soozie wrote:
I have e-mailed you

One has bounced??

charlie
DOT
croker
AT
gmail.com

nothing received

PMSL soozie benefit people? perhaps thats disability living allowance (DLA) my son gets it and guess what he is classified by the local primary care trust as a priority for the vaccine!! stop scare mongering

charlie croker wrote:

Soozie wrote: BTW, I have it on very good source (government paper)that anyone who is not working will not get the jab first, vulnerable or not. IN order: Workers Elderly Vulnerable Benefit people Figure it out.... each dose of Tamiflu is 90 quid. Each swine flu vaccine is double that. In recessionary times, you have to be realistic. Think about it! Will you vaccine someone who contributes, or one who doesn't.

Soozie, I think we all know that there is no "source with a government paper", which has details of secret Government plans you allege in your posts. In fact I have proof that it's untrue. Despite many requests for a copy of this paper or even it's title, you have declined to post either on here or via an email. I have today spoke to someone fairly high up in contingency planning for the Pandemic( I actually sent him a link to this page) and he said "(his words, not mine about your post above) "total cr@p". He said some other things too but that was the gist of his comments. He also thought your comment: "Many of the people who have died from swine flu, probably never had a flu shot which made them more vulnerable." deserving of special mention (and not in a good way). I can forward you his details and email if you wish, so you can discuss this smoking gun of a secret government paper with a real life source. And you asked me why I was so interested? Well when someone makes some very serious allegations, ones that my parents saw and were concerned that they would be denied the vaccine, I had to investigate. Why you decided to do this, I don't know but until you can prove otherwise then I can only assume that you got caught out with your fib and then didn't want to lose face. Should you wish to email me some proof then I will be happy to put the record straight.

Something says I hit a nerve. You can accuse me of anything all you like - it must have something because you wouldn't have got your nose so out of joint.


And I never said secret plans, I said I saw a paper which stated some points that were not general public knowledge. Yoiu have made it out to be some huge conspiracy where you demanded to see it, the titel and who the person is. That is none of your business, just like you are none of mine. I don't care if you are a burger flipper in Rotten Ronnies or Gordon McClown.

You blew it up into some major conspiracy theory, providing links etc to outdated and bog standard news.

As for you so called 'friend high up the food chain' many people have no faith in what this government says in regards to this pandemic.

They are ill-prepared regardless of what is said.

As for all your allegations in your last post, my saying that many of the people who have died from the swine flu have probably never had a flu shot, I stand by that. Think all those in Mexico had access to it?


I have read previous posts of yours and although some are respectable, I think you are up your own a$$ and not as up there as you think you are.

I'm not going to bother with this thread anymore.

I have mailed you but it has bounced again. I won't bother again.

who wrote this paper the BNP??

Soozie,

Bluster all you want, everyone can see that you have been caught out.

Your emails to me all "bounce", strangely the notifications from this forum (and other emails) do arrive, but yours don't........ Perhaps some other posters can check by emailing and I will reply, just to prove that its my email address?

As I suspected, no evidence, just scare mongering and fibs and now a personal attack. (All the hallmarks of someone caught out by the way).

So now you have seen this "paper", which according to someone in the know does not and never has existed! But can't prove it! How very convenient.

I never said my source was a friend or a member of the government, I said they planned for the pandemic. I actually contacted them having read your post for clarification.

As for "No faith in what the government says", those in glass houses shouldn't throw stones....(Also you were the one who had seen this "government paper" and quoted from it, now you say you don't believe the government. Hardly a consistent argument.

You should remember the adage "Liars always get caught out".

Face it, there is no government paper, there are no plans for the unemployed, sick retired etc. to get the vaccine last of all, it's all a figment of your imagination.

Trying to spread panic amongst the vulnerable members of society, you should be ashamed of yourself!

Face it, there is no government paper, there are no plans for the unemployed, sick retired etc. to get the vaccine last of all, it's all a figment of your imagination.

Think what you want charlie boy, we'll see won't we? And trust me, not a whole lot of people have faith in this governments prepardness. For one, the vaccine will not be availble until Oct, not August. Clinical trials need to be done and that takes months.

Just because someone does not produce what you want, when you want does not mean it doesn't exist. I said I saw the paper, the points, I also never said I agreed with it.

Bit of a control freak I would say eh?

Regardless, lets hope there is enough vaccine to go around, even to give you one. Hardly want someone in your stature in life to get sick now, do we.

Good health to you

I would wish to offer my condolences to those who have been so tragically affected by swine flu.

However although no consolation to those who have been severely affected by the effects of this virus I have to admit that given the opinion Dr Maureen Baker of the Royal College of General Practitioners, namely 'There is very little bog standard seasonal flu around at the moment, ...if you have the ... symptoms it is most likely to be swine flu’ and having displayed the proscribed symptoms I have in all probability just had a dose of same.
It is debilitating but certainly not as severe as other strains that I have suffered in the past. Not being one inclined to travel I’m not sure of the source of my infection but I can confirm from personal experience that the general medical opinion that it’s effects can be “mild” is correct.

My only caveat to that is that I would wish to be able to confirm through an antibody test that I have been infected before I might be offered a vaccination, but equally I am aware given the projected number of cases that this is a unrealistic aspiration.

Quote:

Soozie:
"I am not going to bother with this thread anymore" 04:45

Changed your mind then?

Why you persist with this delusional fantasy about this secret government paper is beyond me.
As I tried to explain, at 14:00 today I have a meeting with some senior officials and was going to ask them if what you said was official Government policy, the title etc. would have helped me. If what you state is true then it's pretty **** shocking and they need to be held to account.

However, despite requests for something so small and inconsequential as the title of this paper, you have been unable to do so.

I then emailed someone involved in Civil contingency planning who I briefly met at a conference on this matter and asked him, he replied and said your allegation is simply not true....(IS that enough for you?)


Once again you resort to name calling, now I am a "control freak", no Soozie, I simply like the truth, which I can see is somewhat inconvenient to you. I assure you my pants are not on fire, have you checked yours?

So perhaps you can tell us all where/when you saw this "smoking gun" of a Government paper?

If you actually bothered to email me, I could send you a real life, proper Gov't report into the planning for the Flu epidemic. A REAL ONE! It does not mention anywhere that the sick,lame, old or lazy would not get the vaccine until last......

So you bluster away all you want, I think we all know the truth.......

charlie croker wrote:
Quote: Soozie: "I am not going to bother with this thread anymore" 04:45 Changed your mind then? Why you persist with this delusional fantasy about this secret government paper is beyond me. As I tried to explain, at 14:00 today I have a meeting with some senior officials and was going to ask them if what you said was official Government policy, the title etc. would have helped me. If what you state is true then it's pretty **** shocking and they need to be held to account. However, despite requests for something so small and inconsequential as the title of this paper, you have been unable to do so. I then emailed someone involved in Civil contingency planning who I briefly met at a conference on this matter and asked him, he replied and said your allegation is simply not true....(IS that enough for you?) Once again you resort to name calling, now I am a "control freak", no Soozie, I simply like the truth, which I can see is somewhat inconvenient to you. I assure you my pants are not on fire, have you checked yours? So perhaps you can tell us all where/when you saw this "smoking gun" of a Government paper? If you actually bothered to email me, I could send you a real life, proper Gov't report into the planning for the Flu epidemic. A REAL ONE! It does not mention anywhere that the sick,lame, old or lazy would not get the vaccine until last...... So you bluster away all you want, I think we all know the truth.......

Oh dear Charlie, try decaf - you are far too wound up for your own good.

Now have a nice day -and really, you need to chill out a bit.

Oh dear Soozie,

Try some Sodium Pentathol, it will help you. you really do tell to many fibs for your own good.

Have a nice day - and really, you need to learn the difference between truth and fantasy.

Did you know that you gave yourself away with your lies:

There are certain language patterns that predict when someone is being less than honest. For example, liars tend to use fewer first person words like I or my in both speech and writing. They are also less apt to use emotional words, such as hurt or angry, cognitive words, like understand or realize, and so-called exclusive words, such as but or without, that distinguish between what is and isn't in a category.

http://www.psycholog
ytoday.com/articles/
199705/the-truth-abo
ut-lying

LOL, must be a slow day at the office huh? I certainly hope you aren't a civil servant or on the government payroll. You are not value for taxpayer money.

Funny how you don't get what you want, you feel the need to go on some long winded tangent or feel the need to try and analyse me.
Shucks, I am hurt.

Keep going, you are actually amusing me now. Next post I assume you'll say I was raised by wolves in the wild.

No the next post will say prove me wrong supply some evidence to back up your claim. as for my job I assure you I work for no government department. I work for a large well known multi-national company in a managerial capacity. I believe I am tremendous value for money and that my remuneration package is fair and reasonable. I am not in the office I am on a train to london. I am off un a meeting with officials about swine flu preparation.

SOOZIE HAS BEEN CAUGHT OUT LOL we need a new headline "Woman who tries to make up news caught out and won't admit it" why make things u does it make you feel special?

I've just read all 96 of the above postings - charlie croker is my new hero!!!!

This thread has certainly been screwed into the ground.
At times it looked like a willie-waving contest that Soozie was doomed to lose.
Moral - when in a hole stop digging.
Soozie was on firm enough ground with the assertion that essential workers are in front for the vaccine.
Respect to Charlie Croker though - forensic examination of an argument.

In my opinion - Soozie and Croker are both know-it-alls. BUT charlie boy is up for taking his gloves off, whereas soozie hides in her corner

Croker for PM! (Unless he already is lol!)

here comes the abuse....

In my opinion - Soozie and Croker are both know-it-alls. BUT charlie boy is up for taking his gloves off, whereas soozie hides in her corner

Croker for PM! (Unless he already is lol!)

here comes the abuse....

sav25 wrote:
In my opinion - Soozie and Croker are both know-it-alls. BUT charlie boy is up for taking his gloves off, whereas soozie hides in her corner

Croker for PM! (Unless he already is lol!)

here comes the abuse....

Sav25
I'm new to this kind of thing, but are these two always the same?
Seems the case with other characters on different threads as well.
But takes something away from the story for the sake of egos it seems to me.
Such a shame.