"Sadlers Farm would never happen in Southend" (From Echo)

“It is disappointing to be compared with Sadlers Farm, which is not quite on time or on budget, when Southend has a tremendous record on delivery.”

Mr Tinlins quote above - Well Mr Tinlin, Victoria Circus is a complete FAIL, Schitty Beach - FAIL and who thought of 3 lanes down to 2 at Progress Road - another FAIL. Stop interfering with schemes that are not necessary.

when does this comedian's one man stand up show open at the Cliffs?

HaHa! ROFLMAO!!!
.
Yes you maybe correct Mr Tinlin in pointing out that Vic Circus, etc, was finished on time and in budget,
.
But, what you actually achieved was causing gridlock where previously there was no gridlock!!
.
So i fail to see how you can compare the two! (the same goes for Cockup Corner too!).
.
You and your posse are systematically destroying this towns infrastruture and removing any character this town once had.
Conjestion, Muggings, Sexual assults, Gun crime, burglaries, are increasing at an unprecedented rate!
.
Let's be honest, come on admit it, you really havent got a clue what youre doing?
.
You just dont have the towns interests at heart do you?
.
SBC's whole ethos is wrong, it's not what SBC can do for you, it's what SBC can do you for!

When are cyclists going to see as much investment? Sadlers Farm alone cost more than the entire yearly budget allocated to improving cycle facilities in the entire UK by Call-me-Dave.

Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:
When are cyclists going to see as much investment? Sadlers Farm alone cost more than the entire yearly budget allocated to improving cycle facilities in the entire UK by Call-me-Dave.

And cyclists pay all the same taxes as everyone else, so why do we get such a raw deal? Maybe we should start withholding our council tax until SBC starts properly investing in cycle infrastructure instead of just painting a few white lines.

Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:

Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:
When are cyclists going to see as much investment? Sadlers Farm alone cost more than the entire yearly budget allocated to improving cycle facilities in the entire UK by Call-me-Dave.

And cyclists pay all the same taxes as everyone else, so why do we get such a raw deal? Maybe we should start withholding our council tax until SBC starts properly investing in cycle infrastructure instead of just painting a few white lines.

Even though I do not cycle nearly as much as I used to (hardly ever these days, truth be told), I tend to agree. The town's facilities for cyclists is truly appalling. Very little money is spent on an infrastructure which is friendly to cyclists and only "token" measures are taken when cyclists safety is concerned.
Bicycles have long been accepted as a green form of transport and yet short sighted councils give cyclists very distant third place recognition over car drivers and pedestrians. In fact you would be very hard pressed not to think that Southend Council would rather cyclists did not exist at all.

Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:

Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:
When are cyclists going to see as much investment? Sadlers Farm alone cost more than the entire yearly budget allocated to improving cycle facilities in the entire UK by Call-me-Dave.

And cyclists pay all the same taxes as everyone else, so why do we get such a raw deal? Maybe we should start withholding our council tax until SBC starts properly investing in cycle infrastructure instead of just painting a few white lines.

why don't you just shut up about your stupid bike! NO ONE CARES.
fed up reading stories and seeing your comments on here time and time again about your bikes! This is not about bikes it's about roads. if you have a problem with no money spent on bikes do something about it, we don't want to hear about it!

I want to hear about it, you dont speak for me Mark.

What a bunch of jokers...... Not Southend Council........ the jokers who have already commented on here saying that recent works haven't improved getting into and out of Southend!!!

I've driven from Shoebury to Basildon and back pretty much every working day since 1997.

The journey home would always see me joining the back of a queue of traffic at Rayleigh Weir and then pretty much nose to tail along the rest of the A127.

Some evenings I hardly stop at Progress Road and my journey time has been cut from around an hour to 30-40mins.

The proof is in the pudding as they say. Whilst the Victoria gateway isn't perfect, Progress Road and Cukoo corner seem to work very well.

However let's just forget facts and turn this into another political point scoring activity........

Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:

Shoebury_Cyclist wrote: When are cyclists going to see as much investment? Sadlers Farm alone cost more than the entire yearly budget allocated to improving cycle facilities in the entire UK by Call-me-Dave.

And cyclists pay all the same taxes as everyone else, so why do we get such a raw deal? Maybe we should start withholding our council tax until SBC starts properly investing in cycle infrastructure instead of just painting a few white lines.

@Shoebury Cyclist - No you do not pay the same taxes as everyone else. You do not pay any road tax and the vast majority have no insurance and thus don't pay insurance premium taxes. Nor do you pay any of the motoring stealth taxes such as parking, no equivalent of an MoT and a fraction of VAT incurred on any related travel costs.

On top of that, a majority of cyclists disregard the laws of the land and use the pavements, at great speed and at the peril of pedestrians. That's aside from not sporting lights (another legal requirement) and disregarding traffic lights when it best suits them.

When the 2-wheeled fraternity get their house in order then they can have an equal voice in matters pertaining to road layouts. Until then, a curse on you all.

What a hypocritical person! Must have been to the same school as Nero!

perini wrote:
“It is disappointing to be compared with Sadlers Farm, which is not quite on time or on budget, when Southend has a tremendous record on delivery.”

Mr Tinlins quote above - Well Mr Tinlin, Victoria Circus is a complete FAIL, Schitty Beach - FAIL and who thought of 3 lanes down to 2 at Progress Road - another FAIL. Stop interfering with schemes that are not necessary.

Exactly and that is only the tip of the land slip ....

The Southend Observer wrote:

Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:

Shoebury_Cyclist wrote: When are cyclists going to see as much investment? Sadlers Farm alone cost more than the entire yearly budget allocated to improving cycle facilities in the entire UK by Call-me-Dave.

And cyclists pay all the same taxes as everyone else, so why do we get such a raw deal? Maybe we should start withholding our council tax until SBC starts properly investing in cycle infrastructure instead of just painting a few white lines.

@Shoebury Cyclist - No you do not pay the same taxes as everyone else. You do not pay any road tax and the vast majority have no insurance and thus don't pay insurance premium taxes. Nor do you pay any of the motoring stealth taxes such as parking, no equivalent of an MoT and a fraction of VAT incurred on any related travel costs.

On top of that, a majority of cyclists disregard the laws of the land and use the pavements, at great speed and at the peril of pedestrians. That's aside from not sporting lights (another legal requirement) and disregarding traffic lights when it best suits them.

When the 2-wheeled fraternity get their house in order then they can have an equal voice in matters pertaining to road layouts. Until then, a curse on you all.

Really? Would you also say that about police cars, ambulances, fire engines, electric vehicles, very low emission vehicles, and every vehicle registered before january 1st 1973? Because none of those pay for a tax disc either.

There is no such thing as 'road tax'.'Road tax' was abolished in 1937. We pay VEHICLE Excise Duty, or car tax, which is a tax on engine size or CO2 emissions. It has precisely nothing to do with any 'right' to be on the road. No-one in the entire UK pays to use the roads, except on a few toll roads and bridges/tunnels.

Roads, cycle lanes, and pavements are paid for through council tax, income tax and every other tax that goes into the central government pot, all of which are also paid by cyclists. Plus 88% of cyclists also drive, so they pay all the same taxes as everyone else. There is only ONE hypothecated (google it) tax in the UK: the television licence. Every other tax goes into the central pot and is distributed as the exchequer sees fit.

Roads are free for anyone to use, that's why they are called the PUBLIC Highway. In fact pedestrians, horse riders, and cyclists have an automatic right to use roads. People in motor vehicles do not have an automatic right. They have to earn a licence to say they are competent to safely use a motor vehicle on the roads, and then they are licensed to be on the roads in a motor vehicle.

There's no point any of us complaining about how expensive it is to use our cars. For the great majority cars are a luxury, they're not a necessity, we have public transport, walking, and yes, cycling as alternatives. The simple truth is VED or car tax, and fuel duty are lifestyle taxes - just like tobacco duty and alcohol duty - and as such they are entirely avoidable.

mark-986 wrote:

Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:

Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:
When are cyclists going to see as much investment? Sadlers Farm alone cost more than the entire yearly budget allocated to improving cycle facilities in the entire UK by Call-me-Dave.

And cyclists pay all the same taxes as everyone else, so why do we get such a raw deal? Maybe we should start withholding our council tax until SBC starts properly investing in cycle infrastructure instead of just painting a few white lines.

why don't you just shut up about your stupid bike! NO ONE CARES.
fed up reading stories and seeing your comments on here time and time again about your bikes! This is not about bikes it's about roads. if you have a problem with no money spent on bikes do something about it, we don't want to hear about it!

People on bikes are road users - and tax payers - too.

I agree 100% with Russ.

And the city beach is a good scheme so much nicer than it was. Its great to see kids playing there on a summer evening.

Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:

Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:
When are cyclists going to see as much investment? Sadlers Farm alone cost more than the entire yearly budget allocated to improving cycle facilities in the entire UK by Call-me-Dave.

And cyclists pay all the same taxes as everyone else, so why do we get such a raw deal? Maybe we should start withholding our council tax until SBC starts properly investing in cycle infrastructure instead of just painting a few white lines.

Do they, so cyclists pay road tax, insurance, fuel tax, MoT's...

Prey tell when did that all start as I have only been out of the UK for a few days they must have started that quickly, well if I am going to have to pay for my bike as well as car and motor bike than the cycle can go.

Joe Wildman wrote:

Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:

Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:
When are cyclists going to see as much investment? Sadlers Farm alone cost more than the entire yearly budget allocated to improving cycle facilities in the entire UK by Call-me-Dave.

And cyclists pay all the same taxes as everyone else, so why do we get such a raw deal? Maybe we should start withholding our council tax until SBC starts properly investing in cycle infrastructure instead of just painting a few white lines.

Do they, so cyclists pay road tax, insurance, fuel tax, MoT's...

Prey tell when did that all start as I have only been out of the UK for a few days they must have started that quickly, well if I am going to have to pay for my bike as well as car and motor bike than the cycle can go.

I pay VED/Insurance/MOT/et
c on 3 vehicles, and when I'm cycling I'm not using them - should I be asking for a refund?

Don't forget that the majority of adult cyclists have a driving licence. I am not alone here.


Why is there so much cyclist bashing on these pages? As for the comment re getting the house in order before posting, I take it that will apply to drivers? After all, "all" drivers are speeding mobile phone using seatbelt avoiding dangerous maniacs, and none of them have insurance or MOTs because I see lots of cars impounded on Police Interceptors for that when I watch it ;)

Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:
When are cyclists going to see as much investment? Sadlers Farm alone cost more than the entire yearly budget allocated to improving cycle facilities in the entire UK by Call-me-Dave.

When they start paying road tax?

saarfender wrote:

Joe Wildman wrote:

Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:

Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:
When are cyclists going to see as much investment? Sadlers Farm alone cost more than the entire yearly budget allocated to improving cycle facilities in the entire UK by Call-me-Dave.

And cyclists pay all the same taxes as everyone else, so why do we get such a raw deal? Maybe we should start withholding our council tax until SBC starts properly investing in cycle infrastructure instead of just painting a few white lines.

Do they, so cyclists pay road tax, insurance, fuel tax, MoT's...

Prey tell when did that all start as I have only been out of the UK for a few days they must have started that quickly, well if I am going to have to pay for my bike as well as car and motor bike than the cycle can go.

I pay VED/Insurance/MOT/et

c on 3 vehicles, and when I'm cycling I'm not using them - should I be asking for a refund?

Don't forget that the majority of adult cyclists have a driving licence. I am not alone here.


Why is there so much cyclist bashing on these pages? As for the comment re getting the house in order before posting, I take it that will apply to drivers? After all, "all" drivers are speeding mobile phone using seatbelt avoiding dangerous maniacs, and none of them have insurance or MOTs because I see lots of cars impounded on Police Interceptors for that when I watch it ;)

I think you will find that a cyclist (and I cycle too) tried to hijack the proceedings so to have a bit of response was certainly to be expected.

Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:
When are cyclists going to see as much investment? Sadlers Farm alone cost more than the entire yearly budget allocated to improving cycle facilities in the entire UK by Call-me-Dave.

Don't forget that Southend got £3.2million matched funding, so spent £6.4 million in total on cycle infrastructure as part of their Cycle Town project. As the article said " the authority’s track record in sourcing funding and delivering such schemes was a source of pride. "

I'm not quite certain where that funding got spent mind you.... there's that narrow dangerous seafront path, then the reported allocations in the press of "Shared space" at city beach and victoria gateway, as well as the few painted cycle lanes on the pavement at Progress Road and Cuckoo Corner.

It'd be interesting to know just how much of the cycle town project funding went into the BS projects.

Joe Wildman wrote:

Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:

Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:
When are cyclists going to see as much investment? Sadlers Farm alone cost more than the entire yearly budget allocated to improving cycle facilities in the entire UK by Call-me-Dave.

And cyclists pay all the same taxes as everyone else, so why do we get such a raw deal? Maybe we should start withholding our council tax until SBC starts properly investing in cycle infrastructure instead of just painting a few white lines.

Do they, so cyclists pay road tax, insurance, fuel tax, MoT's...

Prey tell when did that all start as I have only been out of the UK for a few days they must have started that quickly, well if I am going to have to pay for my bike as well as car and motor bike than the cycle can go.

Perhaps you didn't read this earlier, I'll post it again for you:

There is no such thing as 'road tax'.'Road tax' was abolished in 1937. We pay VEHICLE Excise Duty, or car tax, which is a tax on engine size or CO2 emissions. It has precisely nothing to do with any 'right' to be on the road. No-one in the entire UK pays to use the roads, except on a few toll roads and bridges/tunnels.

Roads, cycle lanes, and pavements are paid for through council tax, income tax and every other tax that goes into the central government pot, all of which are also paid by cyclists. Plus 88% of cyclists also drive, so they pay all the same taxes as everyone else. There is only ONE hypothecated (google it) tax in the UK: the television licence. Every other tax goes into the central pot and is distributed as the exchequer sees fit.

Roads are free for anyone to use, that's why they are called the PUBLIC Highway. In fact pedestrians, horse riders, and cyclists have an automatic right to use roads. People in motor vehicles do not have an automatic right. They have to earn a licence to say they are competent to safely use a motor vehicle on the roads, and then they are licensed to be on the roads in a motor vehicle.

There's no point any of us complaining about how expensive it is to use our cars. For the great majority cars are a luxury, they're not a necessity, we have public transport, walking, and yes, cycling as alternatives. The simple truth is VED or car tax, and fuel duty are lifestyle taxes - just like tobacco duty and alcohol duty - and as such they are entirely avoidable.

mikepaterson wrote:

Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:
When are cyclists going to see as much investment? Sadlers Farm alone cost more than the entire yearly budget allocated to improving cycle facilities in the entire UK by Call-me-Dave.

When they start paying road tax?

Cyclists can start paying road tax when car drivers do too.

Nobody has paid road tax, or for the roads via a dedicated tax, since Winston Churchill abolished the tax in 1936 with the comment of - no section of society should consider they own the roads because they pay.

Roads are paid for out of the same general taxation pot as everything else. i.e. the tax I just paid on my weekly shopping has paid for the maintenance of the roads I used to get there.

To take it to extremes, I saw an article the other year proving that financially cyclists pay for the majority of the roads due to the amount of cost to the NHS/emergency services that motorist collisions incur.



Oh, and as for the roads, let me leave you with this thought. If it hadn't been for a cyclist organisation campaigning for better road surfaces and then creating a sub-organisation called the AA - you'd still be driving on gravel tracks instead of tarmac ;)

mikepaterson wrote:

Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:
When are cyclists going to see as much investment? Sadlers Farm alone cost more than the entire yearly budget allocated to improving cycle facilities in the entire UK by Call-me-Dave.

When they start paying road tax?

Perhaps you didn't read this earlier, I'll post it again for you:

There is no such thing as 'road tax'.'Road tax' was abolished in 1937. We pay VEHICLE Excise Duty, or car tax, which is a tax on engine size or CO2 emissions. It has precisely nothing to do with any 'right' to be on the road. No-one in the entire UK pays to use the roads, except on a few toll roads and bridges/tunnels.

Roads, cycle lanes, and pavements are paid for through council tax, income tax and every other tax that goes into the central government pot, all of which are also paid by cyclists. Plus 88% of cyclists also drive, so they pay all the same taxes as everyone else. There is only ONE hypothecated (google it) tax in the UK: the television licence. Every other tax goes into the central pot and is distributed as the exchequer sees fit.

Roads are free for anyone to use, that's why they are called the PUBLIC Highway. In fact pedestrians, horse riders, and cyclists have an automatic right to use roads. People in motor vehicles do not have an automatic right. They have to earn a licence to say they are competent to safely use a motor vehicle on the roads, and then they are licensed to be on the roads in a motor vehicle.

There's no point any of us complaining about how expensive it is to use our cars. For the great majority cars are a luxury, they're not a necessity, we have public transport, walking, and yes, cycling as alternatives. The simple truth is VED or car tax, and fuel duty are lifestyle taxes - just like tobacco duty and alcohol duty - and as such they are entirely avoidable.

mikepaterson wrote:

saarfender wrote:

Joe Wildman wrote:

Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:

Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:
When are cyclists going to see as much investment? Sadlers Farm alone cost more than the entire yearly budget allocated to improving cycle facilities in the entire UK by Call-me-Dave.

And cyclists pay all the same taxes as everyone else, so why do we get such a raw deal? Maybe we should start withholding our council tax until SBC starts properly investing in cycle infrastructure instead of just painting a few white lines.

Do they, so cyclists pay road tax, insurance, fuel tax, MoT's...

Prey tell when did that all start as I have only been out of the UK for a few days they must have started that quickly, well if I am going to have to pay for my bike as well as car and motor bike than the cycle can go.

I pay VED/Insurance/MOT/et


c on 3 vehicles, and when I'm cycling I'm not using them - should I be asking for a refund?

Don't forget that the majority of adult cyclists have a driving licence. I am not alone here.


Why is there so much cyclist bashing on these pages? As for the comment re getting the house in order before posting, I take it that will apply to drivers? After all, "all" drivers are speeding mobile phone using seatbelt avoiding dangerous maniacs, and none of them have insurance or MOTs because I see lots of cars impounded on Police Interceptors for that when I watch it ;)

I think you will find that a cyclist (and I cycle too) tried to hijack the proceedings so to have a bit of response was certainly to be expected.

It isn't hijacking for a road user to ask why they are not getting a fair share of expenditure.

Cyclist V car,road tax,vehicle exise duty,call it what you will,heard it all before.I am sure "shoebury cyclist"is a robot who spews out the same old rubbish on this forum every time roads are mentioned.

andy:) wrote:
I want to hear about it, you dont speak for me Mark.

then why don't you and him go somewhere else and talk about it!

firedog wrote:
Cyclist V car,road tax,vehicle exise duty,call it what you will,heard it all before.I am sure "shoebury cyclist"is a robot who spews out the same old rubbish on this forum every time roads are mentioned.

im so glad im not the only one who is fed up reading his rubbish

Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:

mikepaterson wrote:

Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:
When are cyclists going to see as much investment? Sadlers Farm alone cost more than the entire yearly budget allocated to improving cycle facilities in the entire UK by Call-me-Dave.

When they start paying road tax?

Perhaps you didn't read this earlier, I'll post it again for you:

There is no such thing as 'road tax'.'Road tax' was abolished in 1937. We pay VEHICLE Excise Duty, or car tax, which is a tax on engine size or CO2 emissions. It has precisely nothing to do with any 'right' to be on the road. No-one in the entire UK pays to use the roads, except on a few toll roads and bridges/tunnels.

Roads, cycle lanes, and pavements are paid for through council tax, income tax and every other tax that goes into the central government pot, all of which are also paid by cyclists. Plus 88% of cyclists also drive, so they pay all the same taxes as everyone else. There is only ONE hypothecated (google it) tax in the UK: the television licence. Every other tax goes into the central pot and is distributed as the exchequer sees fit.

Roads are free for anyone to use, that's why they are called the PUBLIC Highway. In fact pedestrians, horse riders, and cyclists have an automatic right to use roads. People in motor vehicles do not have an automatic right. They have to earn a licence to say they are competent to safely use a motor vehicle on the roads, and then they are licensed to be on the roads in a motor vehicle.

There's no point any of us complaining about how expensive it is to use our cars. For the great majority cars are a luxury, they're not a necessity, we have public transport, walking, and yes, cycling as alternatives. The simple truth is VED or car tax, and fuel duty are lifestyle taxes - just like tobacco duty and alcohol duty - and as such they are entirely avoidable.

you are a broken record! like usual another post full of bike rubbish although it's nothing to do with bikes!

Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:

mark-986 wrote:

Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:

Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:
When are cyclists going to see as much investment? Sadlers Farm alone cost more than the entire yearly budget allocated to improving cycle facilities in the entire UK by Call-me-Dave.

And cyclists pay all the same taxes as everyone else, so why do we get such a raw deal? Maybe we should start withholding our council tax until SBC starts properly investing in cycle infrastructure instead of just painting a few white lines.

why don't you just shut up about your stupid bike! NO ONE CARES.
fed up reading stories and seeing your comments on here time and time again about your bikes! This is not about bikes it's about roads. if you have a problem with no money spent on bikes do something about it, we don't want to hear about it!

People on bikes are road users - and tax payers - too.

maybe so but why keep on and on and on and on. i have been reading echo for years and i always seem to find you on here talking about your bikes, even on stories that have nothing to do with your stupid bikes, has anyone ever listened to you or change the law by reading your comments? NO they have not so why keep on. i am fed up with you changing the posts if it's not about bikes why are you making comments about them?
This post is all about bikes once again. about time you talk about something else.

mark-986 wrote:

Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:

mark-986 wrote:

Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:

Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:
When are cyclists going to see as much investment? Sadlers Farm alone cost more than the entire yearly budget allocated to improving cycle facilities in the entire UK by Call-me-Dave.

And cyclists pay all the same taxes as everyone else, so why do we get such a raw deal? Maybe we should start withholding our council tax until SBC starts properly investing in cycle infrastructure instead of just painting a few white lines.

why don't you just shut up about your stupid bike! NO ONE CARES.
fed up reading stories and seeing your comments on here time and time again about your bikes! This is not about bikes it's about roads. if you have a problem with no money spent on bikes do something about it, we don't want to hear about it!

People on bikes are road users - and tax payers - too.

maybe so but why keep on and on and on and on. i have been reading echo for years and i always seem to find you on here talking about your bikes, even on stories that have nothing to do with your stupid bikes, has anyone ever listened to you or change the law by reading your comments? NO they have not so why keep on. i am fed up with you changing the posts if it's not about bikes why are you making comments about them?
This post is all about bikes once again. about time you talk about something else.

All I did was ask why cyclists are not getting a fair share of expenditure. The cycle-haters made it about bikes.

mark-986 wrote:

Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:

mikepaterson wrote:

Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:
When are cyclists going to see as much investment? Sadlers Farm alone cost more than the entire yearly budget allocated to improving cycle facilities in the entire UK by Call-me-Dave.

When they start paying road tax?

Perhaps you didn't read this earlier, I'll post it again for you:

There is no such thing as 'road tax'.'Road tax' was abolished in 1937. We pay VEHICLE Excise Duty, or car tax, which is a tax on engine size or CO2 emissions. It has precisely nothing to do with any 'right' to be on the road. No-one in the entire UK pays to use the roads, except on a few toll roads and bridges/tunnels.

Roads, cycle lanes, and pavements are paid for through council tax, income tax and every other tax that goes into the central government pot, all of which are also paid by cyclists. Plus 88% of cyclists also drive, so they pay all the same taxes as everyone else. There is only ONE hypothecated (google it) tax in the UK: the television licence. Every other tax goes into the central pot and is distributed as the exchequer sees fit.

Roads are free for anyone to use, that's why they are called the PUBLIC Highway. In fact pedestrians, horse riders, and cyclists have an automatic right to use roads. People in motor vehicles do not have an automatic right. They have to earn a licence to say they are competent to safely use a motor vehicle on the roads, and then they are licensed to be on the roads in a motor vehicle.

There's no point any of us complaining about how expensive it is to use our cars. For the great majority cars are a luxury, they're not a necessity, we have public transport, walking, and yes, cycling as alternatives. The simple truth is VED or car tax, and fuel duty are lifestyle taxes - just like tobacco duty and alcohol duty - and as such they are entirely avoidable.

you are a broken record! like usual another post full of bike rubbish although it's nothing to do with bikes!

Cyclists are road users too. The story is about road improvements. We would like to see road improvements for cyclists too. It has everything to do with bikes. ;)

Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:

mark-986 wrote:

Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:

mark-986 wrote:

Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:

Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:
When are cyclists going to see as much investment? Sadlers Farm alone cost more than the entire yearly budget allocated to improving cycle facilities in the entire UK by Call-me-Dave.

And cyclists pay all the same taxes as everyone else, so why do we get such a raw deal? Maybe we should start withholding our council tax until SBC starts properly investing in cycle infrastructure instead of just painting a few white lines.

why don't you just shut up about your stupid bike! NO ONE CARES.
fed up reading stories and seeing your comments on here time and time again about your bikes! This is not about bikes it's about roads. if you have a problem with no money spent on bikes do something about it, we don't want to hear about it!

People on bikes are road users - and tax payers - too.

maybe so but why keep on and on and on and on. i have been reading echo for years and i always seem to find you on here talking about your bikes, even on stories that have nothing to do with your stupid bikes, has anyone ever listened to you or change the law by reading your comments? NO they have not so why keep on. i am fed up with you changing the posts if it's not about bikes why are you making comments about them?
This post is all about bikes once again. about time you talk about something else.

All I did was ask why cyclists are not getting a fair share of expenditure. The cycle-haters made it about bikes.

maybe if you didn't go on and on there wouldn't be any bike haters.

I hate cyclists.

mark-986 wrote:

Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:

mark-986 wrote:

Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:

mark-986 wrote:

Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:

Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:
When are cyclists going to see as much investment? Sadlers Farm alone cost more than the entire yearly budget allocated to improving cycle facilities in the entire UK by Call-me-Dave.

And cyclists pay all the same taxes as everyone else, so why do we get such a raw deal? Maybe we should start withholding our council tax until SBC starts properly investing in cycle infrastructure instead of just painting a few white lines.

why don't you just shut up about your stupid bike! NO ONE CARES.
fed up reading stories and seeing your comments on here time and time again about your bikes! This is not about bikes it's about roads. if you have a problem with no money spent on bikes do something about it, we don't want to hear about it!

People on bikes are road users - and tax payers - too.

maybe so but why keep on and on and on and on. i have been reading echo for years and i always seem to find you on here talking about your bikes, even on stories that have nothing to do with your stupid bikes, has anyone ever listened to you or change the law by reading your comments? NO they have not so why keep on. i am fed up with you changing the posts if it's not about bikes why are you making comments about them?
This post is all about bikes once again. about time you talk about something else.

All I did was ask why cyclists are not getting a fair share of expenditure. The cycle-haters made it about bikes.

maybe if you didn't go on and on there wouldn't be any bike haters.

If people are going to post nonsense about a non-existent tax, then i am going to respond.

Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:

mikepaterson wrote:

saarfender wrote:

Joe Wildman wrote:

Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:

Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:
When are cyclists going to see as much investment? Sadlers Farm alone cost more than the entire yearly budget allocated to improving cycle facilities in the entire UK by Call-me-Dave.

And cyclists pay all the same taxes as everyone else, so why do we get such a raw deal? Maybe we should start withholding our council tax until SBC starts properly investing in cycle infrastructure instead of just painting a few white lines.

Do they, so cyclists pay road tax, insurance, fuel tax, MoT's...

Prey tell when did that all start as I have only been out of the UK for a few days they must have started that quickly, well if I am going to have to pay for my bike as well as car and motor bike than the cycle can go.

I pay VED/Insurance/MOT/et



c on 3 vehicles, and when I'm cycling I'm not using them - should I be asking for a refund?

Don't forget that the majority of adult cyclists have a driving licence. I am not alone here.


Why is there so much cyclist bashing on these pages? As for the comment re getting the house in order before posting, I take it that will apply to drivers? After all, "all" drivers are speeding mobile phone using seatbelt avoiding dangerous maniacs, and none of them have insurance or MOTs because I see lots of cars impounded on Police Interceptors for that when I watch it ;)

I think you will find that a cyclist (and I cycle too) tried to hijack the proceedings so to have a bit of response was certainly to be expected.

It isn't hijacking for a road user to ask why they are not getting a fair share of expenditure.

In terms of passenger miles I would guess that cyclists do get their fair share.

Nebs wrote:

Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:

mikepaterson wrote:

saarfender wrote:

Joe Wildman wrote:

Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:

Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:
When are cyclists going to see as much investment? Sadlers Farm alone cost more than the entire yearly budget allocated to improving cycle facilities in the entire UK by Call-me-Dave.

And cyclists pay all the same taxes as everyone else, so why do we get such a raw deal? Maybe we should start withholding our council tax until SBC starts properly investing in cycle infrastructure instead of just painting a few white lines.

Do they, so cyclists pay road tax, insurance, fuel tax, MoT's...

Prey tell when did that all start as I have only been out of the UK for a few days they must have started that quickly, well if I am going to have to pay for my bike as well as car and motor bike than the cycle can go.

I pay VED/Insurance/MOT/et




c on 3 vehicles, and when I'm cycling I'm not using them - should I be asking for a refund?

Don't forget that the majority of adult cyclists have a driving licence. I am not alone here.


Why is there so much cyclist bashing on these pages? As for the comment re getting the house in order before posting, I take it that will apply to drivers? After all, "all" drivers are speeding mobile phone using seatbelt avoiding dangerous maniacs, and none of them have insurance or MOTs because I see lots of cars impounded on Police Interceptors for that when I watch it ;)

I think you will find that a cyclist (and I cycle too) tried to hijack the proceedings so to have a bit of response was certainly to be expected.

It isn't hijacking for a road user to ask why they are not getting a fair share of expenditure.

In terms of passenger miles I would guess that cyclists do get their fair share.

how are you not getting your fair share the roads are for everyone to use i can't see what your problem is you even get bits to get in front of cars at some traffic lights and then you have the useless bike lane on the seafront can think of many other things we can have there instead.

mark-986 wrote:

Nebs wrote:

Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:

mikepaterson wrote:

saarfender wrote:

Joe Wildman wrote:

Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:

Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:
When are cyclists going to see as much investment? Sadlers Farm alone cost more than the entire yearly budget allocated to improving cycle facilities in the entire UK by Call-me-Dave.

And cyclists pay all the same taxes as everyone else, so why do we get such a raw deal? Maybe we should start withholding our council tax until SBC starts properly investing in cycle infrastructure instead of just painting a few white lines.

Do they, so cyclists pay road tax, insurance, fuel tax, MoT's...

Prey tell when did that all start as I have only been out of the UK for a few days they must have started that quickly, well if I am going to have to pay for my bike as well as car and motor bike than the cycle can go.

I pay VED/Insurance/MOT/et





c on 3 vehicles, and when I'm cycling I'm not using them - should I be asking for a refund?

Don't forget that the majority of adult cyclists have a driving licence. I am not alone here.


Why is there so much cyclist bashing on these pages? As for the comment re getting the house in order before posting, I take it that will apply to drivers? After all, "all" drivers are speeding mobile phone using seatbelt avoiding dangerous maniacs, and none of them have insurance or MOTs because I see lots of cars impounded on Police Interceptors for that when I watch it ;)

I think you will find that a cyclist (and I cycle too) tried to hijack the proceedings so to have a bit of response was certainly to be expected.

It isn't hijacking for a road user to ask why they are not getting a fair share of expenditure.

In terms of passenger miles I would guess that cyclists do get their fair share.

how are you not getting your fair share the roads are for everyone to use i can't see what your problem is you even get bits to get in front of cars at some traffic lights and then you have the useless bike lane on the seafront can think of many other things we can have there instead.

I agree about the seafront. The entire length of it should be made 20mph, the road should be reduced in width to just two lanes on the cliffs side of the promenade and the rest of the width pedestrianised.

Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:
When are cyclists going to see as much investment? Sadlers Farm alone cost more than the entire yearly budget allocated to improving cycle facilities in the entire UK by Call-me-Dave.

Maybe when they start paying road tax to contribute to the cost...

Makes me laugh that motorists get ripped off at every opportunity while cyclists expect to get their improvements paid for out of our road tax!

AndyBSG wrote:

Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:
When are cyclists going to see as much investment? Sadlers Farm alone cost more than the entire yearly budget allocated to improving cycle facilities in the entire UK by Call-me-Dave.

Maybe when they start paying road tax to contribute to the cost...

Makes me laugh that motorists get ripped off at every opportunity while cyclists expect to get their improvements paid for out of our road tax!

Yep. I'll start listening to cyclists opinions when the rules of the road are properly enforced on them.

To make it fair and ensure safety any cyclist found jumping lights, riding on pavements, riding with no lights, riding at night without hi-vis clothing, riding with no helmet, deliberately holding up traffic, non use of dedicated cycle lanes etc etc should have their bike confiscated immediately for a week, be fined on the spot & have to pay storage/ recovery costs.

When some balance is restored and there is as bigger incentive for cyclists to obey the road laws as there is for motorists is the time to start listening to their opinions.

As to anyone who thinks that VIctoria CIrcus is an improvement - they obviously don't have occasion to use it everyday & night. It is a shambles with too much priority given to buses and pedestrians and the lack of synchronisation of the various sets of lights is criminal

AndyBSG wrote:

Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:
When are cyclists going to see as much investment? Sadlers Farm alone cost more than the entire yearly budget allocated to improving cycle facilities in the entire UK by Call-me-Dave.

Maybe when they start paying road tax to contribute to the cost...

Makes me laugh that motorists get ripped off at every opportunity while cyclists expect to get their improvements paid for out of our road tax!

Maybe you should read previous posts before commenting, I'll post this a third time for you:

There is no such thing as 'road tax'.'Road tax' was abolished in 1937. We pay VEHICLE Excise Duty, or car tax, which is a tax on engine size or CO2 emissions. It has precisely nothing to do with any 'right' to be on the road. No-one in the entire UK pays to use the roads, except on a few toll roads and bridges/tunnels.

Roads, cycle lanes, and pavements are paid for through council tax, income tax and every other tax that goes into the central government pot, all of which are also paid by cyclists. Plus 88% of cyclists also drive, so they pay all the same taxes as everyone else. There is only ONE hypothecated (google it) tax in the UK: the television licence. Every other tax goes into the central pot and is distributed as the exchequer sees fit.

Roads are free for anyone to use, that's why they are called the PUBLIC Highway. In fact pedestrians, horse riders, and cyclists have an automatic right to use roads. People in motor vehicles do not have an automatic right. They have to earn a licence to say they are competent to safely use a motor vehicle on the roads, and then they are licensed to be on the roads in a motor vehicle.

There's no point any of us complaining about how expensive it is to use our cars. For the great majority cars are a luxury, they're not a necessity, we have public transport, walking, and yes, cycling as alternatives. The simple truth is VED or car tax, and fuel duty are lifestyle taxes - just like tobacco duty and alcohol duty - and as such they are entirely avoidable.

Ivanna Goodhump wrote:

AndyBSG wrote:

Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:
When are cyclists going to see as much investment? Sadlers Farm alone cost more than the entire yearly budget allocated to improving cycle facilities in the entire UK by Call-me-Dave.

Maybe when they start paying road tax to contribute to the cost...

Makes me laugh that motorists get ripped off at every opportunity while cyclists expect to get their improvements paid for out of our road tax!

Yep. I'll start listening to cyclists opinions when the rules of the road are properly enforced on them.

To make it fair and ensure safety any cyclist found jumping lights, riding on pavements, riding with no lights, riding at night without hi-vis clothing, riding with no helmet, deliberately holding up traffic, non use of dedicated cycle lanes etc etc should have their bike confiscated immediately for a week, be fined on the spot & have to pay storage/ recovery costs.

When some balance is restored and there is as bigger incentive for cyclists to obey the road laws as there is for motorists is the time to start listening to their opinions.

As to anyone who thinks that VIctoria CIrcus is an improvement - they obviously don't have occasion to use it everyday & night. It is a shambles with too much priority given to buses and pedestrians and the lack of synchronisation of the various sets of lights is criminal

Helmets and hi-vis are not compulsory, neither are they part of the 'rules of the road'. It is not compulsory to use cycle lanes, and the DfT advises any cyclist traveling at 18mph or more - IE most commuting cyclists - should use the road.

As for the rest I will accept that when the same rules are applied to motorists re: using mobile phones while driving, parking illegally, jumping red lights, speeding, tailgating, eating or drinking while driving, not indicating, cutting up, pulling out of side turnings without looking, driving without insurance or MOT, driving with under-inflated tyres, driving with non-working lights...

Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:

Ivanna Goodhump wrote:

AndyBSG wrote:

Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:
When are cyclists going to see as much investment? Sadlers Farm alone cost more than the entire yearly budget allocated to improving cycle facilities in the entire UK by Call-me-Dave.

Maybe when they start paying road tax to contribute to the cost...

Makes me laugh that motorists get ripped off at every opportunity while cyclists expect to get their improvements paid for out of our road tax!

Yep. I'll start listening to cyclists opinions when the rules of the road are properly enforced on them.

To make it fair and ensure safety any cyclist found jumping lights, riding on pavements, riding with no lights, riding at night without hi-vis clothing, riding with no helmet, deliberately holding up traffic, non use of dedicated cycle lanes etc etc should have their bike confiscated immediately for a week, be fined on the spot & have to pay storage/ recovery costs.

When some balance is restored and there is as bigger incentive for cyclists to obey the road laws as there is for motorists is the time to start listening to their opinions.

As to anyone who thinks that VIctoria CIrcus is an improvement - they obviously don't have occasion to use it everyday & night. It is a shambles with too much priority given to buses and pedestrians and the lack of synchronisation of the various sets of lights is criminal

Helmets and hi-vis are not compulsory, neither are they part of the 'rules of the road'. It is not compulsory to use cycle lanes, and the DfT advises any cyclist traveling at 18mph or more - IE most commuting cyclists - should use the road.

As for the rest I will accept that when the same rules are applied to motorists re: using mobile phones while driving, parking illegally, jumping red lights, speeding, tailgating, eating or drinking while driving, not indicating, cutting up, pulling out of side turnings without looking, driving without insurance or MOT, driving with under-inflated tyres, driving with non-working lights...

Why the argument, you seem to be in agreement that everyone is breaking the law.

In a measly attempt to get this comment thread back to the original article. After moving back to Southend after a few years away, it shocked me to see how terrible traffic is at Vic Circus. It wasn't problematic before, so why did they change it? Progress road is marginally better but now all that happens is people filter in from three to two lanes after the lights and there's been a fair few times where people have tried to cut me up. Cuckoo corner would have worked had they decided to put phased lights only during certain times of the day. It's ridiculous that I get caught by a red light on a roundabout and there is nothing coming from the right that would require me to stop otherwise.

So yes, it may have been delivered on time and on budget, but whether it was a complete or partial waste of local tax payer's money in addition to the amount of time they no doubt had to suffer the roadworks...well I know what my thoughts are.

Wrong - it already has at Tesco roundabout. it is one of the most dangerous i have driven on lately.

Oh yes I forgot about that interesting new road layout around Tesco. Point taken. It's all a shocking waste of money anyway.

The Southend Observer wrote:

Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:

Shoebury_Cyclist wrote: When are cyclists going to see as much investment? Sadlers Farm alone cost more than the entire yearly budget allocated to improving cycle facilities in the entire UK by Call-me-Dave.

And cyclists pay all the same taxes as everyone else, so why do we get such a raw deal? Maybe we should start withholding our council tax until SBC starts properly investing in cycle infrastructure instead of just painting a few white lines.

@Shoebury Cyclist - No you do not pay the same taxes as everyone else. You do not pay any road tax and the vast majority have no insurance and thus don't pay insurance premium taxes. Nor do you pay any of the motoring stealth taxes such as parking, no equivalent of an MoT and a fraction of VAT incurred on any related travel costs.

On top of that, a majority of cyclists disregard the laws of the land and use the pavements, at great speed and at the peril of pedestrians. That's aside from not sporting lights (another legal requirement) and disregarding traffic lights when it best suits them.

When the 2-wheeled fraternity get their house in order then they can have an equal voice in matters pertaining to road layouts. Until then, a curse on you all.

Well said "The Southend Observer" !!

The Southend Observer wrote:

Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:

Shoebury_Cyclist wrote: When are cyclists going to see as much investment? Sadlers Farm alone cost more than the entire yearly budget allocated to improving cycle facilities in the entire UK by Call-me-Dave.

And cyclists pay all the same taxes as everyone else, so why do we get such a raw deal? Maybe we should start withholding our council tax until SBC starts properly investing in cycle infrastructure instead of just painting a few white lines.

@Shoebury Cyclist - No you do not pay the same taxes as everyone else. You do not pay any road tax and the vast majority have no insurance and thus don't pay insurance premium taxes. Nor do you pay any of the motoring stealth taxes such as parking, no equivalent of an MoT and a fraction of VAT incurred on any related travel costs.

On top of that, a majority of cyclists disregard the laws of the land and use the pavements, at great speed and at the peril of pedestrians. That's aside from not sporting lights (another legal requirement) and disregarding traffic lights when it best suits them.

When the 2-wheeled fraternity get their house in order then they can have an equal voice in matters pertaining to road layouts. Until then, a curse on you all.

Thats a bit harsh. As a motorist who also owns and uses a bicycle I pay VAT on the batteries for my lights. I also stop at red lights, in fact I look forward to them as a chance to get my breath back..

I see that the majority of the comments on this story seem to bear no relation to the story itself.
Yes, we do have bottlenecks here in Southend, & yes, it would be a good idea to get them sorted. It is true that recent road projects in the borough have been delivered on time, within budget & with a lot of funding from sources other than the council tax payer. However, they have not improved traffic flow that much, & Victoria Circus is definitely worse than it was before.
Hopefully, when planning the "improvements" to the 3 A127 bottlenecks mentioned, those given the task will consider the cyclist in the same way that they will also consider pedestrians as well. Surely, cycle lanes, maybe even underpasses at some junction can be set up.
Please, can we stop all the harping on about the name of the tax that owners/drivers of motor vehicles (with notable exceptions such as zero emission vehicles) pay in order to be able to legally use their vehicles on the road? I think we all know that it is actually called Vehicle Excise Duty etc, & may even know about the abolition of "Road Tax" in the late 1930s, but it is common practice to refer to VED as "Road Tax", maybe in the same way that we erroneously refer to the Union Flag as the Union Jack, we all know what it means.
Incidently, whilst it is a legal requirement to insure a motor vehicle used on UK roads, the MoD (& other "Crown" agencies, I believe) do not have to, but do have to pay any expenses usually covered by insurance.

Bosniavet wrote:
I see that the majority of the comments on this story seem to bear no relation to the story itself.
Yes, we do have bottlenecks here in Southend, & yes, it would be a good idea to get them sorted. It is true that recent road projects in the borough have been delivered on time, within budget & with a lot of funding from sources other than the council tax payer. However, they have not improved traffic flow that much, & Victoria Circus is definitely worse than it was before.
Hopefully, when planning the "improvements" to the 3 A127 bottlenecks mentioned, those given the task will consider the cyclist in the same way that they will also consider pedestrians as well. Surely, cycle lanes, maybe even underpasses at some junction can be set up.
Please, can we stop all the harping on about the name of the tax that owners/drivers of motor vehicles (with notable exceptions such as zero emission vehicles) pay in order to be able to legally use their vehicles on the road? I think we all know that it is actually called Vehicle Excise Duty etc, & may even know about the abolition of "Road Tax" in the late 1930s, but it is common practice to refer to VED as "Road Tax", maybe in the same way that we erroneously refer to the Union Flag as the Union Jack, we all know what it means.
Incidently, whilst it is a legal requirement to insure a motor vehicle used on UK roads, the MoD (& other "Crown" agencies, I believe) do not have to, but do have to pay any expenses usually covered by insurance.

Ah memories of the roundabout at Banja Luka puts this into perspective!

lonestar_1 wrote:

The Southend Observer wrote:

Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:

Shoebury_Cyclist wrote: When are cyclists going to see as much investment? Sadlers Farm alone cost more than the entire yearly budget allocated to improving cycle facilities in the entire UK by Call-me-Dave.

And cyclists pay all the same taxes as everyone else, so why do we get such a raw deal? Maybe we should start withholding our council tax until SBC starts properly investing in cycle infrastructure instead of just painting a few white lines.

@Shoebury Cyclist - No you do not pay the same taxes as everyone else. You do not pay any road tax and the vast majority have no insurance and thus don't pay insurance premium taxes. Nor do you pay any of the motoring stealth taxes such as parking, no equivalent of an MoT and a fraction of VAT incurred on any related travel costs.

On top of that, a majority of cyclists disregard the laws of the land and use the pavements, at great speed and at the peril of pedestrians. That's aside from not sporting lights (another legal requirement) and disregarding traffic lights when it best suits them.

When the 2-wheeled fraternity get their house in order then they can have an equal voice in matters pertaining to road layouts. Until then, a curse on you all.

Well said "The Southend Observer" !!

Maybe you should read previous posts before commenting, I'll post this a third time for you:

There is no such thing as 'road tax'.'Road tax' was abolished in 1937. We pay VEHICLE Excise Duty, or car tax, which is a tax on engine size or CO2 emissions. It has precisely nothing to do with any 'right' to be on the road. No-one in the entire UK pays to use the roads, except on a few toll roads and bridges/tunnels.

Roads, cycle lanes, and pavements are paid for through council tax, income tax and every other tax that goes into the central government pot, all of which are also paid by cyclists. Plus 88% of cyclists also drive, so they pay all the same taxes as everyone else. There is only ONE hypothecated (google it) tax in the UK: the television licence. Every other tax goes into the central pot and is distributed as the exchequer sees fit.

Roads are free for anyone to use, that's why they are called the PUBLIC Highway. In fact pedestrians, horse riders, and cyclists have an automatic right to use roads. People in motor vehicles do not have an automatic right. They have to earn a licence to say they are competent to safely use a motor vehicle on the roads, and then they are licensed to be on the roads in a motor vehicle.

There's no point any of us complaining about how expensive it is to use our cars. For the great majority cars are a luxury, they're not a necessity, we have public transport, walking, and yes, cycling as alternatives. The simple truth is VED or car tax, and fuel duty are lifestyle taxes - just like tobacco duty and alcohol duty - and as such they are entirely avoidable.

Bosniavet wrote:
I see that the majority of the comments on this story seem to bear no relation to the story itself.
Yes, we do have bottlenecks here in Southend, & yes, it would be a good idea to get them sorted. It is true that recent road projects in the borough have been delivered on time, within budget & with a lot of funding from sources other than the council tax payer. However, they have not improved traffic flow that much, & Victoria Circus is definitely worse than it was before.
Hopefully, when planning the "improvements" to the 3 A127 bottlenecks mentioned, those given the task will consider the cyclist in the same way that they will also consider pedestrians as well. Surely, cycle lanes, maybe even underpasses at some junction can be set up.
Please, can we stop all the harping on about the name of the tax that owners/drivers of motor vehicles (with notable exceptions such as zero emission vehicles) pay in order to be able to legally use their vehicles on the road? I think we all know that it is actually called Vehicle Excise Duty etc, & may even know about the abolition of "Road Tax" in the late 1930s, but it is common practice to refer to VED as "Road Tax", maybe in the same way that we erroneously refer to the Union Flag as the Union Jack, we all know what it means.
Incidently, whilst it is a legal requirement to insure a motor vehicle used on UK roads, the MoD (& other "Crown" agencies, I believe) do not have to, but do have to pay any expenses usually covered by insurance.

Clearly people do NOT know that there is no such thing as 'road tax' and that we are not taxed for using roads. If they did there would be no comments saying 'you don't pay road tax' as if it gives them sole right to the roads.

Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:

The Southend Observer wrote:

Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:

Shoebury_Cyclist wrote: When are cyclists going to see as much investment? Sadlers Farm alone cost more than the entire yearly budget allocated to improving cycle facilities in the entire UK by Call-me-Dave.

And cyclists pay all the same taxes as everyone else, so why do we get such a raw deal? Maybe we should start withholding our council tax until SBC starts properly investing in cycle infrastructure instead of just painting a few white lines.

@Shoebury Cyclist - No you do not pay the same taxes as everyone else. You do not pay any road tax and the vast majority have no insurance and thus don't pay insurance premium taxes. Nor do you pay any of the motoring stealth taxes such as parking, no equivalent of an MoT and a fraction of VAT incurred on any related travel costs.

On top of that, a majority of cyclists disregard the laws of the land and use the pavements, at great speed and at the peril of pedestrians. That's aside from not sporting lights (another legal requirement) and disregarding traffic lights when it best suits them.

When the 2-wheeled fraternity get their house in order then they can have an equal voice in matters pertaining to road layouts. Until then, a curse on you all.

Really? Would you also say that about police cars, ambulances, fire engines, electric vehicles, very low emission vehicles, and every vehicle registered before january 1st 1973? Because none of those pay for a tax disc either.

There is no such thing as 'road tax'.'Road tax' was abolished in 1937. We pay VEHICLE Excise Duty, or car tax, which is a tax on engine size or CO2 emissions. It has precisely nothing to do with any 'right' to be on the road. No-one in the entire UK pays to use the roads, except on a few toll roads and bridges/tunnels.

Roads, cycle lanes, and pavements are paid for through council tax, income tax and every other tax that goes into the central government pot, all of which are also paid by cyclists. Plus 88% of cyclists also drive, so they pay all the same taxes as everyone else. There is only ONE hypothecated (google it) tax in the UK: the television licence. Every other tax goes into the central pot and is distributed as the exchequer sees fit.

Roads are free for anyone to use, that's why they are called the PUBLIC Highway. In fact pedestrians, horse riders, and cyclists have an automatic right to use roads. People in motor vehicles do not have an automatic right. They have to earn a licence to say they are competent to safely use a motor vehicle on the roads, and then they are licensed to be on the roads in a motor vehicle.

There's no point any of us complaining about how expensive it is to use our cars. For the great majority cars are a luxury, they're not a necessity, we have public transport, walking, and yes, cycling as alternatives. The simple truth is VED or car tax, and fuel duty are lifestyle taxes - just like tobacco duty and alcohol duty - and as such they are entirely avoidable.

What a load of tosh.

Whether the tax is called road tax or vehicle duty its a tax to allow you to drive a car on the road.

As a car being a luxury, it may be for you.

For a family of 4, where both of us work there is no practical way not to drive.

Life would be great if we all cycled everywhere, but thss is the real world and in the real world most people need to drive or use public transport and cyclists are the minority so therefore get the minority of funding.

southend_Dave wrote:

Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:

The Southend Observer wrote:

Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:

Shoebury_Cyclist wrote: When are cyclists going to see as much investment? Sadlers Farm alone cost more than the entire yearly budget allocated to improving cycle facilities in the entire UK by Call-me-Dave.

And cyclists pay all the same taxes as everyone else, so why do we get such a raw deal? Maybe we should start withholding our council tax until SBC starts properly investing in cycle infrastructure instead of just painting a few white lines.

@Shoebury Cyclist - No you do not pay the same taxes as everyone else. You do not pay any road tax and the vast majority have no insurance and thus don't pay insurance premium taxes. Nor do you pay any of the motoring stealth taxes such as parking, no equivalent of an MoT and a fraction of VAT incurred on any related travel costs.

On top of that, a majority of cyclists disregard the laws of the land and use the pavements, at great speed and at the peril of pedestrians. That's aside from not sporting lights (another legal requirement) and disregarding traffic lights when it best suits them.

When the 2-wheeled fraternity get their house in order then they can have an equal voice in matters pertaining to road layouts. Until then, a curse on you all.

Really? Would you also say that about police cars, ambulances, fire engines, electric vehicles, very low emission vehicles, and every vehicle registered before january 1st 1973? Because none of those pay for a tax disc either.

There is no such thing as 'road tax'.'Road tax' was abolished in 1937. We pay VEHICLE Excise Duty, or car tax, which is a tax on engine size or CO2 emissions. It has precisely nothing to do with any 'right' to be on the road. No-one in the entire UK pays to use the roads, except on a few toll roads and bridges/tunnels.

Roads, cycle lanes, and pavements are paid for through council tax, income tax and every other tax that goes into the central government pot, all of which are also paid by cyclists. Plus 88% of cyclists also drive, so they pay all the same taxes as everyone else. There is only ONE hypothecated (google it) tax in the UK: the television licence. Every other tax goes into the central pot and is distributed as the exchequer sees fit.

Roads are free for anyone to use, that's why they are called the PUBLIC Highway. In fact pedestrians, horse riders, and cyclists have an automatic right to use roads. People in motor vehicles do not have an automatic right. They have to earn a licence to say they are competent to safely use a motor vehicle on the roads, and then they are licensed to be on the roads in a motor vehicle.

There's no point any of us complaining about how expensive it is to use our cars. For the great majority cars are a luxury, they're not a necessity, we have public transport, walking, and yes, cycling as alternatives. The simple truth is VED or car tax, and fuel duty are lifestyle taxes - just like tobacco duty and alcohol duty - and as such they are entirely avoidable.

What a load of tosh.

Whether the tax is called road tax or vehicle duty its a tax to allow you to drive a car on the road.

As a car being a luxury, it may be for you.

For a family of 4, where both of us work there is no practical way not to drive.

Life would be great if we all cycled everywhere, but thss is the real world and in the real world most people need to drive or use public transport and cyclists are the minority so therefore get the minority of funding.

No, it's a tax to allow you to pollute, that is why it is levied on emissions or engine size.

If it was a tax to allow you to use the road then zero-emission electric vehicles, low emission vehicles etc. horses, pedestrians and cyclists would have to pay it. They don't. They're all exempt because they do not pollute.

reptile wrote:
I hate cyclists.

Why is that. Have you never ridden a bike?

Oh dear. Trolls!

kev1956in wrote:

reptile wrote:
I hate cyclists.

Why is that. Have you never ridden a bike?

Probably can't.

Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:

southend_Dave wrote:

Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:

The Southend Observer wrote:

Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:

Shoebury_Cyclist wrote: When are cyclists going to see as much investment? Sadlers Farm alone cost more than the entire yearly budget allocated to improving cycle facilities in the entire UK by Call-me-Dave.

And cyclists pay all the same taxes as everyone else, so why do we get such a raw deal? Maybe we should start withholding our council tax until SBC starts properly investing in cycle infrastructure instead of just painting a few white lines.

@Shoebury Cyclist - No you do not pay the same taxes as everyone else. You do not pay any road tax and the vast majority have no insurance and thus don't pay insurance premium taxes. Nor do you pay any of the motoring stealth taxes such as parking, no equivalent of an MoT and a fraction of VAT incurred on any related travel costs. On top of that, a majority of cyclists disregard the laws of the land and use the pavements, at great speed and at the peril of pedestrians. That's aside from not sporting lights (another legal requirement) and disregarding traffic lights when it best suits them. When the 2-wheeled fraternity get their house in order then they can have an equal voice in matters pertaining to road layouts. Until then, a curse on you all.

Really? Would you also say that about police cars, ambulances, fire engines, electric vehicles, very low emission vehicles, and every vehicle registered before january 1st 1973? Because none of those pay for a tax disc either. There is no such thing as 'road tax'.'Road tax' was abolished in 1937. We pay VEHICLE Excise Duty, or car tax, which is a tax on engine size or CO2 emissions. It has precisely nothing to do with any 'right' to be on the road. No-one in the entire UK pays to use the roads, except on a few toll roads and bridges/tunnels. Roads, cycle lanes, and pavements are paid for through council tax, income tax and every other tax that goes into the central government pot, all of which are also paid by cyclists. Plus 88% of cyclists also drive, so they pay all the same taxes as everyone else. There is only ONE hypothecated (google it) tax in the UK: the television licence. Every other tax goes into the central pot and is distributed as the exchequer sees fit. Roads are free for anyone to use, that's why they are called the PUBLIC Highway. In fact pedestrians, horse riders, and cyclists have an automatic right to use roads. People in motor vehicles do not have an automatic right. They have to earn a licence to say they are competent to safely use a motor vehicle on the roads, and then they are licensed to be on the roads in a motor vehicle. There's no point any of us complaining about how expensive it is to use our cars. For the great majority cars are a luxury, they're not a necessity, we have public transport, walking, and yes, cycling as alternatives. The simple truth is VED or car tax, and fuel duty are lifestyle taxes - just like tobacco duty and alcohol duty - and as such they are entirely avoidable.

What a load of tosh. Whether the tax is called road tax or vehicle duty its a tax to allow you to drive a car on the road. As a car being a luxury, it may be for you. For a family of 4, where both of us work there is no practical way not to drive. Life would be great if we all cycled everywhere, but thss is the real world and in the real world most people need to drive or use public transport and cyclists are the minority so therefore get the minority of funding.

No, it's a tax to allow you to pollute, that is why it is levied on emissions or engine size. If it was a tax to allow you to use the road then zero-emission electric vehicles, low emission vehicles etc. horses, pedestrians and cyclists would have to pay it. They don't. They're all exempt because they do not pollute.

So if I didn't pay it for my car I could still drive? Ergo, it's a tax that allows you to drive. If you drive a low emmission or zero emmission vehicle it is tax exempt, which means you don't have to pay to drive it. Simple.

Got to admit I dod think you may have been fishing slightly with your first tax comment - every time I see you mention tax I cringe! People call it Road Tax, no matter what its name is. It's a tax we pay to drive our vehicles - simply because it's illegal not to do so - Road Tax, VED, what's in a name?

Roads are roads and can be used by all, as long as they obey the laws. Like stopping at red lights - Sure you do that Shoebury Cyclist, but can you explain why some don't? I don't mean those where it's safe to cycle round the corner to avoid getting crushed by traffic - I mean those who cycle through no matter what, even if it's a pedrestrian crossing.

J_blond wrote:

Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:

southend_Dave wrote:

Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:

The Southend Observer wrote:

Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:

Shoebury_Cyclist wrote: When are cyclists going to see as much investment? Sadlers Farm alone cost more than the entire yearly budget allocated to improving cycle facilities in the entire UK by Call-me-Dave.

And cyclists pay all the same taxes as everyone else, so why do we get such a raw deal? Maybe we should start withholding our council tax until SBC starts properly investing in cycle infrastructure instead of just painting a few white lines.

@Shoebury Cyclist - No you do not pay the same taxes as everyone else. You do not pay any road tax and the vast majority have no insurance and thus don't pay insurance premium taxes. Nor do you pay any of the motoring stealth taxes such as parking, no equivalent of an MoT and a fraction of VAT incurred on any related travel costs. On top of that, a majority of cyclists disregard the laws of the land and use the pavements, at great speed and at the peril of pedestrians. That's aside from not sporting lights (another legal requirement) and disregarding traffic lights when it best suits them. When the 2-wheeled fraternity get their house in order then they can have an equal voice in matters pertaining to road layouts. Until then, a curse on you all.

Really? Would you also say that about police cars, ambulances, fire engines, electric vehicles, very low emission vehicles, and every vehicle registered before january 1st 1973? Because none of those pay for a tax disc either. There is no such thing as 'road tax'.'Road tax' was abolished in 1937. We pay VEHICLE Excise Duty, or car tax, which is a tax on engine size or CO2 emissions. It has precisely nothing to do with any 'right' to be on the road. No-one in the entire UK pays to use the roads, except on a few toll roads and bridges/tunnels. Roads, cycle lanes, and pavements are paid for through council tax, income tax and every other tax that goes into the central government pot, all of which are also paid by cyclists. Plus 88% of cyclists also drive, so they pay all the same taxes as everyone else. There is only ONE hypothecated (google it) tax in the UK: the television licence. Every other tax goes into the central pot and is distributed as the exchequer sees fit. Roads are free for anyone to use, that's why they are called the PUBLIC Highway. In fact pedestrians, horse riders, and cyclists have an automatic right to use roads. People in motor vehicles do not have an automatic right. They have to earn a licence to say they are competent to safely use a motor vehicle on the roads, and then they are licensed to be on the roads in a motor vehicle. There's no point any of us complaining about how expensive it is to use our cars. For the great majority cars are a luxury, they're not a necessity, we have public transport, walking, and yes, cycling as alternatives. The simple truth is VED or car tax, and fuel duty are lifestyle taxes - just like tobacco duty and alcohol duty - and as such they are entirely avoidable.

What a load of tosh. Whether the tax is called road tax or vehicle duty its a tax to allow you to drive a car on the road. As a car being a luxury, it may be for you. For a family of 4, where both of us work there is no practical way not to drive. Life would be great if we all cycled everywhere, but thss is the real world and in the real world most people need to drive or use public transport and cyclists are the minority so therefore get the minority of funding.

No, it's a tax to allow you to pollute, that is why it is levied on emissions or engine size. If it was a tax to allow you to use the road then zero-emission electric vehicles, low emission vehicles etc. horses, pedestrians and cyclists would have to pay it. They don't. They're all exempt because they do not pollute.

So if I didn't pay it for my car I could still drive? Ergo, it's a tax that allows you to drive. If you drive a low emmission or zero emmission vehicle it is tax exempt, which means you don't have to pay to drive it. Simple.

Got to admit I dod think you may have been fishing slightly with your first tax comment - every time I see you mention tax I cringe! People call it Road Tax, no matter what its name is. It's a tax we pay to drive our vehicles - simply because it's illegal not to do so - Road Tax, VED, what's in a name?

Roads are roads and can be used by all, as long as they obey the laws. Like stopping at red lights - Sure you do that Shoebury Cyclist, but can you explain why some don't? I don't mean those where it's safe to cycle round the corner to avoid getting crushed by traffic - I mean those who cycle through no matter what, even if it's a pedrestrian crossing.

It is not a tax to drive, it is a tax to pollute. That is why it is levied on CO2/km or on engine size. NO-ONE in the UK is taxed for using roads - unless that road is a toll road, bridge, or tunnel - roads are free to use.

It's quite simple, why can't you understand it?

Here:

http://ipayroadtax.c
om

And here, pay special attention the last couple of paragraphs:

http://www.standard.
co.uk/news/transport
/aa-boss-cyclisthati
ng-drivers-are-absol
ute-idiots-8389124.h
tml

As for red lights you're quite right. It is illegal to run red lights. Here's an example from yesterday, can YOU explain why they didn't stop?

http://youtu.be/4xx2
e_8ADwo

I am a car driver but in my opinion cyclists have more right to be on the road than motorists as they aren't wasting precious resources, they don't wear the roads out and they aren't damaging the environment. Also, whilst there may be a few cyclists who don't have much road sense there are also quite a few dozy car drivers around. In reality most cyclists seem to conduct themselves perfectly safely on the roads, as most car drivers do. I suspect that car drivers who complain about cyclists have smaller brains than the rest of us.

Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:

Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:
When are cyclists going to see as much investment? Sadlers Farm alone cost more than the entire yearly budget allocated to improving cycle facilities in the entire UK by Call-me-Dave.

And cyclists pay all the same taxes as everyone else, so why do we get such a raw deal? Maybe we should start withholding our council tax until SBC starts properly investing in cycle infrastructure instead of just painting a few white lines.

What type of tax are we talking about.....not road tax or even bike insurance. Also, if bikes had all the facilities in the world...............
..you still go through red traffic lights and in London cause more accidents than any other vehicle.