Anger as elephants enter the circus ring (From Echo)

So by advertising the booking line the Evening Echo is happy to advertise this circus & animal suffering

Well Done!

NOT

People can make up their own minds about whether to go this circus.
The Echo's report gives both sides of the issue and contains relevant information such as the circus contact number.
However, our editorial Comment on Page 8 of today's newspaper makes our position clear. It is headlined: Let's ban animal circuses.

MARTIN McNEILL,
Editor

First time I've seen the Editor come on here. I have to agree, the story's balanced and I did buy a copy earlier and he's right, the editorial is totally against using animals in circuses.

I can think of a few places in Southend where they should let the tiger off the lead.

I cannot believe that the use of animals in a circus is still allowed in this day and age. Come on Rochford, ban them like Southend.

I am not a Vet but I have seen these elephants and they all look VERY healthy to me.

In many parts of the world they are used as mechanical cranes etc and are also really cared for because without the elephant families would starve.

In other parts of the world elephants are poached for no reason other than some chinese weirdo believes the tusks give him super powers.

Yet in this country we so called animal lovers and animal activist believe we have the answer, will we do not.

Animals in Zoo's and animals in a circus are probably better looked after than animals that are free.

What we need to do is ensure that they are looked after which in most cases I am sure they are.

As for criticising the Echo that is not fair, it is only the press in this socialist republic that ensures we have free speech

As long as the animals are treated well, and are in good condition, I don't see what the problem is.

They are probably treated much better here, than they would be in their native country.

At least they won't be hunted for their ivory, or die of thirst or starvation.

i think its good that someone is willing to employ these elephants in a time of recession and un employment we need to see more elephants being given work it takes a load off our job centers

“We believe confinement, constant transportation, loud noises, abnormal social groups and inadequate winter quarters may all cause suffering.
sounds like living in westcliff and working in london.

First of all there are 2 types of elephant, african and asian. They've been put together eventhough they are different species and in the wild would never be in touch with each other. Secondly the conditions they are in don't even meet the RSPCA conditions for keeping animals in a zoo, so why is it acceptable to keep them in a circus? Thirdly they perform tricks they would never do in their natural environment and these have been "brainwashed" into them. What use does an elephant have in lifting a person with their trunk?
They haven't got enough branches to pull from trees, they can't roll in the mud like in the wild to get rid of parasites, they are in a social group that doesn't match the wild.
Someone please explain to me how it is educational for people to see animals perform in a circus? How does that help them survive? They may look fantastic in the ring, but remember it is an act and not representative of how they have to endure the wrong living conditions and being put in confined cages when travelling around with the circus.
Using animals in circusses is a barbaric and outdated form of entertainment and should be banned. The "not aso great british circus" pitches the tent on private land so they can get round the local laws, isn't that a clue that something is wrong with what they do?

MikeFisher wrote:
First of all there are 2 types of elephant, african and asian. They've been put together eventhough they are different species and in the wild would never be in touch with each other. Secondly the conditions they are in don't even meet the RSPCA conditions for keeping animals in a zoo, so why is it acceptable to keep them in a circus? Thirdly they perform tricks they would never do in their natural environment and these have been "brainwashed" into them. What use does an elephant have in lifting a person with their trunk?
They haven't got enough branches to pull from trees, they can't roll in the mud like in the wild to get rid of parasites, they are in a social group that doesn't match the wild.
Someone please explain to me how it is educational for people to see animals perform in a circus? How does that help them survive? They may look fantastic in the ring, but remember it is an act and not representative of how they have to endure the wrong living conditions and being put in confined cages when travelling around with the circus.
Using animals in circusses is a barbaric and outdated form of entertainment and should be banned. The "not aso great british circus" pitches the tent on private land so they can get round the local laws, isn't that a clue that something is wrong with what they do?

Oh yeh Oh yeh!!

People with views like you released mink into the wild and look at the devastation they have caused.

Using 'animals' as you state is an utter crap statement we have and will use animals forever.

Your views surely must not stop at animals in a circus otherwise your theory does not make sense only circus animals would benefit.

If we all took your stupid look at life does that mean by keeping all our dogs on leads is cruel, keeping fish in an aquarium is cruel, keeping a budgie in a cage is cruel the list goes on.

Take you head out of the elephants 'backside' and open your eyes to the real world.

The truth is we should look at how well we treat our animals in our custody NOT release them all on some bird brain thoughtless ideal world theory.

evilc wrote:

MikeFisher wrote: First of all there are 2 types of elephant, african and asian. They've been put together eventhough they are different species and in the wild would never be in touch with each other. Secondly the conditions they are in don't even meet the RSPCA conditions for keeping animals in a zoo, so why is it acceptable to keep them in a circus? Thirdly they perform tricks they would never do in their natural environment and these have been "brainwashed" into them. What use does an elephant have in lifting a person with their trunk? They haven't got enough branches to pull from trees, they can't roll in the mud like in the wild to get rid of parasites, they are in a social group that doesn't match the wild. Someone please explain to me how it is educational for people to see animals perform in a circus? How does that help them survive? They may look fantastic in the ring, but remember it is an act and not representative of how they have to endure the wrong living conditions and being put in confined cages when travelling around with the circus. Using animals in circusses is a barbaric and outdated form of entertainment and should be banned. The "not aso great british circus" pitches the tent on private land so they can get round the local laws, isn't that a clue that something is wrong with what they do?

Oh yeh Oh yeh!! People with views like you released mink into the wild and look at the devastation they have caused. Using 'animals' as you state is an utter crap statement we have and will use animals forever. Your views surely must not stop at animals in a circus otherwise your theory does not make sense only circus animals would benefit. If we all took your stupid look at life does that mean by keeping all our dogs on leads is cruel, keeping fish in an aquarium is cruel, keeping a budgie in a cage is cruel the list goes on. Take you head out of the elephants 'backside' and open your eyes to the real world. The truth is we should look at how well we treat our animals in our custody NOT release them all on some bird brain thoughtless ideal world theory.

i agree with mike fisher 100%, elephants should be in the wild and not in a circus or a zoo, and comparing them with the likes of say a mink or a dog on a lead is pretty stupid thing to say...........

You dont have to go and watch if you dont want to. Some people are impressed by watching the animals perform and get enjoyment from it. Stop trying to impose your outlook on life onto others and give people the credit to decide for themselves.

fletch12107 wrote:
You dont have to go and watch if you dont want to. Some people are impressed by watching the animals perform and get enjoyment from it. Stop trying to impose your outlook on life onto others and give people the credit to decide for themselves.

thought the point of all this was to do with the welfare of the animals..

The Romans enjoyed watching lions kill humans, shall we bring that to Rochford too?

I think all circuses with animals should be banned.

evilc wrote:

MikeFisher wrote:
First of all there are 2 types of elephant, african and asian. They've been put together eventhough they are different species and in the wild would never be in touch with each other. Secondly the conditions they are in don't even meet the RSPCA conditions for keeping animals in a zoo, so why is it acceptable to keep them in a circus? Thirdly they perform tricks they would never do in their natural environment and these have been "brainwashed" into them. What use does an elephant have in lifting a person with their trunk?
They haven't got enough branches to pull from trees, they can't roll in the mud like in the wild to get rid of parasites, they are in a social group that doesn't match the wild.
Someone please explain to me how it is educational for people to see animals perform in a circus? How does that help them survive? They may look fantastic in the ring, but remember it is an act and not representative of how they have to endure the wrong living conditions and being put in confined cages when travelling around with the circus.
Using animals in circusses is a barbaric and outdated form of entertainment and should be banned. The "not aso great british circus" pitches the tent on private land so they can get round the local laws, isn't that a clue that something is wrong with what they do?

Oh yeh Oh yeh!!

People with views like you released mink into the wild and look at the devastation they have caused.

Using 'animals' as you state is an utter crap statement we have and will use animals forever.

Your views surely must not stop at animals in a circus otherwise your theory does not make sense only circus animals would benefit.

If we all took your stupid look at life does that mean by keeping all our dogs on leads is cruel, keeping fish in an aquarium is cruel, keeping a budgie in a cage is cruel the list goes on.

Take you head out of the elephants 'backside' and open your eyes to the real world.

The truth is we should look at how well we treat our animals in our custody NOT release them all on some bird brain thoughtless ideal world theory.

Maybe you should do your research a bit better.
And for your information I care about all animals whether they are pets or not. I support "Animal Aid", "CAPS", and many other animal welfare organisations. Maybe you live in a world where you like to be the master of all creation and put humas at the top of the chain. Maybe you should take your head out of your own backside and realise that making animals perform in a circus is against their nature and does nothing for their welfare and educates people only in the sense that it's ok to mistreat and use animals for entertainment. It is not natural for elephants to sit up, or teach tigers to be afraid of a whip and do tricks for your pleasure.
Do you realize that the RSPCA has clearly stated that animals should not be used in a circus as the conditions they are kept in is below the standard set for keeping animals in a zoo. Do you also realize that the majority of councils in England have actually banned circusses with animals? Do you know that many shopkeepers displaying the posters take them down after being confronted with the facts?
I could go on and on, but people like you live in a fantasy world where everything on this planet is there for their use and abuse.
Rant over.

fletch12107 wrote:
You dont have to go and watch if you dont want to. Some people are impressed by watching the animals perform and get enjoyment from it. Stop trying to impose your outlook on life onto others and give people the credit to decide for themselves.

That argument doesn't work. It is you who is trying to impose your views on me. I don't impose, I try to educate people with the facts.
Go to a circus without animals and enjoy what we as humans are capable of. The days of circusses like "The NOT SO great British Circus" are coming to an end.

I went to this circus on Tuesday and will not go to a circus with animals again. The elephants looked really old and so sad and it felt soooo wrong. Elephants, tigers and all animals don't belong in a circus!

MikeFisher wrote:

evilc wrote:

MikeFisher wrote: First of all there are 2 types of elephant, african and asian. They've been put together eventhough they are different species and in the wild would never be in touch with each other. Secondly the conditions they are in don't even meet the RSPCA conditions for keeping animals in a zoo, so why is it acceptable to keep them in a circus? Thirdly they perform tricks they would never do in their natural environment and these have been "brainwashed" into them. What use does an elephant have in lifting a person with their trunk? They haven't got enough branches to pull from trees, they can't roll in the mud like in the wild to get rid of parasites, they are in a social group that doesn't match the wild. Someone please explain to me how it is educational for people to see animals perform in a circus? How does that help them survive? They may look fantastic in the ring, but remember it is an act and not representative of how they have to endure the wrong living conditions and being put in confined cages when travelling around with the circus. Using animals in circusses is a barbaric and outdated form of entertainment and should be banned. The "not aso great british circus" pitches the tent on private land so they can get round the local laws, isn't that a clue that something is wrong with what they do?

Oh yeh Oh yeh!! People with views like you released mink into the wild and look at the devastation they have caused. Using 'animals' as you state is an utter crap statement we have and will use animals forever. Your views surely must not stop at animals in a circus otherwise your theory does not make sense only circus animals would benefit. If we all took your stupid look at life does that mean by keeping all our dogs on leads is cruel, keeping fish in an aquarium is cruel, keeping a budgie in a cage is cruel the list goes on. Take you head out of the elephants 'backside' and open your eyes to the real world. The truth is we should look at how well we treat our animals in our custody NOT release them all on some bird brain thoughtless ideal world theory.

Maybe you should do your research a bit better. And for your information I care about all animals whether they are pets or not. I support "Animal Aid", "CAPS", and many other animal welfare organisations. Maybe you live in a world where you like to be the master of all creation and put humas at the top of the chain. Maybe you should take your head out of your own backside and realise that making animals perform in a circus is against their nature and does nothing for their welfare and educates people only in the sense that it's ok to mistreat and use animals for entertainment. It is not natural for elephants to sit up, or teach tigers to be afraid of a whip and do tricks for your pleasure. Do you realize that the RSPCA has clearly stated that animals should not be used in a circus as the conditions they are kept in is below the standard set for keeping animals in a zoo. Do you also realize that the majority of councils in England have actually banned circusses with animals? Do you know that many shopkeepers displaying the posters take them down after being confronted with the facts? I could go on and on, but people like you live in a fantasy world where everything on this planet is there for their use and abuse. Rant over.

http://www.bornfree.
org.uk/campaigns/zoo
-check/circuses-perf
orming-animals/circu
s-elephants/

The Echo is to be congratulated for this article and the additional comment on p.8 of the 13th Aug edtion.
All performing animals in circuses lead an impoverished and unnatural life.
The Captive Animals' Protection Society (CAPS) works closely with other animal protection charities, including the RSPCA, to bring about an end to the use of performing animals in circuses, such as the 3 elephants in the Great British Circus.
We would urge all those not wishing to see these elephants and other animals leading a life of misery in circuses, to make their views known.
Please write to:
Jim Fitzpatrick MP
Minister of State
DEFRA
Nobel House
London SW1P 3JR

For further details, please go the Captive Animals' Protection Society's website: www.captiveanimals.o
rg/news/2009/edm.htm
l

Garry Sheen
Development Director
Captive Animals' Protection Society
PO Box 4186
Manchester
M60 3ZA

GarrySheen wrote:
The Echo is to be congratulated for this article and the additional comment on p.8 of the 13th Aug edtion.
All performing animals in circuses lead an impoverished and unnatural life.
The Captive Animals' Protection Society (CAPS) works closely with other animal protection charities, including the RSPCA, to bring about an end to the use of performing animals in circuses, such as the 3 elephants in the Great British Circus.
We would urge all those not wishing to see these elephants and other animals leading a life of misery in circuses, to make their views known.
Please write to:
Jim Fitzpatrick MP
Minister of State
DEFRA
Nobel House
London SW1P 3JR

For further details, please go the Captive Animals' Protection Society's website: www.captiveanimals.o

rg/news/2009/edm.htm

l

Garry Sheen
Development Director
Captive Animals' Protection Society
PO Box 4186
Manchester
M60 3ZA

And stop eating them !!

Get a life in the real world.

I went to the circus a few years back when my children were young. I thought it would be good to see. In fact it was very sad and quite frankly an extremely boring show. The animals did not look at all happy in fact they looked downright depressed. I would never go to an animal circus ever again-it just makes me sad to think about what I saw.No doubt the owners do love their animals and take care of them but animals should have their needs put above any other issue and performing in circus shows cannot be what they need to live long and happy lives.

Does anyone really have the time or inclination to read these "epic" posts.

Better not mention trying some smoked whale meat recently :)

Can't make a comment because this subject makes me so angry

The only thing i will say is MikeFisher - i make you right = 100%.

MikeFisher wrote:
First of all there are 2 types of elephant, african and asian. They've been put together eventhough they are different species and in the wild would never be in touch with each other. Secondly the conditions they are in don't even meet the RSPCA conditions for keeping animals in a zoo, so why is it acceptable to keep them in a circus? Thirdly they perform tricks they would never do in their natural environment and these have been "brainwashed" into them. What use does an elephant have in lifting a person with their trunk? They haven't got enough branches to pull from trees, they can't roll in the mud like in the wild to get rid of parasites, they are in a social group that doesn't match the wild. Someone please explain to me how it is educational for people to see animals perform in a circus? How does that help them survive? They may look fantastic in the ring, but remember it is an act and not representative of how they have to endure the wrong living conditions and being put in confined cages when travelling around with the circus. Using animals in circusses is a barbaric and outdated form of entertainment and should be banned. The "not aso great british circus" pitches the tent on private land so they can get round the local laws, isn't that a clue that something is wrong with what they do?

so they are multi cultural elephants just like us now africans put with asians lol . If elephants are and i do believe they are being treated well i cant see why people whinge so much, seeing as foxes and badgers are protected let the elephants free to go through my black sacks then the animal lovers will want them shot

I used to love "Nellie The Elephant" on Family Favourites but reckon it's politically incorrect to still enjoy that anymore. "Circus Boy" on tv and Cecil B's epic "Greatest Show On Earth" loved 'em but all taboo now, such a nostalgic shame. Trumped again.

Captive Animals’ Protection Society member and Basildon MP Angela Smith make my blood boil.

She speaks loud in PR animal welfare stunts in the papers all the time, yet supports a government that allows the brutal halal and kosher animal slaughter by exempting these practices from cruelty laws.

People on here champion the elephants and tiger but miss the poor old sheep and cows cruelly killed under their noses, should not our compassion be extended to all animals.

The Farm Animal Welfare Council (FAWC) says the way Kosher and Halal meat is produced causes severe suffering to animals http://news.bbc.co.u
k/1/hi/uk/2977086.st
m even the

RSPCA who first supported the governments exemption now want to initiate a ban after a scientific study by among others, the Government’s Farm Animal Welfare Council found that animals could remain fully conscious for up to two minutes (some studies found 5 minutes ) after having their throats cut, it said all animals should be stunned before slaughter http://www.express.c
o.uk/posts/view/8390
2 look at the slaughter on you tube and make your own mind up.

As in the words of evilc "The truth is we should look at how well we treat animals in our custody" maybe the fake Angela Smith MP should not be politically correctly licking the anuses of the immigrants and truly show compassion for ALL animals with no exemptions along with all the idiots squealing about animal welfare and not just the ones that fit in with her political agenda and support an outright ban on halal and kosher slaughter.

Animals do not belong in a circus.It is not natural for them to do tricks like the ones being performed.The methods used to "train" them are cruel and barbaric.Why do you wish to seek enjoyment out of another's suffering?
Ban & Boycott any circus which uses live animal acts.

evilc wrote:

MikeFisher wrote: First of all there are 2 types of elephant, african and asian. They've been put together eventhough they are different species and in the wild would never be in touch with each other. Secondly the conditions they are in don't even meet the RSPCA conditions for keeping animals in a zoo, so why is it acceptable to keep them in a circus? Thirdly they perform tricks they would never do in their natural environment and these have been "brainwashed" into them. What use does an elephant have in lifting a person with their trunk? They haven't got enough branches to pull from trees, they can't roll in the mud like in the wild to get rid of parasites, they are in a social group that doesn't match the wild. Someone please explain to me how it is educational for people to see animals perform in a circus? How does that help them survive? They may look fantastic in the ring, but remember it is an act and not representative of how they have to endure the wrong living conditions and being put in confined cages when travelling around with the circus. Using animals in circusses is a barbaric and outdated form of entertainment and should be banned. The "not aso great british circus" pitches the tent on private land so they can get round the local laws, isn't that a clue that something is wrong with what they do?

Oh yeh Oh yeh!! People with views like you released mink into the wild and look at the devastation they have caused. Using 'animals' as you state is an utter crap statement we have and will use animals forever. Your views surely must not stop at animals in a circus otherwise your theory does not make sense only circus animals would benefit. If we all took your stupid look at life does that mean by keeping all our dogs on leads is cruel, keeping fish in an aquarium is cruel, keeping a budgie in a cage is cruel the list goes on. Take you head out of the elephants 'backside' and open your eyes to the real world. The truth is we should look at how well we treat our animals in our custody NOT release them all on some bird brain thoughtless ideal world theory.

You really are, quite something. What, though, I'm not too certain of, but, obnoxious is one of the words that comes to mind.

To the people who think it is a personal choice whether they visit a circus with wild animals I'd like to ask whether they think slavery should be a personal choice. To end slavery a few good people had to fight the majority who believed it was their personal choice to keep slaves and that as long as they 'looked after' them they saw nothing wrong in it.
These animals have a right to live free just as we do. Elephants are very emotionally highly evolved and scientists believe they have more evolved empathy than humans. No wonder they 'look depressed'!
I have seen what happens when one of these depressed creatures hits rock bottom and decides to break out, run rampage through the streets killing innocent passers by. I wonder if those same people would say that was the elephants personal choice?
See it for yourself:
http://video.google.
co.uk/videoplay?doci
d=636187296413030814
2&hl=en

MikeFisher wrote:
First of all there are 2 types of elephant, african and asian. They've been put together eventhough they are different species and in the wild would never be in touch with each other. Secondly the conditions they are in don't even meet the RSPCA conditions for keeping animals in a zoo, so why is it acceptable to keep them in a circus? Thirdly they perform tricks they would never do in their natural environment and these have been "brainwashed" into them. What use does an elephant have in lifting a person with their trunk?
They haven't got enough branches to pull from trees, they can't roll in the mud like in the wild to get rid of parasites, they are in a social group that doesn't match the wild.
Someone please explain to me how it is educational for people to see animals perform in a circus? How does that help them survive? They may look fantastic in the ring, but remember it is an act and not representative of how they have to endure the wrong living conditions and being put in confined cages when travelling around with the circus.
Using animals in circusses is a barbaric and outdated form of entertainment and should be banned. The "not aso great british circus" pitches the tent on private land so they can get round the local laws, isn't that a clue that something is wrong with what they do?
Oh yeh Oh yeh!!

People with views like you released mink into the wild and look at the devastation they have caused.

Using 'animals' as you state is an utter crap statement we have and will use animals forever.

Your views surely must not stop at animals in a circus otherwise your theory does not make sense only circus animals would benefit.

If we all took your stupid look at life does that mean by keeping all our dogs on leads is cruel, keeping fish in an aquarium is cruel, keeping a budgie in a cage is cruel the list goes on.

Take you head out of the elephants 'backside' and open your eyes to the real world.

The truth is we should look at how well we treat our animals in our custody NOT release them all on some bird brain thoughtless ideal world theory.
Maybe you should do your research a bit better.
And for your information I care about all animals whether they are pets or not. I support "Animal Aid", "CAPS", and many other animal welfare organisations. Maybe you live in a world where you like to be the master of all creation and put humas at the top of the chain. Maybe you should take your head out of your own backside and realise that making animals perform in a circus is against their nature and does nothing for their welfare and educates people only in the sense that it's ok to mistreat and use animals for entertainment. It is not natural for elephants to sit up, or teach tigers to be afraid of a whip and do tricks for your pleasure.
Do you realize that the RSPCA has clearly stated that animals should not be used in a circus as the conditions they are kept in is below the standard set for keeping animals in a zoo. Do you also realize that the majority of councils in England have actually banned circusses with animals? Do you know that many shopkeepers displaying the posters take them down after being confronted with the facts?
I could go on and on, but people like you live in a fantasy world where everything on this planet is there for their use and abuse.
Rant over.


I completely agree with Mike and every one else that shares his opinion. As already said by others elephants are intelligent and social animals that live in large family groups, who feel loss and grieve family members when they die, they are emotional animals who travel great distances. In circuses they are kept in small groups, most probably having been taken away from a larger group, not given the freedom to roam miles, wallow, swim, socialise, or carry out any kind of natural behaviour whatsoever. In fact they are literally forced (by fear and pain) to carry out completely unnatural tasks that they would never do in the wild, and are in fact harmful and detrimental to their health and well being (standing on 2 legs etc). Elephants live a very long time so to be made to live such a miserable existence just doesn't even bear thinking about, it's no wonder they look so unhappy and develop psychological problems. And to the person who said they look healthy, well there's a difference between being physically healthy and mentally - the clinically insane can look as healthy as the next person can they not. And anyway, yes of course the circus's would want their animals to appear healthy to keep the customers coming, but would you be able to see bruises and scars from whipping and beating anyway.

Do you really think people are going to read all of that ?

If you can't get your point across in a couple of short paragraphs, you've lost the argument.

Do you really think people are going to read all of that ?

If you can't get your point across in a couple of short paragraphs, you've lost the argument.

Doh !!

Crikey! This is going on a bit!Interesting to see so many different reasons for and against, though. Personally, I don't agree with circus events. Only ever went to one, and it was awful.

pressure is still on this circus. sky news today.

http://news.sky.com/
skynews/Home/UK-News
/Circus-Violence-Ele
phants-At-Great-Brit
ish-Circus-Are-Secre
tly-Filmed-Being-Bea
ten/Article/20090831
5364790?lpos=UK_News
_Carousel_Region_2&l
id=ARTICLE_15364790_
Circus_Violence%3A_E
lephants_At_Great_Br
itish_Circus_Are_Sec
retly_Filmed_Being_B
eaten

Why is it necessary to film covertly ?

It does seem a bit mean to keep an elephant away from it's own homeland, not many other elephants to talk to in Britain.

This story is certainly getting a lot of posts. It's rivaling those on driving, and the obituary columns for boy racers who go out and kill themselves.

All animals shuld be eaten yum yum, bring back horse meat.

Efilumps deserve what they get there stupid dumb usless smelly ugly animals

evilc, nice to see you spouting your particular flavour of bile on this topic too! APR - "why do they have to film covertly?", er... why do you think "can we do that shot of you hitting the elephant again please, the light was all wrong..."

I suppose ... "filming covertly" ... adds a bit of drama to the story :)

Is filming allowed during the circus performance ?