Cyclist to sue after ‘shared space’ fall on Southend seafront

A FURIOUS cyclist is suing Southend Council after dislocating her ankle in the town’s seafront “shared space” zone.

Visitor Karen Stanley, 51, came to the town with her husband, Neil, 43, for a bike ride along the seafront, including the revamped £7.6million City Beach area, in Marine Parade.

Spotting three cars behind her, she pulled over to let them through, tripping over the small kerb which runs through the zone.

Mrs Stanley now faces six weeks in plaster and has had to cancel a holiday in Menorca, because of the August 18 accident.

She said: “We will be putting in a personal injury claim against the council, but we will also be appealing for more signs and road markings to help define the boundaries.

“We feel this whole shared space concept the council loves is very confusing and, with five different-coloured stone blocks and the road surface, it’s very difficult to know what is flush with the pathway or where the kerbs are.”

In the shared space zone, pedestrians, drivers and cyclists are supposed to mix freely. The scheme was a cornerstone of the council’s bid for Government funding to revamp the seafront, which was finally finished in March last year.

However, many users say the area’s layout is confusing and potentially dangerous.

The kerbs in some parts of the zone have a visible step up from the road, while others have a smooth slope into the pavement.

The Echo launched a campaign for changes last summer, after two children were knocked down in Marine Parade in the space of six weeks.

Mrs Stanley, who lives in Brentwood, said it was hard for outsiders to work out who had priority. She added: “I just didn’t realise the kerb was there.

“Thankfully, we both wear helmets and the police were nearby and able to call the ambulance quickly.”

Zulfi Ali, the council’s strategic highways and traffic manager, said: “We are very sorry to hear about this incident.

“Independent reviews have shown the area meets the necessary safety standards.

“However, as part of our road safety initiatives, we continue to monitor all our transportation networks across the borough.”

Comments (74)

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10:13am Wed 29 Aug 12

Blind Haze says...

If you're not accustomed to the shared space as Mrs Stanley has admitted she's not, what did she expect to be where the kerb is?
If you're not accustomed to the shared space as Mrs Stanley has admitted she's not, what did she expect to be where the kerb is? Blind Haze
  • Score: 10

10:38am Wed 29 Aug 12

Richy don't shine shoes no more says...

What about all the people hit by cyclists? Are they suing too
What about all the people hit by cyclists? Are they suing too Richy don't shine shoes no more
  • Score: 8

10:42am Wed 29 Aug 12

PJR-121 says...

Tripped up a kerb and now wants to sue - does she not have eyes?
Tripped up a kerb and now wants to sue - does she not have eyes? PJR-121
  • Score: 12

10:49am Wed 29 Aug 12

Rayleigh_boy says...

What next? Should all councils put up signs along all roads to warn of kerbs. Another example of someone playing the blame game
What next? Should all councils put up signs along all roads to warn of kerbs. Another example of someone playing the blame game Rayleigh_boy
  • Score: 8

10:57am Wed 29 Aug 12

perini says...

Best thing Mrs Stanley can do is stay in Brentwood - she is obviously too stupid to be let out on her own! The clue is in 'shared space.'
Best thing Mrs Stanley can do is stay in Brentwood - she is obviously too stupid to be let out on her own! The clue is in 'shared space.' perini
  • Score: 16

10:59am Wed 29 Aug 12

Eastwood Biker says...

I think this could have happened anywhere and while unfortunate it is a case of opportunism given the previous adverse publicity for the area.The moral of the story is look where you are going.
I think this could have happened anywhere and while unfortunate it is a case of opportunism given the previous adverse publicity for the area.The moral of the story is look where you are going. Eastwood Biker
  • Score: 9

11:03am Wed 29 Aug 12

BD says...

Richy don't shine shoes no more wrote:
What about all the people hit by cyclists? Are they suing too
I dont actually recall any reports of anyone being hit by a cyclist... I read lots of people saying they were nearly hit by them... Maybe if people actually look where theyre going and not bury their heads in their phones texting listeinng to music etc...

As for this woman - open your eyes! There's not actually anything to suggest it is a shared space (other than the councils misleading signs!) and legally its not a shared space and should be treated as a road, which everyone else has managed to do quite successfully...
[quote][p][bold]Richy don't shine shoes no more[/bold] wrote: What about all the people hit by cyclists? Are they suing too[/p][/quote]I dont actually recall any reports of anyone being hit by a cyclist... I read lots of people saying they were nearly hit by them... Maybe if people actually look where theyre going and not bury their heads in their phones texting listeinng to music etc... As for this woman - open your eyes! There's not actually anything to suggest it is a shared space (other than the councils misleading signs!) and legally its not a shared space and should be treated as a road, which everyone else has managed to do quite successfully... BD
  • Score: 8

11:06am Wed 29 Aug 12

BD says...

Richy don't shine shoes no more wrote:
What about all the people hit by cyclists? Are they suing too
I dont acutally recall any stories of people being hit by cyclists... Ive definately never seen any people being hit even on the busiest days down there...

and as forthis woman hopefully the judge will tell her to stop wasting time and open her eyes. Yes the road is tight but you shouldnt be slowing down to let cars past, and legally its not shared space so should be treated as a normal road, which have kerbs!"
[quote][p][bold]Richy don't shine shoes no more[/bold] wrote: What about all the people hit by cyclists? Are they suing too[/p][/quote]I dont acutally recall any stories of people being hit by cyclists... Ive definately never seen any people being hit even on the busiest days down there... and as forthis woman hopefully the judge will tell her to stop wasting time and open her eyes. Yes the road is tight but you shouldnt be slowing down to let cars past, and legally its not shared space so should be treated as a normal road, which have kerbs!" BD
  • Score: 2

11:06am Wed 29 Aug 12

BD says...

sorry double posted!
sorry double posted! BD
  • Score: 1

11:12am Wed 29 Aug 12

PJR-121 says...

I thought the shared bit was the bit without kerbs anyway - with the big balls and the lighter coloured paving - so she wasn't even in it if she's hit the kerb!
I thought the shared bit was the bit without kerbs anyway - with the big balls and the lighter coloured paving - so she wasn't even in it if she's hit the kerb! PJR-121
  • Score: 0

11:20am Wed 29 Aug 12

AnotherSister says...

Blame culture! I suggest she looks where she's going because if that's not what she does, then she's also a danger to other road users.
Blame culture! I suggest she looks where she's going because if that's not what she does, then she's also a danger to other road users. AnotherSister
  • Score: 4

11:27am Wed 29 Aug 12

reptile says...

She should receive a commendation for riding on the road as I've never seen a cyclist that's not pushing past people on the footpath.
She should receive a commendation for riding on the road as I've never seen a cyclist that's not pushing past people on the footpath. reptile
  • Score: 2

11:58am Wed 29 Aug 12

...???... says...

Come on, is she serious, sue for falling on a kerb. Should the council put signs along every road warning of kerbs? Should there be signs on every lamp post in case i walk into one because 'i didn't realise it was there!'.
Of course not. I would like to know if the council ever pays out for this though, if they do i may well put in a claim everytime i have to step up a kerb as that kerb has meant me using more energy, someone obviously has to pay for my extra time and effort, i mean, if everywhere was flat i could get around much easier!!!!!
Come on, is she serious, sue for falling on a kerb. Should the council put signs along every road warning of kerbs? Should there be signs on every lamp post in case i walk into one because 'i didn't realise it was there!'. Of course not. I would like to know if the council ever pays out for this though, if they do i may well put in a claim everytime i have to step up a kerb as that kerb has meant me using more energy, someone obviously has to pay for my extra time and effort, i mean, if everywhere was flat i could get around much easier!!!!! ...???...
  • Score: 5

12:02pm Wed 29 Aug 12

V_is_back says...

Richy don't shine shoes no more wrote:
What about all the people hit by cyclists? Are they suing too
Firstly, I have seen no reports at all of pedestrians 'hit by cyclists' on Southend seafront, and you can bet it would be all over the Echo if they had been.

Secondly I agree the colour of the paving makes it difficult to see the kerbs. It is as if they are deliberately camouflaged. One part of the area has a six inch step which is all but invisible until it trips you. Here's a picture of that step I saw somewhere else: http://bit.ly/NW5rNu


The first mistake made was when Mrs Stanley 'pulled over to let cars pass'. I was under the impression this was a 20mph zone which is shared equally between pedestrians, cyclists, and motor vehicles. Why was she pulling over?

I hope she does sue Southend council and wins. Perhaps then Southend council will wake up and realise their seafront is not safe for all users at all.
[quote][p][bold]Richy don't shine shoes no more[/bold] wrote: What about all the people hit by cyclists? Are they suing too[/p][/quote]Firstly, I have seen no reports at all of pedestrians 'hit by cyclists' on Southend seafront, and you can bet it would be all over the Echo if they had been. Secondly I agree the colour of the paving makes it difficult to see the kerbs. It is as if they are deliberately camouflaged. One part of the area has a six inch step which is all but invisible until it trips you. Here's a picture of that step I saw somewhere else: http://bit.ly/NW5rNu The first mistake made was when Mrs Stanley 'pulled over to let cars pass'. I was under the impression this was a 20mph zone which is shared equally between pedestrians, cyclists, and motor vehicles. Why was she pulling over? I hope she does sue Southend council and wins. Perhaps then Southend council will wake up and realise their seafront is not safe for all users at all. V_is_back
  • Score: 4

12:06pm Wed 29 Aug 12

Max 269 says...

Its shared space. As to the 3 cars let them follow, they can only go 20mph along the sea front anyway. Its nice to hear of a cyclist using the road.
Its shared space. As to the 3 cars let them follow, they can only go 20mph along the sea front anyway. Its nice to hear of a cyclist using the road. Max 269
  • Score: 4

12:12pm Wed 29 Aug 12

V_is_back says...

She added: “I just didn’t realise the kerb was there.Thankfully, we both wear helmets and the police were nearby and able to call the ambulance quickly.”

Helmets don't work, as evidenced by her dislocated ankle.
She added: “I just didn’t realise the kerb was there.Thankfully, we both wear helmets and the police were nearby and able to call the ambulance quickly.” Helmets don't work, as evidenced by her dislocated ankle. V_is_back
  • Score: 5

12:13pm Wed 29 Aug 12

r6keith says...

V is back said . I hope she does sue Southend council and wins. Perhaps then Southend council will wake up and realise their seafront is not safe . I all very well suing but the compensation comes from the insurance company , who in turn put up the premiums so the council then put up the rates or cut further services to cover these costs. In the end we all pay if she gets a payout, like all accident claims the money eventually comes out of our pockets !
V is back said . I hope she does sue Southend council and wins. Perhaps then Southend council will wake up and realise their seafront is not safe . I all very well suing but the compensation comes from the insurance company , who in turn put up the premiums so the council then put up the rates or cut further services to cover these costs. In the end we all pay if she gets a payout, like all accident claims the money eventually comes out of our pockets ! r6keith
  • Score: 0

12:16pm Wed 29 Aug 12

V_is_back says...

r6keith wrote:
V is back said . I hope she does sue Southend council and wins. Perhaps then Southend council will wake up and realise their seafront is not safe . I all very well suing but the compensation comes from the insurance company , who in turn put up the premiums so the council then put up the rates or cut further services to cover these costs. In the end we all pay if she gets a payout, like all accident claims the money eventually comes out of our pockets !
The answer is to vote for councillors who listen to the voters and groups affected by their decisions.

It is my understanding that no cycling or pedestrian groups were consulted by SBC over the design and layout of Marine Parade or of the seafront cycle routes.

Now they are reaping the results of that failure to consult.
[quote][p][bold]r6keith[/bold] wrote: V is back said . I hope she does sue Southend council and wins. Perhaps then Southend council will wake up and realise their seafront is not safe . I all very well suing but the compensation comes from the insurance company , who in turn put up the premiums so the council then put up the rates or cut further services to cover these costs. In the end we all pay if she gets a payout, like all accident claims the money eventually comes out of our pockets ![/p][/quote]The answer is to vote for councillors who listen to the voters and groups affected by their decisions. It is my understanding that no cycling or pedestrian groups were consulted by SBC over the design and layout of Marine Parade or of the seafront cycle routes. Now they are reaping the results of that failure to consult. V_is_back
  • Score: 1

12:17pm Wed 29 Aug 12

Dangerous driver says...

What a load of crap. Her fault and no sympathy for her. If she carried on riding, the cars would of overtook her anyway. There was no need to get onto the pavement. The council probably will pay out over this too.
What a load of crap. Her fault and no sympathy for her. If she carried on riding, the cars would of overtook her anyway. There was no need to get onto the pavement. The council probably will pay out over this too. Dangerous driver
  • Score: -2

12:43pm Wed 29 Aug 12

DCLEIGH says...

PJR-121 wrote:
Tripped up a kerb and now wants to sue - does she not have eyes?
It is possible that she doesn't as she is also suing the company that makes helmets for not giving full instructions on how to wear one.
[quote][p][bold]PJR-121[/bold] wrote: Tripped up a kerb and now wants to sue - does she not have eyes?[/p][/quote]It is possible that she doesn't as she is also suing the company that makes helmets for not giving full instructions on how to wear one. DCLEIGH
  • Score: 1

12:45pm Wed 29 Aug 12

DCLEIGH says...

PJR-121 wrote:
Tripped up a kerb and now wants to sue - does she not have eyes?
Apparently the suit relating to the correct placement of a saddle was settled out of court .
She said she was satisfied (not sure if it was with the amount awarded or because of the new found pleasure of cycling with the saddle the wrong way up !)
[quote][p][bold]PJR-121[/bold] wrote: Tripped up a kerb and now wants to sue - does she not have eyes?[/p][/quote]Apparently the suit relating to the correct placement of a saddle was settled out of court . She said she was satisfied (not sure if it was with the amount awarded or because of the new found pleasure of cycling with the saddle the wrong way up !) DCLEIGH
  • Score: 2

12:47pm Wed 29 Aug 12

Tom from Southend says...

Karen Stanley you are pathetic. Look where you are going, take responsibilty for your own actions and stop being a parasite on our taxes.
Karen Stanley you are pathetic. Look where you are going, take responsibilty for your own actions and stop being a parasite on our taxes. Tom from Southend
  • Score: 2

12:48pm Wed 29 Aug 12

Alice in Her Own Land :P says...

reptile wrote:
She should receive a commendation for riding on the road as I've never seen a cyclist that's not pushing past people on the footpath.
Totally agree. But why wasn't she using the cycle path - designed FOR CYCLISTS?
[quote][p][bold]reptile[/bold] wrote: She should receive a commendation for riding on the road as I've never seen a cyclist that's not pushing past people on the footpath.[/p][/quote]Totally agree. But why wasn't she using the cycle path - designed FOR CYCLISTS? Alice in Her Own Land :P
  • Score: 1

12:49pm Wed 29 Aug 12

Alice in Her Own Land :P says...

V_is_back wrote:
She added: “I just didn’t realise the kerb was there.Thankfully, we both wear helmets and the police were nearby and able to call the ambulance quickly.”

Helmets don't work, as evidenced by her dislocated ankle.
LOL!!
[quote][p][bold]V_is_back[/bold] wrote: She added: “I just didn’t realise the kerb was there.Thankfully, we both wear helmets and the police were nearby and able to call the ambulance quickly.” Helmets don't work, as evidenced by her dislocated ankle.[/p][/quote]LOL!! Alice in Her Own Land :P
  • Score: 2

12:51pm Wed 29 Aug 12

V_is_back says...

Alice in Her Own Land :P wrote:
reptile wrote:
She should receive a commendation for riding on the road as I've never seen a cyclist that's not pushing past people on the footpath.
Totally agree. But why wasn't she using the cycle path - designed FOR CYCLISTS?
Perhaps because there isn't a cycle path on Marine Parade?
[quote][p][bold]Alice in Her Own Land :P[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]reptile[/bold] wrote: She should receive a commendation for riding on the road as I've never seen a cyclist that's not pushing past people on the footpath.[/p][/quote]Totally agree. But why wasn't she using the cycle path - designed FOR CYCLISTS?[/p][/quote]Perhaps because there isn't a cycle path on Marine Parade? V_is_back
  • Score: 6

1:15pm Wed 29 Aug 12

rjsizzler says...

Everyone is missing a big point here - she is from Brentwood which has had a shared space throughout it's High Street since before Southend! Same sloping kerbs etc. She should be very familiar with it!
Everyone is missing a big point here - she is from Brentwood which has had a shared space throughout it's High Street since before Southend! Same sloping kerbs etc. She should be very familiar with it! rjsizzler
  • Score: 3

1:21pm Wed 29 Aug 12

V_is_back says...

PJR-121 wrote:
I thought the shared bit was the bit without kerbs anyway - with the big balls and the lighter coloured paving - so she wasn't even in it if she's hit the kerb!
Some of it has kerbs, some of it is flush with the road. Because of the colour of the paving it is difficult to see the small kerbs when walking or riding a bicycle on Marine Parade.

The best solution, because the road there is too narrow for cars to safely pass cyclists, is to ride far enough out so that cars can't try to squeeze past. That is the advice given by the Institute of Advanced Motorists.
[quote][p][bold]PJR-121[/bold] wrote: I thought the shared bit was the bit without kerbs anyway - with the big balls and the lighter coloured paving - so she wasn't even in it if she's hit the kerb![/p][/quote]Some of it has kerbs, some of it is flush with the road. Because of the colour of the paving it is difficult to see the small kerbs when walking or riding a bicycle on Marine Parade. The best solution, because the road there is too narrow for cars to safely pass cyclists, is to ride far enough out so that cars can't try to squeeze past. That is the advice given by the Institute of Advanced Motorists. V_is_back
  • Score: 3

1:30pm Wed 29 Aug 12

Eric Whim says...

rjsizzler wrote:
Everyone is missing a big point here - she is from Brentwood which has had a shared space throughout it's High Street since before Southend! Same sloping kerbs etc. She should be very familiar with it!
she probably doesn't cycle along that section though as it's cobbles make for a bit of a jarring ride........
[quote][p][bold]rjsizzler[/bold] wrote: Everyone is missing a big point here - she is from Brentwood which has had a shared space throughout it's High Street since before Southend! Same sloping kerbs etc. She should be very familiar with it![/p][/quote]she probably doesn't cycle along that section though as it's cobbles make for a bit of a jarring ride........ Eric Whim
  • Score: 1

1:35pm Wed 29 Aug 12

j-w says...

rjsizzler wrote:
Everyone is missing a big point here - she is from Brentwood which has had a shared space throughout it's High Street since before Southend! Same sloping kerbs etc. She should be very familiar with it!
smells of skipp !
[quote][p][bold]rjsizzler[/bold] wrote: Everyone is missing a big point here - she is from Brentwood which has had a shared space throughout it's High Street since before Southend! Same sloping kerbs etc. She should be very familiar with it![/p][/quote]smells of skipp ! j-w
  • Score: 0

2:37pm Wed 29 Aug 12

Max Impact says...

j-w wrote:
rjsizzler wrote: Everyone is missing a big point here - she is from Brentwood which has had a shared space throughout it's High Street since before Southend! Same sloping kerbs etc. She should be very familiar with it!
smells of skipp !
They will be devistated to that hear Eric Pickles has approved the Cliffs Museum.
[quote][p][bold]j-w[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]rjsizzler[/bold] wrote: Everyone is missing a big point here - she is from Brentwood which has had a shared space throughout it's High Street since before Southend! Same sloping kerbs etc. She should be very familiar with it![/p][/quote]smells of skipp ![/p][/quote]They will be devistated to that hear Eric Pickles has approved the Cliffs Museum. Max Impact
  • Score: -2

2:48pm Wed 29 Aug 12

Nebs says...

If she sues the council then the council should make clear that they will expect costs when they win.
If she sues the council then the council should make clear that they will expect costs when they win. Nebs
  • Score: 2

3:14pm Wed 29 Aug 12

SoTyred says...

As someone who both drives and cycles regularly along the seafront, I can understand the difficulty in knowing where the boundary is between the road and pavement. A white line along the edge of the road would solve that and, in my opinion, make the area safer for everyone. Also I really don’t think it is clear what the shared zone actually means? Do you?

But would I sue if I hit a kerb when cycling there? No, of course not.

In any case, far more dangerous are the idiots who get out of their cars, step into the cycling lane or simply just stand in it in the area between Three Shells Beach and the casino. I have lost count how many times I have nearly hit someone. And if I do, I assume it would be me who ends up getting sued.
As someone who both drives and cycles regularly along the seafront, I can understand the difficulty in knowing where the boundary is between the road and pavement. A white line along the edge of the road would solve that and, in my opinion, make the area safer for everyone. Also I really don’t think it is clear what the shared zone actually means? Do you? But would I sue if I hit a kerb when cycling there? No, of course not. In any case, far more dangerous are the idiots who get out of their cars, step into the cycling lane or simply just stand in it in the area between Three Shells Beach and the casino. I have lost count how many times I have nearly hit someone. And if I do, I assume it would be me who ends up getting sued. SoTyred
  • Score: 3

3:37pm Wed 29 Aug 12

Keptquiettillnow says...

As I understand shared space it does away with the need for signs telling everyone what and where they should be, If you put a load of signs and white lines in then you might as well call it a road which is what the council was trying not to do.
As I understand shared space it does away with the need for signs telling everyone what and where they should be, If you put a load of signs and white lines in then you might as well call it a road which is what the council was trying not to do. Keptquiettillnow
  • Score: 0

4:04pm Wed 29 Aug 12

rjsizzler says...

Keptquiettillnow wrote:
As I understand shared space it does away with the need for signs telling everyone what and where they should be, If you put a load of signs and white lines in then you might as well call it a road which is what the council was trying not to do.
Exactly.

The aim appears to be to make people drive slowly through the lack of obvious division between road and pavement. But problems seem to arise when pedestians become confused as they aren't used to paying attention.
[quote][p][bold]Keptquiettillnow[/bold] wrote: As I understand shared space it does away with the need for signs telling everyone what and where they should be, If you put a load of signs and white lines in then you might as well call it a road which is what the council was trying not to do.[/p][/quote]Exactly. The aim appears to be to make people drive slowly through the lack of obvious division between road and pavement. But problems seem to arise when pedestians become confused as they aren't used to paying attention. rjsizzler
  • Score: 2

4:17pm Wed 29 Aug 12

V_is_back says...

Marine Parade is not a shared space because it has a road.

Here's an example in Auckland which shows how shared spaces are supposed to work.

http://youtu.be/OcyZ
Ay8DPb0
Marine Parade is not a shared space because it has a road. Here's an example in Auckland which shows how shared spaces are supposed to work. http://youtu.be/OcyZ Ay8DPb0 V_is_back
  • Score: 0

4:26pm Wed 29 Aug 12

V_is_back says...

SoTyred wrote:
As someone who both drives and cycles regularly along the seafront, I can understand the difficulty in knowing where the boundary is between the road and pavement. A white line along the edge of the road would solve that and, in my opinion, make the area safer for everyone. Also I really don’t think it is clear what the shared zone actually means? Do you?

But would I sue if I hit a kerb when cycling there? No, of course not.

In any case, far more dangerous are the idiots who get out of their cars, step into the cycling lane or simply just stand in it in the area between Three Shells Beach and the casino. I have lost count how many times I have nearly hit someone. And if I do, I assume it would be me who ends up getting sued.
White lines don't solve anything. Southend council promised white lines, double yellow lines and a two-inch kerb would stop people driving and parking in the Western Esplanade cycle path. They haven't. Go along there any Friday or Saturday night and the cycle path will be full of parked cars.
[quote][p][bold]SoTyred[/bold] wrote: As someone who both drives and cycles regularly along the seafront, I can understand the difficulty in knowing where the boundary is between the road and pavement. A white line along the edge of the road would solve that and, in my opinion, make the area safer for everyone. Also I really don’t think it is clear what the shared zone actually means? Do you? But would I sue if I hit a kerb when cycling there? No, of course not. In any case, far more dangerous are the idiots who get out of their cars, step into the cycling lane or simply just stand in it in the area between Three Shells Beach and the casino. I have lost count how many times I have nearly hit someone. And if I do, I assume it would be me who ends up getting sued.[/p][/quote]White lines don't solve anything. Southend council promised white lines, double yellow lines and a two-inch kerb would stop people driving and parking in the Western Esplanade cycle path. They haven't. Go along there any Friday or Saturday night and the cycle path will be full of parked cars. V_is_back
  • Score: 0

4:44pm Wed 29 Aug 12

firedog says...

Should have gone to Specsavers,silly moo
Should have gone to Specsavers,silly moo firedog
  • Score: 1

5:47pm Wed 29 Aug 12

beyond the valley of the asbos says...

anyone got the number for ambulancechasersdire
ct.co.uk?
anyone got the number for ambulancechasersdire ct.co.uk? beyond the valley of the asbos
  • Score: 2

6:17pm Wed 29 Aug 12

SoTyred says...

V_is_back wrote:
SoTyred wrote:
As someone who both drives and cycles regularly along the seafront, I can understand the difficulty in knowing where the boundary is between the road and pavement. A white line along the edge of the road would solve that and, in my opinion, make the area safer for everyone. Also I really don’t think it is clear what the shared zone actually means? Do you?

But would I sue if I hit a kerb when cycling there? No, of course not.

In any case, far more dangerous are the idiots who get out of their cars, step into the cycling lane or simply just stand in it in the area between Three Shells Beach and the casino. I have lost count how many times I have nearly hit someone. And if I do, I assume it would be me who ends up getting sued.
White lines don't solve anything. Southend council promised white lines, double yellow lines and a two-inch kerb would stop people driving and parking in the Western Esplanade cycle path. They haven't. Go along there any Friday or Saturday night and the cycle path will be full of parked cars.
not forgetting anyone delivering, emptying bins, etc, etc
[quote][p][bold]V_is_back[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]SoTyred[/bold] wrote: As someone who both drives and cycles regularly along the seafront, I can understand the difficulty in knowing where the boundary is between the road and pavement. A white line along the edge of the road would solve that and, in my opinion, make the area safer for everyone. Also I really don’t think it is clear what the shared zone actually means? Do you? But would I sue if I hit a kerb when cycling there? No, of course not. In any case, far more dangerous are the idiots who get out of their cars, step into the cycling lane or simply just stand in it in the area between Three Shells Beach and the casino. I have lost count how many times I have nearly hit someone. And if I do, I assume it would be me who ends up getting sued.[/p][/quote]White lines don't solve anything. Southend council promised white lines, double yellow lines and a two-inch kerb would stop people driving and parking in the Western Esplanade cycle path. They haven't. Go along there any Friday or Saturday night and the cycle path will be full of parked cars.[/p][/quote]not forgetting anyone delivering, emptying bins, etc, etc SoTyred
  • Score: 0

6:45pm Wed 29 Aug 12

southendshrimper says...

Typical out of towner wanting to make a few £s. How many more cyclists have gone along without trouble? Take more care in a town you don't know.f
Typical out of towner wanting to make a few £s. How many more cyclists have gone along without trouble? Take more care in a town you don't know.f southendshrimper
  • Score: 2

7:01pm Wed 29 Aug 12

Brunning999 says...

The woman is bonkers, what more can a council do as required by health and safety.

She will lose a claim, otherwise us local tax payers will be broke.
The woman is bonkers, what more can a council do as required by health and safety. She will lose a claim, otherwise us local tax payers will be broke. Brunning999
  • Score: 3

8:04pm Wed 29 Aug 12

Almeda11 says...

reptile wrote:
She should receive a commendation for riding on the road as I've never seen a cyclist that's not pushing past people on the footpath.
l am 65 and l ALWAYS cycle on the roads, and l do see others who do too, but many more cycle on the pavements, pavements which are wide enough in many places to support a cycle track by means of a white line painted either on the outside of that pavement or the inside of the road.
There are many areas, particularly along the most direct route, the London Rd, from Highlands in Leigh to Southend Victoria Plaza, but our short sighted council lacks the will to do this, it`s done in most of the continent with great successs, just what is wrong with this country?
[quote][p][bold]reptile[/bold] wrote: She should receive a commendation for riding on the road as I've never seen a cyclist that's not pushing past people on the footpath.[/p][/quote]l am 65 and l ALWAYS cycle on the roads, and l do see others who do too, but many more cycle on the pavements, pavements which are wide enough in many places to support a cycle track by means of a white line painted either on the outside of that pavement or the inside of the road. There are many areas, particularly along the most direct route, the London Rd, from Highlands in Leigh to Southend Victoria Plaza, but our short sighted council lacks the will to do this, it`s done in most of the continent with great successs, just what is wrong with this country? Almeda11
  • Score: 0

8:12pm Wed 29 Aug 12

V_is_back says...

Almeda11 wrote:
reptile wrote:
She should receive a commendation for riding on the road as I've never seen a cyclist that's not pushing past people on the footpath.
l am 65 and l ALWAYS cycle on the roads, and l do see others who do too, but many more cycle on the pavements, pavements which are wide enough in many places to support a cycle track by means of a white line painted either on the outside of that pavement or the inside of the road.
There are many areas, particularly along the most direct route, the London Rd, from Highlands in Leigh to Southend Victoria Plaza, but our short sighted council lacks the will to do this, it`s done in most of the continent with great successs, just what is wrong with this country?
The absolute worst cycle facilities are those painted on pavements. People walk in them, they are too narrow, they have street furniture like lampposts and signs in them, you cannot proceed at a useful speed, you have to stop for every side turning.
[quote][p][bold]Almeda11[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]reptile[/bold] wrote: She should receive a commendation for riding on the road as I've never seen a cyclist that's not pushing past people on the footpath.[/p][/quote]l am 65 and l ALWAYS cycle on the roads, and l do see others who do too, but many more cycle on the pavements, pavements which are wide enough in many places to support a cycle track by means of a white line painted either on the outside of that pavement or the inside of the road. There are many areas, particularly along the most direct route, the London Rd, from Highlands in Leigh to Southend Victoria Plaza, but our short sighted council lacks the will to do this, it`s done in most of the continent with great successs, just what is wrong with this country?[/p][/quote]The absolute worst cycle facilities are those painted on pavements. People walk in them, they are too narrow, they have street furniture like lampposts and signs in them, you cannot proceed at a useful speed, you have to stop for every side turning. V_is_back
  • Score: -1

8:16pm Wed 29 Aug 12

Almeda11 says...

V_is_back wrote:
SoTyred wrote: As someone who both drives and cycles regularly along the seafront, I can understand the difficulty in knowing where the boundary is between the road and pavement. A white line along the edge of the road would solve that and, in my opinion, make the area safer for everyone. Also I really don’t think it is clear what the shared zone actually means? Do you? But would I sue if I hit a kerb when cycling there? No, of course not. In any case, far more dangerous are the idiots who get out of their cars, step into the cycling lane or simply just stand in it in the area between Three Shells Beach and the casino. I have lost count how many times I have nearly hit someone. And if I do, I assume it would be me who ends up getting sued.
White lines don't solve anything. Southend council promised white lines, double yellow lines and a two-inch kerb would stop people driving and parking in the Western Esplanade cycle path. They haven't. Go along there any Friday or Saturday night and the cycle path will be full of parked cars.
White lines COULD solve the problem, AND the problem of parked cars, which SHOULDN`T be there IF people did their jobs properly and enforced the rule of law, Southend is PATHETIC, as in any other place where they do not enforce, on the continent and in parts of London they do, at the end of the day it`s for the benefit of all, not just the selfish few.
[quote][p][bold]V_is_back[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]SoTyred[/bold] wrote: As someone who both drives and cycles regularly along the seafront, I can understand the difficulty in knowing where the boundary is between the road and pavement. A white line along the edge of the road would solve that and, in my opinion, make the area safer for everyone. Also I really don’t think it is clear what the shared zone actually means? Do you? But would I sue if I hit a kerb when cycling there? No, of course not. In any case, far more dangerous are the idiots who get out of their cars, step into the cycling lane or simply just stand in it in the area between Three Shells Beach and the casino. I have lost count how many times I have nearly hit someone. And if I do, I assume it would be me who ends up getting sued.[/p][/quote]White lines don't solve anything. Southend council promised white lines, double yellow lines and a two-inch kerb would stop people driving and parking in the Western Esplanade cycle path. They haven't. Go along there any Friday or Saturday night and the cycle path will be full of parked cars.[/p][/quote]White lines COULD solve the problem, AND the problem of parked cars, which SHOULDN`T be there IF people did their jobs properly and enforced the rule of law, Southend is PATHETIC, as in any other place where they do not enforce, on the continent and in parts of London they do, at the end of the day it`s for the benefit of all, not just the selfish few. Almeda11
  • Score: -1

8:18pm Wed 29 Aug 12

Nebs says...

If this womans eyesight is so bad that she cannot see a kerb then it must bring into doubt her ability to be allowed to ride a bicycle on a public highway. Or drive a car. A report to the DVLA would seem to be in order before someone else gets hurt.
If this womans eyesight is so bad that she cannot see a kerb then it must bring into doubt her ability to be allowed to ride a bicycle on a public highway. Or drive a car. A report to the DVLA would seem to be in order before someone else gets hurt. Nebs
  • Score: 2

8:20pm Wed 29 Aug 12

V_is_back says...

Nebs wrote:
If this womans eyesight is so bad that she cannot see a kerb then it must bring into doubt her ability to be allowed to ride a bicycle on a public highway. Or drive a car. A report to the DVLA would seem to be in order before someone else gets hurt.
There's a six inch step in this picture. Can you see it?

http://bit.ly/NW5rNu
[quote][p][bold]Nebs[/bold] wrote: If this womans eyesight is so bad that she cannot see a kerb then it must bring into doubt her ability to be allowed to ride a bicycle on a public highway. Or drive a car. A report to the DVLA would seem to be in order before someone else gets hurt.[/p][/quote]There's a six inch step in this picture. Can you see it? http://bit.ly/NW5rNu V_is_back
  • Score: 2

8:27pm Wed 29 Aug 12

Almeda11 says...

V_is_back wrote:
Almeda11 wrote:
reptile wrote: She should receive a commendation for riding on the road as I've never seen a cyclist that's not pushing past people on the footpath.
l am 65 and l ALWAYS cycle on the roads, and l do see others who do too, but many more cycle on the pavements, pavements which are wide enough in many places to support a cycle track by means of a white line painted either on the outside of that pavement or the inside of the road. There are many areas, particularly along the most direct route, the London Rd, from Highlands in Leigh to Southend Victoria Plaza, but our short sighted council lacks the will to do this, it`s done in most of the continent with great successs, just what is wrong with this country?
The absolute worst cycle facilities are those painted on pavements. People walk in them, they are too narrow, they have street furniture like lampposts and signs in them, you cannot proceed at a useful speed, you have to stop for every side turning.
l`m not talking about those little diagrams with " BIKE" plastered all over them am l???
l said a single white line, or other indicator, grey, whatever.
THESE WORK WELL on the continent where l have travelled widely, particularly Germany and Holland, where they have more imagination and common sense.
ln Germany for example, when these tracks cross side streets, in some areas they even have their own small set of traffic lights, other areas the pavement is divided, 50/50 equally for pedestrians and cyclists.
There is no trouble, if a cyclist is coming up to a couple of pedestrians and needs to pass they just politely give a ring with their bell and people give them room to pass, there, unlike here unfortunately, they know the spirit of co-operation and it works well!
[quote][p][bold]V_is_back[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Almeda11[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]reptile[/bold] wrote: She should receive a commendation for riding on the road as I've never seen a cyclist that's not pushing past people on the footpath.[/p][/quote]l am 65 and l ALWAYS cycle on the roads, and l do see others who do too, but many more cycle on the pavements, pavements which are wide enough in many places to support a cycle track by means of a white line painted either on the outside of that pavement or the inside of the road. There are many areas, particularly along the most direct route, the London Rd, from Highlands in Leigh to Southend Victoria Plaza, but our short sighted council lacks the will to do this, it`s done in most of the continent with great successs, just what is wrong with this country?[/p][/quote]The absolute worst cycle facilities are those painted on pavements. People walk in them, they are too narrow, they have street furniture like lampposts and signs in them, you cannot proceed at a useful speed, you have to stop for every side turning.[/p][/quote]l`m not talking about those little diagrams with " BIKE" plastered all over them am l??? l said a single white line, or other indicator, grey, whatever. THESE WORK WELL on the continent where l have travelled widely, particularly Germany and Holland, where they have more imagination and common sense. ln Germany for example, when these tracks cross side streets, in some areas they even have their own small set of traffic lights, other areas the pavement is divided, 50/50 equally for pedestrians and cyclists. There is no trouble, if a cyclist is coming up to a couple of pedestrians and needs to pass they just politely give a ring with their bell and people give them room to pass, there, unlike here unfortunately, they know the spirit of co-operation and it works well! Almeda11
  • Score: 0

9:11pm Wed 29 Aug 12

V_is_back says...

Almeda11 wrote:
V_is_back wrote:
Almeda11 wrote:
reptile wrote: She should receive a commendation for riding on the road as I've never seen a cyclist that's not pushing past people on the footpath.
l am 65 and l ALWAYS cycle on the roads, and l do see others who do too, but many more cycle on the pavements, pavements which are wide enough in many places to support a cycle track by means of a white line painted either on the outside of that pavement or the inside of the road. There are many areas, particularly along the most direct route, the London Rd, from Highlands in Leigh to Southend Victoria Plaza, but our short sighted council lacks the will to do this, it`s done in most of the continent with great successs, just what is wrong with this country?
The absolute worst cycle facilities are those painted on pavements. People walk in them, they are too narrow, they have street furniture like lampposts and signs in them, you cannot proceed at a useful speed, you have to stop for every side turning.
l`m not talking about those little diagrams with " BIKE" plastered all over them am l???
l said a single white line, or other indicator, grey, whatever.
THESE WORK WELL on the continent where l have travelled widely, particularly Germany and Holland, where they have more imagination and common sense.
ln Germany for example, when these tracks cross side streets, in some areas they even have their own small set of traffic lights, other areas the pavement is divided, 50/50 equally for pedestrians and cyclists.
There is no trouble, if a cyclist is coming up to a couple of pedestrians and needs to pass they just politely give a ring with their bell and people give them room to pass, there, unlike here unfortunately, they know the spirit of co-operation and it works well!
As I said, full of pedestrians and you have to stop at EVERY side turning. Utterly useless for any meaningful travel. The road is quicker and safer.
[quote][p][bold]Almeda11[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]V_is_back[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Almeda11[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]reptile[/bold] wrote: She should receive a commendation for riding on the road as I've never seen a cyclist that's not pushing past people on the footpath.[/p][/quote]l am 65 and l ALWAYS cycle on the roads, and l do see others who do too, but many more cycle on the pavements, pavements which are wide enough in many places to support a cycle track by means of a white line painted either on the outside of that pavement or the inside of the road. There are many areas, particularly along the most direct route, the London Rd, from Highlands in Leigh to Southend Victoria Plaza, but our short sighted council lacks the will to do this, it`s done in most of the continent with great successs, just what is wrong with this country?[/p][/quote]The absolute worst cycle facilities are those painted on pavements. People walk in them, they are too narrow, they have street furniture like lampposts and signs in them, you cannot proceed at a useful speed, you have to stop for every side turning.[/p][/quote]l`m not talking about those little diagrams with " BIKE" plastered all over them am l??? l said a single white line, or other indicator, grey, whatever. THESE WORK WELL on the continent where l have travelled widely, particularly Germany and Holland, where they have more imagination and common sense. ln Germany for example, when these tracks cross side streets, in some areas they even have their own small set of traffic lights, other areas the pavement is divided, 50/50 equally for pedestrians and cyclists. There is no trouble, if a cyclist is coming up to a couple of pedestrians and needs to pass they just politely give a ring with their bell and people give them room to pass, there, unlike here unfortunately, they know the spirit of co-operation and it works well![/p][/quote]As I said, full of pedestrians and you have to stop at EVERY side turning. Utterly useless for any meaningful travel. The road is quicker and safer. V_is_back
  • Score: -1

9:29pm Wed 29 Aug 12

beyond the valley of the asbos says...

maybe we can get sbc to pay for all cyclists to be shrouded in bubble wrap before entering the shared space. or maybe we can expect those using the shared space to have a pair of eyes in their head and an ounce of common sense. actually second thoughts let's get vitriol to pay for the bubble wrap.
maybe we can get sbc to pay for all cyclists to be shrouded in bubble wrap before entering the shared space. or maybe we can expect those using the shared space to have a pair of eyes in their head and an ounce of common sense. actually second thoughts let's get vitriol to pay for the bubble wrap. beyond the valley of the asbos
  • Score: 0

10:43pm Wed 29 Aug 12

Almeda11 says...

V_is_back wrote:
Almeda11 wrote:
V_is_back wrote:
Almeda11 wrote:
reptile wrote: She should receive a commendation for riding on the road as I've never seen a cyclist that's not pushing past people on the footpath.
l am 65 and l ALWAYS cycle on the roads, and l do see others who do too, but many more cycle on the pavements, pavements which are wide enough in many places to support a cycle track by means of a white line painted either on the outside of that pavement or the inside of the road. There are many areas, particularly along the most direct route, the London Rd, from Highlands in Leigh to Southend Victoria Plaza, but our short sighted council lacks the will to do this, it`s done in most of the continent with great successs, just what is wrong with this country?
The absolute worst cycle facilities are those painted on pavements. People walk in them, they are too narrow, they have street furniture like lampposts and signs in them, you cannot proceed at a useful speed, you have to stop for every side turning.
l`m not talking about those little diagrams with " BIKE" plastered all over them am l??? l said a single white line, or other indicator, grey, whatever. THESE WORK WELL on the continent where l have travelled widely, particularly Germany and Holland, where they have more imagination and common sense. ln Germany for example, when these tracks cross side streets, in some areas they even have their own small set of traffic lights, other areas the pavement is divided, 50/50 equally for pedestrians and cyclists. There is no trouble, if a cyclist is coming up to a couple of pedestrians and needs to pass they just politely give a ring with their bell and people give them room to pass, there, unlike here unfortunately, they know the spirit of co-operation and it works well!
As I said, full of pedestrians and you have to stop at EVERY side turning. Utterly useless for any meaningful travel. The road is quicker and safer.
Yes, what you said earlier about street furniture is true enough, but to be honest they are not exactly on every street corner are they, just a very few here and there. Most streets here are not that different than on the continent, and they also are full of pedestrians.
The difference between here and there is the approach.
There, they do have the dividing line and it works! people walk on the pedestrian part, and cyclists keep to the cyclying part.
Where the actual pavement is used by both, this is simply indicated by a sign every so often that shows a picture of a cyclist on one side and a pedestrian on the other, so that everyone knows it is for both, a bit like shared space, but strictly only for cyclists and pedestrians, this is the bit where, if 2 people are walking abreast and the cyclist wants to pass, they ring, and people move aside to let them, l`ve never seen any problems or unpleasantness, people just accept it and co operate with each other, l think we could learn some lessons here from that!!

When the cycle path is separate from the pavement then obviously it`s easier as the bounderies are completely separate.
[quote][p][bold]V_is_back[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Almeda11[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]V_is_back[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Almeda11[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]reptile[/bold] wrote: She should receive a commendation for riding on the road as I've never seen a cyclist that's not pushing past people on the footpath.[/p][/quote]l am 65 and l ALWAYS cycle on the roads, and l do see others who do too, but many more cycle on the pavements, pavements which are wide enough in many places to support a cycle track by means of a white line painted either on the outside of that pavement or the inside of the road. There are many areas, particularly along the most direct route, the London Rd, from Highlands in Leigh to Southend Victoria Plaza, but our short sighted council lacks the will to do this, it`s done in most of the continent with great successs, just what is wrong with this country?[/p][/quote]The absolute worst cycle facilities are those painted on pavements. People walk in them, they are too narrow, they have street furniture like lampposts and signs in them, you cannot proceed at a useful speed, you have to stop for every side turning.[/p][/quote]l`m not talking about those little diagrams with " BIKE" plastered all over them am l??? l said a single white line, or other indicator, grey, whatever. THESE WORK WELL on the continent where l have travelled widely, particularly Germany and Holland, where they have more imagination and common sense. ln Germany for example, when these tracks cross side streets, in some areas they even have their own small set of traffic lights, other areas the pavement is divided, 50/50 equally for pedestrians and cyclists. There is no trouble, if a cyclist is coming up to a couple of pedestrians and needs to pass they just politely give a ring with their bell and people give them room to pass, there, unlike here unfortunately, they know the spirit of co-operation and it works well![/p][/quote]As I said, full of pedestrians and you have to stop at EVERY side turning. Utterly useless for any meaningful travel. The road is quicker and safer.[/p][/quote]Yes, what you said earlier about street furniture is true enough, but to be honest they are not exactly on every street corner are they, just a very few here and there. Most streets here are not that different than on the continent, and they also are full of pedestrians. The difference between here and there is the approach. There, they do have the dividing line and it works! people walk on the pedestrian part, and cyclists keep to the cyclying part. Where the actual pavement is used by both, this is simply indicated by a sign every so often that shows a picture of a cyclist on one side and a pedestrian on the other, so that everyone knows it is for both, a bit like shared space, but strictly only for cyclists and pedestrians, this is the bit where, if 2 people are walking abreast and the cyclist wants to pass, they ring, and people move aside to let them, l`ve never seen any problems or unpleasantness, people just accept it and co operate with each other, l think we could learn some lessons here from that!! When the cycle path is separate from the pavement then obviously it`s easier as the bounderies are completely separate. Almeda11
  • Score: 1

10:48pm Wed 29 Aug 12

V_is_back says...

Almeda11 wrote:
V_is_back wrote:
Almeda11 wrote:
V_is_back wrote:
Almeda11 wrote:
reptile wrote: She should receive a commendation for riding on the road as I've never seen a cyclist that's not pushing past people on the footpath.
l am 65 and l ALWAYS cycle on the roads, and l do see others who do too, but many more cycle on the pavements, pavements which are wide enough in many places to support a cycle track by means of a white line painted either on the outside of that pavement or the inside of the road. There are many areas, particularly along the most direct route, the London Rd, from Highlands in Leigh to Southend Victoria Plaza, but our short sighted council lacks the will to do this, it`s done in most of the continent with great successs, just what is wrong with this country?
The absolute worst cycle facilities are those painted on pavements. People walk in them, they are too narrow, they have street furniture like lampposts and signs in them, you cannot proceed at a useful speed, you have to stop for every side turning.
l`m not talking about those little diagrams with " BIKE" plastered all over them am l??? l said a single white line, or other indicator, grey, whatever. THESE WORK WELL on the continent where l have travelled widely, particularly Germany and Holland, where they have more imagination and common sense. ln Germany for example, when these tracks cross side streets, in some areas they even have their own small set of traffic lights, other areas the pavement is divided, 50/50 equally for pedestrians and cyclists. There is no trouble, if a cyclist is coming up to a couple of pedestrians and needs to pass they just politely give a ring with their bell and people give them room to pass, there, unlike here unfortunately, they know the spirit of co-operation and it works well!
As I said, full of pedestrians and you have to stop at EVERY side turning. Utterly useless for any meaningful travel. The road is quicker and safer.
Yes, what you said earlier about street furniture is true enough, but to be honest they are not exactly on every street corner are they, just a very few here and there. Most streets here are not that different than on the continent, and they also are full of pedestrians.
The difference between here and there is the approach.
There, they do have the dividing line and it works! people walk on the pedestrian part, and cyclists keep to the cyclying part.
Where the actual pavement is used by both, this is simply indicated by a sign every so often that shows a picture of a cyclist on one side and a pedestrian on the other, so that everyone knows it is for both, a bit like shared space, but strictly only for cyclists and pedestrians, this is the bit where, if 2 people are walking abreast and the cyclist wants to pass, they ring, and people move aside to let them, l`ve never seen any problems or unpleasantness, people just accept it and co operate with each other, l think we could learn some lessons here from that!!

When the cycle path is separate from the pavement then obviously it`s easier as the bounderies are completely separate.
The road is safer. Pavements are for pedestrians, roads are for bicycles.
[quote][p][bold]Almeda11[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]V_is_back[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Almeda11[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]V_is_back[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Almeda11[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]reptile[/bold] wrote: She should receive a commendation for riding on the road as I've never seen a cyclist that's not pushing past people on the footpath.[/p][/quote]l am 65 and l ALWAYS cycle on the roads, and l do see others who do too, but many more cycle on the pavements, pavements which are wide enough in many places to support a cycle track by means of a white line painted either on the outside of that pavement or the inside of the road. There are many areas, particularly along the most direct route, the London Rd, from Highlands in Leigh to Southend Victoria Plaza, but our short sighted council lacks the will to do this, it`s done in most of the continent with great successs, just what is wrong with this country?[/p][/quote]The absolute worst cycle facilities are those painted on pavements. People walk in them, they are too narrow, they have street furniture like lampposts and signs in them, you cannot proceed at a useful speed, you have to stop for every side turning.[/p][/quote]l`m not talking about those little diagrams with " BIKE" plastered all over them am l??? l said a single white line, or other indicator, grey, whatever. THESE WORK WELL on the continent where l have travelled widely, particularly Germany and Holland, where they have more imagination and common sense. ln Germany for example, when these tracks cross side streets, in some areas they even have their own small set of traffic lights, other areas the pavement is divided, 50/50 equally for pedestrians and cyclists. There is no trouble, if a cyclist is coming up to a couple of pedestrians and needs to pass they just politely give a ring with their bell and people give them room to pass, there, unlike here unfortunately, they know the spirit of co-operation and it works well![/p][/quote]As I said, full of pedestrians and you have to stop at EVERY side turning. Utterly useless for any meaningful travel. The road is quicker and safer.[/p][/quote]Yes, what you said earlier about street furniture is true enough, but to be honest they are not exactly on every street corner are they, just a very few here and there. Most streets here are not that different than on the continent, and they also are full of pedestrians. The difference between here and there is the approach. There, they do have the dividing line and it works! people walk on the pedestrian part, and cyclists keep to the cyclying part. Where the actual pavement is used by both, this is simply indicated by a sign every so often that shows a picture of a cyclist on one side and a pedestrian on the other, so that everyone knows it is for both, a bit like shared space, but strictly only for cyclists and pedestrians, this is the bit where, if 2 people are walking abreast and the cyclist wants to pass, they ring, and people move aside to let them, l`ve never seen any problems or unpleasantness, people just accept it and co operate with each other, l think we could learn some lessons here from that!! When the cycle path is separate from the pavement then obviously it`s easier as the bounderies are completely separate.[/p][/quote]The road is safer. Pavements are for pedestrians, roads are for bicycles. V_is_back
  • Score: 2

10:50pm Wed 29 Aug 12

jayman says...

lets face it.

as bad ideas go this one has knocked on the door several times while shouting "im a bad idea" been invited in, given a glass of council tax payer funded fine port, had a **** fuelled night with common senses wife, smoked a cigarette out of the packet of 20 ridiculous. and stuffed its cardigan with cash on its way out in the morning.
lets face it. as bad ideas go this one has knocked on the door several times while shouting "im a bad idea" been invited in, given a glass of council tax payer funded fine port, had a **** fuelled night with common senses wife, smoked a cigarette out of the packet of 20 ridiculous. and stuffed its cardigan with cash on its way out in the morning. jayman
  • Score: -2

10:53pm Wed 29 Aug 12

jayman says...

the bad idea in question is by the way SBC's 'unique interpretation' of what shared space is supposed to be..
the bad idea in question is by the way SBC's 'unique interpretation' of what shared space is supposed to be.. jayman
  • Score: -1

12:01am Thu 30 Aug 12

Nebs says...

V_is_back wrote:
Nebs wrote:
If this womans eyesight is so bad that she cannot see a kerb then it must bring into doubt her ability to be allowed to ride a bicycle on a public highway. Or drive a car. A report to the DVLA would seem to be in order before someone else gets hurt.
There's a six inch step in this picture. Can you see it?

http://bit.ly/NW5rNu
By the shadow of the cyclists shoulders, looks obvious to me.
[quote][p][bold]V_is_back[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Nebs[/bold] wrote: If this womans eyesight is so bad that she cannot see a kerb then it must bring into doubt her ability to be allowed to ride a bicycle on a public highway. Or drive a car. A report to the DVLA would seem to be in order before someone else gets hurt.[/p][/quote]There's a six inch step in this picture. Can you see it? http://bit.ly/NW5rNu[/p][/quote]By the shadow of the cyclists shoulders, looks obvious to me. Nebs
  • Score: 1

3:35am Thu 30 Aug 12

v.randy says...

I like the idea of a shared space it sounds so socialist but i'm still not too sure just how it works.

Crossing the shared space with my children seems rather tedious as neither
the pedestrian (me) or the car driver actually knows precisely who has right of way.
Either I can just step out and bring the traffic to a halt (hopefully) or wait until a driver makes eye contact with me indicating that he will stop and allow me passage.
Either way NOT CLEAR and where ever there is doubt or confusion you will get problems.This is why the M.O.T has spent decades painting black and white strips on our roads at regular intervals in order to allow us safe passage..I think they are called 'zebra's'.
I like the idea of a shared space it sounds so socialist but i'm still not too sure just how it works. Crossing the shared space with my children seems rather tedious as neither the pedestrian (me) or the car driver actually knows precisely who has right of way. Either I can just step out and bring the traffic to a halt (hopefully) or wait until a driver makes eye contact with me indicating that he will stop and allow me passage. Either way NOT CLEAR and where ever there is doubt or confusion you will get problems.This is why the M.O.T has spent decades painting black and white strips on our roads at regular intervals in order to allow us safe passage..I think they are called 'zebra's'. v.randy
  • Score: 0

7:47am Thu 30 Aug 12

tatersalad says...

Richy don't shine shoes no more wrote:
What about all the people hit by cyclists? Are they suing too
I agree, all road and pavement users including bikes and disability scooters should have insurance too.
[quote][p][bold]Richy don't shine shoes no more[/bold] wrote: What about all the people hit by cyclists? Are they suing too[/p][/quote]I agree, all road and pavement users including bikes and disability scooters should have insurance too. tatersalad
  • Score: 1

7:50am Thu 30 Aug 12

V_is_back says...

Nebs wrote:
V_is_back wrote:
Nebs wrote:
If this womans eyesight is so bad that she cannot see a kerb then it must bring into doubt her ability to be allowed to ride a bicycle on a public highway. Or drive a car. A report to the DVLA would seem to be in order before someone else gets hurt.
There's a six inch step in this picture. Can you see it?

http://bit.ly/NW5rNu
By the shadow of the cyclists shoulders, looks obvious to me.
The fact you needed to look for the person's shadow rather proves the point that the step itself is not visible. Thank you.
[quote][p][bold]Nebs[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]V_is_back[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Nebs[/bold] wrote: If this womans eyesight is so bad that she cannot see a kerb then it must bring into doubt her ability to be allowed to ride a bicycle on a public highway. Or drive a car. A report to the DVLA would seem to be in order before someone else gets hurt.[/p][/quote]There's a six inch step in this picture. Can you see it? http://bit.ly/NW5rNu[/p][/quote]By the shadow of the cyclists shoulders, looks obvious to me.[/p][/quote]The fact you needed to look for the person's shadow rather proves the point that the step itself is not visible. Thank you. V_is_back
  • Score: -3

7:51am Thu 30 Aug 12

V_is_back says...

tatersalad wrote:
Richy don't shine shoes no more wrote:
What about all the people hit by cyclists? Are they suing too
I agree, all road and pavement users including bikes and disability scooters should have insurance too.
Pedestrian insurance? How's that going to work?
[quote][p][bold]tatersalad[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Richy don't shine shoes no more[/bold] wrote: What about all the people hit by cyclists? Are they suing too[/p][/quote]I agree, all road and pavement users including bikes and disability scooters should have insurance too.[/p][/quote]Pedestrian insurance? How's that going to work? V_is_back
  • Score: 0

11:06am Thu 30 Aug 12

Nebs says...

V_is_back wrote:
Nebs wrote:
V_is_back wrote:
Nebs wrote:
If this womans eyesight is so bad that she cannot see a kerb then it must bring into doubt her ability to be allowed to ride a bicycle on a public highway. Or drive a car. A report to the DVLA would seem to be in order before someone else gets hurt.
There's a six inch step in this picture. Can you see it?

http://bit.ly/NW5rNu
By the shadow of the cyclists shoulders, looks obvious to me.
The fact you needed to look for the person's shadow rather proves the point that the step itself is not visible. Thank you.
It just seemed the easiest way to describe the location. Perhaps I should have just said YES in answer to your question.
[quote][p][bold]V_is_back[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Nebs[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]V_is_back[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Nebs[/bold] wrote: If this womans eyesight is so bad that she cannot see a kerb then it must bring into doubt her ability to be allowed to ride a bicycle on a public highway. Or drive a car. A report to the DVLA would seem to be in order before someone else gets hurt.[/p][/quote]There's a six inch step in this picture. Can you see it? http://bit.ly/NW5rNu[/p][/quote]By the shadow of the cyclists shoulders, looks obvious to me.[/p][/quote]The fact you needed to look for the person's shadow rather proves the point that the step itself is not visible. Thank you.[/p][/quote]It just seemed the easiest way to describe the location. Perhaps I should have just said YES in answer to your question. Nebs
  • Score: 1

1:24pm Thu 30 Aug 12

dotdot says...

I cycle here regulary and totally agree with the lady - the kerbs are invisible. Parts of the kerbs are sloped and parts are not. I've almost fallen off my bike here too. It is so dangerous and something really needs to be done.
I cycle here regulary and totally agree with the lady - the kerbs are invisible. Parts of the kerbs are sloped and parts are not. I've almost fallen off my bike here too. It is so dangerous and something really needs to be done. dotdot
  • Score: 0

1:59pm Thu 30 Aug 12

beyond the valley of the asbos says...

dotdot wrote:
I cycle here regulary and totally agree with the lady - the kerbs are invisible. Parts of the kerbs are sloped and parts are not. I've almost fallen off my bike here too. It is so dangerous and something really needs to be done.
have you tried opening your eyes whilst pedaling?
[quote][p][bold]dotdot[/bold] wrote: I cycle here regulary and totally agree with the lady - the kerbs are invisible. Parts of the kerbs are sloped and parts are not. I've almost fallen off my bike here too. It is so dangerous and something really needs to be done.[/p][/quote]have you tried opening your eyes whilst pedaling? beyond the valley of the asbos
  • Score: 0

7:38pm Thu 30 Aug 12

EssexPerson says...

The dozy cow tripped over and is solely her own fault. No one pushed her, hit her she just didnt open her eyes. Get a life and accept your own blame.
The dozy cow tripped over and is solely her own fault. No one pushed her, hit her she just didnt open her eyes. Get a life and accept your own blame. EssexPerson
  • Score: -1

2:09am Fri 31 Aug 12

John the resonator says...

Happened to be in that area today, on foot in both directions then drove away from the car park by Sea Adventure towards the pier. OK it is easy once we know what happened but honestly the kerb seemed very clear. I agree with posters commenting that we would need a sign for every kerb with anything slightly unpredictable about them. And hey, I am also a cyclist, aren't we supposed to have a heightened awareness of road surfaces or any irregularities for obvious reasons?
Happened to be in that area today, on foot in both directions then drove away from the car park by Sea Adventure towards the pier. OK it is easy once we know what happened but honestly the kerb seemed very clear. I agree with posters commenting that we would need a sign for every kerb with anything slightly unpredictable about them. And hey, I am also a cyclist, aren't we supposed to have a heightened awareness of road surfaces or any irregularities for obvious reasons? John the resonator
  • Score: 0

9:07am Fri 31 Aug 12

V_is_back says...

Shared spaces don't have kerbs.

Marine Parade is not a shared space.

Southend council must either remove the kerbs and anything else that indicates a road, or they must stop calling it shared space.
Shared spaces don't have kerbs. Marine Parade is not a shared space. Southend council must either remove the kerbs and anything else that indicates a road, or they must stop calling it shared space. V_is_back
  • Score: 1

10:47pm Fri 31 Aug 12

Almeda11 says...

V_is_back wrote:
Almeda11 wrote:
V_is_back wrote:
Almeda11 wrote:
V_is_back wrote:
Almeda11 wrote:
reptile wrote: She should receive a commendation for riding on the road as I've never seen a cyclist that's not pushing past people on the footpath.
l am 65 and l ALWAYS cycle on the roads, and l do see others who do too, but many more cycle on the pavements, pavements which are wide enough in many places to support a cycle track by means of a white line painted either on the outside of that pavement or the inside of the road. There are many areas, particularly along the most direct route, the London Rd, from Highlands in Leigh to Southend Victoria Plaza, but our short sighted council lacks the will to do this, it`s done in most of the continent with great successs, just what is wrong with this country?
The absolute worst cycle facilities are those painted on pavements. People walk in them, they are too narrow, they have street furniture like lampposts and signs in them, you cannot proceed at a useful speed, you have to stop for every side turning.
l`m not talking about those little diagrams with " BIKE" plastered all over them am l??? l said a single white line, or other indicator, grey, whatever. THESE WORK WELL on the continent where l have travelled widely, particularly Germany and Holland, where they have more imagination and common sense. ln Germany for example, when these tracks cross side streets, in some areas they even have their own small set of traffic lights, other areas the pavement is divided, 50/50 equally for pedestrians and cyclists. There is no trouble, if a cyclist is coming up to a couple of pedestrians and needs to pass they just politely give a ring with their bell and people give them room to pass, there, unlike here unfortunately, they know the spirit of co-operation and it works well!
As I said, full of pedestrians and you have to stop at EVERY side turning. Utterly useless for any meaningful travel. The road is quicker and safer.
Yes, what you said earlier about street furniture is true enough, but to be honest they are not exactly on every street corner are they, just a very few here and there. Most streets here are not that different than on the continent, and they also are full of pedestrians. The difference between here and there is the approach. There, they do have the dividing line and it works! people walk on the pedestrian part, and cyclists keep to the cyclying part. Where the actual pavement is used by both, this is simply indicated by a sign every so often that shows a picture of a cyclist on one side and a pedestrian on the other, so that everyone knows it is for both, a bit like shared space, but strictly only for cyclists and pedestrians, this is the bit where, if 2 people are walking abreast and the cyclist wants to pass, they ring, and people move aside to let them, l`ve never seen any problems or unpleasantness, people just accept it and co operate with each other, l think we could learn some lessons here from that!! When the cycle path is separate from the pavement then obviously it`s easier as the bounderies are completely separate.
The road is safer. Pavements are for pedestrians, roads are for bicycles.
You don`t need to convince me! as l said in my first comment l always use the roads, mainly for speed, and l cycle fast, even at 65 and have been cycling since l was 7.
But, it obviously makes more sense to have a decent, working setup as they do on the continent. Even though l cycle on the roads, l feel safer on the continent because of their cycle tracks or shared pavements, and l have had a couple of idiot drivers in Southend who just opened their car doors without checking, l actually carry a camera with me, for evidence, if l am ever hit, it`s useful, but as l keep saying it works well on the continent, it could work well here, it is only the will by the council, who think they always know best, and are always right, even when they are not, and that is something l do not respect!
[quote][p][bold]V_is_back[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Almeda11[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]V_is_back[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Almeda11[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]V_is_back[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Almeda11[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]reptile[/bold] wrote: She should receive a commendation for riding on the road as I've never seen a cyclist that's not pushing past people on the footpath.[/p][/quote]l am 65 and l ALWAYS cycle on the roads, and l do see others who do too, but many more cycle on the pavements, pavements which are wide enough in many places to support a cycle track by means of a white line painted either on the outside of that pavement or the inside of the road. There are many areas, particularly along the most direct route, the London Rd, from Highlands in Leigh to Southend Victoria Plaza, but our short sighted council lacks the will to do this, it`s done in most of the continent with great successs, just what is wrong with this country?[/p][/quote]The absolute worst cycle facilities are those painted on pavements. People walk in them, they are too narrow, they have street furniture like lampposts and signs in them, you cannot proceed at a useful speed, you have to stop for every side turning.[/p][/quote]l`m not talking about those little diagrams with " BIKE" plastered all over them am l??? l said a single white line, or other indicator, grey, whatever. THESE WORK WELL on the continent where l have travelled widely, particularly Germany and Holland, where they have more imagination and common sense. ln Germany for example, when these tracks cross side streets, in some areas they even have their own small set of traffic lights, other areas the pavement is divided, 50/50 equally for pedestrians and cyclists. There is no trouble, if a cyclist is coming up to a couple of pedestrians and needs to pass they just politely give a ring with their bell and people give them room to pass, there, unlike here unfortunately, they know the spirit of co-operation and it works well![/p][/quote]As I said, full of pedestrians and you have to stop at EVERY side turning. Utterly useless for any meaningful travel. The road is quicker and safer.[/p][/quote]Yes, what you said earlier about street furniture is true enough, but to be honest they are not exactly on every street corner are they, just a very few here and there. Most streets here are not that different than on the continent, and they also are full of pedestrians. The difference between here and there is the approach. There, they do have the dividing line and it works! people walk on the pedestrian part, and cyclists keep to the cyclying part. Where the actual pavement is used by both, this is simply indicated by a sign every so often that shows a picture of a cyclist on one side and a pedestrian on the other, so that everyone knows it is for both, a bit like shared space, but strictly only for cyclists and pedestrians, this is the bit where, if 2 people are walking abreast and the cyclist wants to pass, they ring, and people move aside to let them, l`ve never seen any problems or unpleasantness, people just accept it and co operate with each other, l think we could learn some lessons here from that!! When the cycle path is separate from the pavement then obviously it`s easier as the bounderies are completely separate.[/p][/quote]The road is safer. Pavements are for pedestrians, roads are for bicycles.[/p][/quote]You don`t need to convince me! as l said in my first comment l always use the roads, mainly for speed, and l cycle fast, even at 65 and have been cycling since l was 7. But, it obviously makes more sense to have a decent, working setup as they do on the continent. Even though l cycle on the roads, l feel safer on the continent because of their cycle tracks or shared pavements, and l have had a couple of idiot drivers in Southend who just opened their car doors without checking, l actually carry a camera with me, for evidence, if l am ever hit, it`s useful, but as l keep saying it works well on the continent, it could work well here, it is only the will by the council, who think they always know best, and are always right, even when they are not, and that is something l do not respect! Almeda11
  • Score: 0

10:58pm Fri 31 Aug 12

Almeda11 says...

Almeda11 wrote:
V_is_back wrote:
Almeda11 wrote:
V_is_back wrote:
Almeda11 wrote:
V_is_back wrote:
Almeda11 wrote:
reptile wrote: She should receive a commendation for riding on the road as I've never seen a cyclist that's not pushing past people on the footpath.
l am 65 and l ALWAYS cycle on the roads, and l do see others who do too, but many more cycle on the pavements, pavements which are wide enough in many places to support a cycle track by means of a white line painted either on the outside of that pavement or the inside of the road. There are many areas, particularly along the most direct route, the London Rd, from Highlands in Leigh to Southend Victoria Plaza, but our short sighted council lacks the will to do this, it`s done in most of the continent with great successs, just what is wrong with this country?
The absolute worst cycle facilities are those painted on pavements. People walk in them, they are too narrow, they have street furniture like lampposts and signs in them, you cannot proceed at a useful speed, you have to stop for every side turning.
l`m not talking about those little diagrams with " BIKE" plastered all over them am l??? l said a single white line, or other indicator, grey, whatever. THESE WORK WELL on the continent where l have travelled widely, particularly Germany and Holland, where they have more imagination and common sense. ln Germany for example, when these tracks cross side streets, in some areas they even have their own small set of traffic lights, other areas the pavement is divided, 50/50 equally for pedestrians and cyclists. There is no trouble, if a cyclist is coming up to a couple of pedestrians and needs to pass they just politely give a ring with their bell and people give them room to pass, there, unlike here unfortunately, they know the spirit of co-operation and it works well!
As I said, full of pedestrians and you have to stop at EVERY side turning. Utterly useless for any meaningful travel. The road is quicker and safer.
Yes, what you said earlier about street furniture is true enough, but to be honest they are not exactly on every street corner are they, just a very few here and there. Most streets here are not that different than on the continent, and they also are full of pedestrians. The difference between here and there is the approach. There, they do have the dividing line and it works! people walk on the pedestrian part, and cyclists keep to the cyclying part. Where the actual pavement is used by both, this is simply indicated by a sign every so often that shows a picture of a cyclist on one side and a pedestrian on the other, so that everyone knows it is for both, a bit like shared space, but strictly only for cyclists and pedestrians, this is the bit where, if 2 people are walking abreast and the cyclist wants to pass, they ring, and people move aside to let them, l`ve never seen any problems or unpleasantness, people just accept it and co operate with each other, l think we could learn some lessons here from that!! When the cycle path is separate from the pavement then obviously it`s easier as the bounderies are completely separate.
The road is safer. Pavements are for pedestrians, roads are for bicycles.
You don`t need to convince me! as l said in my first comment l always use the roads, mainly for speed, and l cycle fast, even at 65 and have been cycling since l was 7. But, it obviously makes more sense to have a decent, working setup as they do on the continent. Even though l cycle on the roads, l feel safer on the continent because of their cycle tracks or shared pavements, and l have had a couple of idiot drivers in Southend who just opened their car doors without checking, l actually carry a camera with me, for evidence, if l am ever hit, it`s useful, but as l keep saying it works well on the continent, it could work well here, it is only the will by the council, who think they always know best, and are always right, even when they are not, and that is something l do not respect!
Ps, forgot to add that although l always cycle on the roads l definitely do not think they are safer, as you say! As l said l was twice almost hit by careless drivers who just didn`t check, this obviously would never happen on a pavement, or the buses that sometimes come just that little bit too close!
[quote][p][bold]Almeda11[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]V_is_back[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Almeda11[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]V_is_back[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Almeda11[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]V_is_back[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Almeda11[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]reptile[/bold] wrote: She should receive a commendation for riding on the road as I've never seen a cyclist that's not pushing past people on the footpath.[/p][/quote]l am 65 and l ALWAYS cycle on the roads, and l do see others who do too, but many more cycle on the pavements, pavements which are wide enough in many places to support a cycle track by means of a white line painted either on the outside of that pavement or the inside of the road. There are many areas, particularly along the most direct route, the London Rd, from Highlands in Leigh to Southend Victoria Plaza, but our short sighted council lacks the will to do this, it`s done in most of the continent with great successs, just what is wrong with this country?[/p][/quote]The absolute worst cycle facilities are those painted on pavements. People walk in them, they are too narrow, they have street furniture like lampposts and signs in them, you cannot proceed at a useful speed, you have to stop for every side turning.[/p][/quote]l`m not talking about those little diagrams with " BIKE" plastered all over them am l??? l said a single white line, or other indicator, grey, whatever. THESE WORK WELL on the continent where l have travelled widely, particularly Germany and Holland, where they have more imagination and common sense. ln Germany for example, when these tracks cross side streets, in some areas they even have their own small set of traffic lights, other areas the pavement is divided, 50/50 equally for pedestrians and cyclists. There is no trouble, if a cyclist is coming up to a couple of pedestrians and needs to pass they just politely give a ring with their bell and people give them room to pass, there, unlike here unfortunately, they know the spirit of co-operation and it works well![/p][/quote]As I said, full of pedestrians and you have to stop at EVERY side turning. Utterly useless for any meaningful travel. The road is quicker and safer.[/p][/quote]Yes, what you said earlier about street furniture is true enough, but to be honest they are not exactly on every street corner are they, just a very few here and there. Most streets here are not that different than on the continent, and they also are full of pedestrians. The difference between here and there is the approach. There, they do have the dividing line and it works! people walk on the pedestrian part, and cyclists keep to the cyclying part. Where the actual pavement is used by both, this is simply indicated by a sign every so often that shows a picture of a cyclist on one side and a pedestrian on the other, so that everyone knows it is for both, a bit like shared space, but strictly only for cyclists and pedestrians, this is the bit where, if 2 people are walking abreast and the cyclist wants to pass, they ring, and people move aside to let them, l`ve never seen any problems or unpleasantness, people just accept it and co operate with each other, l think we could learn some lessons here from that!! When the cycle path is separate from the pavement then obviously it`s easier as the bounderies are completely separate.[/p][/quote]The road is safer. Pavements are for pedestrians, roads are for bicycles.[/p][/quote]You don`t need to convince me! as l said in my first comment l always use the roads, mainly for speed, and l cycle fast, even at 65 and have been cycling since l was 7. But, it obviously makes more sense to have a decent, working setup as they do on the continent. Even though l cycle on the roads, l feel safer on the continent because of their cycle tracks or shared pavements, and l have had a couple of idiot drivers in Southend who just opened their car doors without checking, l actually carry a camera with me, for evidence, if l am ever hit, it`s useful, but as l keep saying it works well on the continent, it could work well here, it is only the will by the council, who think they always know best, and are always right, even when they are not, and that is something l do not respect![/p][/quote]Ps, forgot to add that although l always cycle on the roads l definitely do not think they are safer, as you say! As l said l was twice almost hit by careless drivers who just didn`t check, this obviously would never happen on a pavement, or the buses that sometimes come just that little bit too close! Almeda11
  • Score: 1

9:19am Sat 1 Sep 12

V_is_back says...

Almeda11 wrote:
Almeda11 wrote:
V_is_back wrote:
Almeda11 wrote:
V_is_back wrote:
Almeda11 wrote:
V_is_back wrote:
Almeda11 wrote:
reptile wrote: She should receive a commendation for riding on the road as I've never seen a cyclist that's not pushing past people on the footpath.
l am 65 and l ALWAYS cycle on the roads, and l do see others who do too, but many more cycle on the pavements, pavements which are wide enough in many places to support a cycle track by means of a white line painted either on the outside of that pavement or the inside of the road. There are many areas, particularly along the most direct route, the London Rd, from Highlands in Leigh to Southend Victoria Plaza, but our short sighted council lacks the will to do this, it`s done in most of the continent with great successs, just what is wrong with this country?
The absolute worst cycle facilities are those painted on pavements. People walk in them, they are too narrow, they have street furniture like lampposts and signs in them, you cannot proceed at a useful speed, you have to stop for every side turning.
l`m not talking about those little diagrams with " BIKE" plastered all over them am l??? l said a single white line, or other indicator, grey, whatever. THESE WORK WELL on the continent where l have travelled widely, particularly Germany and Holland, where they have more imagination and common sense. ln Germany for example, when these tracks cross side streets, in some areas they even have their own small set of traffic lights, other areas the pavement is divided, 50/50 equally for pedestrians and cyclists. There is no trouble, if a cyclist is coming up to a couple of pedestrians and needs to pass they just politely give a ring with their bell and people give them room to pass, there, unlike here unfortunately, they know the spirit of co-operation and it works well!
As I said, full of pedestrians and you have to stop at EVERY side turning. Utterly useless for any meaningful travel. The road is quicker and safer.
Yes, what you said earlier about street furniture is true enough, but to be honest they are not exactly on every street corner are they, just a very few here and there. Most streets here are not that different than on the continent, and they also are full of pedestrians. The difference between here and there is the approach. There, they do have the dividing line and it works! people walk on the pedestrian part, and cyclists keep to the cyclying part. Where the actual pavement is used by both, this is simply indicated by a sign every so often that shows a picture of a cyclist on one side and a pedestrian on the other, so that everyone knows it is for both, a bit like shared space, but strictly only for cyclists and pedestrians, this is the bit where, if 2 people are walking abreast and the cyclist wants to pass, they ring, and people move aside to let them, l`ve never seen any problems or unpleasantness, people just accept it and co operate with each other, l think we could learn some lessons here from that!! When the cycle path is separate from the pavement then obviously it`s easier as the bounderies are completely separate.
The road is safer. Pavements are for pedestrians, roads are for bicycles.
You don`t need to convince me! as l said in my first comment l always use the roads, mainly for speed, and l cycle fast, even at 65 and have been cycling since l was 7. But, it obviously makes more sense to have a decent, working setup as they do on the continent. Even though l cycle on the roads, l feel safer on the continent because of their cycle tracks or shared pavements, and l have had a couple of idiot drivers in Southend who just opened their car doors without checking, l actually carry a camera with me, for evidence, if l am ever hit, it`s useful, but as l keep saying it works well on the continent, it could work well here, it is only the will by the council, who think they always know best, and are always right, even when they are not, and that is something l do not respect!
Ps, forgot to add that although l always cycle on the roads l definitely do not think they are safer, as you say! As l said l was twice almost hit by careless drivers who just didn`t check, this obviously would never happen on a pavement, or the buses that sometimes come just that little bit too close!
If a bus passes too close then take the registration and complain to the company concerned.
Even better get yourself a helmet camera and save the video of close passes.
[quote][p][bold]Almeda11[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Almeda11[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]V_is_back[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Almeda11[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]V_is_back[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Almeda11[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]V_is_back[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Almeda11[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]reptile[/bold] wrote: She should receive a commendation for riding on the road as I've never seen a cyclist that's not pushing past people on the footpath.[/p][/quote]l am 65 and l ALWAYS cycle on the roads, and l do see others who do too, but many more cycle on the pavements, pavements which are wide enough in many places to support a cycle track by means of a white line painted either on the outside of that pavement or the inside of the road. There are many areas, particularly along the most direct route, the London Rd, from Highlands in Leigh to Southend Victoria Plaza, but our short sighted council lacks the will to do this, it`s done in most of the continent with great successs, just what is wrong with this country?[/p][/quote]The absolute worst cycle facilities are those painted on pavements. People walk in them, they are too narrow, they have street furniture like lampposts and signs in them, you cannot proceed at a useful speed, you have to stop for every side turning.[/p][/quote]l`m not talking about those little diagrams with " BIKE" plastered all over them am l??? l said a single white line, or other indicator, grey, whatever. THESE WORK WELL on the continent where l have travelled widely, particularly Germany and Holland, where they have more imagination and common sense. ln Germany for example, when these tracks cross side streets, in some areas they even have their own small set of traffic lights, other areas the pavement is divided, 50/50 equally for pedestrians and cyclists. There is no trouble, if a cyclist is coming up to a couple of pedestrians and needs to pass they just politely give a ring with their bell and people give them room to pass, there, unlike here unfortunately, they know the spirit of co-operation and it works well![/p][/quote]As I said, full of pedestrians and you have to stop at EVERY side turning. Utterly useless for any meaningful travel. The road is quicker and safer.[/p][/quote]Yes, what you said earlier about street furniture is true enough, but to be honest they are not exactly on every street corner are they, just a very few here and there. Most streets here are not that different than on the continent, and they also are full of pedestrians. The difference between here and there is the approach. There, they do have the dividing line and it works! people walk on the pedestrian part, and cyclists keep to the cyclying part. Where the actual pavement is used by both, this is simply indicated by a sign every so often that shows a picture of a cyclist on one side and a pedestrian on the other, so that everyone knows it is for both, a bit like shared space, but strictly only for cyclists and pedestrians, this is the bit where, if 2 people are walking abreast and the cyclist wants to pass, they ring, and people move aside to let them, l`ve never seen any problems or unpleasantness, people just accept it and co operate with each other, l think we could learn some lessons here from that!! When the cycle path is separate from the pavement then obviously it`s easier as the bounderies are completely separate.[/p][/quote]The road is safer. Pavements are for pedestrians, roads are for bicycles.[/p][/quote]You don`t need to convince me! as l said in my first comment l always use the roads, mainly for speed, and l cycle fast, even at 65 and have been cycling since l was 7. But, it obviously makes more sense to have a decent, working setup as they do on the continent. Even though l cycle on the roads, l feel safer on the continent because of their cycle tracks or shared pavements, and l have had a couple of idiot drivers in Southend who just opened their car doors without checking, l actually carry a camera with me, for evidence, if l am ever hit, it`s useful, but as l keep saying it works well on the continent, it could work well here, it is only the will by the council, who think they always know best, and are always right, even when they are not, and that is something l do not respect![/p][/quote]Ps, forgot to add that although l always cycle on the roads l definitely do not think they are safer, as you say! As l said l was twice almost hit by careless drivers who just didn`t check, this obviously would never happen on a pavement, or the buses that sometimes come just that little bit too close![/p][/quote]If a bus passes too close then take the registration and complain to the company concerned. Even better get yourself a helmet camera and save the video of close passes. V_is_back
  • Score: 0

9:22am Sat 1 Sep 12

V_is_back says...

Ps. There is no such thing as a dangerous road. There is just dangerous driving.
Ps. There is no such thing as a dangerous road. There is just dangerous driving. V_is_back
  • Score: 0

10:48am Sat 1 Sep 12

QuiteBored says...

Dippy Cow.
Dippy Cow. QuiteBored
  • Score: 0

2:32pm Sat 1 Sep 12

Cor Blimey says...

Typical case of where there is blame there is a claim. This is a prime example of why council rates increase year on year - its the tax payer that will be paying for this dosy cows accident !!!!!!!!!!! - maybe she should go to Specsavers
Typical case of where there is blame there is a claim. This is a prime example of why council rates increase year on year - its the tax payer that will be paying for this dosy cows accident !!!!!!!!!!! - maybe she should go to Specsavers Cor Blimey
  • Score: 1

2:36pm Sat 1 Sep 12

Cor Blimey says...

I expect the silly cow is also sueing the manufacturers of her footwear for not protecting her ankle.
I expect the silly cow is also sueing the manufacturers of her footwear for not protecting her ankle. Cor Blimey
  • Score: 1

10:01pm Sat 1 Sep 12

Last Poster says...

I have to say that I like the shared space idea. I now drive at around 15 mph along the 20mph stretch and, if I see someone waiting to cross, I will stop and wait for them to cross. If the opposing traffic takes forever to stop well, perhaps next time they will be behind me. whatever, I get nice smiles in return for my consideration. Sadly, no one behind me seems to get wound up. Oh well, can't have it all ways I suppose, but the best part of driving for me, as an irate pensioner who "Does not believe it!" is the wind up of the younger generations!
As for that woman on a bike, I might sue her for wasting space in my Echo!
I have to say that I like the shared space idea. I now drive at around 15 mph along the 20mph stretch and, if I see someone waiting to cross, I will stop and wait for them to cross. If the opposing traffic takes forever to stop well, perhaps next time they will be behind me. whatever, I get nice smiles in return for my consideration. Sadly, no one behind me seems to get wound up. Oh well, can't have it all ways I suppose, but the best part of driving for me, as an irate pensioner who "Does not believe it!" is the wind up of the younger generations! As for that woman on a bike, I might sue her for wasting space in my Echo! Last Poster
  • Score: 1

8:42am Sun 2 Sep 12

Laong Laan says...

Absolutely ridiculous! Didn't realise where the kerb was? Does she know anything about road layouts? Just because there is a shared area does not mean the kerb may be in the middle of the road! Get real. Plus you don't "pull over to let cars behind you through" while you are in the middle of the road. If you did that then you would be riding on to the pavement which is illegal & would most likely cause your wheel to scuff & slide off the kerb causing an accident (which is probably what happened). So her maneuver in the first place was wrong & if she did have an accident as a result of it then sorry. But don't blame the council.
Absolutely ridiculous! Didn't realise where the kerb was? Does she know anything about road layouts? Just because there is a shared area does not mean the kerb may be in the middle of the road! Get real. Plus you don't "pull over to let cars behind you through" while you are in the middle of the road. If you did that then you would be riding on to the pavement which is illegal & would most likely cause your wheel to scuff & slide off the kerb causing an accident (which is probably what happened). So her maneuver in the first place was wrong & if she did have an accident as a result of it then sorry. But don't blame the council. Laong Laan
  • Score: 0

10:25pm Sun 2 Sep 12

Almeda11 says...

V_is_back wrote:
Almeda11 wrote:
Almeda11 wrote:
V_is_back wrote:
Almeda11 wrote:
V_is_back wrote:
Almeda11 wrote:
V_is_back wrote:
Almeda11 wrote:
reptile wrote: She should receive a commendation for riding on the road as I've never seen a cyclist that's not pushing past people on the footpath.
l am 65 and l ALWAYS cycle on the roads, and l do see others who do too, but many more cycle on the pavements, pavements which are wide enough in many places to support a cycle track by means of a white line painted either on the outside of that pavement or the inside of the road. There are many areas, particularly along the most direct route, the London Rd, from Highlands in Leigh to Southend Victoria Plaza, but our short sighted council lacks the will to do this, it`s done in most of the continent with great successs, just what is wrong with this country?
The absolute worst cycle facilities are those painted on pavements. People walk in them, they are too narrow, they have street furniture like lampposts and signs in them, you cannot proceed at a useful speed, you have to stop for every side turning.
l`m not talking about those little diagrams with " BIKE" plastered all over them am l??? l said a single white line, or other indicator, grey, whatever. THESE WORK WELL on the continent where l have travelled widely, particularly Germany and Holland, where they have more imagination and common sense. ln Germany for example, when these tracks cross side streets, in some areas they even have their own small set of traffic lights, other areas the pavement is divided, 50/50 equally for pedestrians and cyclists. There is no trouble, if a cyclist is coming up to a couple of pedestrians and needs to pass they just politely give a ring with their bell and people give them room to pass, there, unlike here unfortunately, they know the spirit of co-operation and it works well!
As I said, full of pedestrians and you have to stop at EVERY side turning. Utterly useless for any meaningful travel. The road is quicker and safer.
Yes, what you said earlier about street furniture is true enough, but to be honest they are not exactly on every street corner are they, just a very few here and there. Most streets here are not that different than on the continent, and they also are full of pedestrians. The difference between here and there is the approach. There, they do have the dividing line and it works! people walk on the pedestrian part, and cyclists keep to the cyclying part. Where the actual pavement is used by both, this is simply indicated by a sign every so often that shows a picture of a cyclist on one side and a pedestrian on the other, so that everyone knows it is for both, a bit like shared space, but strictly only for cyclists and pedestrians, this is the bit where, if 2 people are walking abreast and the cyclist wants to pass, they ring, and people move aside to let them, l`ve never seen any problems or unpleasantness, people just accept it and co operate with each other, l think we could learn some lessons here from that!! When the cycle path is separate from the pavement then obviously it`s easier as the bounderies are completely separate.
The road is safer. Pavements are for pedestrians, roads are for bicycles.
You don`t need to convince me! as l said in my first comment l always use the roads, mainly for speed, and l cycle fast, even at 65 and have been cycling since l was 7. But, it obviously makes more sense to have a decent, working setup as they do on the continent. Even though l cycle on the roads, l feel safer on the continent because of their cycle tracks or shared pavements, and l have had a couple of idiot drivers in Southend who just opened their car doors without checking, l actually carry a camera with me, for evidence, if l am ever hit, it`s useful, but as l keep saying it works well on the continent, it could work well here, it is only the will by the council, who think they always know best, and are always right, even when they are not, and that is something l do not respect!
Ps, forgot to add that although l always cycle on the roads l definitely do not think they are safer, as you say! As l said l was twice almost hit by careless drivers who just didn`t check, this obviously would never happen on a pavement, or the buses that sometimes come just that little bit too close!
If a bus passes too close then take the registration and complain to the company concerned. Even better get yourself a helmet camera and save the video of close passes.
lt`s a good suggestion about the registration number, but often they are quickly past me, and l am cyclying, would have to stop, get out my notebook and pen, and by that time would l have remembered the whole number, on a busy, noisy road too, but l will certainlty try, that`s what l`m good at, trying, and l never give up either!
Re, the helmet with camera, l like that one, and will definately make enquiries, a good idea! thanks!
[quote][p][bold]V_is_back[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Almeda11[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Almeda11[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]V_is_back[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Almeda11[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]V_is_back[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Almeda11[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]V_is_back[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Almeda11[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]reptile[/bold] wrote: She should receive a commendation for riding on the road as I've never seen a cyclist that's not pushing past people on the footpath.[/p][/quote]l am 65 and l ALWAYS cycle on the roads, and l do see others who do too, but many more cycle on the pavements, pavements which are wide enough in many places to support a cycle track by means of a white line painted either on the outside of that pavement or the inside of the road. There are many areas, particularly along the most direct route, the London Rd, from Highlands in Leigh to Southend Victoria Plaza, but our short sighted council lacks the will to do this, it`s done in most of the continent with great successs, just what is wrong with this country?[/p][/quote]The absolute worst cycle facilities are those painted on pavements. People walk in them, they are too narrow, they have street furniture like lampposts and signs in them, you cannot proceed at a useful speed, you have to stop for every side turning.[/p][/quote]l`m not talking about those little diagrams with " BIKE" plastered all over them am l??? l said a single white line, or other indicator, grey, whatever. THESE WORK WELL on the continent where l have travelled widely, particularly Germany and Holland, where they have more imagination and common sense. ln Germany for example, when these tracks cross side streets, in some areas they even have their own small set of traffic lights, other areas the pavement is divided, 50/50 equally for pedestrians and cyclists. There is no trouble, if a cyclist is coming up to a couple of pedestrians and needs to pass they just politely give a ring with their bell and people give them room to pass, there, unlike here unfortunately, they know the spirit of co-operation and it works well![/p][/quote]As I said, full of pedestrians and you have to stop at EVERY side turning. Utterly useless for any meaningful travel. The road is quicker and safer.[/p][/quote]Yes, what you said earlier about street furniture is true enough, but to be honest they are not exactly on every street corner are they, just a very few here and there. Most streets here are not that different than on the continent, and they also are full of pedestrians. The difference between here and there is the approach. There, they do have the dividing line and it works! people walk on the pedestrian part, and cyclists keep to the cyclying part. Where the actual pavement is used by both, this is simply indicated by a sign every so often that shows a picture of a cyclist on one side and a pedestrian on the other, so that everyone knows it is for both, a bit like shared space, but strictly only for cyclists and pedestrians, this is the bit where, if 2 people are walking abreast and the cyclist wants to pass, they ring, and people move aside to let them, l`ve never seen any problems or unpleasantness, people just accept it and co operate with each other, l think we could learn some lessons here from that!! When the cycle path is separate from the pavement then obviously it`s easier as the bounderies are completely separate.[/p][/quote]The road is safer. Pavements are for pedestrians, roads are for bicycles.[/p][/quote]You don`t need to convince me! as l said in my first comment l always use the roads, mainly for speed, and l cycle fast, even at 65 and have been cycling since l was 7. But, it obviously makes more sense to have a decent, working setup as they do on the continent. Even though l cycle on the roads, l feel safer on the continent because of their cycle tracks or shared pavements, and l have had a couple of idiot drivers in Southend who just opened their car doors without checking, l actually carry a camera with me, for evidence, if l am ever hit, it`s useful, but as l keep saying it works well on the continent, it could work well here, it is only the will by the council, who think they always know best, and are always right, even when they are not, and that is something l do not respect![/p][/quote]Ps, forgot to add that although l always cycle on the roads l definitely do not think they are safer, as you say! As l said l was twice almost hit by careless drivers who just didn`t check, this obviously would never happen on a pavement, or the buses that sometimes come just that little bit too close![/p][/quote]If a bus passes too close then take the registration and complain to the company concerned. Even better get yourself a helmet camera and save the video of close passes.[/p][/quote]lt`s a good suggestion about the registration number, but often they are quickly past me, and l am cyclying, would have to stop, get out my notebook and pen, and by that time would l have remembered the whole number, on a busy, noisy road too, but l will certainlty try, that`s what l`m good at, trying, and l never give up either! Re, the helmet with camera, l like that one, and will definately make enquiries, a good idea! thanks! Almeda11
  • Score: 0

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