Man made threats after being asked for cash to get his motorbike back (From Echo)

I feel really sorry for this guy.

The Police used to be responsible for the recovering property it was always taken to the Police Station for fingerprinting which is good practice NOW the Police automatically get these slick companies to recover property charging exorbitant prices for recovery and storage.

I feel that the Police really should offer the owner the first chance to recover the property.

This system is completely unjust, and the Police again are trying to run as a business which is not in the best interest as the public always.

Completely agree. Only in this joke of a country would something like this happen! HE had HIS bike stolen and HE was told to pay £150! WTF??????? Absolute complete and utter insanity; the company deserve everything they get! How is this legal??? I honestly cant fathom this - A system that charges the victim! Whoever made up that law/loophole or whatever it is needs a good slap! If ur reading this I really do hope you get your bike back and get things in order (obviously without having to pay this mind-boggling charge)!

Im sure police dont have the facilities to recover and store countless stolen/use in crime vehicles. im sure they also dont have the budget to fund this either. should your vehicle be stolen then your insurance company would pick up the recovery bill. I agree that this is not ideal and i believe that when suspects are arrested and convicted then the courts should enforce compensation from them to the victim covering all costs incurred. However we are a long way from this with the courts not even giving proper sentances (see the above sentance for irony) let alone proper compensation.
This bloke has made a rod for his own back by harassing the recovery firms employees which were only doing their job! im sure John Dornan wouldnt be so helpful towards me if i was harassing him for doing his job!

fancy experiencing two thefts!
one by a crook and the second the police. this is not a matter about storage, or even the threatening emails. it is about the recovery of a stolen bike. what is the first thing to do? tell the owner. he would then collect it. not rob him of £150! sue the police for theft!

oh blimey! poor sod

I am pretty sure the bike is being held illegally if it was fully taxed, insured and was not causing an obstruction when recovered.

Everyone needs to study law now

123xxx wrote:
oh blimey! poor sod I am pretty sure the bike is being held illegally if it was fully taxed, insured and was not causing an obstruction when recovered. Everyone needs to study law now

that s the problem here the bike wasn t insured or i belive taxed. Although it was 'off the road'.

Penalised for being a victim of theft, outrageous! Although he shouldn't have made personal threats. I hope he apologised.

This happened to me. The police impound these vehicles so that they can look for forensic evidence.
In my case it took weeks and Canute charged the obligatory £150.
Sounds like a cosy little arrangement to me. Who agrees to all this?
If the police have to keep the vehicle to complete their business and they havn't got the space, why should the public be liable for the cost of private storage.
Another example of this country going mad.
As an aside, the police found the culprit via dna, but the CPS did not prosecute as it was not in the public interest. Even though 'chummy' had previous form.
Ho hum.

Surely the expression 'size does not matter' plays an important part here.

i.e if the Police raid a home and recover stolen jewellery surely they seize it for the following reasons:

1. For forensic testing.
2. For evidential purposes.

As for cost and storage a fair comment BUT why should there be a cost implication because of a difference in size?

That is not fair or correct.

If I reported my cycle stolen and the Police found it that surely MUST mean that it becomes their responsibility for safe keeping, I would sue if they failed that obligation.

This change of procedure is very recent in fact during this rotten Governments period, another case of being more interest in looking after the lawless than the lawful.

There must be a joke about "The Bill" somewhere in this story.

Yep the system lets us down again :(

R85 wrote:
Completely agree. Only in this joke of a country would something like this happen! HE had HIS bike stolen and HE was told to pay £150! WTF??????? Absolute complete and utter insanity; the company deserve everything they get! How is this legal??? I honestly cant fathom this - A system that charges the victim! Whoever made up that law/loophole or whatever it is needs a good slap! If ur reading this I really do hope you get your bike back and get things in order (obviously without having to pay this mind-boggling charge)!

thanks but i think i have lost my bike for good

thanks for all the comments guys i appreciate it

westcliff willi wrote:

123xxx wrote:
oh blimey! poor sod I am pretty sure the bike is being held illegally if it was fully taxed, insured and was not causing an obstruction when recovered. Everyone needs to study law now

that s the problem here the bike wasn t insured or i belive taxed. Although it was 'off the road'.

hi it was still taxed and mot but was off the road in my garden i cancelled insurance when i was laid off

Right i'm going to be blunt and honest - for once

My car was stolen in Jan 09, recovered and I had to collect it from the Met Police pound in Charlton (that was an experience I never wish to repeat) - I paid £150 too and got it back - didn't claim on my insurance, I was just happy to have the car.

Now yes this is disgusting, and yes there should be a way in which you can pay or defer payment. After all if the thief is caught and convicted they'll have to pay costs. It is wrong for the victims to pay. Yes that's what insurance is for, but I didn't want to lose my NCB (pointless as I had a crash 3 weeks later anyway!)

But tazmyk - I have lost a bit of respect for you after reading this. There are better ways to go about things than sending abusive, threatening and personal emails to staff members of a company that are following procedure. Despite every avenue being exhausted, no one should ever be driven to become the criminal, and that's what this was, a criminal act.

Yes the system needs changing, but resorting to the tactics of a child in a name calling row (albeit worse with threats) is not going to help.

But the system DOES need changing, those who drive without tax of insurance (for which I have again been on the receiving end due to a mistake on my behalf involving my paperwork, and i own up to it and am happy to have paid and accepted the points as it was a genuine mistake, I wasn't out to deceive or beat the system!) should pay for storage. The victims shouldn't.

I just cannot condone your actions, I hope you understand that - but I'll happily join the fight for change.

PJR wrote:
Right i'm going to be blunt and honest - for once

My car was stolen in Jan 09, recovered and I had to collect it from the Met Police pound in Charlton (that was an experience I never wish to repeat) - I paid £150 too and got it back - didn't claim on my insurance, I was just happy to have the car.

Now yes this is disgusting, and yes there should be a way in which you can pay or defer payment. After all if the thief is caught and convicted they'll have to pay costs. It is wrong for the victims to pay. Yes that's what insurance is for, but I didn't want to lose my NCB (pointless as I had a crash 3 weeks later anyway!)

But tazmyk - I have lost a bit of respect for you after reading this. There are better ways to go about things than sending abusive, threatening and personal emails to staff members of a company that are following procedure. Despite every avenue being exhausted, no one should ever be driven to become the criminal, and that's what this was, a criminal act.

Yes the system needs changing, but resorting to the tactics of a child in a name calling row (albeit worse with threats) is not going to help.

But the system DOES need changing, those who drive without tax of insurance (for which I have again been on the receiving end due to a mistake on my behalf involving my paperwork, and i own up to it and am happy to have paid and accepted the points as it was a genuine mistake, I wasn't out to deceive or beat the system!) should pay for storage. The victims shouldn't.

I just cannot condone your actions, I hope you understand that - but I'll happily join the fight for change.

thank you pjr for being blunt and honest i did not want to resort to what i did but i had no option the police did nothing to help the goverment did nothing even writing to the PM did nothing so if they could not help i needed to go to court i could not afford a solicitor to proceed with a civil case which i would not win i had to do something non violent im not that sort of person and i was vindicated in that even the justice system says i was not fairly treated ... i knew i would never see my bike but if my case does help to change something in the future good my bike was taxed and mot but was off the road as i cancelled the insurance i was being honest and doing the right thing if my bike was taken because i was braking the law its my fault but this was not ...... if at anytime someone could have told me a different course of action i would have taken it but even an apology and an offer of payment was rejected you say there were better ways please tell me

Having re-read it, I can't think of any better ways, but resorting to personal and threatening emails was wrong, yet at least you see that.

I agree there needs to be change, and having been on both sides (victim and unknowing committee - but a committee nonetheless) I do sympathise with what's happened.

You say your vehicle was taxed and MOT'd but off the road - I've got a car sitting on my drive at the moment in exactly the same state - but I don't rely on it if it were stolen. You however, were going to rely on your bike at some point.

Out of interest, have you gone to the nationals? The Echo is good, but just a local rag at the end of the day. Tabloids may be the bane of the rational media world, but they can sensationalise a story. Having read back a bit, and being a Journo myself, I can pull a few things out which they should be interested in.

PJR wrote:
Having re-read it, I can't think of any better ways, but resorting to personal and threatening emails was wrong, yet at least you see that.

I agree there needs to be change, and having been on both sides (victim and unknowing committee - but a committee nonetheless) I do sympathise with what's happened.

You say your vehicle was taxed and MOT'd but off the road - I've got a car sitting on my drive at the moment in exactly the same state - but I don't rely on it if it were stolen. You however, were going to rely on your bike at some point.

Out of interest, have you gone to the nationals? The Echo is good, but just a local rag at the end of the day. Tabloids may be the bane of the rational media world, but they can sensationalise a story. Having read back a bit, and being a Journo myself, I can pull a few things out which they should be interested in.

hi thanks again and yes i did know it was wrong i have contacted the nationals by phone and e mail since this started but to no avail recentley sent them link to this article though and fingers crossed

It's a **** disgrace that this guy has been put through the wringer like this, he shouldn't have acted as he did, but this is the kind of thing that happens when people feel powerless.

I hope things get better for you, mate.

Surely the contract for storage of the bike is between the police and Canute, and not the company and tazmyk. This would be a cracker to be tested in court, and would put an end to the gravy train these companies are on.

Duckorange wrote:
Surely the contract for storage of the bike is between the police and Canute, and not the company and tazmyk. This would be a cracker to be tested in court, and would put an end to the gravy train these companies are on.

As I believe it, once the police are done with it, the car is released back to the owner who then has to accept costs of storage.

When my car was stolen it was in the pound for a week, but I was only charged 2 nights storage, the initial £150 then another £20 per night (sorry I stated I paid £150 earlier - that was the no insurance one). So the contract with the police is covered. Then it's the owners responsibility.

tazmyk, please let me know how you get on with the newspapers. I may be able to put a pitch in on your behalf if they don't come back to you :)

PJR wrote:

Duckorange wrote:
Surely the contract for storage of the bike is between the police and Canute, and not the company and tazmyk. This would be a cracker to be tested in court, and would put an end to the gravy train these companies are on.

As I believe it, once the police are done with it, the car is released back to the owner who then has to accept costs of storage.

When my car was stolen it was in the pound for a week, but I was only charged 2 nights storage, the initial £150 then another £20 per night (sorry I stated I paid £150 earlier - that was the no insurance one). So the contract with the police is covered. Then it's the owners responsibility.

tazmyk, please let me know how you get on with the newspapers. I may be able to put a pitch in on your behalf if they don't come back to you :)

cheers pjr
i sent the link a few days ago to the sun, mirror, and star but not heard anything yet

Tazmyk i remeber we spoke on this forum originaly when the bike was being witheld until payment.
I as a biker am sorry you have lost your bike.
But who is at fault here? lets go through the list
You= you parked if off road and never asked for it to be stolen
Police = they found and had the bike recovered for evidance and to prevent further loss
Canute (or any recovery agent) = they recovered the bike as requested to do so by essex police.
They are manned 24hrs a day all year with expensive equipment at the ready to collect damaged or stolen vehicles within 30 minutes of their control being advised they then store in a secure compound and usally undercover till the police have finished. All this costs a great deal and out of the 150 pounds there is possibly only a small profit to be had after wages fuel insurances and other costs.
The problem here is the system which was put in place to save the council tax payer 1000's and it was meant to move the cost to the insurance industry. sadly in your case the insurance wasnt there to pick up the bill.
There needs to be a system in place for people who are victims and cant pay but what system? canutes need paying as they have supplied a service they have been requested to give and iccured costs doing so.
The police have had to stop recovering themselves due to the cuts they have received and if they did have to pay what would happen, possibly more bikes and cars would be stolen. There needs to be a means tested assistance which should be funded from the victim surcharge courts are so happy to impose usally for 15 pounds on cases. Sadly this wont help you recover your motorcycle from the compound or pay the escalating costs that have been incured whilst this has been going on.
I suspect that this kind of situation isnt what canutes want either with distressed people wanting their vehicles back and being made to feel even more a victim but really it isnt their fault or the staff who work there, maybe they have taken a hard stance with you because they see this day in day out and overtime this causes people to be less sympathetic. good luck in the future

southendmechanic wrote:
Tazmyk i remeber we spoke on this forum originaly when the bike was being witheld until payment.
I as a biker am sorry you have lost your bike.
But who is at fault here? lets go through the list
You= you parked if off road and never asked for it to be stolen
Police = they found and had the bike recovered for evidance and to prevent further loss
Canute (or any recovery agent) = they recovered the bike as requested to do so by essex police.
They are manned 24hrs a day all year with expensive equipment at the ready to collect damaged or stolen vehicles within 30 minutes of their control being advised they then store in a secure compound and usally undercover till the police have finished. All this costs a great deal and out of the 150 pounds there is possibly only a small profit to be had after wages fuel insurances and other costs.
The problem here is the system which was put in place to save the council tax payer 1000's and it was meant to move the cost to the insurance industry. sadly in your case the insurance wasnt there to pick up the bill.
There needs to be a system in place for people who are victims and cant pay but what system? canutes need paying as they have supplied a service they have been requested to give and iccured costs doing so.
The police have had to stop recovering themselves due to the cuts they have received and if they did have to pay what would happen, possibly more bikes and cars would be stolen. There needs to be a means tested assistance which should be funded from the victim surcharge courts are so happy to impose usally for 15 pounds on cases. Sadly this wont help you recover your motorcycle from the compound or pay the escalating costs that have been incured whilst this has been going on.
I suspect that this kind of situation isnt what canutes want either with distressed people wanting their vehicles back and being made to feel even more a victim but really it isnt their fault or the staff who work there, maybe they have taken a hard stance with you because they see this day in day out and overtime this causes people to be less sympathetic. good luck in the future

hi i remember you alot has happened since then and i found out a few things
1 no forensic tests were done
2 the bike has been kept outside so with the cold snap water probably froze
3 monies paid is to the police not canute they are agents police pay them as a contract
4 i could have picked it up quiker then 30 mins as it was less then a mile away
but thanks for the comments i now have a kind legal proffesional on it and the future is looking a bit better

good stuff with regaurds to the forensic tests the officer who called the recovery agent wouldnt have known when he found the bike that none would take place his job is to secure the evidence and prevent possible contamination (even from yourself as the VRO)
The bike is proberbly outside now but until the police say they wont need to carry any out vehicles will be stored inside a locked secure building (this is the case due to evidence guidlines)
As far as my recalls the money is paid to canute and invoiced by them on collection or delivery of the vehicle
I remember at the time you said you could have collected the bike yourself quicker but the evidence guidlines prevent the police from giving the bike incase later on in the night or next few days discover the thief responsable.
This would have been very diffrent if they had discovered this person, your bike could have been the main peice of evidence in the court case and without it having been secured from discovery then a court case could have been destroyed and a conviction not possible.
Out of intrest do you still believe this was kids? or possibly something more organised that has been going on in southend basildon romofrd and tilbury?

southendmechanic wrote:
good stuff with regaurds to the forensic tests the officer who called the recovery agent wouldnt have known when he found the bike that none would take place his job is to secure the evidence and prevent possible contamination (even from yourself as the VRO)
The bike is proberbly outside now but until the police say they wont need to carry any out vehicles will be stored inside a locked secure building (this is the case due to evidence guidlines)
As far as my recalls the money is paid to canute and invoiced by them on collection or delivery of the vehicle
I remember at the time you said you could have collected the bike yourself quicker but the evidence guidlines prevent the police from giving the bike incase later on in the night or next few days discover the thief responsable.
This would have been very diffrent if they had discovered this person, your bike could have been the main peice of evidence in the court case and without it having been secured from discovery then a court case could have been destroyed and a conviction not possible.
Out of intrest do you still believe this was kids? or possibly something more organised that has been going on in southend basildon romofrd and tilbury?

not sure it is an organised thing there is guy across road from me with blade and his is better then mine and not touched
the bike was only held for a sunday only 1 day before they contacted me thats what grates me £150 to move it 20 miles and 1 day there i could have hired a man and a van cheaper
when found they knew where i was and there guidlines say they should have seeked my permission to recover would have said no they can do forensics at my house

there is a trade in sports bikes at the moment which seems a bit of a worrying trend. It seems they are being stolen to a list of desired models for spare parts or track bikes.
The spare parts situation seems to centre around tilbury and areas easily accessable and from what i understand involves the bike being stolen left at a location and then picked up a few hours to a day later and then transported for export.
It seems this way IF they are caught the worse they get is handling stolen goods.
The other trade is from people using them as track bikes or even cloning them with the element of also stripping for parts (big money can be made here if the bike is original)
Kids try hotwiring and generally take off roaders and small cc machines.
With reguards to the police saying they would have told you if they knew how close you lived i would ask to see a copy of the policy of recovery from essex police.
They have a duty to recover the vehicle for examination and release to the owner before this has been carried out is not allowed. At the time they wouldnt have known the complete details of the case (many people say bikes have been stolen when they have been crashed and have no insurance and many more are reported stolen when the owner is trying to claim on insurance knowing the bike wasnt taken by a 3rd party)
As said before my ZX10 was stolen and i got it back due to it being discovered in the cooling period (the time between theft and the people returning to collect it) it cost me a great deal of money after this to have the bike returned and repaired (the top yoke was smashed to remove the steering lock) with simular charges as yourself.
For most the charges are a small price to pay but i understand if you havent got the money then it is very frustrating to have a bike that belongs to you held ransom and incurring charges quicker than you can earn the money to recover the property from storage.
The system is wrong but i find it hard to blame the police for trying to save their time and resources or recovery agent who operate a fleet of trucks which are not cheap to run. The comments on here of people making lots of money from these contracts shows these posters have never had to pay to have a car or bike moved locations via a transporter out of hours.
I work in plant construction and material handling equipment and to move a small peice of equipment like a forklift can cost 300 pounds keeping it fairly locally.
My experiance of cars and bikes comes from a spell working for the insurance industry,vosa,and associated agencys

southendmechanic wrote:
there is a trade in sports bikes at the moment which seems a bit of a worrying trend. It seems they are being stolen to a list of desired models for spare parts or track bikes.
The spare parts situation seems to centre around tilbury and areas easily accessable and from what i understand involves the bike being stolen left at a location and then picked up a few hours to a day later and then transported for export.
It seems this way IF they are caught the worse they get is handling stolen goods.
The other trade is from people using them as track bikes or even cloning them with the element of also stripping for parts (big money can be made here if the bike is original)
Kids try hotwiring and generally take off roaders and small cc machines.
With reguards to the police saying they would have told you if they knew how close you lived i would ask to see a copy of the policy of recovery from essex police.
They have a duty to recover the vehicle for examination and release to the owner before this has been carried out is not allowed. At the time they wouldnt have known the complete details of the case (many people say bikes have been stolen when they have been crashed and have no insurance and many more are reported stolen when the owner is trying to claim on insurance knowing the bike wasnt taken by a 3rd party)
As said before my ZX10 was stolen and i got it back due to it being discovered in the cooling period (the time between theft and the people returning to collect it) it cost me a great deal of money after this to have the bike returned and repaired (the top yoke was smashed to remove the steering lock) with simular charges as yourself.
For most the charges are a small price to pay but i understand if you havent got the money then it is very frustrating to have a bike that belongs to you held ransom and incurring charges quicker than you can earn the money to recover the property from storage.
The system is wrong but i find it hard to blame the police for trying to save their time and resources or recovery agent who operate a fleet of trucks which are not cheap to run. The comments on here of people making lots of money from these contracts shows these posters have never had to pay to have a car or bike moved locations via a transporter out of hours.
I work in plant construction and material handling equipment and to move a small peice of equipment like a forklift can cost 300 pounds keeping it fairly locally.
My experiance of cars and bikes comes from a spell working for the insurance industry,vosa,and associated agencys

understand all what you say ... i dont think it was stolen to order as only damage was indicater where they dropped it and few scuff marks ignition and yoke all ok it was walked to were it was dumped and not started
like i said before canute are on fixed contract with police and there operating profit last year was £25M i just wanted some commen sence and decency to do the right thing