Should blood testing stay local? (From Echo)

What difference does it make where the blood tests are processed?

They could save extra money by moving the beancounters at Southend Hospital to the same place, and merging them with all the other hospitals, so as there is only lot of wasted money for the whole country rather than for each hospital.

I agree with keeping blood test analysis local, I also ask why no campaign to stop the Royal Mail closing our local delivery offices?

GentleGiant wrote:
What difference does it make where the blood tests are processed?

For many of the tests - routine blood sugar level and chloresterol for examples - the difference is likely to be minimal (a couple of hours longer, a small difference in the error rate, a small saving in costs).

But some blood tests require urgent results (eg for transfusions, poisoning, and probably establishing appropriate dosage levels for some particularly dangerous medications). If there is a typical 2 hour added delay to getting these test results that can lead to serious damage or death.

We have discussed this to some extent in another thread.

I wonder how long before someone comes up with the idea that, to save money, only three trips are made each day rather than four.

If Southend can save money by sending their samples to Bedford, then surely the hospitals in Bedford could save money by sending their samples to Southend.

andyh wrote:

GentleGiant wrote:
What difference does it make where the blood tests are processed?

For many of the tests - routine blood sugar level and chloresterol for examples - the difference is likely to be minimal (a couple of hours longer, a small difference in the error rate, a small saving in costs).

But some blood tests require urgent results (eg for transfusions, poisoning, and probably establishing appropriate dosage levels for some particularly dangerous medications). If there is a typical 2 hour added delay to getting these test results that can lead to serious damage or death.

We have discussed this to some extent in another thread.

I think it is outrageous that this is even being considered!

People who ask what difference it will make would soon understand the difference if they, or a loved one, are in a life-and-death situation where fast blood analysis is essential.

Thanks to the Echo for highlighting what is being proposed, all in the name of saving money. I don't somehow think the great, the good, the rich and the famous would be told it was a good idea to have the facility for their blood to be analysed quickly in an emergency taken away!

All in it together? Yeah right!!

Localism is a must it is a con trick for government to pretend it is for improvement and efficiency.

That is a total lie it is to save more which produces bad service.

So people would rather waste money than save it?

I am quite sure that there would be local option available in the case of an emergency - but for the vast majority of blood tests an extra day is not going to make any difference.

Of course we all live in a 'want it now' society, where people demand instant everything.

I would much rather police stations be open locally for example over local blood processing.

the Trust has moved the blood testing before now, it resulted in samples being damaged, lost, and compromised, Its not just the loss of the pathology dept, it would also mean a loss of the phlebotomy services the public receive. im sure some would not be so offhanded about its loss when it comes to them having a blood test, with results that are needed for medication or treatment.Far from being a want it now society, we are in fact, a need it now society.

Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:
I agree with keeping blood test analysis local, I also ask why no campaign to stop the Royal Mail closing our local delivery offices?

it's not as emotive as blood tests, probably

James Dudderidge has said absolutly nothing.Is he saying he will oppose it?
No,he will suport the party line,a spineless person.Bring back Teddy Taylor,at least he didnt just roll over.

Thank you Echo for championing this very important and worthy issue. If unchallenged & successful the moving of vital services like this will only open the door to other ill thought out & non consulted cost saving ventures.

I dread to think what detrimental impact this may have on the future well being of those who depend on the very efficient and well managed services currently being offered.

I would like to see the risk assessments, feasibility studies and consultation study reports for this project, if there are any!

If this is allowed to proceed without being challenged then someone might think it's acceptable to close down & relocate other services like A&E in Basildon and Maternity in Southend.

Im a phlebotomist and i think its important that the public understand what the headline of this article is WRONG.... The blood testing itself is and will still be done at the hospital or in the community, but its the TESTING of these bloods in a lab that will be differant.
I feel very strongly in the fact that the bloods should continue to be tested at southend and basildon hospital to maintane patient care. Almost every patient asks after there blood test how long it will be before there GP gets there results, at the moment we can safely say 3-4 working days, however if the bloods get sent to Bedfordshire this will take longer. At the moment blood tests are collected every hour & half by a couier service, blood has a time scale that it needs to be in the lab by and surely this will be hampered if it needs to travel to far away.....

GentleGiant wrote:
What difference does it make where the blood tests are processed?

Lots...
Off the top of my head and having worked at Southend Pathology for many years...
1) The quicker the turnaround time of blood tests results for GPs, the better for the patients(quicker diagnosis). At Southend Pathology the vast majority of GP blood test results are returned electronically to the GPs the very same day. The turnaround time from Bedford is bound to be a lot longer.
2) Local GPs rely on JOINED-UP healthcare services of which blood tests are a significant part.
3) Local GPs also rely on expert interpretations of test results by Pathology consultants to help them treat and diagnose their patients. The Southend consultants will likely not have access to the test resutls analysed at Bedford...
Hope that helps

GentleGiant wrote:
So people would rather waste money than save it?

I am quite sure that there would be local option available in the case of an emergency - but for the vast majority of blood tests an extra day is not going to make any difference.

Of course we all live in a 'want it now' society, where people demand instant everything.

I would much rather police stations be open locally for example over local blood processing.

"I am quite sure that there would be local option available ..."
Not likely - If the sample analysis is moved to Bedford then the laboratories at Southend and Basildon hospitals will be reduced considerably (the GP work provides about 50% of Pathology's income) and may only be able to offer a reduced 'menu' of tests relevant to emergency cases. There are many more 'non-emergency' tests that are crucial to the care of many thousands of South Essex patients who are chronically ill.

uncleswede wrote:

GentleGiant wrote:
What difference does it make where the blood tests are processed?

Lots...
Off the top of my head and having worked at Southend Pathology for many years...
1) The quicker the turnaround time of blood tests results for GPs, the better for the patients(quicker diagnosis). At Southend Pathology the vast majority of GP blood test results are returned electronically to the GPs the very same day. The turnaround time from Bedford is bound to be a lot longer.
2) Local GPs rely on JOINED-UP healthcare services of which blood tests are a significant part.
3) Local GPs also rely on expert interpretations of test results by Pathology consultants to help them treat and diagnose their patients. The Southend consultants will likely not have access to the test resutls analysed at Bedford...
Hope that helps

Could not be said any better - spot on!

The earlier comment from a phlebotomist is not strictly true - blood testing will only be done at Southend and Basildon for inpatients and A&E. All GP patients may still have their blood taken locally but then it will be driven 85 miles to be tested which seems pointless when there is a fully functioning and competent lab within a few miles away from a blood clinic!
No routine blood test takes more than a few hours to complete and its a myth it takes several working days when all results are electronic between the local hospitals and GP surgeries, a network that has taken years to perfect - can Bedford really promise something similar?! How will results be similar when they use different equipment?
I bet lots of unwell patients, even GPs, knowing they will potentially have to wait days for an important blood result will end up going to A&E instead to get it done quicker. Has anyone considered the impact of this????

This would be awful. Some of us need our results the same day

It's also important to realise that it's not just blood tests that are going to be travelling to Bedford.

All microbiology tests done at your GPs will also be travelling the distance. Tests such as urinalysis, wound swabs and faeces, all of which are reliant on a quick initial analysts in order to deliver accurate results.

Another point to consider is that will money really be saved when the sites computer systems do not match up? For example, a patient has a test done at his GP surgery, gets worse and goes to A&E. At present time that sample be it blood, urine or any other will be in the hospital setting and the A&E dept can access the results and give a diagnosis. If the sample has not even reached its Bedford destination the hospital will certainly repeat the sample, therefore doubling the work load. It would only take a small percent of these cases to cancel out any savings that may be made.

Dr Husselbee is not fully accurate with his statement that Blood Tests were sent to Wales in the 1990's - Wales had a specific specialist blood centre for certain tests.

1) With the expansion of the Thames Gateway and the new Port traffic this alone makes this idea a non starter.

2) This will not save money due to travelling costs.

3) If one shipment goes wrong the consequences and logistics of putting it right and re-testing would be horrendous.

4) Bringing this out just before christmas is a sick trick.

This is OUR Hospital we are talking about. OUR money that goes into this Hospital.

Make time everyone and do not fall into the trap of this being put out when we are all busy at Christmas. WRITE, RING make noises. this must NOT happen.

To dismantle the Pathology service will be like ripping the heart out of Southend and Basildon Hospitals. The Path labs are vital and other hospital services such as A&E and ITU could be seriously undermined.

The whole idea is ludicrous especially as the local Pathology labs have recently undergone major upgrades of equipment and have state of the art analysers and an IT system that works! The so -called winners of the bid do not have the infrastructure ready.
It will be private labs and their shareholders who will cream off the supposed savings made. NHS privatisation by the back door....

Saisho wrote:
To dismantle the Pathology service will be like ripping the heart out of Southend and Basildon Hospitals. The Path labs are vital and other hospital services such as A&E and ITU could be seriously undermined.

The whole idea is ludicrous especially as the local Pathology labs have recently undergone major upgrades of equipment and have state of the art analysers and an IT system that works! The so -called winners of the bid do not have the infrastructure ready.
It will be private labs and their shareholders who will cream off the supposed savings made. NHS privatisation by the back door....

Absolutely. This "idea" sure as hell isn't for the benefit of the inhabitants of South Essex!

Whatever happened to "green" anyway?? I thought we were all being urged to cut down use of cars so just on that point alone how is this supposed to stand up, with vans or whatever constantly trundling back and forth to Harlow and Bedford. Oh silly me, I see.... the "green" issue wouldn't be mentioned until they want to cut down the service, it would give them a good excuse.

Money, money, money...what does it matter if a few nobody plebs might die? At least there will be nice fat bonuses in it for the bloated pleutocrats, particularly those most adept in the art of "spin" who must be waiting to break out the bottles of Bolly!

Uncleswede and Rayleighgirl are correct in what they say.
Yes and some GPs did elect to send their patient's blood tests to Wales in the 1990s. However they realised the error of their ways and returned to the laboratory at Southend for a better service.

There seems to be a deafening silence from all the local GPs and hospital consultants. They can't all, with the exception of Dr Bray, seriously believe that this is good for their patients?
Can the Echo not canvas their opinions?

This government has a great record of breaking things that are not broken. Moving all the blood testing services to one place make it right for privatisation. That is the agenda here.

lightman45 wrote:
This government has a great record of breaking things that are not broken. Moving all the blood testing services to one place make it right for privatisation. That is the agenda here.

Absolutely. A private 'partner' is only a step away.

The mystifying thing is that private bids were not allowed (Southend and Basildon also put in a bid) but Bedford is part of Guys and St Thomas who already have a private investor.

All bids are equal but some bids are more equal than others....

It's so frustrating that moving the Pathology Service so many miles away is even being considered. The labs provide an excellent service, the majority of results are ready within hours and clinical support is offered to the GP's if they require it. And as mentioned before, it isn't just bloods, it's almost any sample that you could care to mention that is going to be travelling all the way to Bedford. Years ago, my surgery used to transport samples up to Wales, you'd have to wait days for the results and eventually it was decided that this didn't work and I can't see that it will work now. And I also think more people will visit the A/E department so they won't have to wait so long for results. Again, as has already been mentioned, this is just another step towards the breakdown of the NHS. It's not for the patient's benefit, or to save money, the only people who will benefit from this, are those who are pushing for the privatisation of the National Health Service. Shame on them.

What happens when a quarter of an inch of snow falls? The end result is total grid-lock so how are bloods(samples/whate
ver) then going to be transported to Bedford in a timely manner?? Leave it at Southend and stop trying to fix things that are not broken!

Hands up who's got business interests that will profit from a privatised NHS:

http://img.photobuck
et.com/albums/v223/M
initar1/NHSgov.jpg

rayleighgirl wrote:

lightman45 wrote:
This government has a great record of breaking things that are not broken. Moving all the blood testing services to one place make it right for privatisation. That is the agenda here.

Absolutely. A private 'partner' is only a step away.

The mystifying thing is that private bids were not allowed (Southend and Basildon also put in a bid) but Bedford is part of Guys and St Thomas who already have a private investor.

All bids are equal but some bids are more equal than others....

That is very interesting. We already know they are determined to break up the (Safe in our hands) NHS.

You seem to have spotted yet another "Privatisation by the back door" attempt. Let us hope that many, many more people become alert to the real programme this mob have in place and join with the ever-growing number of people who demand honesty.

Saw a brand new white Ferrari on its way north, on trade plates, Monday. It is to be a little something for Christmas for one lucky person. They have never had it so good!

My daughters life was saved by a blood test at SGH. She had acute lyphoblastic leukaemia & was diagnosed within 2 hours of bloods being taken. She was transferred to GOSH for treatment. I was told she could have died within 24 hours.
I wonder how many people will not be as lucky as we were?

Whatever idiot thought this one up should resign and thereby make an instant contribution to the health service finances.
Mr Angry of Leigh.

Thank you to the echo for high lighting this dangerous plot.

It doesn't take a scientist ( im an accountant ) to realise that costs per sample processed at the local hospitals basildon/southend will now be considerably higher (for ae, inpatient work etc) than those in comparison to bedford where the propossed GP work will be going., where costs per sample will be lower.

Thus i understand that bedford has a private partner circo, who will be rubbing there hands together and have already annouced in that they are anticipating big profits from this venture.

Thus basildon/southend hospitals the result will be further cutbacks/no money available, and other services will be effectively hammered by this, renal clinics, chemo units list will go on all services will have the knock on effects,

I also understand from a previous post that bids were not suppose to be allowed from private firms, yet bedford has a private investor (circo).

This news is very worrying for everyone who depends on quick accurate testing for medical intervention. My dad has just been recently diagnosed with cancer and will need to have regular blood tests in the near future, i will not hesitate now to goto AE for testing knowing that if i went to the GP his blood ridiculously will have to travel throughout Essex to the herts border then around all the M25 to bedforshire what an absolute joke!

Yet this will only have a huge impact on an already swamped AE service, i wouldn't blame anyone for that as our health is being taken for granted by a strategic organisation (East Of England ) made up of people who haven't got no sense of the health industry.

Yet spokes people for this quango organisation say it will bring benefits of expert testing and improve services. How wrong they are; already tests are processed and results sent out within hours of blood taken. Tests are ordered by computer systems and instantly viewable on computers via our GP's. I also understand that the pathology department has installed the latest of technologies/equipme
nt and spent considerable money. How can there be any improvements to what is a great service.

Just shocking !!

The Echo campaign is great but what we really need is a petition we can put our names to. Come on Echo, or is there someone else out there with the ability to organise this!

RoyS
Benfleet

What we need is a Richard Branson - he managed to overturn the railway fiasco when things weren't quite above board.

Sadly us lowly NHS staff don't have his resources :-(

GentleGiant wrote:
What difference does it make where the blood tests are processed?

If you new anything about how our bodies worked you would not be asking this question!

Sometimes life or death decisions need to be made based on a simple blood test!

Some medical records are managed in India so Bedford is not too far off ... until a vehicle breaks down, we get the wrong type of snow, the blood is of no use on arrival because it has deteriorated in transit, an urgent result is required in ten minutes, staff go off sick so no driver available ... it beggars belief but nothing in the is crappy NHS system would surprise me any more.

Next we will here of RTA victims that need surgery on different parts of their body and staff will have dismember the patient to allow each part of the body to be sent to a specialised district ... daft thought I know, but watch this space!

What happened to the NHS quote 'Your NHS ... your Choice'?

Leave our blood services where they are ... hands off!