Show banned after row over boys in fight cage (From Echo)
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Show banned after row over boys in fight cage
6:30pm Friday 16th December 2011 in News
A MARTIAL arts show has been banned following concern about young boys taking part in a demonstration in a fight cage.
The organisers have been told they cannot hold further events at Garon Park Leisure Centre, pending an investigation. It came after a picture of the boys, aged eight and nine, squaring up in the fight cage appeared in yesterday’s Echo with a report expressing concerns.
Southend Council, which owns the leisure centre, says the Ultimate Warrior Challenge broke a contract stating no under-18s should take part.
Dan Burzotta, 37, of Westcliff, who promotes the event which was held for the 18th time on Saturday, defended having the boys in the cage. He said: “It was not cage fighting. It was a demonstration of Brazilian jiu-jitsu, which is not striking. It is just grappling.
“Every time we have put on an event we have done a demo, whether it’s been a girl doing kickboxing by herself to music or karate – anything that shows martial arts in a positive light.”
Mr Burzotta said the boys’ demonstration was pre-rehearsed. He stressed there were adults in the cage, including their choreographer. He said the demo was carried out to music, there were no rounds, the boys wore T-shirts and the door was left open – unlike in an adult contest.
He added: “We have never had any problems or any serious injuries at our events. We have put Southend on the map.”
Simon Leftley, Southend Council’s corporate director for adult and community services, said: “We have always made Parkwood Leisure (who operate the leisure centre) aware under-18s were not permitted to take part.
“As soon as we learned these children had been inside the cage, we instructed them to inform the organisers they were banned from holding events pending the outcome of a full investigation.”
Comments(64)
BIRLIS
says...
7:04pm Fri 16 Dec 11
To consider it to be bordering on perversion would suggest that you may have some (rather worrying) issues IMO.
MazzyJ
says...
5:21am Sat 17 Dec 11
Brunning999
says...
6:39am Sat 17 Dec 11
What is wrong with cubs and scouts that gets kids into discipline without the need of trying to injure anyone.
At 8 kids should be enjoying play time and socializing NOT the skills of harming another.
westcliff willi
says...
7:16am Sat 17 Dec 11
Brunning999 wrote:you are an idiot!!!!!!!! kids of all ages have been doing karate and judo for years, and i m sure that know doubt in your youth boxing was seen as a way to instill discipline, to keep fit, socialize and keep of the streets and out of trouble.
Quote 'get kids into discipline' utter rubbish. What is wrong with cubs and scouts that gets kids into discipline without the need of trying to injure anyone. At 8 kids should be enjoying play time and socializing NOT the skills of harming another.
BIRLIS
says...
7:52am Sat 17 Dec 11
She is learning, through play and exercise, valuable lessons about dicipline, respect and achievement. She is learning about fitness. Her confidence is rocketing. She has another circle of friends.
And, on top of all that, she might be better equiped to defend herself physically when she is older.
Best of all, she can't wait to go each week.
I can't think of a better all-round hobby for kids.
I really don't understand your issue with it Brunning99.
Cubs & Brownies are fine too, but she couldn't join at 3 like she did with Karate.
BIRLIS
says...
8:03am Sat 17 Dec 11
Kids love learning and competing through fun activities.
And no, I'm not a pushy Dad. ;- )
It's all her choice....
Brunning999
says...
8:49am Sat 17 Dec 11
westcliff willi wrote:Okay does that include teaching someone at 8 how to punch someone in the face.
Brunning999 wrote:you are an idiot!!!!!!!! kids of all ages have been doing karate and judo for years, and i m sure that know doubt in your youth boxing was seen as a way to instill discipline, to keep fit, socialize and keep of the streets and out of trouble.
Quote 'get kids into discipline' utter rubbish. What is wrong with cubs and scouts that gets kids into discipline without the need of trying to injure anyone. At 8 kids should be enjoying play time and socializing NOT the skills of harming another.
AND I AM AN IDIOT !!
westcliff willi
says...
9:39am Sat 17 Dec 11
Brunning999 wrote:“It was not cage fighting. It was a demonstration of Brazilian jiu-jitsu, which is not striking. It is just grappling
westcliff willi wrote:Okay does that include teaching someone at 8 how to punch someone in the face. AND I AM AN IDIOT !!Brunning999 wrote: Quote 'get kids into discipline' utter rubbish. What is wrong with cubs and scouts that gets kids into discipline without the need of trying to injure anyone. At 8 kids should be enjoying play time and socializing NOT the skills of harming another.you are an idiot!!!!!!!! kids of all ages have been doing karate and judo for years, and i m sure that know doubt in your youth boxing was seen as a way to instill discipline, to keep fit, socialize and keep of the streets and out of trouble.
BIRLIS
says...
10:00am Sat 17 Dec 11
You really are missing the understanding of the package of life skills which martial arts training supports. It includes things which seem to be lacking in schools now; competing, the joy of success, the sting of losing and the lesson learned from that.
The kids learn to work towards long term goals. They build team spirit as they help each other, sharing strengths and overcoming difficulties.
Actual fighting is such a small aspect if the training.
You may not be an idiot, but by making such odd comments about a subject you appear to know very little about, you are starting to look like one.
Everydaypeople
says...
10:04am Sat 17 Dec 11
BIRLIS
says...
10:25am Sat 17 Dec 11
BigzMMA
says...
11:31am Sat 17 Dec 11
westcliff willi
says...
12:39pm Sat 17 Dec 11
BigzMMA
says...
1:03pm Sat 17 Dec 11
Brunning999
says...
1:13pm Sat 17 Dec 11
Everydaypeople wrote:Not only have I been to such an event I was a member of HM Services and have actually used them so I know a little.
Unless you have been to one of these events you really should not comment , ju jitsu does not involve punching anyone in the face it is very similar to wrestling ! To many people with an opinion on things they know nothing about !! Martial arts are an excellent way of teaching children discipline and respect as well as keeping them fit , healthy and off the streets .
Kids these days are surrounded with violence everywhere in games on the TV etc etc.
The last thing this violent country needs is to glamourise violence with two kids fighting.
Cal me what youbwant but have you actually seen what REAL VIOLENCE DOES !
Talk to many working class Irish folk from the Belfast area aged 55 plus they will tell you what violence has actually done to them.
Everydaypeople
says...
1:37pm Sat 17 Dec 11
I don't believe that martial arts promotes violence in children in fact the opposite it teaches them control .
Yes we live in a violent world and children are exposed to this through the media but surely by teaching our children self defence we are better preparing them for this world .
The event in question was a choreographed display , no different from a staged fight scene you may see in a childrens film such as Harry potter .
People are to quick to judge .... Would you ban all children from taking part in karate , judo , Kung Fu tae kwon do etc...
Brunning999
says...
2:30pm Sat 17 Dec 11
Everydaypeople wrote:Try teaching kids how to have a decent conversation rather than teaching them to be prepared in case you meet someone who might just might harm you, that you can at worst kill them.
With all due respect I really dint see the link between children learning martial arts in a controlled disciplined manner and people from Ireland ???
I don't believe that martial arts promotes violence in children in fact the opposite it teaches them control .
Yes we live in a violent world and children are exposed to this through the media but surely by teaching our children self defence we are better preparing them for this world .
The event in question was a choreographed display , no different from a staged fight scene you may see in a childrens film such as Harry potter .
People are to quick to judge .... Would you ban all children from taking part in karate , judo , Kung Fu tae kwon do etc...
At 8 years of age that is pretty sick.
BIRLIS
says...
2:32pm Sat 17 Dec 11
If anything, the self control, respect and self awareness it promotes are likely to keep people away from such activities.
Martial arts training is not about violence. Anyone joining a club with that expectation would be very disappointed. You clearly do not understand the most basic principals of martial arts.
Perhaps you should give it a try. You might learn something.
Everydaypeople
says...
3:00pm Sat 17 Dec 11
I am afraid brunning999 you clearly have ho idea what decent controlled martial art lessons comprise of and seem to have a very violent imagination , I think maybe it's people like you that should be kept away from martial arts as you clearly have no idea of how they are taught , used , and the control and discipline involved .
peter willis
says...
4:11pm Sat 17 Dec 11
AS A RESPONSIBLE PARENT AND A PERSON WITH A GOOD KNOWLEDGE OF MARTIAL ARTS, I MADE SURE THAT THIS CLUB MET ALL OF THE REQUIRED STANDARDS. THE INSTRUCTOR HAS A FAR REACHING KNOWLEDGE OF MARTIAL ARTS AND ALL STUDENTS ARE LICENSED, AS THEY ARE AT MY KARATE CLUB.
I WAS GENUINELY SHOCKED WHEN MY SON TOLD ME OF THIS 'BAN' FOLLOWING THE EXCELLENT DEMONSTRATION. I WAS RING SIDE AT THIS EVENT, AND I WAS PROUD TO BE ASSOCIATED WITH SUCH A BRILLIANT DISPLAY OF MARTIAL ARTS, IT WAS TOTALLY CONTROLLED AND I WAS SURPRISED AT HOW GOOD THESE TWO STUDENTS WERE.
SOME OF THE COMMENTS WRITTEN ABOUT THIS ARE VERY ILL INFORMED.
THIS IS A SPORT THAT TEACHES DISIPLINE AND RESPECT AND IS A VERY GOOD WAY OF ACHIEVING FITNESS, IT ALSO HELPS WITH CONFIDENCE, MY MARTIAL ARTS HAS GIVEN ME MORE CONFIDENCE IN SO MANY WAYS, AND I DO BELIEVE IT HAS HELPED MY SONS CONFIDENCE.
ANYONE SUGGESTING THIS IS TEACHING VIOLENCE IS SIMPLY WRONG.
THE PARENTS OF STUDENTS SIT AND WATCH CLASSES AND ARE ABLE TO SEE HOW MUCH THEIR CHILDREN ENJOY THEMSELVES AND ALSO THAT THEY ARE BEING TAUGHT IN A CORRECT MANOR.
I WOULD BE HAPPY FOR ANY MEMBER OF MY FAMILY TO LEARN THIS SPORT AT ANY AGE AND THIS BAN AND THE FOLLOWING FALLOUT FROM IT IS TOTAL OVER REACTION, I HOPE THE POWERS THAT BE SEE SENSE AND RIGHT THIS WRONG.
PETER WILLIS. 2ND DAN KARATE
Everydaypeople
says...
4:16pm Sat 17 Dec 11
Brunning999
says...
10:18pm Sat 17 Dec 11
It is better to teach children to be able to talk with people before they are taught to kill them.
And if any of you folk cannot see that it is because you were taught violence at an early age.
There is ample pursuits for children under the age of 10 ballet dancing is far better than Karate.
Brunning999
says...
10:19pm Sat 17 Dec 11
It is better to teach children to be able to talk with people before they are taught to kill them.
And if any of you folk cannot see that it is because you were taught violence at an early age.
There is ample pursuits for children under the age of 10 ballet dancing is far better than Karate.
Brunning999
says...
10:27pm Sat 17 Dec 11
As for my remark about Northern Ireland I am referring to a fact that violence leads to violence.
To all those that love violence that is your choice because you are adults who should teach your children that violence is a killer.
Brunning999
says...
10:52pm Sat 17 Dec 11
At 19 I walked thro villages where kids as young as 5 wanted to kill me not because they knew me but because their parents had only taught violence and we were the enemy.
So sorry having seen and used extreme violence I am now totally against teaching any child at the age of 8 fighting in a bloody cage.
And people that believe otherwise I feel very sorry for.
V_is_back
says...
1:21am Sun 18 Dec 11
Next you lot will be trying to justify pole dancing for children. Bunch of perverts.
peter willis
says...
4:40am Sun 18 Dec 11
REGARDING THE COMMENTS BY BRUNNING 999, BALLET DANCING IS NOT BETTER THAN KARATE, AND KARATE IS NOT BETTER THAN BALLET DANCING, THEY BOTH TAKE DEDICATION AND SKILL TO MASTER .
I AGREE WITH YOUR COMMENT THAT VIOLENCE LEADS TO VIOLENCE, IT CAN, BUT FIRSTLY, WHAT THESE BOYS WERE DISPLAYING WAS NOT AND IS NOT VIOLENCE, IT IS A SPORT, AND SECONDLY YOU SAY THAT AT THE AGE OF 19 YOU WERE TAUGHT TO KILL, I AM GUESSING BY THE ARMY, BUT YOU DON'T GO AROUND KILLING RANDOMLY BECAUSE YOU KNOW RIGHT FROM WRONG AND YOU ARE EDUCATED.
IN CONCLUSION, IT'S A SHAME THAT PEOPLE ARE WRITING ABOUT THIS WITHOUT KNOWING ALL OF THE FACTS AND WITHOUT A FIRST HAND KNOWLEDGE OF THE SUBJECT.
I WISH EVERYONE A SAFE, PEACEFUL AND HAPPY CHRISTMAS.
PETER
marybelle
says...
7:16am Sun 18 Dec 11
The simple truth is that as a civilised society 'No rightful thinking Human being would ever accept allowing a child of 8 to fight in a cage in front of a cheering violent natured crowd'
And any parent that agrees with allowing their precious child to fight like that is either of a violent natured disposition or a modern day yob.
I agree with Brunning especially as he apparently has seen the real results of violence, however he must have been scarred forever like many many of our young troops returning from Afghanistan etc.
As for 'everydaypeople' sorry you are also scarred by modern day violence, and probably believe in everything that has gone wrong with our violent society.
And as for calling anyone an 'idiot' for objecting to young children of 8 fighting in a cage I seriously suggest you take a long look at yourself and your sadly misguided violent charecter.
'8' again '8' THAT IS TRULY AWFUL.
marybelle
says...
7:16am Sun 18 Dec 11
The simple truth is that as a civilised society 'No rightful thinking Human being would ever accept allowing a child of 8 to fight in a cage in front of a cheering violent natured crowd'
And any parent that agrees with allowing their precious child to fight like that is either of a violent natured disposition or a modern day yob.
I agree with Brunning especially as he apparently has seen the real results of violence, however he must have been scarred forever like many many of our young troops returning from Afghanistan etc.
As for 'everydaypeople' sorry you are also scarred by modern day violence, and probably believe in everything that has gone wrong with our violent society.
And as for calling anyone an 'idiot' for objecting to young children of 8 fighting in a cage I seriously suggest you take a long look at yourself and your sadly misguided violent charecter.
'8' again '8' THAT IS TRULY AWFUL.
marybelle
says...
7:17am Sun 18 Dec 11
The simple truth is that as a civilised society 'No rightful thinking Human being would ever accept allowing a child of 8 to fight in a cage in front of a cheering violent natured crowd'
And any parent that agrees with allowing their precious child to fight like that is either of a violent natured disposition or a modern day yob.
I agree with Brunning especially as he apparently has seen the real results of violence, however he must have been scarred forever like many many of our young troops returning from Afghanistan etc.
As for 'everydaypeople' sorry you are also scarred by modern day violence, and probably believe in everything that has gone wrong with our violent society.
And as for calling anyone an 'idiot' for objecting to young children of 8 fighting in a cage I seriously suggest you take a long look at yourself and your sadly misguided violent charecter.
'8' again '8' THAT IS TRULY AWFUL.
V_is_back
says...
8:19am Sun 18 Dec 11
peter willis wrote:So fighting and beating another person into submission is not violence if it's dressed up as 'sport'. Interesting definition.
WHOEVER 'v is back' IS, YOUR COMMENTS ARE BOTH WRONG AND VERY OFFENSIVE, YOU ARE EITHER A FOOL OR JUST TRYING TO WIND PEOPLE UP, FIRSTLY THE TWO BOYS WERE NOT FIGHTING, THEY WERE PUTTING ON A DEMONSTRATION, AND TO USE THE TERMS VOYEURS AND BUNCH OF PERVERTS IS DEEPLY OFFENSIVE TO ME, I WAS WATCHING THIS WITH MY SON, AND YOU ARE SAYING THESE COMMENTS ABOUT US BOTH, TOTALLY WRONG.
REGARDING THE COMMENTS BY BRUNNING 999, BALLET DANCING IS NOT BETTER THAN KARATE, AND KARATE IS NOT BETTER THAN BALLET DANCING, THEY BOTH TAKE DEDICATION AND SKILL TO MASTER .
I AGREE WITH YOUR COMMENT THAT VIOLENCE LEADS TO VIOLENCE, IT CAN, BUT FIRSTLY, WHAT THESE BOYS WERE DISPLAYING WAS NOT AND IS NOT VIOLENCE, IT IS A SPORT, AND SECONDLY YOU SAY THAT AT THE AGE OF 19 YOU WERE TAUGHT TO KILL, I AM GUESSING BY THE ARMY, BUT YOU DON'T GO AROUND KILLING RANDOMLY BECAUSE YOU KNOW RIGHT FROM WRONG AND YOU ARE EDUCATED.
IN CONCLUSION, IT'S A SHAME THAT PEOPLE ARE WRITING ABOUT THIS WITHOUT KNOWING ALL OF THE FACTS AND WITHOUT A FIRST HAND KNOWLEDGE OF THE SUBJECT.
I WISH EVERYONE A SAFE, PEACEFUL AND HAPPY CHRISTMAS.
PETER
scorpy
says...
10:42am Sun 18 Dec 11
The kids were NOT fighting, I was at the UWC event and as ever it was a well run, professional show.
I taught Karate in Southend for many, many years - we did displays every year at school summer fetes and similar and often had kids demonstrating basic self defence, they had practiced and pre-planned their routine making any chance of injury extremely unlikely and this 'display' at the UWC event was exactly the same.
Two kids who were clearly very talented giving a display of Jiu-Jitsu, there was zero contact on any strikes and the techniques were performed with skill and restraint, it was NOT a fight and the people in attendance were certainly not there to watch children fight!!
I have an 8 year old myself and wouldnt waste my time signing up here and offering my support for an organisation who would allow kids to actually fight in the cage, the UWC did NOT allow this and the backlash for allowing two well trained children to give a no-contact display in Jiu-Jitsu is excessive and goes against what I believe the Martial Arts represent.
I will be sincerely dissapointed if this great event cannot continue at a great venue over this rubbish.
marybelle
says...
11:03am Sun 18 Dec 11
scorpy wrote:So your pathetic excuse for encouraging violence to be used, practised, or even displayed is acceptable ?
I think many people are reading what they want to in this and overlooking a simple fact.
The kids were NOT fighting, I was at the UWC event and as ever it was a well run, professional show.
I taught Karate in Southend for many, many years - we did displays every year at school summer fetes and similar and often had kids demonstrating basic self defence, they had practiced and pre-planned their routine making any chance of injury extremely unlikely and this 'display' at the UWC event was exactly the same.
Two kids who were clearly very talented giving a display of Jiu-Jitsu, there was zero contact on any strikes and the techniques were performed with skill and restraint, it was NOT a fight and the people in attendance were certainly not there to watch children fight!!
I have an 8 year old myself and wouldnt waste my time signing up here and offering my support for an organisation who would allow kids to actually fight in the cage, the UWC did NOT allow this and the backlash for allowing two well trained children to give a no-contact display in Jiu-Jitsu is excessive and goes against what I believe the Martial Arts represent.
I will be sincerely dissapointed if this great event cannot continue at a great venue over this rubbish.
Is that what you are saying?
Join the modern world of teaching a child to be kind and to talk without even considering the need for violence.
Give a child at least 10 years of loving life before you 'stick them up the chimneys'
Surely you must be a brain dead dinosaur not to see that all the displays of violence shown to a CHILD in the last few years is directly responsible for contributing to the increase of violence in infants school by both parents AND children by a violent ever increasing loud and rough minority.
OR ARE YOU BLIND ?
marybelle
says...
11:04am Sun 18 Dec 11
Is that what you are saying?
Join the modern world of teaching a child to be kind and to talk without even considering the need for violence.
Give a child at least 10 years of loving life before you 'stick them up the chimneys'
Surely you must be a brain dead dinosaur not to see that all the displays of violence shown to a CHILD in the last few years is directly responsible for contributing to the increase of violence in infants school by both parents AND children by a violent ever increasing loud and rough minority.
OR ARE YOU BLIND ?
Brunning999
says...
11:42am Sun 18 Dec 11
What I am not happy with is children as young as 8 fighting in a cage in front of hundreds of shouting adults for the VERY sad purpose of so called entertainment !! it is barbaric and must never be allowed to happen.
stropmag
says...
11:43am Sun 18 Dec 11
I assume that your martial arts training has enabled you to contort yourself to the level that you can get into your own anal cavity Mr Burzotta. Well done.
BigzMMA
says...
1:02pm Sun 18 Dec 11
You like to use a comparison of children doing mixed/martial arts to the troubles that countries like Northern Ireland has experienced, but just remember there are those who were there with you who knows better.
My college tutor, and probably the best teacher I've ever had, was in HM British Army for 22 years, finishing his last tour in 2000, and HE has witness bad things, he told us once he was stationed in a stadium in Rwanda during the problems between the Hutus and the Tutsis, and they were having drainage problems and he along with a few men from his platoon was ordered to find the problem and clear it out. What they didn't expect to see was human limbs, composed of men, women and CHILDREN. Now you think that would mess you up, clearing the body parts of innocent people from a blocked drain, to the point of where you would be anti violence right? Not this great, obviously he was affected by it for a time, but in the end of the day he can tell the difference between children practising martial arts whilst growing up and the consequences of being in a war-zone. So much so that whilst he was away, he and his wife would allow his son to take part in Tae Kwon Do, and because of the discipline he grew up with between his army father and from martial arts he is currently a successful businessman, travelling across Europe and even meeting up with Sir Alan Sugar on a regular basis. Now does that sound like a barbaric upbringing which lead to a terrible result in later life to you?
War can affect people in different ways but you must stop thinking that children practising martial arts is going to result in mass murders involving children below the age of 16 doing them. Children know better than what you claim they are becoming by taking part in MMA, they are still learning the same things and still getting the same benefits because it is martial arts. In a day and age where children are joining gangs and doing drugs etc, wouldn't you rather your child do something active that keeps them away from doing these sort of things? Before you answer this remember not all children are going to avoid these same things by doing arts & crafts and chess, kids can get so hyperactive things like martial arts is really one of the best options for them.
I do suggest that before any of you writes back to my comment to please actually look up MMA properly, I'd recommend going to Wikipedia to start, as all the information on there is all facts and findings made from reliable sources. Because of this it means the information is not biased towards your argument or mine. here is the link to this - http://en.wikipedia.
org/wiki/Mixed_marti
al_arts
hopefully you can see that this isn't a barbaric sport, and that you can't always believe what the media says
Brunning999
says...
1:42pm Sun 18 Dec 11
Your self defense comments of such a barbaric pursuit leaves me cold.
Everydaypeople
says...
2:04pm Sun 18 Dec 11
Personally I believe a child who is not taught discipline and control and respect is far more of a danger to society .
Patrick2011
says...
4:04pm Sun 18 Dec 11
I have seen the footage of the demonstration and there is nothing but positive encouragement from all those present for the two participators. Go to any kids football game on a Saturday or Sunday morning and listen to the language and watch the aggressive behavior from parents and spectators towards the referee and the other team. Games for Kids as young as 4 and 5. Rugby demands a high level of contact (apart from tag rugby for very young kids) as do a lot of other sports, but it is within the interests of that sport, not for any external use. Let kids enjoy the sport they love and support them with it, all of this animosity towards the sport they love is far more damaging to them than the demonstration. A demonstration they perfected and performed brilliantly and one which we ought to be proud of.
sidimmu
says...
6:33pm Sun 18 Dec 11
Brunning999
says...
8:01pm Sun 18 Dec 11
In a cage !
Very healthy for an 8 yr old.
That should help !
Sad very sad and weird watch little boys fighting.
Everydaypeople
says...
9:15pm Sun 18 Dec 11
Leighdweller
says...
10:42am Mon 19 Dec 11
Point is, kids martial arts and boxing has been around for ages and will be for some time to come. Like it or not, and I'm not totally in favour of it myself, as long as it's well supervised with medical care if needed, I think there are some kids that will benefit from it.
That's probably an incendiary statement to some, and if so I apologise, but I don't think we should necessarily consider this to be a 'peversion' as some call it, or indeed the equivalent of ****-fighting with kids.
BigzMMA
says...
11:58am Mon 19 Dec 11
You really do not have a case here as you are trying to attack a sport where the only case you have against it being banned has long been left at the doorway of 1998. MMA has grown as a sport since, where rules and regulations are currently in place and competitors are as safe as they can possibly be, I'd say you hate it just because it can be held in a secured cage. Would you still view it as a bad sport if it was in a boxing type ring? It cannot work in a ring though, competitors are more likely to fall out with the grappling involved and it would look far worse if children are breaking bones because they were accidentally forced out the ring.
sidimmu is right though, you may need serious counselling if you cannot tell the difference between war and children practising martial arts anymore.
Because you don't seem to know what Jiu-Jitsu is at all because you keep referring to it as 'fighting' and your refusal to learn anything about what your 'arguing' against, I will breaking down for you, Jiu-Jitsu is an ALL-GRAPPLING martial art, where practitioners wear the gi (or martial art suits for the uneducated) when they are learning and training, and from there, competitions comes in two versions - gi or no-gi.
So now that I broke down what you missing information wise, hopefully now you can try to understand this sport better. If not, well like I said I really feel sorry for you for not being able to move on properly with you life.
BigzMMA
says...
12:05pm Mon 19 Dec 11
scorpy
says...
1:25pm Mon 19 Dec 11
marybelle wrote:Hold on there one moment - you condemn the encouragement of 'violence' by calling me pathetic, brain dead, blind and a dinosaur? wow go you - your intelligent response clearly show you as somebody whose words should be heeded.
scorpy wrote:So your pathetic excuse for encouraging violence to be used, practised, or even displayed is acceptable ?
I think many people are reading what they want to in this and overlooking a simple fact.
The kids were NOT fighting, I was at the UWC event and as ever it was a well run, professional show.
I taught Karate in Southend for many, many years - we did displays every year at school summer fetes and similar and often had kids demonstrating basic self defence, they had practiced and pre-planned their routine making any chance of injury extremely unlikely and this 'display' at the UWC event was exactly the same.
Two kids who were clearly very talented giving a display of Jiu-Jitsu, there was zero contact on any strikes and the techniques were performed with skill and restraint, it was NOT a fight and the people in attendance were certainly not there to watch children fight!!
I have an 8 year old myself and wouldnt waste my time signing up here and offering my support for an organisation who would allow kids to actually fight in the cage, the UWC did NOT allow this and the backlash for allowing two well trained children to give a no-contact display in Jiu-Jitsu is excessive and goes against what I believe the Martial Arts represent.
I will be sincerely dissapointed if this great event cannot continue at a great venue over this rubbish.
Is that what you are saying?
Join the modern world of teaching a child to be kind and to talk without even considering the need for violence.
Give a child at least 10 years of loving life before you 'stick them up the chimneys'
Surely you must be a brain dead dinosaur not to see that all the displays of violence shown to a CHILD in the last few years is directly responsible for contributing to the increase of violence in infants school by both parents AND children by a violent ever increasing loud and rough minority.
OR ARE YOU BLIND ?
Martial Arts is a sport and a discipline, taught properly it teaches self discipline and respect and I am sure that even somebody whose main purpose in commenting here is to sling insults can see that these are traits that are beneficial to all children in todays world?
I presume you live in a candy house and are packed in cotton wool as you clearly dont know what the real world is like but self discipline, self control and respect if taught to all children would lower bullying and violence in general in all aspects of life from school and upwards.
I wont comment on your insults and belittling words as my Martial Arts training has given me several things that you clearly lack.
scorpy
says...
1:29pm Mon 19 Dec 11
Brunning999 wrote:I agree completely but that isnt the issue here as the children WERE NOT FIGHTING, they performed a choreograpphed display, im sure you will agree that there is a huge difference between the two.
Please do not get me wrong I am a great supporter of Karate and boxing and have no problem understanding the philosophy of it's origins and the reasons for it's purposes at a time when extreme violence was an everyday occurrence.
What I am not happy with is children as young as 8 fighting in a cage in front of hundreds of shouting adults for the VERY sad purpose of so called entertainment !! it is barbaric and must never be allowed to happen.
Brunning999
says...
8:13pm Mon 19 Dec 11
scorpy wrote:No I do not agree a choreographed display of what = fighting
Brunning999 wrote:I agree completely but that isnt the issue here as the children WERE NOT FIGHTING, they performed a choreograpphed display, im sure you will agree that there is a huge difference between the two.
Please do not get me wrong I am a great supporter of Karate and boxing and have no problem understanding the philosophy of it's origins and the reasons for it's purposes at a time when extreme violence was an everyday occurrence.
What I am not happy with is children as young as 8 fighting in a cage in front of hundreds of shouting adults for the VERY sad purpose of so called entertainment !! it is barbaric and must never be allowed to happen.
Perhaps you believe what you believe and I will do the same.
Aggression OR a display of aggression please spare me !!
8 years of age is appalling by any decent non violent peace loving normal person.
As for all the violent contributions I fully understand their personalities and will always object.
BigzMMA
says...
10:19am Tue 20 Dec 11
Every precaution was put into place as if it was a real bout as far as safety goes, but it can be said it was almost like a WWE-style outcome because every move was scripted and the outcome was predetermined. Or maybe this is what it's all about, being like WWE wrestling?
Aggression? these kids know that what they are doing has nothing to do with being aggressive or violent.
In the end of the day, boys cannot do near any of the things I was allowed to do when I was their age, and that was 10 years ago. They can't do British Bulldogs, they can't mukky fight, you know, now people like you are demanding to ban an entire sport just because children are beginning to take part in it with the limit of only doing grappling during competitions. What ever happened to 'letting boys be boys'? It's because of this lack of freedom to express their energy that as they grow older they will find the negatives in life and that will contribute with what is wrong with our society, like drug taking, alcoholism, joining gangs, doing serious crimes etc. The difference between the two examples of what I was able to do when I was younger and martial arts is that martial arts is far more controlled, all participants are being monitored so if anything goes wrong they can immediately be attended to, it is more organised (even though looking back I was amazed how we were able to gather everyone and work out how to do Bulldogs), and the children can learn many, many life skills that can carry on with them for the rest of their lives.
If we take all the energetic things out of growing up for boys and even girls, then what we are going to be left with is a generation that cannot understand many aspects of life just because we weren't allowed to teach them important things at times when they attention was there for us to reach them better than the classroom. If P.E. ever gets banned from schools I will personally called for the Sports Minister's sacking, because that will seal children's futures, which is definitely not going to be a good one.
By the way, I should point to finish that it is normally the children who want to take part in mixed/martial arts, not the parents forcing them to, so any plans to use that card, I have just answered you on that one.
EastStBoy
says...
11:06am Tue 20 Dec 11
MMA will forever be tarred with the stigma that the Cage brings with it, and that it's past as an unregulated sport. Its a credit to those who see beyond these stereotypes that the sport has evolved into the specticle it is today, in the main stream in the US, and safer than a multitude of more popular, and less tormented sports in our society.
As for those who hate the thought of the children of today learning Judo, Juijitsu, Karate etc at a young age, then I leave you this thought to consider: Will you ban children playing rugby too? Because I know that the sport of Rugby is statistically multiple times more dangerous to participants, especially those at a young age.
BigzMMA
says...
2:27pm Tue 20 Dec 11
This is such a great sport, and though it did have a dodgy past, doesn't every sport? An example I used much earlier into the conversation was professional darts, where they were allowed to drink & smoke whilst playing, and this was during the height of it's popularity. Though they don't now, it still shows how such a popular sport was able able to send out the wrong messages yet MMA is all about fitness, technique, skill and heart yet it is undermined by the media, politicians and wider public, who would love to hear something that involves those four things.
This is what I mean by taking a UFC style approach to getting MMA a bigger platform all round in this country. If any promoters are reading this, please band together with other promoters across the country and make one massive push for improvements for MMA here!
whataloadofbull
says...
5:13pm Tue 20 Dec 11
You haven't got kids i presume, have u ever tried getting a 8 year old kid to do something they don't want to do?, clearly these kids have a purpose in life now (or would u rather they sold drugs / begin drinking and kicking the crap out of anyone who's around?)
Your opinion is out of date by 10 years, mma is far safer than boxing as one move and the fights over, boxing is round after round of getting punched in one spot mma can be finished in numerous way and the ref is always mindful of injurys to fighters and will stop the fight at any sign of a fighter being unable to continue.
Stop being such a one minded idiot about something you both know nothing about, which clearly you don't.
bluesteve
says...
12:58am Wed 21 Dec 11
ADucksQuack
says...
8:26am Wed 21 Dec 11
bluesteve wrote:No violence is acceptable.
I think they should bring back national service, then people would know what type of violence is acceptable and what isn't. That is what is wrong with our society
ADucksQuack
says...
8:28am Wed 21 Dec 11
whataloadofbull wrote:MMA is just a sterilised name for cage fighting in an attempt to sanitise it. It's a foul redneck import from the US for chavs.
So it seems the few people commenting on here against this sport (yes its a sport) are trools in the worst possible way.
You haven't got kids i presume, have u ever tried getting a 8 year old kid to do something they don't want to do?, clearly these kids have a purpose in life now (or would u rather they sold drugs / begin drinking and kicking the crap out of anyone who's around?)
Your opinion is out of date by 10 years, mma is far safer than boxing as one move and the fights over, boxing is round after round of getting punched in one spot mma can be finished in numerous way and the ref is always mindful of injurys to fighters and will stop the fight at any sign of a fighter being unable to continue.
Stop being such a one minded idiot about something you both know nothing about, which clearly you don't.
ADucksQuack
says...
8:33am Wed 21 Dec 11
EastStBoy wrote:Rugby doesn't teach violence. You won't see rugby crowds beating the cr@p out of each other.
I just want to chime in and say that it's good to see knowledgable fans of mixed martial arts here.
MMA will forever be tarred with the stigma that the Cage brings with it, and that it's past as an unregulated sport. Its a credit to those who see beyond these stereotypes that the sport has evolved into the specticle it is today, in the main stream in the US, and safer than a multitude of more popular, and less tormented sports in our society.
As for those who hate the thought of the children of today learning Judo, Juijitsu, Karate etc at a young age, then I leave you this thought to consider: Will you ban children playing rugby too? Because I know that the sport of Rugby is statistically multiple times more dangerous to participants, especially those at a young age.
MMA is a redneck import from the US.
True martial arts don't have cages, don't have baying crowds.
sidimmu
says...
8:58am Wed 21 Dec 11
ADucksQuack wrote:whay another very ill informed member of the public has found this article, the cage is there to provide a secure environment for the competition to take place, there has always been martial arts competition and this is one form of it, MMA was never originally a sport, it was there to find out what the best form of martial art is, in a 1 on 1 bout.
EastStBoy wrote: I just want to chime in and say that it's good to see knowledgable fans of mixed martial arts here. MMA will forever be tarred with the stigma that the Cage brings with it, and that it's past as an unregulated sport. Its a credit to those who see beyond these stereotypes that the sport has evolved into the specticle it is today, in the main stream in the US, and safer than a multitude of more popular, and less tormented sports in our society. As for those who hate the thought of the children of today learning Judo, Juijitsu, Karate etc at a young age, then I leave you this thought to consider: Will you ban children playing rugby too? Because I know that the sport of Rugby is statistically multiple times more dangerous to participants, especially those at a young age.Rugby doesn't teach violence. You won't see rugby crowds beating the cr@p out of each other. MMA is a redneck import from the US. True martial arts don't have cages, don't have baying crowds.
import from the usa? clearly you have no idea where MMA came from, go do some back ground reading, you might just learn something. The baying crowds are fans of the sport and if you go to any of these events, ask people in the crowd how many have practised martial arts or still practise a form of martial art, you will be surprised.
so go do some background reading/learning and leave your ill informed judgements and comments away from this page.
BigzMMA
says...
9:20am Wed 21 Dec 11
Cage Fighting is the sport's nickname only because the uneducated, dull members of the public who don't want to know anything about the sport while they trying to find a reason why it is bad just so happens to pay attention enough to notices that it is fighting (which is what martial arts is - the art of fighting) and it happens in a cage. So because of this labelling why don't we call Boxing 'punch ring' or 'fight ring'? Because lets be honest, it involves punching inside a ring doesn't it?
I think you will find that MMA is currently the fastest growing sport in the world, not just Britain, and Dan 'The Outlaw' Hardy would disagree with you when you say the sport is for chavs. Go to any martial arts gym across England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland and I promise you that most of these places has people who love MMA.
What is your definition of 'Martial Arts' then if you believe that? Bruce Lee, perhaps one of the best martial artists in the world and name that is recognised by everyone in the world today, says that his style of fight is like water, free flowing and shapeless, that taking the best from other techniques and styles and throwing away what doesn't work in a real fight. These are his words, and because of words like this that Dana White (President of the UFC and shareholder of parent company ZUFFA) calls Bruce Lee the 'Godfather of MMA' because of how he believes martial arts should be treated. Lee has also said that the only use for belts is 'hold up your trousers' and remember he is a true martial artist. Because of this, martial arts isn't confined to very wide open mats, a boxing ring or a cage, but as far as a spectator sport goes, the cage is the best option for MMA. Because it is elevated more people can go live and watch it as oppose to open mats, and a boxing ring isn't safe enough for them as the grappling can and, in the past, has fallen out and injured themselves. It is fine for Boxing because the practically never grab each other apart from recovering, and they move away from the ropes to avoid being in a bad position. With the cage, it holds them in safely without injuring one another from falling out.
See here is the thing about this 'debate', the people who came on here to bash and insult MMA and martial arts are really just saying what they think about the sport, there is no educational thinking, no fact findings to prove their theories, no proof of any of their claims. All your case involves is slandering a sport that you not only know nothing about, but your lack of trying to learn enough to have at the best a decent claim to say why the sport is bad means your being torn to pieces by those who actually knows what MMA is. If you guys spent nearly as much time looking up information that you are missing from your 'side of the argument' then really I wouldn't need to say any of this, until you actually back up your 'claims' then once again people like me who know the sport will tear you apart on here.
I'd recommend this link here - http://en.wikipedia.
org/wiki/Mixed_marti
al_arts all the information here are genuine facts about the sport that isn't biased towards my side or your side ADucksQuack, everything there is real information that is unbiased and from reliable sources. Just read over it, then read the reference links at the bottom to see where they came from. Before you do reject it, other people have done so before and look where they stand in this conversation, rip to shreds by everyone else, maybe you should read it just to find some sort of justification for your arguement?
westcliff willi
says...
9:34am Wed 21 Dec 11
BigzMMA
says...
2:50pm Wed 21 Dec 11
Dubaholic
says...
7:23pm Wed 21 Dec 11
Jiu Jitsu is a sport same as any other... I dont know what all the fuss is about...??
And some of the comments ive just read on here are pathetic... What is wrong with some people....!!
BRING BACK UWC... GREAT SHOW and a good thing for Southend.
Dubaholic
says...
7:29pm Wed 21 Dec 11
V_is_back wrote:What a stupid comment... So why is just kids cage fighting perversion?
I don't care how they dress it up, people who pay to watch children fight in a cage is bordering on perversion in my opinion.
You wouldnt call kids swimming or playing football or a young Gymnast wearing a leotard in the Olympics perversion.??? Is this how you look at childrens sports, you aint right...!!
What a pathetic comment you made...!!
V_is_back says...
6:38pm Fri 16 Dec 11