Cyclist to sue after ‘shared space’ fall on Southend seafront (From Echo)

Richy don't shine shoes no more wrote:
What about all the people hit by cyclists? Are they suing too

Richy don't shine shoes no more wrote:
What about all the people hit by cyclists? Are they suing too

Richy don't shine shoes no more wrote:
What about all the people hit by cyclists? Are they suing too

r6keith wrote:
V is back said . I hope she does sue Southend council and wins. Perhaps then Southend council will wake up and realise their seafront is not safe . I all very well suing but the compensation comes from the insurance company , who in turn put up the premiums so the council then put up the rates or cut further services to cover these costs. In the end we all pay if she gets a payout, like all accident claims the money eventually comes out of our pockets !

PJR-121 wrote:
Tripped up a kerb and now wants to sue - does she not have eyes?

PJR-121 wrote:
Tripped up a kerb and now wants to sue - does she not have eyes?

reptile wrote:
She should receive a commendation for riding on the road as I've never seen a cyclist that's not pushing past people on the footpath.

V_is_back wrote:
She added: “I just didn’t realise the kerb was there.Thankfully, we both wear helmets and the police were nearby and able to call the ambulance quickly.”

Helmets don't work, as evidenced by her dislocated ankle.

Alice in Her Own Land :P wrote:

reptile wrote:
She should receive a commendation for riding on the road as I've never seen a cyclist that's not pushing past people on the footpath.

Totally agree. But why wasn't she using the cycle path - designed FOR CYCLISTS?

PJR-121 wrote:
I thought the shared bit was the bit without kerbs anyway - with the big balls and the lighter coloured paving - so she wasn't even in it if she's hit the kerb!

rjsizzler wrote:
Everyone is missing a big point here - she is from Brentwood which has had a shared space throughout it's High Street since before Southend! Same sloping kerbs etc. She should be very familiar with it!

rjsizzler wrote:
Everyone is missing a big point here - she is from Brentwood which has had a shared space throughout it's High Street since before Southend! Same sloping kerbs etc. She should be very familiar with it!

j-w wrote:

rjsizzler wrote: Everyone is missing a big point here - she is from Brentwood which has had a shared space throughout it's High Street since before Southend! Same sloping kerbs etc. She should be very familiar with it!

smells of skipp !

Keptquiettillnow wrote:
As I understand shared space it does away with the need for signs telling everyone what and where they should be, If you put a load of signs and white lines in then you might as well call it a road which is what the council was trying not to do.

SoTyred wrote:
As someone who both drives and cycles regularly along the seafront, I can understand the difficulty in knowing where the boundary is between the road and pavement. A white line along the edge of the road would solve that and, in my opinion, make the area safer for everyone. Also I really don’t think it is clear what the shared zone actually means? Do you?

But would I sue if I hit a kerb when cycling there? No, of course not.

In any case, far more dangerous are the idiots who get out of their cars, step into the cycling lane or simply just stand in it in the area between Three Shells Beach and the casino. I have lost count how many times I have nearly hit someone. And if I do, I assume it would be me who ends up getting sued.

V_is_back wrote:

SoTyred wrote:
As someone who both drives and cycles regularly along the seafront, I can understand the difficulty in knowing where the boundary is between the road and pavement. A white line along the edge of the road would solve that and, in my opinion, make the area safer for everyone. Also I really don’t think it is clear what the shared zone actually means? Do you?

But would I sue if I hit a kerb when cycling there? No, of course not.

In any case, far more dangerous are the idiots who get out of their cars, step into the cycling lane or simply just stand in it in the area between Three Shells Beach and the casino. I have lost count how many times I have nearly hit someone. And if I do, I assume it would be me who ends up getting sued.

White lines don't solve anything. Southend council promised white lines, double yellow lines and a two-inch kerb would stop people driving and parking in the Western Esplanade cycle path. They haven't. Go along there any Friday or Saturday night and the cycle path will be full of parked cars.

reptile wrote:
She should receive a commendation for riding on the road as I've never seen a cyclist that's not pushing past people on the footpath.

Almeda11 wrote:

reptile wrote:
She should receive a commendation for riding on the road as I've never seen a cyclist that's not pushing past people on the footpath.

l am 65 and l ALWAYS cycle on the roads, and l do see others who do too, but many more cycle on the pavements, pavements which are wide enough in many places to support a cycle track by means of a white line painted either on the outside of that pavement or the inside of the road.
There are many areas, particularly along the most direct route, the London Rd, from Highlands in Leigh to Southend Victoria Plaza, but our short sighted council lacks the will to do this, it`s done in most of the continent with great successs, just what is wrong with this country?

V_is_back wrote:

SoTyred wrote: As someone who both drives and cycles regularly along the seafront, I can understand the difficulty in knowing where the boundary is between the road and pavement. A white line along the edge of the road would solve that and, in my opinion, make the area safer for everyone. Also I really don’t think it is clear what the shared zone actually means? Do you? But would I sue if I hit a kerb when cycling there? No, of course not. In any case, far more dangerous are the idiots who get out of their cars, step into the cycling lane or simply just stand in it in the area between Three Shells Beach and the casino. I have lost count how many times I have nearly hit someone. And if I do, I assume it would be me who ends up getting sued.

White lines don't solve anything. Southend council promised white lines, double yellow lines and a two-inch kerb would stop people driving and parking in the Western Esplanade cycle path. They haven't. Go along there any Friday or Saturday night and the cycle path will be full of parked cars.

Nebs wrote:
If this womans eyesight is so bad that she cannot see a kerb then it must bring into doubt her ability to be allowed to ride a bicycle on a public highway. Or drive a car. A report to the DVLA would seem to be in order before someone else gets hurt.

V_is_back wrote:

Almeda11 wrote:

reptile wrote: She should receive a commendation for riding on the road as I've never seen a cyclist that's not pushing past people on the footpath.

l am 65 and l ALWAYS cycle on the roads, and l do see others who do too, but many more cycle on the pavements, pavements which are wide enough in many places to support a cycle track by means of a white line painted either on the outside of that pavement or the inside of the road. There are many areas, particularly along the most direct route, the London Rd, from Highlands in Leigh to Southend Victoria Plaza, but our short sighted council lacks the will to do this, it`s done in most of the continent with great successs, just what is wrong with this country?

The absolute worst cycle facilities are those painted on pavements. People walk in them, they are too narrow, they have street furniture like lampposts and signs in them, you cannot proceed at a useful speed, you have to stop for every side turning.

Almeda11 wrote:

V_is_back wrote:

Almeda11 wrote:

reptile wrote: She should receive a commendation for riding on the road as I've never seen a cyclist that's not pushing past people on the footpath.

l am 65 and l ALWAYS cycle on the roads, and l do see others who do too, but many more cycle on the pavements, pavements which are wide enough in many places to support a cycle track by means of a white line painted either on the outside of that pavement or the inside of the road. There are many areas, particularly along the most direct route, the London Rd, from Highlands in Leigh to Southend Victoria Plaza, but our short sighted council lacks the will to do this, it`s done in most of the continent with great successs, just what is wrong with this country?

The absolute worst cycle facilities are those painted on pavements. People walk in them, they are too narrow, they have street furniture like lampposts and signs in them, you cannot proceed at a useful speed, you have to stop for every side turning.

l`m not talking about those little diagrams with " BIKE" plastered all over them am l???
l said a single white line, or other indicator, grey, whatever.
THESE WORK WELL on the continent where l have travelled widely, particularly Germany and Holland, where they have more imagination and common sense.
ln Germany for example, when these tracks cross side streets, in some areas they even have their own small set of traffic lights, other areas the pavement is divided, 50/50 equally for pedestrians and cyclists.
There is no trouble, if a cyclist is coming up to a couple of pedestrians and needs to pass they just politely give a ring with their bell and people give them room to pass, there, unlike here unfortunately, they know the spirit of co-operation and it works well!

V_is_back wrote:

Almeda11 wrote:

V_is_back wrote:

Almeda11 wrote:

reptile wrote: She should receive a commendation for riding on the road as I've never seen a cyclist that's not pushing past people on the footpath.

l am 65 and l ALWAYS cycle on the roads, and l do see others who do too, but many more cycle on the pavements, pavements which are wide enough in many places to support a cycle track by means of a white line painted either on the outside of that pavement or the inside of the road. There are many areas, particularly along the most direct route, the London Rd, from Highlands in Leigh to Southend Victoria Plaza, but our short sighted council lacks the will to do this, it`s done in most of the continent with great successs, just what is wrong with this country?

The absolute worst cycle facilities are those painted on pavements. People walk in them, they are too narrow, they have street furniture like lampposts and signs in them, you cannot proceed at a useful speed, you have to stop for every side turning.

l`m not talking about those little diagrams with " BIKE" plastered all over them am l??? l said a single white line, or other indicator, grey, whatever. THESE WORK WELL on the continent where l have travelled widely, particularly Germany and Holland, where they have more imagination and common sense. ln Germany for example, when these tracks cross side streets, in some areas they even have their own small set of traffic lights, other areas the pavement is divided, 50/50 equally for pedestrians and cyclists. There is no trouble, if a cyclist is coming up to a couple of pedestrians and needs to pass they just politely give a ring with their bell and people give them room to pass, there, unlike here unfortunately, they know the spirit of co-operation and it works well!

As I said, full of pedestrians and you have to stop at EVERY side turning. Utterly useless for any meaningful travel. The road is quicker and safer.

Almeda11 wrote:

V_is_back wrote:

Almeda11 wrote:

V_is_back wrote:

Almeda11 wrote:

reptile wrote: She should receive a commendation for riding on the road as I've never seen a cyclist that's not pushing past people on the footpath.

l am 65 and l ALWAYS cycle on the roads, and l do see others who do too, but many more cycle on the pavements, pavements which are wide enough in many places to support a cycle track by means of a white line painted either on the outside of that pavement or the inside of the road. There are many areas, particularly along the most direct route, the London Rd, from Highlands in Leigh to Southend Victoria Plaza, but our short sighted council lacks the will to do this, it`s done in most of the continent with great successs, just what is wrong with this country?

The absolute worst cycle facilities are those painted on pavements. People walk in them, they are too narrow, they have street furniture like lampposts and signs in them, you cannot proceed at a useful speed, you have to stop for every side turning.

l`m not talking about those little diagrams with " BIKE" plastered all over them am l??? l said a single white line, or other indicator, grey, whatever. THESE WORK WELL on the continent where l have travelled widely, particularly Germany and Holland, where they have more imagination and common sense. ln Germany for example, when these tracks cross side streets, in some areas they even have their own small set of traffic lights, other areas the pavement is divided, 50/50 equally for pedestrians and cyclists. There is no trouble, if a cyclist is coming up to a couple of pedestrians and needs to pass they just politely give a ring with their bell and people give them room to pass, there, unlike here unfortunately, they know the spirit of co-operation and it works well!

As I said, full of pedestrians and you have to stop at EVERY side turning. Utterly useless for any meaningful travel. The road is quicker and safer.

Yes, what you said earlier about street furniture is true enough, but to be honest they are not exactly on every street corner are they, just a very few here and there. Most streets here are not that different than on the continent, and they also are full of pedestrians.
The difference between here and there is the approach.
There, they do have the dividing line and it works! people walk on the pedestrian part, and cyclists keep to the cyclying part.
Where the actual pavement is used by both, this is simply indicated by a sign every so often that shows a picture of a cyclist on one side and a pedestrian on the other, so that everyone knows it is for both, a bit like shared space, but strictly only for cyclists and pedestrians, this is the bit where, if 2 people are walking abreast and the cyclist wants to pass, they ring, and people move aside to let them, l`ve never seen any problems or unpleasantness, people just accept it and co operate with each other, l think we could learn some lessons here from that!!

When the cycle path is separate from the pavement then obviously it`s easier as the bounderies are completely separate.

V_is_back wrote:

Nebs wrote:
If this womans eyesight is so bad that she cannot see a kerb then it must bring into doubt her ability to be allowed to ride a bicycle on a public highway. Or drive a car. A report to the DVLA would seem to be in order before someone else gets hurt.

There's a six inch step in this picture. Can you see it?

http://bit.ly/NW5rNu

Richy don't shine shoes no more wrote:
What about all the people hit by cyclists? Are they suing too

Nebs wrote:

V_is_back wrote:

Nebs wrote:
If this womans eyesight is so bad that she cannot see a kerb then it must bring into doubt her ability to be allowed to ride a bicycle on a public highway. Or drive a car. A report to the DVLA would seem to be in order before someone else gets hurt.

There's a six inch step in this picture. Can you see it?

http://bit.ly/NW5rNu

By the shadow of the cyclists shoulders, looks obvious to me.

tatersalad wrote:

Richy don't shine shoes no more wrote:
What about all the people hit by cyclists? Are they suing too

I agree, all road and pavement users including bikes and disability scooters should have insurance too.

V_is_back wrote:

Nebs wrote:

V_is_back wrote:

Nebs wrote:
If this womans eyesight is so bad that she cannot see a kerb then it must bring into doubt her ability to be allowed to ride a bicycle on a public highway. Or drive a car. A report to the DVLA would seem to be in order before someone else gets hurt.

There's a six inch step in this picture. Can you see it?

http://bit.ly/NW5rNu

By the shadow of the cyclists shoulders, looks obvious to me.

The fact you needed to look for the person's shadow rather proves the point that the step itself is not visible. Thank you.

dotdot wrote:
I cycle here regulary and totally agree with the lady - the kerbs are invisible. Parts of the kerbs are sloped and parts are not. I've almost fallen off my bike here too. It is so dangerous and something really needs to be done.

V_is_back wrote:

Almeda11 wrote:

V_is_back wrote:

Almeda11 wrote:

V_is_back wrote:

Almeda11 wrote:

reptile wrote: She should receive a commendation for riding on the road as I've never seen a cyclist that's not pushing past people on the footpath.

l am 65 and l ALWAYS cycle on the roads, and l do see others who do too, but many more cycle on the pavements, pavements which are wide enough in many places to support a cycle track by means of a white line painted either on the outside of that pavement or the inside of the road. There are many areas, particularly along the most direct route, the London Rd, from Highlands in Leigh to Southend Victoria Plaza, but our short sighted council lacks the will to do this, it`s done in most of the continent with great successs, just what is wrong with this country?

The absolute worst cycle facilities are those painted on pavements. People walk in them, they are too narrow, they have street furniture like lampposts and signs in them, you cannot proceed at a useful speed, you have to stop for every side turning.

l`m not talking about those little diagrams with " BIKE" plastered all over them am l??? l said a single white line, or other indicator, grey, whatever. THESE WORK WELL on the continent where l have travelled widely, particularly Germany and Holland, where they have more imagination and common sense. ln Germany for example, when these tracks cross side streets, in some areas they even have their own small set of traffic lights, other areas the pavement is divided, 50/50 equally for pedestrians and cyclists. There is no trouble, if a cyclist is coming up to a couple of pedestrians and needs to pass they just politely give a ring with their bell and people give them room to pass, there, unlike here unfortunately, they know the spirit of co-operation and it works well!

As I said, full of pedestrians and you have to stop at EVERY side turning. Utterly useless for any meaningful travel. The road is quicker and safer.

Yes, what you said earlier about street furniture is true enough, but to be honest they are not exactly on every street corner are they, just a very few here and there. Most streets here are not that different than on the continent, and they also are full of pedestrians. The difference between here and there is the approach. There, they do have the dividing line and it works! people walk on the pedestrian part, and cyclists keep to the cyclying part. Where the actual pavement is used by both, this is simply indicated by a sign every so often that shows a picture of a cyclist on one side and a pedestrian on the other, so that everyone knows it is for both, a bit like shared space, but strictly only for cyclists and pedestrians, this is the bit where, if 2 people are walking abreast and the cyclist wants to pass, they ring, and people move aside to let them, l`ve never seen any problems or unpleasantness, people just accept it and co operate with each other, l think we could learn some lessons here from that!! When the cycle path is separate from the pavement then obviously it`s easier as the bounderies are completely separate.

The road is safer. Pavements are for pedestrians, roads are for bicycles.

Almeda11 wrote:

V_is_back wrote:

Almeda11 wrote:

V_is_back wrote:

Almeda11 wrote:

V_is_back wrote:

Almeda11 wrote:

reptile wrote: She should receive a commendation for riding on the road as I've never seen a cyclist that's not pushing past people on the footpath.

l am 65 and l ALWAYS cycle on the roads, and l do see others who do too, but many more cycle on the pavements, pavements which are wide enough in many places to support a cycle track by means of a white line painted either on the outside of that pavement or the inside of the road. There are many areas, particularly along the most direct route, the London Rd, from Highlands in Leigh to Southend Victoria Plaza, but our short sighted council lacks the will to do this, it`s done in most of the continent with great successs, just what is wrong with this country?

The absolute worst cycle facilities are those painted on pavements. People walk in them, they are too narrow, they have street furniture like lampposts and signs in them, you cannot proceed at a useful speed, you have to stop for every side turning.

l`m not talking about those little diagrams with " BIKE" plastered all over them am l??? l said a single white line, or other indicator, grey, whatever. THESE WORK WELL on the continent where l have travelled widely, particularly Germany and Holland, where they have more imagination and common sense. ln Germany for example, when these tracks cross side streets, in some areas they even have their own small set of traffic lights, other areas the pavement is divided, 50/50 equally for pedestrians and cyclists. There is no trouble, if a cyclist is coming up to a couple of pedestrians and needs to pass they just politely give a ring with their bell and people give them room to pass, there, unlike here unfortunately, they know the spirit of co-operation and it works well!

As I said, full of pedestrians and you have to stop at EVERY side turning. Utterly useless for any meaningful travel. The road is quicker and safer.

Yes, what you said earlier about street furniture is true enough, but to be honest they are not exactly on every street corner are they, just a very few here and there. Most streets here are not that different than on the continent, and they also are full of pedestrians. The difference between here and there is the approach. There, they do have the dividing line and it works! people walk on the pedestrian part, and cyclists keep to the cyclying part. Where the actual pavement is used by both, this is simply indicated by a sign every so often that shows a picture of a cyclist on one side and a pedestrian on the other, so that everyone knows it is for both, a bit like shared space, but strictly only for cyclists and pedestrians, this is the bit where, if 2 people are walking abreast and the cyclist wants to pass, they ring, and people move aside to let them, l`ve never seen any problems or unpleasantness, people just accept it and co operate with each other, l think we could learn some lessons here from that!! When the cycle path is separate from the pavement then obviously it`s easier as the bounderies are completely separate.

The road is safer. Pavements are for pedestrians, roads are for bicycles.

You don`t need to convince me! as l said in my first comment l always use the roads, mainly for speed, and l cycle fast, even at 65 and have been cycling since l was 7. But, it obviously makes more sense to have a decent, working setup as they do on the continent. Even though l cycle on the roads, l feel safer on the continent because of their cycle tracks or shared pavements, and l have had a couple of idiot drivers in Southend who just opened their car doors without checking, l actually carry a camera with me, for evidence, if l am ever hit, it`s useful, but as l keep saying it works well on the continent, it could work well here, it is only the will by the council, who think they always know best, and are always right, even when they are not, and that is something l do not respect!

Almeda11 wrote:

Almeda11 wrote:

V_is_back wrote:

Almeda11 wrote:

V_is_back wrote:

Almeda11 wrote:

V_is_back wrote:

Almeda11 wrote:

reptile wrote: She should receive a commendation for riding on the road as I've never seen a cyclist that's not pushing past people on the footpath.

l am 65 and l ALWAYS cycle on the roads, and l do see others who do too, but many more cycle on the pavements, pavements which are wide enough in many places to support a cycle track by means of a white line painted either on the outside of that pavement or the inside of the road. There are many areas, particularly along the most direct route, the London Rd, from Highlands in Leigh to Southend Victoria Plaza, but our short sighted council lacks the will to do this, it`s done in most of the continent with great successs, just what is wrong with this country?

The absolute worst cycle facilities are those painted on pavements. People walk in them, they are too narrow, they have street furniture like lampposts and signs in them, you cannot proceed at a useful speed, you have to stop for every side turning.

l`m not talking about those little diagrams with " BIKE" plastered all over them am l??? l said a single white line, or other indicator, grey, whatever. THESE WORK WELL on the continent where l have travelled widely, particularly Germany and Holland, where they have more imagination and common sense. ln Germany for example, when these tracks cross side streets, in some areas they even have their own small set of traffic lights, other areas the pavement is divided, 50/50 equally for pedestrians and cyclists. There is no trouble, if a cyclist is coming up to a couple of pedestrians and needs to pass they just politely give a ring with their bell and people give them room to pass, there, unlike here unfortunately, they know the spirit of co-operation and it works well!

As I said, full of pedestrians and you have to stop at EVERY side turning. Utterly useless for any meaningful travel. The road is quicker and safer.

Yes, what you said earlier about street furniture is true enough, but to be honest they are not exactly on every street corner are they, just a very few here and there. Most streets here are not that different than on the continent, and they also are full of pedestrians. The difference between here and there is the approach. There, they do have the dividing line and it works! people walk on the pedestrian part, and cyclists keep to the cyclying part. Where the actual pavement is used by both, this is simply indicated by a sign every so often that shows a picture of a cyclist on one side and a pedestrian on the other, so that everyone knows it is for both, a bit like shared space, but strictly only for cyclists and pedestrians, this is the bit where, if 2 people are walking abreast and the cyclist wants to pass, they ring, and people move aside to let them, l`ve never seen any problems or unpleasantness, people just accept it and co operate with each other, l think we could learn some lessons here from that!! When the cycle path is separate from the pavement then obviously it`s easier as the bounderies are completely separate.

The road is safer. Pavements are for pedestrians, roads are for bicycles.

You don`t need to convince me! as l said in my first comment l always use the roads, mainly for speed, and l cycle fast, even at 65 and have been cycling since l was 7. But, it obviously makes more sense to have a decent, working setup as they do on the continent. Even though l cycle on the roads, l feel safer on the continent because of their cycle tracks or shared pavements, and l have had a couple of idiot drivers in Southend who just opened their car doors without checking, l actually carry a camera with me, for evidence, if l am ever hit, it`s useful, but as l keep saying it works well on the continent, it could work well here, it is only the will by the council, who think they always know best, and are always right, even when they are not, and that is something l do not respect!

Ps, forgot to add that although l always cycle on the roads l definitely do not think they are safer, as you say! As l said l was twice almost hit by careless drivers who just didn`t check, this obviously would never happen on a pavement, or the buses that sometimes come just that little bit too close!

V_is_back wrote:

Almeda11 wrote:

Almeda11 wrote:

V_is_back wrote:

Almeda11 wrote:

V_is_back wrote:

Almeda11 wrote:

V_is_back wrote:

Almeda11 wrote:

reptile wrote: She should receive a commendation for riding on the road as I've never seen a cyclist that's not pushing past people on the footpath.

l am 65 and l ALWAYS cycle on the roads, and l do see others who do too, but many more cycle on the pavements, pavements which are wide enough in many places to support a cycle track by means of a white line painted either on the outside of that pavement or the inside of the road. There are many areas, particularly along the most direct route, the London Rd, from Highlands in Leigh to Southend Victoria Plaza, but our short sighted council lacks the will to do this, it`s done in most of the continent with great successs, just what is wrong with this country?

The absolute worst cycle facilities are those painted on pavements. People walk in them, they are too narrow, they have street furniture like lampposts and signs in them, you cannot proceed at a useful speed, you have to stop for every side turning.

l`m not talking about those little diagrams with " BIKE" plastered all over them am l??? l said a single white line, or other indicator, grey, whatever. THESE WORK WELL on the continent where l have travelled widely, particularly Germany and Holland, where they have more imagination and common sense. ln Germany for example, when these tracks cross side streets, in some areas they even have their own small set of traffic lights, other areas the pavement is divided, 50/50 equally for pedestrians and cyclists. There is no trouble, if a cyclist is coming up to a couple of pedestrians and needs to pass they just politely give a ring with their bell and people give them room to pass, there, unlike here unfortunately, they know the spirit of co-operation and it works well!

As I said, full of pedestrians and you have to stop at EVERY side turning. Utterly useless for any meaningful travel. The road is quicker and safer.

Yes, what you said earlier about street furniture is true enough, but to be honest they are not exactly on every street corner are they, just a very few here and there. Most streets here are not that different than on the continent, and they also are full of pedestrians. The difference between here and there is the approach. There, they do have the dividing line and it works! people walk on the pedestrian part, and cyclists keep to the cyclying part. Where the actual pavement is used by both, this is simply indicated by a sign every so often that shows a picture of a cyclist on one side and a pedestrian on the other, so that everyone knows it is for both, a bit like shared space, but strictly only for cyclists and pedestrians, this is the bit where, if 2 people are walking abreast and the cyclist wants to pass, they ring, and people move aside to let them, l`ve never seen any problems or unpleasantness, people just accept it and co operate with each other, l think we could learn some lessons here from that!! When the cycle path is separate from the pavement then obviously it`s easier as the bounderies are completely separate.

The road is safer. Pavements are for pedestrians, roads are for bicycles.

You don`t need to convince me! as l said in my first comment l always use the roads, mainly for speed, and l cycle fast, even at 65 and have been cycling since l was 7. But, it obviously makes more sense to have a decent, working setup as they do on the continent. Even though l cycle on the roads, l feel safer on the continent because of their cycle tracks or shared pavements, and l have had a couple of idiot drivers in Southend who just opened their car doors without checking, l actually carry a camera with me, for evidence, if l am ever hit, it`s useful, but as l keep saying it works well on the continent, it could work well here, it is only the will by the council, who think they always know best, and are always right, even when they are not, and that is something l do not respect!

Ps, forgot to add that although l always cycle on the roads l definitely do not think they are safer, as you say! As l said l was twice almost hit by careless drivers who just didn`t check, this obviously would never happen on a pavement, or the buses that sometimes come just that little bit too close!

If a bus passes too close then take the registration and complain to the company concerned. Even better get yourself a helmet camera and save the video of close passes.