Southend Council to target posties in retaliation for office closures?

Echo: Royal Mail Royal Mail

FURIOUS councillors want to ban posties from chaining their trolleys to fences and slap parking tickets on their vans in retaliation for the closure of five delivery offices.

The outlandish proposals have been put forward by members of Southend Council’s Independent group after Royal Mail announced it would shut bases in Rochford, Leigh, Shoebury, Canewdon and Great Wakering.

The move has been met with outrage by residents, who face a lengthy trek to the company’s main depot in Short Street, Southend, when the controversial closures go ahead next year.

But two councillors have now advocated taking retaliatory action by refusing to allow Royal Mail to tie mail trolleys to public fences or lamp posts, and cancelling the blind eye currently shown to vans parked on yellow lines.

In a letter to Rob Tinlin, the council’s chief executive, Independent councillor Mike Assenheim reiterated previous suggestions made by fellow Independent Steve Aylen.

He said: “The administration should stand fast with the public and inform Royal Mail that they are not prepared to cooperate in future in respect of Royal Mail’s activities within the borough.

“This move might go some way to redress what they are doing to the community and help to change their minds about closures.

“It might sound harsh, but I feel it is the only way to stop Royal Mail riding roughshod over the community.”

Royal Mail wants to close the delivery offices, which allow residents pick up parcels which could not be delivered because they were out, to cut costs.

It says all staff will be relocated and residents will still be given a number of options about how they want their packages delivered.

Residents in Great Wakering and Canewdon will still be able to collect their parcels from the villages’ post offices.

However, the company refused to launch a public consultation and infuriated Southend Council chiefs by agreeing to a meeting and then revealing it had already made up its mind about the closures.

Earlier this month, James Duddridge, the Tory MP for Rochford and Southend East, branded the way Royal Mail had handled the situation “appalling”.

A spokesman for Royal Mail refused to comment on Mr Assenheim’s suggestions, but said “modernising” the company was essential.

He added: “These relocations are a commercial business decision.

“Royal Mail does issue information to stakeholders and all customers before any changes to our mail operation take place.

“We met with Southend Council earlier this month to keep them informed of our plans and we have written to other stakeholders in this area. We will be writing to customers and stakeholders four to six weeks prior to any changes happening.”

Comments (40)

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1:07pm Tue 1 Jan 13

Carnabackable says...

That's going to help a lot, all the post office will do, is slap a surcharge on certain delivery locations, such as where ther are high levels of crime, where past problems with postage theft has been recorded etc.
That's going to help a lot, all the post office will do, is slap a surcharge on certain delivery locations, such as where ther are high levels of crime, where past problems with postage theft has been recorded etc. Carnabackable
  • Score: 0

1:41pm Tue 1 Jan 13

Max Impact says...

Headline screams "Southend council to target posties" when you read the story it is about a letter just two independents have sent...

Very misleading headline, that other council members might object too, as they might not agree with the actions these two want to adopt.

Wonder if they sent the letter through the post
Headline screams "Southend council to target posties" when you read the story it is about a letter just two independents have sent... Very misleading headline, that other council members might object too, as they might not agree with the actions these two want to adopt. Wonder if they sent the letter through the post Max Impact
  • Score: 0

2:08pm Tue 1 Jan 13

Shoebury_Cyclist says...

It's a good idea. If the Royal Mail wants to behave like a privatised company then it should be subjected to the same rules as private companies.

They have removed a service from me so I have no sympathy for them at all.
It's a good idea. If the Royal Mail wants to behave like a privatised company then it should be subjected to the same rules as private companies. They have removed a service from me so I have no sympathy for them at all. Shoebury_Cyclist
  • Score: 0

2:29pm Tue 1 Jan 13

Max Impact says...

Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:
It's a good idea. If the Royal Mail wants to behave like a privatised company then it should be subjected to the same rules as private companies.

They have removed a service from me so I have no sympathy for them at all.
So...

Your waiting at home for a parcel to be delivered, you wait and you wait and you wait... Your parcel does not arrive you phone Royal mail in a fit of rage to be tole...

The van was clamped who do you find fault with.

Royal Mail

or

SBC for bringing in the clamp Royal Mail vans.

You have alive of bike riding why not get on the saddle and ride to Short Street.

I live a short drive from Short Street so as long as they don't close that facility I'm happy.


Happy New Year my friend and sparing partner.
[quote][p][bold]Shoebury_Cyclist[/bold] wrote: It's a good idea. If the Royal Mail wants to behave like a privatised company then it should be subjected to the same rules as private companies. They have removed a service from me so I have no sympathy for them at all.[/p][/quote]So... Your waiting at home for a parcel to be delivered, you wait and you wait and you wait... Your parcel does not arrive you phone Royal mail in a fit of rage to be tole... The van was clamped who do you find fault with. Royal Mail or SBC for bringing in the clamp Royal Mail vans. You have alive of bike riding why not get on the saddle and ride to Short Street. I live a short drive from Short Street so as long as they don't close that facility I'm happy. Happy New Year my friend and sparing partner. Max Impact
  • Score: 0

2:44pm Tue 1 Jan 13

Eric Whim says...

How is that going to benefit anyone other than the Council Ale and Pies Club fund?

It seems a bit unfair targeting the postmen/women themselves as I doubt very much if it was their decision to shut the Delivery Offices.
How is that going to benefit anyone other than the Council Ale and Pies Club fund? It seems a bit unfair targeting the postmen/women themselves as I doubt very much if it was their decision to shut the Delivery Offices. Eric Whim
  • Score: 0

2:54pm Tue 1 Jan 13

Keptquiettillnow says...

Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:
It's a good idea. If the Royal Mail wants to behave like a privatised company then it should be subjected to the same rules as private companies.

They have removed a service from me so I have no sympathy for them at all.
I agree with that, its unfair on the competition.
Mind you its the Indies creating the fuss, who will soon get back into the Tory line once someone has a word, lol.
[quote][p][bold]Shoebury_Cyclist[/bold] wrote: It's a good idea. If the Royal Mail wants to behave like a privatised company then it should be subjected to the same rules as private companies. They have removed a service from me so I have no sympathy for them at all.[/p][/quote]I agree with that, its unfair on the competition. Mind you its the Indies creating the fuss, who will soon get back into the Tory line once someone has a word, lol. Keptquiettillnow
  • Score: 0

3:44pm Tue 1 Jan 13

Sensible of Leigh says...

Once again, it must happen several times a week, the Echo has a headline which is totally at odds with the actual story. Two independents (Tory in all but name) hardly constitutes Southend Council.

Of course the Post Office is acting like a commercial concern, it is required to by this Government as it prepares for privitaisation. Incidentally I have always found parking near the Leigh sorting office a real problem and will find it so much easier when I have to go to Short Street. But then, finding an improvement in a service isn't considered newsworthy!!
Once again, it must happen several times a week, the Echo has a headline which is totally at odds with the actual story. Two independents (Tory in all but name) hardly constitutes Southend Council. Of course the Post Office is acting like a commercial concern, it is required to by this Government as it prepares for privitaisation. Incidentally I have always found parking near the Leigh sorting office a real problem and will find it so much easier when I have to go to Short Street. But then, finding an improvement in a service isn't considered newsworthy!! Sensible of Leigh
  • Score: 0

4:05pm Tue 1 Jan 13

reptile says...

Get less pay more, whats new?
Get less pay more, whats new? reptile
  • Score: 0

4:20pm Tue 1 Jan 13

shallotman says...

About time these two grow up.
About time these two grow up. shallotman
  • Score: 0

6:19pm Tue 1 Jan 13

Nebs says...

If these council members believe that retaliation is acceptable, then what action do they propose for the designer of the patio from hell.
If these council members believe that retaliation is acceptable, then what action do they propose for the designer of the patio from hell. Nebs
  • Score: 0

6:33pm Tue 1 Jan 13

A.I.K. says...

Trolleys wont be off use (in use) as posties will be using shared vans and those large trolleys/bikes wont be used anymore anyway so its a non-story.
Trolleys wont be off use (in use) as posties will be using shared vans and those large trolleys/bikes wont be used anymore anyway so its a non-story. A.I.K.
  • Score: 0

10:39pm Tue 1 Jan 13

_champagne2 says...

Brilliant idea SBC - NOT - what about all the services you have cut and jobs too - brainless fools whoever thought of this. To ticket Royal Mail workers whilst they are trying to do their jobs is senseless whatever the rest of us think about the change this idea is not going to help the situation only SBC coffers
Brilliant idea SBC - NOT - what about all the services you have cut and jobs too - brainless fools whoever thought of this. To ticket Royal Mail workers whilst they are trying to do their jobs is senseless whatever the rest of us think about the change this idea is not going to help the situation only SBC coffers _champagne2
  • Score: 0

11:00pm Tue 1 Jan 13

Max Impact says...

_champagne2 wrote:
Brilliant idea SBC - NOT - what about all the services you have cut and jobs too - brainless fools whoever thought of this. To ticket Royal Mail workers whilst they are trying to do their jobs is senseless whatever the rest of us think about the change this idea is not going to help the situation only SBC coffers
READ the story again, it is just two INDEPENDENTS that want to start this ticketing of Royal Mail vans and NOT repeat NOT SBC.

Think you need to lay off the champagne!
[quote][p][bold]_champagne2[/bold] wrote: Brilliant idea SBC - NOT - what about all the services you have cut and jobs too - brainless fools whoever thought of this. To ticket Royal Mail workers whilst they are trying to do their jobs is senseless whatever the rest of us think about the change this idea is not going to help the situation only SBC coffers[/p][/quote]READ the story again, it is just two INDEPENDENTS that want to start this ticketing of Royal Mail vans and NOT repeat NOT SBC. Think you need to lay off the champagne! Max Impact
  • Score: 0

1:00am Wed 2 Jan 13

Greatscot1777 says...

Nebs wrote:
If these council members believe that retaliation is acceptable, then what action do they propose for the designer of the patio from hell.
The patio from hell might be turned into an overflow car park for the short street sorting office.... but seriously, centralisation of parcel collections will introduce more congestion in an area already prone to hold ups. On environmental grounds creating longer and otherwise necessary journeys is damaging. Let alone the waste of time for folk driving into the centre of Southend from around the borough and beyond.

The best retaliation SBC could take would be to use private companies and local enterprises to deliver their mail and parcels and do their best to encourage all residents to seek an alternative to the Post Office including pushing for more online services generally. Boycot the Post Office until they realise they owe a service to customers in exchange for their state monopoly for letter deliveries.
[quote][p][bold]Nebs[/bold] wrote: If these council members believe that retaliation is acceptable, then what action do they propose for the designer of the patio from hell.[/p][/quote]The patio from hell might be turned into an overflow car park for the short street sorting office.... but seriously, centralisation of parcel collections will introduce more congestion in an area already prone to hold ups. On environmental grounds creating longer and otherwise necessary journeys is damaging. Let alone the waste of time for folk driving into the centre of Southend from around the borough and beyond. The best retaliation SBC could take would be to use private companies and local enterprises to deliver their mail and parcels and do their best to encourage all residents to seek an alternative to the Post Office including pushing for more online services generally. Boycot the Post Office until they realise they owe a service to customers in exchange for their state monopoly for letter deliveries. Greatscot1777
  • Score: 0

1:47am Wed 2 Jan 13

Brunning999 says...

They never used to have vans so why do they have about 30 now at the Benfleet office, I fear they are gearing up for a complete private postal service, with the normal attitude of many of the other large companies, call centre's in India and couldn't care a less attitude like BT, Orange, TalkTalk, Santander all of which like to pretend how good they are with stupid adverts plus many others that do not give a fig!!
They never used to have vans so why do they have about 30 now at the Benfleet office, I fear they are gearing up for a complete private postal service, with the normal attitude of many of the other large companies, call centre's in India and couldn't care a less attitude like BT, Orange, TalkTalk, Santander all of which like to pretend how good they are with stupid adverts plus many others that do not give a fig!! Brunning999
  • Score: 0

1:47am Wed 2 Jan 13

Brunning999 says...

They never used to have vans so why do they have about 30 now at the Benfleet office, I fear they are gearing up for a complete private postal service, with the normal attitude of many of the other large companies, call centre's in India and couldn't care a less attitude like BT, Orange, TalkTalk, Santander all of which like to pretend how good they are with stupid adverts plus many others that do not give a fig!!
They never used to have vans so why do they have about 30 now at the Benfleet office, I fear they are gearing up for a complete private postal service, with the normal attitude of many of the other large companies, call centre's in India and couldn't care a less attitude like BT, Orange, TalkTalk, Santander all of which like to pretend how good they are with stupid adverts plus many others that do not give a fig!! Brunning999
  • Score: 0

7:57am Wed 2 Jan 13

Shoebury_Cyclist says...

Max Impact wrote:
Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:
It's a good idea. If the Royal Mail wants to behave like a privatised company then it should be subjected to the same rules as private companies.

They have removed a service from me so I have no sympathy for them at all.
So...

Your waiting at home for a parcel to be delivered, you wait and you wait and you wait... Your parcel does not arrive you phone Royal mail in a fit of rage to be tole...

The van was clamped who do you find fault with.

Royal Mail

or

SBC for bringing in the clamp Royal Mail vans.

You have alive of bike riding why not get on the saddle and ride to Short Street.

I live a short drive from Short Street so as long as they don't close that facility I'm happy.


Happy New Year my friend and sparing partner.
I live less than a minute walk from George Street sorting office.

Now I'll have an eight-mile round trip to Short Street, into the busiest, most traffic laden part of Southend.

That is not an improvement in service, not even in your fevered Tory imagination.
[quote][p][bold]Max Impact[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Shoebury_Cyclist[/bold] wrote: It's a good idea. If the Royal Mail wants to behave like a privatised company then it should be subjected to the same rules as private companies. They have removed a service from me so I have no sympathy for them at all.[/p][/quote]So... Your waiting at home for a parcel to be delivered, you wait and you wait and you wait... Your parcel does not arrive you phone Royal mail in a fit of rage to be tole... The van was clamped who do you find fault with. Royal Mail or SBC for bringing in the clamp Royal Mail vans. You have alive of bike riding why not get on the saddle and ride to Short Street. I live a short drive from Short Street so as long as they don't close that facility I'm happy. Happy New Year my friend and sparing partner.[/p][/quote]I live less than a minute walk from George Street sorting office. Now I'll have an eight-mile round trip to Short Street, into the busiest, most traffic laden part of Southend. That is not an improvement in service, not even in your fevered Tory imagination. Shoebury_Cyclist
  • Score: 0

10:21am Wed 2 Jan 13

Liam Nam says...

2 faced or what...
http://www.southends
tandard.co.uk/news/8
931981.Tax_bills_go_
on_100_mile_trip_to_
reach_our_doors
2 faced or what... http://www.southends tandard.co.uk/news/8 931981.Tax_bills_go_ on_100_mile_trip_to_ reach_our_doors Liam Nam
  • Score: 0

10:37am Wed 2 Jan 13

Broadwaywatch says...

Max Impact wrote:
Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:
It's a good idea. If the Royal Mail wants to behave like a privatised company then it should be subjected to the same rules as private companies.

They have removed a service from me so I have no sympathy for them at all.
So...

Your waiting at home for a parcel to be delivered, you wait and you wait and you wait... Your parcel does not arrive you phone Royal mail in a fit of rage to be tole...

The van was clamped who do you find fault with.

Royal Mail

or

SBC for bringing in the clamp Royal Mail vans.

You have alive of bike riding why not get on the saddle and ride to Short Street.

I live a short drive from Short Street so as long as they don't close that facility I'm happy.


Happy New Year my friend and sparing partner.
I thought you claimed to live Mendip Cresent......hardly a a short drive from Short Street. I see you have started the New Year well by thinking of only yourself
[quote][p][bold]Max Impact[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Shoebury_Cyclist[/bold] wrote: It's a good idea. If the Royal Mail wants to behave like a privatised company then it should be subjected to the same rules as private companies. They have removed a service from me so I have no sympathy for them at all.[/p][/quote]So... Your waiting at home for a parcel to be delivered, you wait and you wait and you wait... Your parcel does not arrive you phone Royal mail in a fit of rage to be tole... The van was clamped who do you find fault with. Royal Mail or SBC for bringing in the clamp Royal Mail vans. You have alive of bike riding why not get on the saddle and ride to Short Street. I live a short drive from Short Street so as long as they don't close that facility I'm happy. Happy New Year my friend and sparing partner.[/p][/quote]I thought you claimed to live Mendip Cresent......hardly a a short drive from Short Street. I see you have started the New Year well by thinking of only yourself Broadwaywatch
  • Score: 0

10:42am Wed 2 Jan 13

Beth the original one says...

Max Impact wrote:
Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:
It's a good idea. If the Royal Mail wants to behave like a privatised company then it should be subjected to the same rules as private companies.

They have removed a service from me so I have no sympathy for them at all.
So...

Your waiting at home for a parcel to be delivered, you wait and you wait and you wait... Your parcel does not arrive you phone Royal mail in a fit of rage to be tole...

The van was clamped who do you find fault with.

Royal Mail

or

SBC for bringing in the clamp Royal Mail vans.

You have alive of bike riding why not get on the saddle and ride to Short Street.

I live a short drive from Short Street so as long as they don't close that facility I'm happy.


Happy New Year my friend and sparing partner.
blinking heck, i find myself on the side of southend cyclist. Thanks Max i am directly affected by this, living in rochford, my sorting office is closing and posties regularly cant be bothered to bring parcels to my home and choose to leave a card, saying i wasnt in when i have been and left parcel at sorting office. and with your "doesnt affect me" attitude a lot more will close. My nearest sorting office being short street, who as for you is only a short distance from you. Lets hope that closes soon too

Just because something doesnt affect you NOW, doesnt mean it wont in the future.
[quote][p][bold]Max Impact[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Shoebury_Cyclist[/bold] wrote: It's a good idea. If the Royal Mail wants to behave like a privatised company then it should be subjected to the same rules as private companies. They have removed a service from me so I have no sympathy for them at all.[/p][/quote]So... Your waiting at home for a parcel to be delivered, you wait and you wait and you wait... Your parcel does not arrive you phone Royal mail in a fit of rage to be tole... The van was clamped who do you find fault with. Royal Mail or SBC for bringing in the clamp Royal Mail vans. You have alive of bike riding why not get on the saddle and ride to Short Street. I live a short drive from Short Street so as long as they don't close that facility I'm happy. Happy New Year my friend and sparing partner.[/p][/quote]blinking heck, i find myself on the side of southend cyclist. Thanks Max i am directly affected by this, living in rochford, my sorting office is closing and posties regularly cant be bothered to bring parcels to my home and choose to leave a card, saying i wasnt in when i have been and left parcel at sorting office. and with your "doesnt affect me" attitude a lot more will close. My nearest sorting office being short street, who as for you is only a short distance from you. Lets hope that closes soon too Just because something doesnt affect you NOW, doesnt mean it wont in the future. Beth the original one
  • Score: 0

10:46am Wed 2 Jan 13

fredfoot says...

Beth the original one wrote:
Max Impact wrote:
Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:
It's a good idea. If the Royal Mail wants to behave like a privatised company then it should be subjected to the same rules as private companies.

They have removed a service from me so I have no sympathy for them at all.
So...

Your waiting at home for a parcel to be delivered, you wait and you wait and you wait... Your parcel does not arrive you phone Royal mail in a fit of rage to be tole...

The van was clamped who do you find fault with.

Royal Mail

or

SBC for bringing in the clamp Royal Mail vans.

You have alive of bike riding why not get on the saddle and ride to Short Street.

I live a short drive from Short Street so as long as they don't close that facility I'm happy.


Happy New Year my friend and sparing partner.
blinking heck, i find myself on the side of southend cyclist. Thanks Max i am directly affected by this, living in rochford, my sorting office is closing and posties regularly cant be bothered to bring parcels to my home and choose to leave a card, saying i wasnt in when i have been and left parcel at sorting office. and with your "doesnt affect me" attitude a lot more will close. My nearest sorting office being short street, who as for you is only a short distance from you. Lets hope that closes soon too

Just because something doesnt affect you NOW, doesnt mean it wont in the future.
Short Street was due to close at one time to make way for a super Tesco store I don't think this will happen now but don't be too sure.
[quote][p][bold]Beth the original one[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Max Impact[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Shoebury_Cyclist[/bold] wrote: It's a good idea. If the Royal Mail wants to behave like a privatised company then it should be subjected to the same rules as private companies. They have removed a service from me so I have no sympathy for them at all.[/p][/quote]So... Your waiting at home for a parcel to be delivered, you wait and you wait and you wait... Your parcel does not arrive you phone Royal mail in a fit of rage to be tole... The van was clamped who do you find fault with. Royal Mail or SBC for bringing in the clamp Royal Mail vans. You have alive of bike riding why not get on the saddle and ride to Short Street. I live a short drive from Short Street so as long as they don't close that facility I'm happy. Happy New Year my friend and sparing partner.[/p][/quote]blinking heck, i find myself on the side of southend cyclist. Thanks Max i am directly affected by this, living in rochford, my sorting office is closing and posties regularly cant be bothered to bring parcels to my home and choose to leave a card, saying i wasnt in when i have been and left parcel at sorting office. and with your "doesnt affect me" attitude a lot more will close. My nearest sorting office being short street, who as for you is only a short distance from you. Lets hope that closes soon too Just because something doesnt affect you NOW, doesnt mean it wont in the future.[/p][/quote]Short Street was due to close at one time to make way for a super Tesco store I don't think this will happen now but don't be too sure. fredfoot
  • Score: 0

12:52pm Wed 2 Jan 13

Soouthchurch59 says...

The only thing worth noting from this story is that; if one purchases an ex Royal Mail van.... One can then park, anywhere one pleases!
The only thing worth noting from this story is that; if one purchases an ex Royal Mail van.... One can then park, anywhere one pleases! Soouthchurch59
  • Score: 0

1:27pm Wed 2 Jan 13

reece123 says...

If they get caught by the spy car the post office people could just be a***holes and not deliver the fin to them selves
If they get caught by the spy car the post office people could just be a***holes and not deliver the fin to them selves reece123
  • Score: 0

1:37pm Wed 2 Jan 13

TrueBlueTerrier says...

Its a bad idea as its the Posties, who are fighting this move, that will have to pay any fines.

Royal Mail will NOT be affected in anyway, except that it will take longer to make the deliveries.

Good to see elected officials showing a complete understanding of the subject they are commenting on.... NOT.
Its a bad idea as its the Posties, who are fighting this move, that will have to pay any fines. Royal Mail will NOT be affected in anyway, except that it will take longer to make the deliveries. Good to see elected officials showing a complete understanding of the subject they are commenting on.... NOT. TrueBlueTerrier
  • Score: 0

1:37pm Wed 2 Jan 13

TrueBlueTerrier says...

Its a bad idea as its the Posties, who are fighting this move, that will have to pay any fines.

Royal Mail will NOT be affected in anyway, except that it will take longer to make the deliveries.

Good to see elected officials showing a complete understanding of the subject they are commenting on.... NOT.
Its a bad idea as its the Posties, who are fighting this move, that will have to pay any fines. Royal Mail will NOT be affected in anyway, except that it will take longer to make the deliveries. Good to see elected officials showing a complete understanding of the subject they are commenting on.... NOT. TrueBlueTerrier
  • Score: 0

1:37pm Wed 2 Jan 13

Max Impact says...

Broadwaywatch wrote:
Max Impact wrote:
Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:
It's a good idea. If the Royal Mail wants to behave like a privatised company then it should be subjected to the same rules as private companies.

They have removed a service from me so I have no sympathy for them at all.
So...

Your waiting at home for a parcel to be delivered, you wait and you wait and you wait... Your parcel does not arrive you phone Royal mail in a fit of rage to be tole...

The van was clamped who do you find fault with.

Royal Mail

or

SBC for bringing in the clamp Royal Mail vans.

You have alive of bike riding why not get on the saddle and ride to Short Street.

I live a short drive from Short Street so as long as they don't close that facility I'm happy.


Happy New Year my friend and sparing partner.
I thought you claimed to live Mendip Cresent......hardly a a short drive from Short Street. I see you have started the New Year well by thinking of only yourself
I do and it is a short drive for me, direct down the A127 round the corner at the station and I'm there, choose the right time of the day and sail through.

Better still the neighbours are always in so it gets left there quite a bit, even better the lady of the house is a cougar (don't tell the wife I said that!) she normally swans round is not very much!

Think of my family and friends before anyone else what id wrong with that I bet we all do the same.
[quote][p][bold]Broadwaywatch[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Max Impact[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Shoebury_Cyclist[/bold] wrote: It's a good idea. If the Royal Mail wants to behave like a privatised company then it should be subjected to the same rules as private companies. They have removed a service from me so I have no sympathy for them at all.[/p][/quote]So... Your waiting at home for a parcel to be delivered, you wait and you wait and you wait... Your parcel does not arrive you phone Royal mail in a fit of rage to be tole... The van was clamped who do you find fault with. Royal Mail or SBC for bringing in the clamp Royal Mail vans. You have alive of bike riding why not get on the saddle and ride to Short Street. I live a short drive from Short Street so as long as they don't close that facility I'm happy. Happy New Year my friend and sparing partner.[/p][/quote]I thought you claimed to live Mendip Cresent......hardly a a short drive from Short Street. I see you have started the New Year well by thinking of only yourself[/p][/quote]I do and it is a short drive for me, direct down the A127 round the corner at the station and I'm there, choose the right time of the day and sail through. Better still the neighbours are always in so it gets left there quite a bit, even better the lady of the house is a cougar (don't tell the wife I said that!) she normally swans round is not very much! Think of my family and friends before anyone else what id wrong with that I bet we all do the same. Max Impact
  • Score: 0

2:40pm Wed 2 Jan 13

Broadwaywatch says...

Max Impact wrote:
Broadwaywatch wrote:
Max Impact wrote:
Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:
It's a good idea. If the Royal Mail wants to behave like a privatised company then it should be subjected to the same rules as private companies.

They have removed a service from me so I have no sympathy for them at all.
So...

Your waiting at home for a parcel to be delivered, you wait and you wait and you wait... Your parcel does not arrive you phone Royal mail in a fit of rage to be tole...

The van was clamped who do you find fault with.

Royal Mail

or

SBC for bringing in the clamp Royal Mail vans.

You have alive of bike riding why not get on the saddle and ride to Short Street.

I live a short drive from Short Street so as long as they don't close that facility I'm happy.


Happy New Year my friend and sparing partner.
I thought you claimed to live Mendip Cresent......hardly a a short drive from Short Street. I see you have started the New Year well by thinking of only yourself
I do and it is a short drive for me, direct down the A127 round the corner at the station and I'm there, choose the right time of the day and sail through.

Better still the neighbours are always in so it gets left there quite a bit, even better the lady of the house is a cougar (don't tell the wife I said that!) she normally swans round is not very much!

Think of my family and friends before anyone else what id wrong with that I bet we all do the same.
Did the neighbours take in your aero engine Max 9the one you told us all that would be arriving on your doorstep and you would have to be paying for) or where you home for that and not doing your deep sea welding.
I certainly would not 'tell your wife' anything.......for one I don't understand what you are trying to say regarding a cougar not swaning around very much.
[quote][p][bold]Max Impact[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Broadwaywatch[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Max Impact[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Shoebury_Cyclist[/bold] wrote: It's a good idea. If the Royal Mail wants to behave like a privatised company then it should be subjected to the same rules as private companies. They have removed a service from me so I have no sympathy for them at all.[/p][/quote]So... Your waiting at home for a parcel to be delivered, you wait and you wait and you wait... Your parcel does not arrive you phone Royal mail in a fit of rage to be tole... The van was clamped who do you find fault with. Royal Mail or SBC for bringing in the clamp Royal Mail vans. You have alive of bike riding why not get on the saddle and ride to Short Street. I live a short drive from Short Street so as long as they don't close that facility I'm happy. Happy New Year my friend and sparing partner.[/p][/quote]I thought you claimed to live Mendip Cresent......hardly a a short drive from Short Street. I see you have started the New Year well by thinking of only yourself[/p][/quote]I do and it is a short drive for me, direct down the A127 round the corner at the station and I'm there, choose the right time of the day and sail through. Better still the neighbours are always in so it gets left there quite a bit, even better the lady of the house is a cougar (don't tell the wife I said that!) she normally swans round is not very much! Think of my family and friends before anyone else what id wrong with that I bet we all do the same.[/p][/quote]Did the neighbours take in your aero engine Max 9the one you told us all that would be arriving on your doorstep and you would have to be paying for) or where you home for that and not doing your deep sea welding. I certainly would not 'tell your wife' anything.......for one I don't understand what you are trying to say regarding a cougar not swaning around very much. Broadwaywatch
  • Score: 0

2:46pm Wed 2 Jan 13

Max Impact says...

Broadwaywatch wrote:
Max Impact wrote:
Broadwaywatch wrote:
Max Impact wrote:
Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:
It's a good idea. If the Royal Mail wants to behave like a privatised company then it should be subjected to the same rules as private companies.

They have removed a service from me so I have no sympathy for them at all.
So...

Your waiting at home for a parcel to be delivered, you wait and you wait and you wait... Your parcel does not arrive you phone Royal mail in a fit of rage to be tole...

The van was clamped who do you find fault with.

Royal Mail

or

SBC for bringing in the clamp Royal Mail vans.

You have alive of bike riding why not get on the saddle and ride to Short Street.

I live a short drive from Short Street so as long as they don't close that facility I'm happy.


Happy New Year my friend and sparing partner.
I thought you claimed to live Mendip Cresent......hardly a a short drive from Short Street. I see you have started the New Year well by thinking of only yourself
I do and it is a short drive for me, direct down the A127 round the corner at the station and I'm there, choose the right time of the day and sail through.

Better still the neighbours are always in so it gets left there quite a bit, even better the lady of the house is a cougar (don't tell the wife I said that!) she normally swans round is not very much!

Think of my family and friends before anyone else what id wrong with that I bet we all do the same.
Did the neighbours take in your aero engine Max 9the one you told us all that would be arriving on your doorstep and you would have to be paying for) or where you home for that and not doing your deep sea welding.
I certainly would not 'tell your wife' anything.......for one I don't understand what you are trying to say regarding a cougar not swaning around very much.
Aero engine was sold on direct from the compnay, so never arrived.

As for cougar check out that dire US tv "show" cougar town...
[quote][p][bold]Broadwaywatch[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Max Impact[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Broadwaywatch[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Max Impact[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Shoebury_Cyclist[/bold] wrote: It's a good idea. If the Royal Mail wants to behave like a privatised company then it should be subjected to the same rules as private companies. They have removed a service from me so I have no sympathy for them at all.[/p][/quote]So... Your waiting at home for a parcel to be delivered, you wait and you wait and you wait... Your parcel does not arrive you phone Royal mail in a fit of rage to be tole... The van was clamped who do you find fault with. Royal Mail or SBC for bringing in the clamp Royal Mail vans. You have alive of bike riding why not get on the saddle and ride to Short Street. I live a short drive from Short Street so as long as they don't close that facility I'm happy. Happy New Year my friend and sparing partner.[/p][/quote]I thought you claimed to live Mendip Cresent......hardly a a short drive from Short Street. I see you have started the New Year well by thinking of only yourself[/p][/quote]I do and it is a short drive for me, direct down the A127 round the corner at the station and I'm there, choose the right time of the day and sail through. Better still the neighbours are always in so it gets left there quite a bit, even better the lady of the house is a cougar (don't tell the wife I said that!) she normally swans round is not very much! Think of my family and friends before anyone else what id wrong with that I bet we all do the same.[/p][/quote]Did the neighbours take in your aero engine Max 9the one you told us all that would be arriving on your doorstep and you would have to be paying for) or where you home for that and not doing your deep sea welding. I certainly would not 'tell your wife' anything.......for one I don't understand what you are trying to say regarding a cougar not swaning around very much.[/p][/quote]Aero engine was sold on direct from the compnay, so never arrived. As for cougar check out that dire US tv "show" cougar town... Max Impact
  • Score: 0

3:56pm Wed 2 Jan 13

Broadwaywatch says...

Yes I looked up the term cougar on the net ........I live and learn. So I will pass no further comment on such a personal subject......only that I hope she avoids catching a cold.
Yes I looked up the term cougar on the net ........I live and learn. So I will pass no further comment on such a personal subject......only that I hope she avoids catching a cold. Broadwaywatch
  • Score: 0

10:36pm Wed 2 Jan 13

wishblossom says...

Mick assenheim should look on his own door step as his live across the road from shoebury park. If he looks out of his window he will see drunken kids hanging around outside the main gate drinking and smashing bottles and vandalising cars. And as soon as that is over the flats right near him see regular drug deals done right outside the main gate every night. Why can't he do something about that rather the picking on things to give more money for the council to waste.
Mick assenheim should look on his own door step as his live across the road from shoebury park. If he looks out of his window he will see drunken kids hanging around outside the main gate drinking and smashing bottles and vandalising cars. And as soon as that is over the flats right near him see regular drug deals done right outside the main gate every night. Why can't he do something about that rather the picking on things to give more money for the council to waste. wishblossom
  • Score: 0

10:58pm Wed 2 Jan 13

Letmetryagain says...

It hardly the "posties" fault that delivery offices are closing
It hardly the "posties" fault that delivery offices are closing Letmetryagain
  • Score: 0

11:12pm Wed 2 Jan 13

wishblossom says...

Letmetryagain wrote:
It hardly the "posties" fault that delivery offices are closing
I agree the post office put up the price and closes post offices as and when they like. This is because there is no other delivery company to use. And it is not the the post men and women's fault but the greedy royal mail.
[quote][p][bold]Letmetryagain[/bold] wrote: It hardly the "posties" fault that delivery offices are closing[/p][/quote]I agree the post office put up the price and closes post offices as and when they like. This is because there is no other delivery company to use. And it is not the the post men and women's fault but the greedy royal mail. wishblossom
  • Score: 0

12:26am Thu 3 Jan 13

ally_1 says...

These councillors must be mad if they think stopping deliveries parking on double yellow lines will change Royal Mail management's minds on the closure of delivery offices. The only people that will be affected will be local residents. The moment a Royal Mail van gets a parking ticket will be the moment residents in the local vicinity will no longer be able to have mail delivered due to risk of Royal Mail incurring further parking charges.

Locking trollies to lamp posts etc will become a non-issue as every delivery in Leigh, Shoebury and Rochford will become a van share between two posties. Only posties close to an office get a trolley.

These councillors know all too well that it has been consecutive governments policy to create competition in the mail market and allow other mail companies to undercut Royal Mail's prices, employ a couple of hundred staff to collect the profitable mail from the top 100 companies in the country (banks, utility companies etc) who post the majority of the mail, sort in in their machines and drop it off to Royal Mail's doorstep who have to employ 160,000 staff to deliver it at a small fraction of the original price.

This is also the main reason why stamps for residents and small businesses have increased from 20p in 2000 to 60p in 2012, Royal Mail's profit of £600 million per year in the late 90's has been wiped out by allowing competition in the mail market, a competition that has no intention to start actually delivering the profitable mail, especially in rural areas - why would they? that would be a huge drain on profits. Instead Royal Mail now needs to try and make a profit on every letter that is posted, but this will only really happen when the price of a stamp hits £1.

Local management would have already been told to cut costs and reduce overheads from top, top management, but this is nothing new. Delivery offices have been closing all over the country, as well as major sorting offices (even in London) and it will continue as the Government take the cash from selling on the lucrative building assets. This is probably how Royal Mail will show a profit this year and try and entice another company to buy Royal Mail as a private venture.

Who really cares if the posties are based in Southend? Yes, it will affect the posties themselves. These councillors should be securing locations with Royal Mail over where customers packets can be left in Leigh, Rochford and Shoebury if no one is in to collect.

Its easily possible for Royal Mail to pay a fee to post offices in the deliveries vicinity to take in parcels for customers, thus stopping the need for customers to trek to Southend! I can see in the future with a private Royal Mail where packets are on the rise that this cost of collecting letters or packets could become a surcharge to collect your parcel? a fee for not being in to collect in the first place!

Overall it will always be the local resident and small businesses that will lose out due to the governments medaling in privatising the mail market - and these councillors know it.
These councillors must be mad if they think stopping deliveries parking on double yellow lines will change Royal Mail management's minds on the closure of delivery offices. The only people that will be affected will be local residents. The moment a Royal Mail van gets a parking ticket will be the moment residents in the local vicinity will no longer be able to have mail delivered due to risk of Royal Mail incurring further parking charges. Locking trollies to lamp posts etc will become a non-issue as every delivery in Leigh, Shoebury and Rochford will become a van share between two posties. Only posties close to an office get a trolley. These councillors know all too well that it has been consecutive governments policy to create competition in the mail market and allow other mail companies to undercut Royal Mail's prices, employ a couple of hundred staff to collect the profitable mail from the top 100 companies in the country (banks, utility companies etc) who post the majority of the mail, sort in in their machines and drop it off to Royal Mail's doorstep who have to employ 160,000 staff to deliver it at a small fraction of the original price. This is also the main reason why stamps for residents and small businesses have increased from 20p in 2000 to 60p in 2012, Royal Mail's profit of £600 million per year in the late 90's has been wiped out by allowing competition in the mail market, a competition that has no intention to start actually delivering the profitable mail, especially in rural areas - why would they? that would be a huge drain on profits. Instead Royal Mail now needs to try and make a profit on every letter that is posted, but this will only really happen when the price of a stamp hits £1. Local management would have already been told to cut costs and reduce overheads from top, top management, but this is nothing new. Delivery offices have been closing all over the country, as well as major sorting offices (even in London) and it will continue as the Government take the cash from selling on the lucrative building assets. This is probably how Royal Mail will show a profit this year and try and entice another company to buy Royal Mail as a private venture. Who really cares if the posties are based in Southend? Yes, it will affect the posties themselves. These councillors should be securing locations with Royal Mail over where customers packets can be left in Leigh, Rochford and Shoebury if no one is in to collect. Its easily possible for Royal Mail to pay a fee to post offices in the deliveries vicinity to take in parcels for customers, thus stopping the need for customers to trek to Southend! I can see in the future with a private Royal Mail where packets are on the rise that this cost of collecting letters or packets could become a surcharge to collect your parcel? a fee for not being in to collect in the first place! Overall it will always be the local resident and small businesses that will lose out due to the governments medaling in privatising the mail market - and these councillors know it. ally_1
  • Score: 0

8:49am Thu 3 Jan 13

Shoebury_Cyclist says...

"These councillors should be securing locations with Royal Mail over where customers packets can be left in Leigh, Rochford and Shoebury if no one is in to collect."

No they shouldn't. Why should public money be spent propping up a business that refuses to put the customer first? Royal Mail is removing its service from the Southend area, it is Royal Mail's responsibility to ensure the customer sees no disruption to services.

I think Southend council should quite bluntly tell them, "If you cut these services you get no more special treatment from the council". First thing they should do is increase parking enforcement ten-fold around Short Street. And yes, remove all those unsightly Royal Mail trolleys from lampposts, we wouldn't tolerate shopping trolleys being left tied up in areas around supermarkets. And yes, make parking rules apply equally to Royal Mail vehicles, just as they do for all other courier services.;
"These councillors should be securing locations with Royal Mail over where customers packets can be left in Leigh, Rochford and Shoebury if no one is in to collect." No they shouldn't. Why should public money be spent propping up a business that refuses to put the customer first? Royal Mail is removing its service from the Southend area, it is Royal Mail's responsibility to ensure the customer sees no disruption to services. I think Southend council should quite bluntly tell them, "If you cut these services you get no more special treatment from the council". First thing they should do is increase parking enforcement ten-fold around Short Street. And yes, remove all those unsightly Royal Mail trolleys from lampposts, we wouldn't tolerate shopping trolleys being left tied up in areas around supermarkets. And yes, make parking rules apply equally to Royal Mail vehicles, just as they do for all other courier services.; Shoebury_Cyclist
  • Score: 0

9:12am Thu 3 Jan 13

Eutraveller says...

Easy answer have parcels delivered to local PO (the postie can do it during his round) if resident not at home, why do we need a seperate facility for missed parcel delivery.

As for clamping and fining, who will pay ni the end, the public. You STUPID stupid councillors, get a life.
Easy answer have parcels delivered to local PO (the postie can do it during his round) if resident not at home, why do we need a seperate facility for missed parcel delivery. As for clamping and fining, who will pay ni the end, the public. You STUPID stupid councillors, get a life. Eutraveller
  • Score: 0

11:11pm Thu 3 Jan 13

siddymint says...

What ever you think at least these councillors are doing something.
It might be wrong but they are doing somthing .
What are all the others doing???
What ever you think at least these councillors are doing something. It might be wrong but they are doing somthing . What are all the others doing??? siddymint
  • Score: 0

11:25pm Thu 3 Jan 13

Nebs says...

ally_1 wrote:
These councillors must be mad if they think stopping deliveries parking on double yellow lines will change Royal Mail management's minds on the closure of delivery offices. The only people that will be affected will be local residents. The moment a Royal Mail van gets a parking ticket will be the moment residents in the local vicinity will no longer be able to have mail delivered due to risk of Royal Mail incurring further parking charges.

Locking trollies to lamp posts etc will become a non-issue as every delivery in Leigh, Shoebury and Rochford will become a van share between two posties. Only posties close to an office get a trolley.

These councillors know all too well that it has been consecutive governments policy to create competition in the mail market and allow other mail companies to undercut Royal Mail's prices, employ a couple of hundred staff to collect the profitable mail from the top 100 companies in the country (banks, utility companies etc) who post the majority of the mail, sort in in their machines and drop it off to Royal Mail's doorstep who have to employ 160,000 staff to deliver it at a small fraction of the original price.

This is also the main reason why stamps for residents and small businesses have increased from 20p in 2000 to 60p in 2012, Royal Mail's profit of £600 million per year in the late 90's has been wiped out by allowing competition in the mail market, a competition that has no intention to start actually delivering the profitable mail, especially in rural areas - why would they? that would be a huge drain on profits. Instead Royal Mail now needs to try and make a profit on every letter that is posted, but this will only really happen when the price of a stamp hits £1.

Local management would have already been told to cut costs and reduce overheads from top, top management, but this is nothing new. Delivery offices have been closing all over the country, as well as major sorting offices (even in London) and it will continue as the Government take the cash from selling on the lucrative building assets. This is probably how Royal Mail will show a profit this year and try and entice another company to buy Royal Mail as a private venture.

Who really cares if the posties are based in Southend? Yes, it will affect the posties themselves. These councillors should be securing locations with Royal Mail over where customers packets can be left in Leigh, Rochford and Shoebury if no one is in to collect.

Its easily possible for Royal Mail to pay a fee to post offices in the deliveries vicinity to take in parcels for customers, thus stopping the need for customers to trek to Southend! I can see in the future with a private Royal Mail where packets are on the rise that this cost of collecting letters or packets could become a surcharge to collect your parcel? a fee for not being in to collect in the first place!

Overall it will always be the local resident and small businesses that will lose out due to the governments medaling in privatising the mail market - and these councillors know it.
Why don't Royal Mail just refuse to take the discounted bulk mail, and charge the regular price for it.
[quote][p][bold]ally_1[/bold] wrote: These councillors must be mad if they think stopping deliveries parking on double yellow lines will change Royal Mail management's minds on the closure of delivery offices. The only people that will be affected will be local residents. The moment a Royal Mail van gets a parking ticket will be the moment residents in the local vicinity will no longer be able to have mail delivered due to risk of Royal Mail incurring further parking charges. Locking trollies to lamp posts etc will become a non-issue as every delivery in Leigh, Shoebury and Rochford will become a van share between two posties. Only posties close to an office get a trolley. These councillors know all too well that it has been consecutive governments policy to create competition in the mail market and allow other mail companies to undercut Royal Mail's prices, employ a couple of hundred staff to collect the profitable mail from the top 100 companies in the country (banks, utility companies etc) who post the majority of the mail, sort in in their machines and drop it off to Royal Mail's doorstep who have to employ 160,000 staff to deliver it at a small fraction of the original price. This is also the main reason why stamps for residents and small businesses have increased from 20p in 2000 to 60p in 2012, Royal Mail's profit of £600 million per year in the late 90's has been wiped out by allowing competition in the mail market, a competition that has no intention to start actually delivering the profitable mail, especially in rural areas - why would they? that would be a huge drain on profits. Instead Royal Mail now needs to try and make a profit on every letter that is posted, but this will only really happen when the price of a stamp hits £1. Local management would have already been told to cut costs and reduce overheads from top, top management, but this is nothing new. Delivery offices have been closing all over the country, as well as major sorting offices (even in London) and it will continue as the Government take the cash from selling on the lucrative building assets. This is probably how Royal Mail will show a profit this year and try and entice another company to buy Royal Mail as a private venture. Who really cares if the posties are based in Southend? Yes, it will affect the posties themselves. These councillors should be securing locations with Royal Mail over where customers packets can be left in Leigh, Rochford and Shoebury if no one is in to collect. Its easily possible for Royal Mail to pay a fee to post offices in the deliveries vicinity to take in parcels for customers, thus stopping the need for customers to trek to Southend! I can see in the future with a private Royal Mail where packets are on the rise that this cost of collecting letters or packets could become a surcharge to collect your parcel? a fee for not being in to collect in the first place! Overall it will always be the local resident and small businesses that will lose out due to the governments medaling in privatising the mail market - and these councillors know it.[/p][/quote]Why don't Royal Mail just refuse to take the discounted bulk mail, and charge the regular price for it. Nebs
  • Score: 0

7:13am Fri 4 Jan 13

Hannah Foster says...

Brunning999 wrote:
They never used to have vans so why do they have about 30 now at the Benfleet office, I fear they are gearing up for a complete private postal service, with the normal attitude of many of the other large companies, call centre's in India and couldn't care a less attitude like BT, Orange, TalkTalk, Santander all of which like to pretend how good they are with stupid adverts plus many others that do not give a fig!!
As far as the call centres are concerned, they may be In the UK at present but they are already utterly useless. I have regular dealings with Royal Mail on the phone and they couldn't care less now. The whole service is not fit for purpose. In general I am against privatisation but in this case we need some decent competition and market forces. Just look at the price of a stamp! Because they have a monopoly on certain aspects of the delivery network they think that they can ignore customer service altogether and behave like the French with a shrug of indifference to their customers but all to ready to strike at the drop of a beret!
[quote][p][bold]Brunning999[/bold] wrote: They never used to have vans so why do they have about 30 now at the Benfleet office, I fear they are gearing up for a complete private postal service, with the normal attitude of many of the other large companies, call centre's in India and couldn't care a less attitude like BT, Orange, TalkTalk, Santander all of which like to pretend how good they are with stupid adverts plus many others that do not give a fig!![/p][/quote]As far as the call centres are concerned, they may be In the UK at present but they are already utterly useless. I have regular dealings with Royal Mail on the phone and they couldn't care less now. The whole service is not fit for purpose. In general I am against privatisation but in this case we need some decent competition and market forces. Just look at the price of a stamp! Because they have a monopoly on certain aspects of the delivery network they think that they can ignore customer service altogether and behave like the French with a shrug of indifference to their customers but all to ready to strike at the drop of a beret! Hannah Foster
  • Score: 0

4:28pm Fri 4 Jan 13

shoeburylad says...

siddymint wrote:
What ever you think at least these councillors are doing something.
It might be wrong but they are doing somthing .
What are all the others doing???
siddymint, what about councillors like Cllr Flewitt, Cllr Hadley and Cllr Cox who have launched petitions with massive public support and got a motion passed at the last council meeting.

Or the leaders of all the four groups who along with the Chief Executive met with Royal Mail representatives to try and persuade them to change their minds as reported in the Echo recently.

You would have us believe that it is only these two crackpots who have done anything.
[quote][p][bold]siddymint[/bold] wrote: What ever you think at least these councillors are doing something. It might be wrong but they are doing somthing . What are all the others doing???[/p][/quote]siddymint, what about councillors like Cllr Flewitt, Cllr Hadley and Cllr Cox who have launched petitions with massive public support and got a motion passed at the last council meeting. Or the leaders of all the four groups who along with the Chief Executive met with Royal Mail representatives to try and persuade them to change their minds as reported in the Echo recently. You would have us believe that it is only these two crackpots who have done anything. shoeburylad
  • Score: 0

9:23pm Fri 4 Jan 13

siddymint says...

Shoeburylad
Thanks for the info it needs to be shouted the coucnillors who are doing anything, the more that actaully stand up to be counted even if they are crackpots
The post office might start to listen.
Sadly there are those who think being a councillor is drinking tea and eating bisciuts .
Shoeburylad Thanks for the info it needs to be shouted the coucnillors who are doing anything, the more that actaully stand up to be counted even if they are crackpots The post office might start to listen. Sadly there are those who think being a councillor is drinking tea and eating bisciuts . siddymint
  • Score: 0

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