100 staff will clear up Dale Farm site (From Echo)

Its disgraceful spending all that money evicting people who's only crime is wanting to live in peace amongst their own people.

ivor hardon wrote:
Its disgraceful spending all that money evicting people who's only crime is wanting to live in peace amongst their own people.

Who's that then?

IVOR. Invite them to your area if you are that concerned.

ivor hardon wrote:
Its disgraceful spending all that money evicting people who's only crime is wanting to live in peace amongst their own people.

Why can't they just buy legal plots of land to settle on, like anybody else would have to?

I am assuming this is an attempt at 'irony'.
If not, may I suggest that living amongst 'their own people' should involve a trip across the Irish Sea.
No normal, decent people would choose to live off of the Taxpayer if they didn't have to!

I have nothing against the travellers aslong as they live by the rules that everyone else abides by, but they don't so they should be evicted,

If I built a wall in my garden too tall the council would rip it down & send me the bill so I want to know why they are not paying for it?

I think I am missing something somewhere. Travellers tend to travel around from place to place. When was the last time they travelled anywhere. True enough, they own some if not all of the land but they have broke the law. A law which they are not above.

ivor hardon wrote:
Its disgraceful spending all that money evicting people who's only crime is wanting to live in peace amongst their own people.

If they want to live amongst their own people, then why are they here in the UK, when their people live in Eire? I think you are confusing these Irish Tinkers with another group of immigrants to the UK, because they are not peaceful, and crime follows them wherever they go.

Auction the stuff to defray the costs of the operation.

There seems to be some discrimination going on here. If a non-traveller breaks planning laws and develops in green belt, then they have to cover the cost of demolition, and putting the land back to as it was before the illegal development. Why is this not the case here?

Also, If I park my car illegally and it is towed away, I have to pay the towing charge and the storgare cost before I can have the car back. What are the council going to charge the Irish tinkers to store their "caravans"?

I think we deserve answers.

Just re-read and have seen that charges wll be made for storage.

As always, over the past few months, there has been lots of protests in support of the Outlaws, lots of rhetoric from their representatives (the despicable Puxton et al).
Where is the support for the tax paying public that have endured (and paid for) this invasion. Where is our elected representative?
Mr Baron appears to have his head well down beneath the parapet!
Perhaps he could answer some questions that need answering ie
- why are laws applied differently to the Outlaws,
-why the Inland Revenue don't pay them a visit,
- why have the police kept their distance,
-why have the neighbours had no protection
-etc, etc, etc, etc

shallotman wrote:
IVOR. Invite them to your area if you are that concerned.

They are in my "area" as you put it,I live in oak road crays hill.

And I dare say a traveller too!

a council when it takes enforcement action claims a mortgage against the land that it has to registrer at Land Registry. It has to show that it has acted reasonably.. if it is to realise (get cash in) from the mortgage.

can't see basildon being able to do that with its own studies identifying that it needs to provide 152 gypsy plots.

I think a much more likely explanation is that bob neill gave tony ball a letter saying he would pick up all the council's costs (up to £1.2 m).. the staff are probably divvying up the overtime.. maybe the Cllrs are as well..

wonder if Tony Ball works for westco (or draws expenses).. the consultancy company established by Westminster Council.. remember the homes for votes scandal and Mrs Porter (Tesco) having to pay £12 million to be let back in the country having spent about £40 million of westminsters dosh trying to make it a safe conservative seat.. for herself and her pals.. Think that the same might be going on here.. but doubt Balls has the dosh to cover any unreasonable behaviour..

wonder how many s106 agreements basildon have registered at HM land Registry.. or if the cash has simply been 'trousered' by Cllr Balls and his mates..

the dedicated attention of up to 10 per cent of its staff? isn't this the right job for those on community service?

Could use those on community service to clear up the site, some real work might do wonders to the constitution.

These alien scumbags have not earned (nor made any attempt to earn) the respect of the local "settled" community. They are the authors of all their own problems and until they mend their ways and abide by the law we all have to obey, they have no place on English soil.

Ricayboy wrote:
These alien scumbags have not earned (nor made any attempt to earn) the respect of the local "settled" community. They are the authors of all their own problems and until they mend their ways and abide by the law we all have to obey, they have no place on English soil.

Good point.. If they had any sense they could of won the support of the local community who would be only to pleased to help them, but like most so called travellers they antagonise the whole surrounding community so much that no-one wants to help opr support them (note that all their so called supporters are from far afield, even as far as USA), whoknow knothing about the misery/crime/problem
s they bring to the area.

I note that in their website thay point out that if you are coming to support the travellers by train and get off at Wickford then it is veryu likley that the cab driver will refuse to drop you off at the site, prejudice some might say although others would claim it is simply common sense !

Andy

I agree with shallotman, let those on Community Service help to clear up and save taxpapers some money

ok , I have read the above posts and here is my view, I own a property and have had difficulty paying my council tax due to setting up my own business (as the government say they give new businesss support, yeah right !) , the council office told me that I would have to pay the whole amount or I would be taken to court , i could not at the time time do this so they decided to send round the bailiffs, I could not pay them either, so I then received a court summons for the whole amount !!!!, , I have upto now kept quiet , my point is do they get a court summons !!, it pis***s me off when they do not pay any taxes at all, oh and lastly, I decide to take my hard earned money and daughter for a cheap meal at the Dick Turpin for Sunday lunch , it was full of travellers with kids and men flashing their cash and new range rovers in the carpark, and before I get a comment saying you cant say that, id say the irish accent and provocative clothes give me the idea they were gypsies.

Now come on be fair. I have seen them do lots of travelling.
They travel to the One Stop shop at South Green , they also take their fuel cans to Chestnuts at Crays Hill and buy loads of Red Diesel for their fleet of combine harvesters and tractors.
I also see them cruising around in their brand new 4 X 4's .
Yep loads of travelling..........
......

THIS IS JUST WRONG! i'm not a traveller nor do i live in the area where they are im on the outskirts, I think people need to get there facts straight about them before they make comment you are all to quick to jump to the "tax"!! They DO pay tax!! just the council wont admit to that, they do put money into the community... they are also the ones taking you washing machines etc from you to save you paying charges and to help them support there familys. As for the comment about them breaking the law, you only notice these as loaw breakers because they have been made to stand out but your won discriminations... it is not just travellers who break the law... may i point out the word "CHAVs" this stands for council housed and violent... there are plenty of these "chavs" out there on the streets too, why are they not being pointed out??? There are aslo groups of black gangs about causing trouble! why are these not pointed out??? and discriminated!!
There are good honest people in the traveler community as mush as there are bad, its the same everywhere, if you are a traveler or a settler..... There are children who are going to be out on the streets, sick elderly people, anyone one of you agreeing to these HUMAN BEINGS being cursed out on the streets shoule be disgusted with yourselves!!

Go back to your caravan love!

Look if anyone is going to have that land as a traveller site it should be ENGLISH Gypsies NOT Irish tinkers. Why should our own travellers suffer? They are desperate for sites as well

Eire - take back your people and look after them. English first!

I am tired of being shafted by our weal, pandering government. Hardworking taxpayers are penalised at every which way, soft targets for paying for the benefits of lazy scroungers and cleaning up the mess left by the likes of disgusting, criminal, dirty so called "travellers". I have seen the filth they leave behind them and it is disgusting, inconsiderate and shows them for who they really are. They contribute nothing to our society. Maybe soon we will see a "British Taxpayers Uprising", and the prevention of the squandering of our hard earned money on such weak minded people.

lisacalkin wrote:
THIS IS JUST WRONG! i'm not a traveller nor do i live in the area where they are im on the outskirts, I think people need to get there facts straight about them before they make comment you are all to quick to jump to the "tax"!! They DO pay tax!! just the council wont admit to that, they do put money into the community... they are also the ones taking you washing machines etc from you to save you paying charges and to help them support there familys. As for the comment about them breaking the law, you only notice these as loaw breakers because they have been made to stand out but your won discriminations... it is not just travellers who break the law... may i point out the word "CHAVs" this stands for council housed and violent... there are plenty of these "chavs" out there on the streets too, why are they not being pointed out??? There are aslo groups of black gangs about causing trouble! why are these not pointed out??? and discriminated!! There are good honest people in the traveler community as mush as there are bad, its the same everywhere, if you are a traveler or a settler..... There are children who are going to be out on the streets, sick elderly people, anyone one of you agreeing to these HUMAN BEINGS being cursed out on the streets shoule be disgusted with yourselves!!

They pay tax do they! - I don't think so, most of them hava a wad of £20 notes on them all them time which tells me that everything they do is cash in hand.
Also, as for taking away washing machines etc for free, the council weill do if free as well.
Plus, I like you comment about these being 'good, honest people' - they don't know what honesty is.

lisacalkin wrote:
THIS IS JUST WRONG! i'm not a traveller nor do i live in the area where they are im on the outskirts, I think people need to get there facts straight about them before they make comment you are all to quick to jump to the "tax"!! They DO pay tax!! just the council wont admit to that, they do put money into the community... they are also the ones taking you washing machines etc from you to save you paying charges and to help them support there familys. As for the comment about them breaking the law, you only notice these as loaw breakers because they have been made to stand out but your won discriminations... it is not just travellers who break the law... may i point out the word "CHAVs" this stands for council housed and violent... there are plenty of these "chavs" out there on the streets too, why are they not being pointed out??? There are aslo groups of black gangs about causing trouble! why are these not pointed out??? and discriminated!! There are good honest people in the traveler community as mush as there are bad, its the same everywhere, if you are a traveler or a settler..... There are children who are going to be out on the streets, sick elderly people, anyone one of you agreeing to these HUMAN BEINGS being cursed out on the streets shoule be disgusted with yourselves!!

You poor deluded f*ckwit - these people are here trying to buck the system, abusing the neighbourhood by thieving and unsociable behaviour. They have alternate homes elsewhere but want to make a fast buck out of illegal property developing. They need to be evicted, the homes rased to the ground and them sent on their way. As for kids missing school and elderly going to die if evicted - it beggars belief! If only it were that easy!!

Lisa Calkin - Blatantly has 6 fingers and a moustache! Your sister is your mother, your daddy is your brother, you boyfriend is your brother, the calkin family

lisacalkin wrote:
THIS IS JUST WRONG! i'm not a traveller nor do i live in the area where they are im on the outskirts, I think people need to get there facts straight about them before they make comment you are all to quick to jump to the "tax"!! They DO pay tax!! just the council wont admit to that, they do put money into the community... they are also the ones taking you washing machines etc from you to save you paying charges and to help them support there familys. As for the comment about them breaking the law, you only notice these as loaw breakers because they have been made to stand out but your won discriminations... it is not just travellers who break the law... may i point out the word "CHAVs" this stands for council housed and violent... there are plenty of these "chavs" out there on the streets too, why are they not being pointed out??? There are aslo groups of black gangs about causing trouble! why are these not pointed out??? and discriminated!!
There are good honest people in the traveler community as mush as there are bad, its the same everywhere, if you are a traveler or a settler..... There are children who are going to be out on the streets, sick elderly people, anyone one of you agreeing to these HUMAN BEINGS being cursed out on the streets shoule be disgusted with yourselves!!

Ha ha ha, good one! (she was joking wasn't she?)

Ironman wrote:
I am assuming this is an attempt at 'irony'.
If not, may I suggest that living amongst 'their own people' should involve a trip across the Irish Sea.
No normal, decent people would choose to live off of the Taxpayer if they didn't have to!

Considering everyone in the UK is a descendent of immigrants where do yours come from so we know what to write on the label?

Travellers have been a part of British culture for over 600 years.

Who in particular lives off the taxpayer, do you have any names? Didn't Lady Di live off the taxpayer?

Ricayboy wrote:
These alien scumbags have not earned (nor made any attempt to earn) the respect of the local "settled" community. They are the authors of all their own problems and until they mend their ways and abide by the law we all have to obey, they have no place on English soil.

1) You have just broken race relations law.
2) What has the settled community done to earn the respect of the local 'traveller' community?
3) I get a feeling from the nasty tone of your post that your respect is out of the reach of many ordinary folk regardless.

andy:) wrote:

Ricayboy wrote:
These alien scumbags have not earned (nor made any attempt to earn) the respect of the local "settled" community. They are the authors of all their own problems and until they mend their ways and abide by the law we all have to obey, they have no place on English soil.

Good point.. If they had any sense they could of won the support of the local community who would be only to pleased to help them, but like most so called travellers they antagonise the whole surrounding community so much that no-one wants to help opr support them (note that all their so called supporters are from far afield, even as far as USA), whoknow knothing about the misery/crime/problem

s they bring to the area.

I note that in their website thay point out that if you are coming to support the travellers by train and get off at Wickford then it is veryu likley that the cab driver will refuse to drop you off at the site, prejudice some might say although others would claim it is simply common sense !

Andy

What would you say if a taxi driver refused to take you somewhere because of the atrocious nature of your English?

lovely wrote:
ok , I have read the above posts and here is my view, I own a property and have had difficulty paying my council tax due to setting up my own business (as the government say they give new businesss support, yeah right !) , the council office told me that I would have to pay the whole amount or I would be taken to court , i could not at the time time do this so they decided to send round the bailiffs, I could not pay them either, so I then received a court summons for the whole amount !!!!, , I have upto now kept quiet , my point is do they get a court summons !!, it pis***s me off when they do not pay any taxes at all, oh and lastly, I decide to take my hard earned money and daughter for a cheap meal at the Dick Turpin for Sunday lunch , it was full of travellers with kids and men flashing their cash and new range rovers in the carpark, and before I get a comment saying you cant say that, id say the irish accent and provocative clothes give me the idea they were gypsies.

I am impressed at your specific knowledge of the financial situation of individuals based on their accents and "provocative" clothing.

Do you also offer this skill in the form of free independent financial advice? ISAs, cash or investment?

ps you're a tax avoiding scumba6 leeching of the taxpayer. Fun, isn't it?

zipster31 wrote:
I am tired of being shafted by our weal, pandering government. Hardworking taxpayers are penalised at every which way, soft targets for paying for the benefits of lazy scroungers and cleaning up the mess left by the likes of disgusting, criminal, dirty so called "travellers". I have seen the filth they leave behind them and it is disgusting, inconsiderate and shows them for who they really are. They contribute nothing to our society. Maybe soon we will see a "British Taxpayers Uprising", and the prevention of the squandering of our hard earned money on such weak minded people.

Funnily enough, people that live in houses cost us more in clearing up their rubbish than all the travellers put together.

I take it you haven't been in Southend in the early hours of Sunday morning or after a bank holiday weekend?

perini wrote:

lisacalkin wrote:
THIS IS JUST WRONG! i'm not a traveller nor do i live in the area where they are im on the outskirts, I think people need to get there facts straight about them before they make comment you are all to quick to jump to the "tax"!! They DO pay tax!! just the council wont admit to that, they do put money into the community... they are also the ones taking you washing machines etc from you to save you paying charges and to help them support there familys. As for the comment about them breaking the law, you only notice these as loaw breakers because they have been made to stand out but your won discriminations... it is not just travellers who break the law... may i point out the word "CHAVs" this stands for council housed and violent... there are plenty of these "chavs" out there on the streets too, why are they not being pointed out??? There are aslo groups of black gangs about causing trouble! why are these not pointed out??? and discriminated!! There are good honest people in the traveler community as mush as there are bad, its the same everywhere, if you are a traveler or a settler..... There are children who are going to be out on the streets, sick elderly people, anyone one of you agreeing to these HUMAN BEINGS being cursed out on the streets shoule be disgusted with yourselves!!

You poor deluded f*ckwit - these people are here trying to buck the system, abusing the neighbourhood by thieving and unsociable behaviour. They have alternate homes elsewhere but want to make a fast buck out of illegal property developing. They need to be evicted, the homes rased to the ground and them sent on their way. As for kids missing school and elderly going to die if evicted - it beggars belief! If only it were that easy!!

I wonder if, like those lads on facebook, you'll get a long sentence for incitement?

The last time people called for Gypsies to be burned out of their homes they spoke German.

ps. your post has been reported to the police. Have fun.

Dr A Grass wrote:
Lisa Calkin - Blatantly has 6 fingers and a moustache! Your sister is your mother, your daddy is your brother, you boyfriend is your brother, the calkin family

Can you please explain that to me as I am trying to learn the art of intellectual adult debate? Thanks.

That was fun. Goodnight. X

ItscalledspinIcallit
lying wrote:

perini wrote:

lisacalkin wrote: THIS IS JUST WRONG! i'm not a traveller nor do i live in the area where they are im on the outskirts, I think people need to get there facts straight about them before they make comment you are all to quick to jump to the "tax"!! They DO pay tax!! just the council wont admit to that, they do put money into the community... they are also the ones taking you washing machines etc from you to save you paying charges and to help them support there familys. As for the comment about them breaking the law, you only notice these as loaw breakers because they have been made to stand out but your won discriminations... it is not just travellers who break the law... may i point out the word "CHAVs" this stands for council housed and violent... there are plenty of these "chavs" out there on the streets too, why are they not being pointed out??? There are aslo groups of black gangs about causing trouble! why are these not pointed out??? and discriminated!! There are good honest people in the traveler community as mush as there are bad, its the same everywhere, if you are a traveler or a settler..... There are children who are going to be out on the streets, sick elderly people, anyone one of you agreeing to these HUMAN BEINGS being cursed out on the streets shoule be disgusted with yourselves!!

You poor deluded f*ckwit - these people are here trying to buck the system, abusing the neighbourhood by thieving and unsociable behaviour. They have alternate homes elsewhere but want to make a fast buck out of illegal property developing. They need to be evicted, the homes rased to the ground and them sent on their way. As for kids missing school and elderly going to die if evicted - it beggars belief! If only it were that easy!!

I wonder if, like those lads on facebook, you'll get a long sentence for incitement? The last time people called for Gypsies to be burned out of their homes they spoke German. ps. your post has been reported to the police. Have fun.

Buy yourself a dictionary and look the meaning of the word 'razed' up. It doesn't mean burn or anything similar - it means to destroy or demolish - just as the council intends to do with these illegal developments!

Ha-ha, you do so entertain me. Firstly you didn't have a clue as to it's correct meaning as you initially spelt it wrong.

You then looked it up in hindsight which is why you have now spelled it correctly.

Unfortunately for you your ignorance has shone through brightly again because you said "razed" UP suggesting that you still have no clue as to the words you choose to use.

How can something that has been flattened be razed UP? It appears you have used your first misspelling to mean 'raise' as in lift up, lol.

Anyway, back to my original sentiment taking into account your correction.

The last time people called for the mass eviction and demolition of Gypsies homes they spoke German.

Happy now?

ItscalledspinIcallit
lying wrote:
Ha-ha, you do so entertain me. Firstly you didn't have a clue as to it's correct meaning as you initially spelt it wrong.

You then looked it up in hindsight which is why you have now spelled it correctly.

Unfortunately for you your ignorance has shone through brightly again because you said "razed" UP suggesting that you still have no clue as to the words you choose to use.

How can something that has been flattened be razed UP? It appears you have used your first misspelling to mean 'raise' as in lift up, lol.

Anyway, back to my original sentiment taking into account your correction.

The last time people called for the mass eviction and demolition of Gypsies homes they spoke German.

Happy now?

It seems to me as if the "up" was part of "look up", not part of "razed". Blimey, am defending Perini!!! However, I do admire your well-considered defence of the travellers, Itscalledetc., even if I don't agree with all of your sentiments.

With respect, what is your agenda? Why are you sticking up for the Travellers so much? Nobody is saying that every single individual from the travelling community is a troublemaker, but you have to ask yourself why travellers attract such a lot of bad publicity wherever they go? Is it all down to unfounded prejudice on the part of the settled community? Can you suggest any ways in which the Crays Hill Travellers have positively contributed to the community or even interacted with it in a way that would help to dispel negative stereotypes? I used to live in South Green and I have seen rude, surly traveller children in the shops who never seem to be at school. I have seen how their dads took over the local pub and ruined it. Can't you accept that there are a lot of questions that need to be asked about the traveller community and they way they play games and try and use the system? Most sensible people don't fall for the "victim" sob-story that you are peddling. Nobody is suggesting persecution of travellers, just a rigid enforcement of the law. Otherwise you make a mockery of the law and you create a two tier society. If the travellers are law-abiding then they need to be more open and transparent in the way they live, not isolating themselves from local communities.
As for your hackneyed liberal comment about us all being descended from immigrants, I find it offensive. Because the English are not deemed by you to be "racially pure" you expect us to put up with nonsense. Name me a country that doesn't consist of "immigrants" and their descendents. England is actually one of the most culturally homogenous countries in the world, at least it was before mass immigration started in the 1950s.
You seem to be a bit of a smart-alec but you are entitled to your opinion. I would just like to know why you are so sanctimonious and are defending the travellers so fervently. The worst that will happen to them is that they will move on to another community to make a whole lot of new friends there.

ItscalledspinIcallit
lying wrote:

Ricayboy wrote:
These alien scumbags have not earned (nor made any attempt to earn) the respect of the local "settled" community. They are the authors of all their own problems and until they mend their ways and abide by the law we all have to obey, they have no place on English soil.

1) You have just broken race relations law.
2) What has the settled community done to earn the respect of the local 'traveller' community?
3) I get a feeling from the nasty tone of your post that your respect is out of the reach of many ordinary folk regardless.

By the way, how would you suggest the settled community should show respect for the travellers? By inviting them round for a round of golf and afternoon tea at the local cafe?

If locals turned up near the traveller settlement they would probably be chased away and threatened, yet travellers use local facilities and roam freely wherever they want to go.

I was always taught to believe that if people came to a new community/area they should work hard to fit in an show willingness to be accepted. The onus is on the incomers to adapt to the established population and their community. Can you shut me up by giving me examples of how the Dale Farm lot have done that?

I did not mean to be offensive or to break any law. In fact I am not familiar with the nuances of the Race Relations Law. Don't you think that laws like this are being used in some ways to intimidate people and to suppress free speech?

Could those that support the travellers care to explain why they feel the need to break the law??

...


Forget race relations laws, they are breaking the law by living where they are, they are breaking the law by not declaring themselves or their businesses for tax. They are breaking the law by stealing from shops.


...


Yup stealing from shops, report my post to the Police if you like but you can't defend what I saw. 2 traveller women and a young girl (Identified by my daughter who goes to school with the young girl), traveller women send girl into shop with a handbag, girl makes her way to the make up and fills the handbag with cosmetics. I didn't see what happened next as I alerted a security guard.

....


Defend that.


......


Oh and as for race relations, notice I didn't use the 'P' word.

An alien according to the dictionary is:

1. An unnaturalized foreign resident of a country. Also called noncitizen.
2. A person from another and very different family, people, or place.
3. A person who is not included in a group; an outsider.

When compared to those in the settled community, isn't the term "alien" an appropriate one to use for Irish travellers? It's not derogatory, just descriptive. I would be considered an alien if I went to live in Dale Farm.

A "Scumbag" is a slang term used to refer to despicable people who break the generally-accepted norms and values of society. Nobody is calling people scumbags just for being travellers, but for breaking the planning law and antagonising locals. It would be wrong to victimise them for their "race" but it's not wrong to oppose their illegal actions. "Minorities" aren't the only ones with rights. What about the rights of the settled majority? The travellers are very aware of their "rights" but less so of their responsibilities.

The worst I said is that lawbreakers have no place "on English soil" i.e we should not accept breaking the law (crime) in our society. If somebody wants to argue that lawbreakers do have a legitimate place in our country and society then that's your prerogative.

Ok, several points.

1) I have had the pleasure of reading the local news in this local rag and it appears to me that the areas covered are infested with house dwelling scum yet I only read individual comments about individuals and not house dwellers as a group, or in fact as any group. Why?
2) The cradle of mankind is certainly not the UK therefore all of us are descendents of immigrants. The timeline is immaterial.
3) 90% of planning applications made by the travelling community are rejected in the initial stages compared to only 20% of the non traveller community.
4) The real people manipulating and cheating planning laws are the rich and they ain't doing it for the right to have somewhere to live. Why suddenly are ordinary people expressing such an interest in planning law to a level of posting some of the most vicious and hate filled stuff I've read on the back of it? What are their views on the recent planning laws the coalition have landed on us that will have a major impact on the greenbelt? I bet half of you haven't a fukcing clue about any of it.
5) Fly tipping by the settled community is massive compared to travellers yet nowhere do I read people living in houses called filthy scum bags as a group.
6) Why do so many on here make wild claims about criminal activity and people's finances yet cannot provide any evidence or apparently haven't passed on the information to the police? Is it just a coincidence that these statements exactly match known negative stereotypes?
7) It is not incumbent on any newcomer to attempt to act like the locals. That is pure cultural fascism. Some have been watching too much of the Wickerman.
8) I understand people's need to vent their spleen every now and then but some of the stuf posted on here is appalling and frightening in a civilised society.

Check out this website and see it from another angle.

http://www.jewify.or
g/

Essex: fly-tipping crackdown launched

By Beth Littler »

A new fight against people who dump rubbish is being launched.

The Countryside Alliance has launched its new Fly Tipping, Scrap It campaign aimed at reducing the incidents of fly-tipping in Essex, which currently stands at 21,000 per year and costs the taxpayer £1 million annually.

That figure does not include rubbish dumped on private land, where the owners are left to pick up the cleaning bill.

The organisation is currently going through a consultation phase, talking to landowners and the public and gaining an understanding of what is dumped and where in order to devise a method to stamp it out.

Farmer Nick Cotterel, who has lived at his farm in Birch for 36 years, has so far forked out tens of thousands of pounds to clear up dumped rubbish on his land.

On Sunday, yet another load of hazardous asbestos was dumped on his land, which will cost him more than £1,000 to have removed.

He said: "This just completely ruins the countryside.

"I have to spend a lot of my time and money clearing up other people's rubbish and it infuriates me.

"If it is left the rubbish could cause injury to other people's dogs or children, and you can't put a price on what that would mean.

"I would just like people to take their rubbish to the tip and for anyone who leaves it on my land I will delight in taking down their details and handing them to the authorities."

Alice Barnard, eastern regional director of the Countryside Alliance, said: "The problem for the countryside is that only one in every 100 fly-tippers are prosecuted as it is very hard to monitor.

"Nationally, 72 incidents of fly-tipping are recorded every minute and it costs £47 million a year to deal with.

"We want to encourage the public to feel strongly that this is wrong and call upon their local authorities to take action."

"If you fly-tip on private land the owner gets the stress of clearing it up and the bill. If you fly-tip on public land the taxpayer gets the bill. In both instances, as well as breaking the law, you are ruining the beauty of the countryside for everyone."

If residents spot fly-tippers in action, they should take a note of the registration number, the time, date and basic description of the offenders and call Colchester Council on 01206 282581 or the Environment Agency 24-hour information line on 0800 807060.

Yes, we all know that there are "scumbags" from all walks of life including from the "settled" community. However, what I think that people are concerned about is 1: The trouble (of various kinds) connected with travellers is disproportionately high considering their relatively small numbers. 2: There seems to be a sizeable element amongst travellers who consider it almost part of their culture to ingage in dubious/illegal activities and to disregard the needs of the wider community.
If this is just a minority of travellers, then the rest of their community needs to do more to encourage their friends to behave in a way that dispels negative stereotypes. Most of us are rightly appalled when we hear about brawling/fly-tipping
/illegal trading/stealing by members of our community, yet the advocates of the travellers seem to want to portray them as whiter than white and do not accept any wrong-doing whatsoevere by members of their community. I would suggest that lawlessness is endemic in traveller culture and is acceptable to many travellers (except when the TV cameras are on them.)
Of course we have no proof that travellers are tax evaders etc. but there are always lots of negative stories that crop up around traveller sites all over the country. The planning issue is just the tip of the iceberg.

For example, there was a traveller festival in South Woodham recently and over a weekend shops were robbed, people were defecating in gardens etc. On the Gazette website a barely-literate traveller boasted how he and his friends do not pay council tax because "it is being used to evict travellers." he forgets that it is also used to provide the roads he travels on and numerous other services that he takes advantage of.

We need to ask if all such stories are merely the result of prejudice, because there is a disproportionately high number of them.

The local community generally feel threatened by the travellers in Crays Hill. They are allowed to live in what amounts to a gated compound. If they were peaceful, friendly, law-abiding people then I am sure that nobody would have a problem with them at all. No other ethnic/cultural group would be allowed to isolate themselves in this way. We are all supposed to be "inclusive" and enjoy living in a "multicultural" society yet the travellers are allowed to be as exclusive as humanly possible. I understand this, as it is human nature to stick together with people who share a similar culture and background. Why is it acceptable for travellers to do this but not for other groups?

Nobody can force people by law to integrate, yet I do feel that it is human decency to make an effort to fit in when you come to somebody else's community. I am not saying the travellers should give up their identity in order to fit in, but they could be much more friendly and transparent. It's up to them to adapt and make efforts to win over the settled locals. Why should local people have to bend over backwards to accomodate and win the respect of incomers? They were there first.

If I went to live in a small Irish village I would try my best to be friendly and would try not to antagonise others, knowing that I am a foreign newcomer and that "when in Rome do as the Romans do." It isn't "cultural fascism" (whatever that means.) If people come and collectively make no effort to contribute positively or even socialise with local people and show them respect, can you blame locals for being suspicious of the newcomers? Of course there are non-travellers who do this as well, but the difference is that the travellers are doing this en masse in ghettos that they themselves have erected. Respect has to be earned and you reap what you sow. I am still waiting for examples of how travellers have "enriched" Crays Hill or contributed to the local community (apart from taking away old washing machines.) Maybe they should invite local schools to come on tours of their camp to celebrate the joys of diversity. We hear all about traveller rights. What about traveller responsibilities?

I would imagine that the reason why so many traveller planning applications are turned down is because of the scale of their plans and the impact they would have on local communities. England is a crowded country and we have to be very wise in how we manage our land use. The loss of the green belt is a concern, especially with the UK population set to rise significantly in coming years due in part to the last government's "open door" immigration policies. But that's another debate.

Of course in one sense we are all descended from immigrants, but that doesn't mean that we should constantly accept more, especially ones that refuse to integrate or play a positive role in our society. In my understanding the Romanys of old were much more law-abiding and respectable than the travellers of today and some Romanies I have met despise the Irish travellers for giving them a bad name.

By the way, if the travellers are an ethnic group with communal rights what about the rights of the English (or as you would probably have it White British) to protect and defend our identity and way of life? Why aren't we trying to force the travellers to embrace diversity?

One thing I do agree with you on is that we need to be wary of hatred against a certain group in the same way that the Nazis stirred up hatred against the Jewish people. However, I am sure that most people don't hate the travellers for being travellers, but because of the suspicion/antagonism they so often cause, because of the way they break the law but try to use "human rights" to suit them, because of the way that they come into an established community and cause conflict and problems. This has happened and is happening all over the country.

The Dale Farm saga has gone on long enough. The travellers must be evicted if we are not to make a mockery of the Law we all have to obey. They will not suffer too much from this as most of them probably have other homes in Ireland and other parts of England, as well as sizeable family and community networks and a whole host of do-gooding supporters. And as none of them seem to be struggling financially given their luxury cars, they should be ok when they just move on somewhere else.

I had a read of the "Jewify" website and I found it thought provoking, if a perhaps a little in bad taste.

I can't think of any examples of local people persecuting travellers on a personal daily level (as people in the Third Reich did to the Jews.) If there is animosity towards the travellers then it's because of their conduct, not because of some racial prejudice in most cases.

If anything it's the other way around. Many people feel threatened and intimidated by the travellers, scared to challenge them in any way for fear of reprisals. There is a local perception that the Police are also intimidated by the travellers and treat them more leniently than non-travellers.

Basildon Council is simply standing on principle, upholding the Law of the land. To call it "racist" is just unbelievable. Many non-travellers have fallen foul of planning laws which they ignored and had to suffer the consequences.

The Travellers seem to have a lot of money so if they want a home they should do what anybody else has to do: Buy a piece of land, get proper planning permission for any development they want to do and live within the law. Then nobody except a few idiots will have any problem with their presence at all.

One last thought: Why are so many of the people who are defending the Dale Farm community not travellers themselves? It seems that very few travellers are vocal, articulate leaders of the struggle to stay in Crays Hill. Where are all the men from the settlement? Why are they so reliant on liberal outsiders to fight their cause?

The point that I was trying to make regarding the shoplifting is that the travellers want us to believe they are law abiding, pillars of the community. The reality is that they are a bunch of thieves, cowboys and thugs.