Should MPs have a pay rise? (From Echo)
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Should MPs have a pay rise?
3:20pm Tuesday 15th January 2013 in Local News
ESSEX MPs have criticised demands by colleagues to hike their salaries by a third to £86,000 a year.
Tory MPs John Baron and Stephen Metcalfe spoke out after an anonymous survey for the Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority (IPSA) found the average parliamentarian believed their annual wage should rise by £21,000.
According to the research by YouGov, 69 per cent of MPs thought they were underpaid on £65,738.
However, Mr Metcalfe, who represents South Basildon and East Thurrock, revealed he had refused to take part in the survey.
He said: “I do not think, and have never thought, that MPs should have a say in deciding their own salary.
“I did not want any part in that. It is a privilege to do this job and we are already paid a generous salary.
“That is what is important to me.”
Mr Baron, who represents Basildon and Billericay, also said he had never voted on his own pay or pension. H
owever, the MP of 12 years did respond to IPSA and suggested a complete overhaul of the payment system.
Mr Baron called for all expenses to be cancelled, and a proportion of the ensuing savings added to MPs’ salaries.
He said: “That has the twofold effect of reducing the cost to the taxpayer significantly and making the system much more transparent.
“Expenses have been clouding the issue for some time now.
“By removing that, we could once and for all increase public confidence in the system.”
IPSA’s initial consultation on MPs’ wages ended last month. Final decisions are due to be taken in the spring, with a new system not taking effect until after the 2015 general election.
On average, Tories said their salary should be £96,740, while Lib Dems thought the right amount was £78,361 and Labour £77,322.
One MP insisted they should get £40,000 or less, but a fifth of those questioned said they deserved £95,000 or more.
The overall average suggestion was £86,250. The research found 27 per cent of the MPs wanted their pay to go up by more than one per cent over the next two years - despite public sector rises and most working age benefits being controversially capped at that level.
However, nearly two-thirds supported IPSA’s decision to impose the same discipline.
The watchdog did bow to pressure by agreeing to reopen the subject of “golden goodbyes”, after 53 per cent insisted members should be entitled to tens of thousands of pounds even if they step down from parliament voluntarily.
The report said Ipsa was “not convinced” it was right to provide such pay-offs, pointing out that most employees did not get similar benefits.
But it added: “It is clear that this is a complex issue. The problem, and possible solutions, deserve further examination.”
The MPs’ feedback was met with disbelief by union chiefs, who accused them of living in “cloud cuckoo land”.
Unison general secretary Dave Prentis said: “MPs should get real about pay, this shows they are totally out of touch with working people.
“How can they think that they deserve a 32 per cent increase when the rest of the country is being told to tighten their belts?
“No wonder this research is anonymous, it shows real contempt for the plight of families across the country struggling to make ends meet.”
Matthew Sinclair, chief executive of the TaxPayers' Alliance, added: “Hiking politicians' wages at a time of pay freezes, benefit caps and necessary spending cuts would be completely unpalatable to taxpayers.
“To do so would suggest that there is one rule for MPs and another for the rest of the country. There is zero appetite for a pay rise for MPs, as borne out by the polling of the public commissioned by IPSA.
“Most people clearly think that an MP's salary is currently about right.”
Comments(54)
woolstone
says...
3:51pm Tue 15 Jan 13
perini
says...
4:05pm Tue 15 Jan 13
Eric Whim
says...
4:13pm Tue 15 Jan 13
It's called 'lead by example'.
Broadwaywatch
says...
4:35pm Tue 15 Jan 13
Eric Whim wrote:No, NO, No its called lead by greed!
they should be pegged at 1% like they've done to benefit claimants - we are all in it together after all, allegedly.
It's called 'lead by example'.
Shoebury_Cyclist
says...
4:37pm Tue 15 Jan 13
Eric Whim wrote:MPs pay rises ARE pegged at a 1%, that was their reasoning for limiting benefit rises to 1%.
they should be pegged at 1% like they've done to benefit claimants - we are all in it together after all, allegedly.
It's called 'lead by example'.
The only thing with that is that 1% of £71 JSA is 71p extra a week, when the rate of inflation is 2.7%. So a JSA claimant gets a £36.92 per year increase in their benefit while the cost of living rapidly outstrips that paltry increase.
Meanwhile our 'in it together' MPs - on their annual salaries of £65,738 - get a whopping £657.38 a year increase. Each.
I'd like to know in what possible world is that 'fair', as Head Pig David Cameron claims?
fletch12107
says...
4:38pm Tue 15 Jan 13
Nebs
says...
5:07pm Tue 15 Jan 13
notinwestcliffanymore
says...
5:07pm Tue 15 Jan 13
Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:You have the neck to call these self serving scum, yet you seem to advocate reckless spending on benefits. me thinks you would liked to served from my hard earned tax..
Eric Whim wrote: they should be pegged at 1% like they've done to benefit claimants - we are all in it together after all, allegedly. It's called 'lead by example'.MPs pay rises ARE pegged at a 1%, that was their reasoning for limiting benefit rises to 1%. The only thing with that is that 1% of £71 JSA is 71p extra a week, when the rate of inflation is 2.7%. So a JSA claimant gets a £36.92 per year increase in their benefit while the cost of living rapidly outstrips that paltry increase. Meanwhile our 'in it together' MPs - on their annual salaries of £65,738 - get a whopping £657.38 a year increase. Each. I'd like to know in what possible world is that 'fair', as Head Pig David Cameron claims?
.
the best way to improve your life is to get a job, and before you start if half of poland can find work over here i'm sure you could if you don't like a 1% increase in your well earned hand out.
Test Tickle
says...
5:17pm Tue 15 Jan 13
Eric Whim
says...
5:31pm Tue 15 Jan 13
Max 269
says...
5:34pm Tue 15 Jan 13
Shoebury_Cyclist
says...
5:54pm Tue 15 Jan 13
notinwestcliffanymorI do have a job you feckwit. I've paid tax all my life.
e wrote:
Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:You have the neck to call these self serving scum, yet you seem to advocate reckless spending on benefits. me thinks you would liked to served from my hard earned tax..
Eric Whim wrote: they should be pegged at 1% like they've done to benefit claimants - we are all in it together after all, allegedly. It's called 'lead by example'.MPs pay rises ARE pegged at a 1%, that was their reasoning for limiting benefit rises to 1%. The only thing with that is that 1% of £71 JSA is 71p extra a week, when the rate of inflation is 2.7%. So a JSA claimant gets a £36.92 per year increase in their benefit while the cost of living rapidly outstrips that paltry increase. Meanwhile our 'in it together' MPs - on their annual salaries of £65,738 - get a whopping £657.38 a year increase. Each. I'd like to know in what possible world is that 'fair', as Head Pig David Cameron claims?
.
the best way to improve your life is to get a job, and before you start if half of poland can find work over here i'm sure you could if you don't like a 1% increase in your well earned hand out.
How long does it take someone to become a 'shirker' in your ignorant bigoted tory world?
Are those Jessops employees - who had jobs last week but not this week - are they 'shirkers' yet? Maybe the 4000 HMV employees will be 'shirkers' by the end of the week? What about all those Comet employees, are they 'shirkers' yet?
I pay tax and national insurance so that should I fall on hard times there is a welfare state there to help me. You would have us all paying tax for no reason at all.
Shoebury_Cyclist
says...
5:57pm Tue 15 Jan 13
http://www.independe
nt.co.uk/voices/comm
ent/the-welfare-bill
-a-government-of-mil
lionaires-just-made-
the-poor-poorer--and
-laughed-as-they-did
-it-8443619.html
asbo. just the truth
says...
8:41pm Tue 15 Jan 13
Nebs wrote:yes wonder who it is that opposes the re-drawing of the electoral boundaries to reduce the number of bureaucrats in westminster. yep you guessed it...the labour/liberal self serving scum as i think the term has now officially been coined.
I think MP's are worth a lot more than they are currently paid. However there are too many. Halve the number of MP's at the next general election, and give those that are elected a 50% pay rise. Everyones a winner.
asbo. just the truth
says...
8:46pm Tue 15 Jan 13
Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:no don't believe it. you're one of those benefit sucking monkeys. hard times..kuh...you got your weekly handouts to keep your larder stocked with dog food. cushty!
notinwestcliffanymorI do have a job you feckwit. I've paid tax all my life.
e wrote:
Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:You have the neck to call these self serving scum, yet you seem to advocate reckless spending on benefits. me thinks you would liked to served from my hard earned tax..
Eric Whim wrote: they should be pegged at 1% like they've done to benefit claimants - we are all in it together after all, allegedly. It's called 'lead by example'.MPs pay rises ARE pegged at a 1%, that was their reasoning for limiting benefit rises to 1%. The only thing with that is that 1% of £71 JSA is 71p extra a week, when the rate of inflation is 2.7%. So a JSA claimant gets a £36.92 per year increase in their benefit while the cost of living rapidly outstrips that paltry increase. Meanwhile our 'in it together' MPs - on their annual salaries of £65,738 - get a whopping £657.38 a year increase. Each. I'd like to know in what possible world is that 'fair', as Head Pig David Cameron claims?
.
the best way to improve your life is to get a job, and before you start if half of poland can find work over here i'm sure you could if you don't like a 1% increase in your well earned hand out.
How long does it take someone to become a 'shirker' in your ignorant bigoted tory world?
Are those Jessops employees - who had jobs last week but not this week - are they 'shirkers' yet? Maybe the 4000 HMV employees will be 'shirkers' by the end of the week? What about all those Comet employees, are they 'shirkers' yet?
I pay tax and national insurance so that should I fall on hard times there is a welfare state there to help me. You would have us all paying tax for no reason at all.
asbo. just the truth
says...
8:56pm Tue 15 Jan 13
woolstone wrote:no but we could never re-draw the electoral boundaries to shrink the numbers because the gerrymanderers oops i meant labour and nicky clogg would never sanction it. let's just call it looking after number 1
Well they have cut back on police, teachers. nurses etc., when can we cut back on MPs, do we really need so many ? How about a pay cut like most other public workers, after all we are all in this together!!!!!
Shoebury_Cyclist
says...
9:10pm Tue 15 Jan 13
asbo. just the truth wrote:Shirley Porter was guilty of gerrymandering. What political stripe was she?
woolstone wrote:no but we could never re-draw the electoral boundaries to shrink the numbers because the gerrymanderers oops i meant labour and nicky clogg would never sanction it. let's just call it looking after number 1
Well they have cut back on police, teachers. nurses etc., when can we cut back on MPs, do we really need so many ? How about a pay cut like most other public workers, after all we are all in this together!!!!!
Devils Advocate
says...
9:18pm Tue 15 Jan 13
asbo. just the truth wrote:So what do you call the using of postal votes of dead people to gain a majority? disallowing of working class people to vote, is that good politics? Before you start calling other people scum, how about you losing your anonimity so we can see if you are one of the greedy right?
woolstone wrote:no but we could never re-draw the electoral boundaries to shrink the numbers because the gerrymanderers oops i meant labour and nicky clogg would never sanction it. let's just call it looking after number 1
Well they have cut back on police, teachers. nurses etc., when can we cut back on MPs, do we really need so many ? How about a pay cut like most other public workers, after all we are all in this together!!!!!
asbo. just the truth
says...
9:27pm Tue 15 Jan 13
Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:so let's just be clear about this. you support widescreen anamorphic labour gerrymandering but oppose an isolated incidence of conservative "gerrymandering" sometime back in the bronze age?
asbo. just the truth wrote:Shirley Porter was guilty of gerrymandering. What political stripe was she?
woolstone wrote:no but we could never re-draw the electoral boundaries to shrink the numbers because the gerrymanderers oops i meant labour and nicky clogg would never sanction it. let's just call it looking after number 1
Well they have cut back on police, teachers. nurses etc., when can we cut back on MPs, do we really need so many ? How about a pay cut like most other public workers, after all we are all in this together!!!!!
notinwestcliffanymore
says...
9:28pm Tue 15 Jan 13
Are those Jessops employees - who had jobs last week but not this week - are they 'shirkers' yet? Maybe the 4000 HMV employees will be 'shirkers' by the end of the week? What about all those Comet employees, are they 'shirkers' yet?.
.These are the very people that are harmed most by the profligate use of the benefits system. If money was not handed out to millions of people for who signing on is a job, there would be more in the pot to help those that have put something into the pot..
asbo. just the truth
says...
9:30pm Tue 15 Jan 13
Devils Advocate wrote:scum was not my word, it was the term used by your comrade shoebury clownski
asbo. just the truth wrote:So what do you call the using of postal votes of dead people to gain a majority? disallowing of working class people to vote, is that good politics? Before you start calling other people scum, how about you losing your anonimity so we can see if you are one of the greedy right?
woolstone wrote:no but we could never re-draw the electoral boundaries to shrink the numbers because the gerrymanderers oops i meant labour and nicky clogg would never sanction it. let's just call it looking after number 1
Well they have cut back on police, teachers. nurses etc., when can we cut back on MPs, do we really need so many ? How about a pay cut like most other public workers, after all we are all in this together!!!!!
asbo. just the truth
says...
9:42pm Tue 15 Jan 13
Devils Advocate wrote:Last Poster, any talk of democracy by the left wing is hypocrisy in the extreme. how does the block vote sit with fair democratic principles?
asbo. just the truth wrote:So what do you call the using of postal votes of dead people to gain a majority? disallowing of working class people to vote, is that good politics? Before you start calling other people scum, how about you losing your anonimity so we can see if you are one of the greedy right?
woolstone wrote:no but we could never re-draw the electoral boundaries to shrink the numbers because the gerrymanderers oops i meant labour and nicky clogg would never sanction it. let's just call it looking after number 1
Well they have cut back on police, teachers. nurses etc., when can we cut back on MPs, do we really need so many ? How about a pay cut like most other public workers, after all we are all in this together!!!!!
Nebs
says...
9:42pm Tue 15 Jan 13
Devils Advocate
says...
9:43pm Tue 15 Jan 13
asbo. just the truth wrote:Yes I know. But have you flicked up the comments and picked your adjectives out? I haven't got enough fingers to put that lot in. Still, at least he wasn't trying to defer his banking bonuses until April to make that easy earnt fortune be worth yet another 5p in the pound!
Devils Advocate wrote:scum was not my word, it was the term used by your comrade shoebury clownski
asbo. just the truth wrote:So what do you call the using of postal votes of dead people to gain a majority? disallowing of working class people to vote, is that good politics? Before you start calling other people scum, how about you losing your anonimity so we can see if you are one of the greedy right?
woolstone wrote:no but we could never re-draw the electoral boundaries to shrink the numbers because the gerrymanderers oops i meant labour and nicky clogg would never sanction it. let's just call it looking after number 1
Well they have cut back on police, teachers. nurses etc., when can we cut back on MPs, do we really need so many ? How about a pay cut like most other public workers, after all we are all in this together!!!!!
Devils Advocate
says...
9:49pm Tue 15 Jan 13
asbo. just the truth wrote:It sits just fine in my book. But, how does undemocratic usage of British soldiers to try to oust the new leadership of Russia after the first world war, an illegal action, made under the guise of protecting our supplies,which was kept secret even from Parliament, yet led by one of the "Greatest politicians" (Conservative) of all time?
Devils Advocate wrote:Last Poster, any talk of democracy by the left wing is hypocrisy in the extreme. how does the block vote sit with fair democratic principles?
asbo. just the truth wrote:So what do you call the using of postal votes of dead people to gain a majority? disallowing of working class people to vote, is that good politics? Before you start calling other people scum, how about you losing your anonimity so we can see if you are one of the greedy right?
woolstone wrote:no but we could never re-draw the electoral boundaries to shrink the numbers because the gerrymanderers oops i meant labour and nicky clogg would never sanction it. let's just call it looking after number 1
Well they have cut back on police, teachers. nurses etc., when can we cut back on MPs, do we really need so many ? How about a pay cut like most other public workers, after all we are all in this together!!!!!
asbo. just the truth
says...
9:51pm Tue 15 Jan 13
Devils Advocate wrote:well our political hue is not that disimilar. the problem is you can't bail out the banks and expect them to behave like model citizens. the banks should have been left to fail and the bankers beheaded. next time i'm in basildon i'll buy you a pint. my identity is no secret.
asbo. just the truth wrote:Yes I know. But have you flicked up the comments and picked your adjectives out? I haven't got enough fingers to put that lot in. Still, at least he wasn't trying to defer his banking bonuses until April to make that easy earnt fortune be worth yet another 5p in the pound!
Devils Advocate wrote:scum was not my word, it was the term used by your comrade shoebury clownski
asbo. just the truth wrote:So what do you call the using of postal votes of dead people to gain a majority? disallowing of working class people to vote, is that good politics? Before you start calling other people scum, how about you losing your anonimity so we can see if you are one of the greedy right?
woolstone wrote:no but we could never re-draw the electoral boundaries to shrink the numbers because the gerrymanderers oops i meant labour and nicky clogg would never sanction it. let's just call it looking after number 1
Well they have cut back on police, teachers. nurses etc., when can we cut back on MPs, do we really need so many ? How about a pay cut like most other public workers, after all we are all in this together!!!!!
asbo. just the truth
says...
9:58pm Tue 15 Jan 13
Devils Advocate wrote:they don't make 'em like that anymore i'm afraid. more's the pity
asbo. just the truth wrote:It sits just fine in my book. But, how does undemocratic usage of British soldiers to try to oust the new leadership of Russia after the first world war, an illegal action, made under the guise of protecting our supplies,which was kept secret even from Parliament, yet led by one of the "Greatest politicians" (Conservative) of all time?
Devils Advocate wrote:Last Poster, any talk of democracy by the left wing is hypocrisy in the extreme. how does the block vote sit with fair democratic principles?
asbo. just the truth wrote:So what do you call the using of postal votes of dead people to gain a majority? disallowing of working class people to vote, is that good politics? Before you start calling other people scum, how about you losing your anonimity so we can see if you are one of the greedy right?
woolstone wrote:no but we could never re-draw the electoral boundaries to shrink the numbers because the gerrymanderers oops i meant labour and nicky clogg would never sanction it. let's just call it looking after number 1
Well they have cut back on police, teachers. nurses etc., when can we cut back on MPs, do we really need so many ? How about a pay cut like most other public workers, after all we are all in this together!!!!!
Devils Advocate
says...
10:01pm Tue 15 Jan 13
asbo. just the truth
says...
10:05pm Tue 15 Jan 13
Devils Advocate wrote:think you might have lost your sense of smell!
That may well be true, but democracy is a many faceted flower and obviously offers a different perfume to noses that are of a different shade. Sadly, mine is now big, red and shiny. Probably because of all this global warming we are enduring at the moment!
Shoebury_Cyclist
says...
8:06am Wed 16 Jan 13
asbo. just the truth wrote:Recently Cameron got pi**ed off with Clegg because Clegg refused to back Cameron's gerrymandering boundary changes which would have created 20 more conservative seats.
Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:so let's just be clear about this. you support widescreen anamorphic labour gerrymandering but oppose an isolated incidence of conservative "gerrymandering
asbo. just the truth wrote:Shirley Porter was guilty of gerrymandering. What political stripe was she?
woolstone wrote:no but we could never re-draw the electoral boundaries to shrink the numbers because the gerrymanderers oops i meant labour and nicky clogg would never sanction it. let's just call it looking after number 1
Well they have cut back on police, teachers. nurses etc., when can we cut back on MPs, do we really need so many ? How about a pay cut like most other public workers, after all we are all in this together!!!!!
" sometime back in the bronze age?
You want to see this country's gerrymanderers look at the tories: http://www.telegraph
.co.uk/news/politics
/david-cameron/97977
53/PIC-AND-PUBLISH-C
ameron-renews-scrap-
with-Lib-Dem-over-bo
undary-changes.html
They know they're going to get wiped out in 2015 so the tories are attempting every dirty trick in the book to secure more seats.
Never. Trust. A. Tory.
Walt Jabsco
says...
9:15am Wed 16 Jan 13
Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:I would expand on your last point and say never trust a politician - if you can point me in the direction of one worthwhile of trust please do.
asbo. just the truth wrote:Recently Cameron got pi**ed off with Clegg because Clegg refused to back Cameron's gerrymandering boundary changes which would have created 20 more conservative seats.
Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:so let's just be clear about this. you support widescreen anamorphic labour gerrymandering but oppose an isolated incidence of conservative "gerrymandering
asbo. just the truth wrote:Shirley Porter was guilty of gerrymandering. What political stripe was she?
woolstone wrote:no but we could never re-draw the electoral boundaries to shrink the numbers because the gerrymanderers oops i meant labour and nicky clogg would never sanction it. let's just call it looking after number 1
Well they have cut back on police, teachers. nurses etc., when can we cut back on MPs, do we really need so many ? How about a pay cut like most other public workers, after all we are all in this together!!!!!
" sometime back in the bronze age?
You want to see this country's gerrymanderers look at the tories: http://www.telegraph
.co.uk/news/politics
/david-cameron/97977
53/PIC-AND-PUBLISH-C
ameron-renews-scrap-
with-Lib-Dem-over-bo
undary-changes.html
They know they're going to get wiped out in 2015 so the tories are attempting every dirty trick in the book to secure more seats.
Never. Trust. A. Tory.
Alekhine
says...
11:54am Wed 16 Jan 13
Nebs wrote:If Scotland gets independence it will have to reapply for membership of the EU. This may affect the grants it receives (chuckle).
Lets not forget that if Scotland gets its independence then there is only one possible election result for the rest of the UK.
Alekhine
says...
12:24pm Wed 16 Jan 13
Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:It does pale a bit in comparison with Labour's back door immigration policy. The ultimate in gerrymandering.
asbo. just the truth wrote:Recently Cameron got pi**ed off with Clegg because Clegg refused to back Cameron's gerrymandering boundary changes which would have created 20 more conservative seats. You want to see this country's gerrymanderers look at the tories: http://www.telegraph .co.uk/news/politics /david-cameron/97977 53/PIC-AND-PUBLISH-C ameron-renews-scrap- with-Lib-Dem-over-bo undary-changes.html They know they're going to get wiped out in 2015 so the tories are attempting every dirty trick in the book to secure more seats. Never. Trust. A. Tory.Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:so let's just be clear about this. you support widescreen anamorphic labour gerrymandering but oppose an isolated incidence of conservative "gerrymandering " sometime back in the bronze age?asbo. just the truth wrote:Shirley Porter was guilty of gerrymandering. What political stripe was she?woolstone wrote: Well they have cut back on police, teachers. nurses etc., when can we cut back on MPs, do we really need so many ? How about a pay cut like most other public workers, after all we are all in this together!!!!!no but we could never re-draw the electoral boundaries to shrink the numbers because the gerrymanderers oops i meant labour and nicky clogg would never sanction it. let's just call it looking after number 1
It was/is unsustainable/unnaff
ordable as were their policies on borrowing, benefits, war, putting the UK at the heart of the EU (did someone mention cutting the numbers of our representatives?). This is why McDoom plundered the pensions of the middle class.
Devils Advocate
says...
1:32pm Wed 16 Jan 13
"This is why McDoom plundered the pensions of the middle class."
Really? And the pensioners of the rest of the hard-working people? Or does that not matter? Just because Labour was led into a trap where they, via the right-wing and it's press, are to be blamed for the problem that was caused by the USA's gamblers, and led into more trouble by the right-wing bankers of the UK, you think it right that the working people "lower down" your imagined ladder should be made to pay?
Devils Advocate
says...
1:38pm Wed 16 Jan 13
The point is we are all in this together, except those who are well off, who are not.
Does that exposure of what is really happening have anything to do with the last Government. Or even Thatcher's Government?
asbo. just the truth
says...
3:27pm Wed 16 Jan 13
Devils Advocate wrote:you can't palm those bankers off on the right wing i'm afraid. victor blank, eric daniels and the rbs weasel were all mates of gordon bust. the usa has zero to do with how uk bankers brought the uk economy to it's knees with the blessing of gordon and tony and more banker knighthoods than you could shake a stick at
Alekhine says:
"This is why McDoom plundered the pensions of the middle class."
Really? And the pensioners of the rest of the hard-working people? Or does that not matter? Just because Labour was led into a trap where they, via the right-wing and it's press, are to be blamed for the problem that was caused by the USA's gamblers, and led into more trouble by the right-wing bankers of the UK, you think it right that the working people "lower down" your imagined ladder should be made to pay?
Alekhine
says...
3:31pm Wed 16 Jan 13
Devils Advocate wrote:MPs should live within their own rules for the public sector - simple.
Anyway,how does any of that equate with anything to do with MP's getting a rise? The point is we are all in this together, except those who are well off, who are not. Does that exposure of what is really happening have anything to do with the last Government. Or even Thatcher's Government?
Devils Advocate says
Really? And the pensioners of the rest of the hard-working people? Or does that not matter? Just because Labour was led into a trap where they, via the right-wing and it's press, are to be blamed for the problem that was caused by the USA's gamblers, and led into more trouble by the right-wing bankers of the UK, you think it right that the working people "lower down" your imagined ladder should be made to pay?
--
GB made the decision to axe tax relief on dividends paid to pension funds as chancellor in 1997. Yes, it does affect pensioners and people from all walks from your imagined ladded (i don't have a ladder).
While it is always popular with Labour to hang a banker, the banking crisis happened in 2008.
Is your nose working yet?
Lastlaugh...
says...
3:57pm Wed 16 Jan 13
They will only steal it another way if obstructed.
Devils Advocate
says...
4:23pm Wed 16 Jan 13
Alekhine wrote:It would do a lot of people some good, perhaps, if they were to look at news that is not written or modified by the British press. America still admits to the crisis, and the knock on effects that it had in Europe (including the UK) so if it is good enough for one of the proudest of nations in the world to admit to damage here, why has it to be NEW Labour (However far right that leadership was.) As for the ladder, that was because of the perceived "middle class" problem with pensions that I replied to, as if ordinary everyday working people were not affected.(I felt bad for the Mirror group workforce as well.)
Devils Advocate wrote:MPs should live within their own rules for the public sector - simple.
Anyway,how does any of that equate with anything to do with MP's getting a rise? The point is we are all in this together, except those who are well off, who are not. Does that exposure of what is really happening have anything to do with the last Government. Or even Thatcher's Government?
Devils Advocate says
Really? And the pensioners of the rest of the hard-working people? Or does that not matter? Just because Labour was led into a trap where they, via the right-wing and it's press, are to be blamed for the problem that was caused by the USA's gamblers, and led into more trouble by the right-wing bankers of the UK, you think it right that the working people "lower down" your imagined ladder should be made to pay?
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GB made the decision to axe tax relief on dividends paid to pension funds as chancellor in 1997. Yes, it does affect pensioners and people from all walks from your imagined ladded (i don't have a ladder).
While it is always popular with Labour to hang a banker, the banking crisis happened in 2008.
Is your nose working yet?
Thanks for the concern with my nose. It must be awry, as I seem to keep coming up smelling of roses! :)
JessyJar
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4:26pm Wed 16 Jan 13
how about a pay cut..
ridiculous.
Alekhine
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5:40pm Wed 16 Jan 13
Devils Advocate wrote:Thats not good, we put manure on our roses.
Alekhine wrote:It would do a lot of people some good, perhaps, if they were to look at news that is not written or modified by the British press. America still admits to the crisis, and the knock on effects that it had in Europe (including the UK) so if it is good enough for one of the proudest of nations in the world to admit to damage here, why has it to be NEW Labour (However far right that leadership was.) As for the ladder, that was because of the perceived "middle class" problem with pensions that I replied to, as if ordinary everyday working people were not affected.(I felt bad for the Mirror group workforce as well.) Thanks for the concern with my nose. It must be awry, as I seem to keep coming up smelling of roses! :)Devils Advocate wrote: Anyway,how does any of that equate with anything to do with MP's getting a rise? The point is we are all in this together, except those who are well off, who are not. Does that exposure of what is really happening have anything to do with the last Government. Or even Thatcher's Government?MPs should live within their own rules for the public sector - simple. Devils Advocate says Really? And the pensioners of the rest of the hard-working people? Or does that not matter? Just because Labour was led into a trap where they, via the right-wing and it's press, are to be blamed for the problem that was caused by the USA's gamblers, and led into more trouble by the right-wing bankers of the UK, you think it right that the working people "lower down" your imagined ladder should be made to pay? -- GB made the decision to axe tax relief on dividends paid to pension funds as chancellor in 1997. Yes, it does affect pensioners and people from all walks from your imagined ladded (i don't have a ladder). While it is always popular with Labour to hang a banker, the banking crisis happened in 2008. Is your nose working yet?
Why is there a "middle class" problem? The middle class are just ordinary workers who don't wear cloth caps. Why should their pensions be robbed by the self-proclaimed champions of ordinary people. Oh-its because NEW Labour were too right wing! - that makes me laugh but its not very funny.
Devils Advocate
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6:46pm Wed 16 Jan 13
"Why is there a "middle class" problem? The middle class are just ordinary workers who don't wear cloth caps. Why should their pensions be robbed by the self-proclaimed champions of ordinary people."
Without wishing for a protracted discussion going further and further off point, I was wondering why you brought up the supposed actions of Gordon Brown when the current concerns are what this government is doing to the pensions of the lower classes right now, and of course whether parliament is allowed to go for inflation busting rises at this time.
I do believe that NEW Labour has lost touch with it's core supporters, the very supporters who created the Labour movement. They did nothing to repair the damage done by Thatcher, they did not honour the original promise of the newly formed party over a century ago, and for that reason alone I call them right wing. Bearing in mind your party disallowed working people the vote for many years, lost below the publicity of "Votes for women" as it was!
But, the majority of working people still have loyalty to their own party, as repeated polls prove.
asbo. just the truth
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7:34pm Wed 16 Jan 13
Devils Advocate wrote:mp's salaries are a cross party issue.
Alekhine says:
"Why is there a "middle class" problem? The middle class are just ordinary workers who don't wear cloth caps. Why should their pensions be robbed by the self-proclaimed champions of ordinary people."
Without wishing for a protracted discussion going further and further off point, I was wondering why you brought up the supposed actions of Gordon Brown when the current concerns are what this government is doing to the pensions of the lower classes right now, and of course whether parliament is allowed to go for inflation busting rises at this time.
I do believe that NEW Labour has lost touch with it's core supporters, the very supporters who created the Labour movement. They did nothing to repair the damage done by Thatcher, they did not honour the original promise of the newly formed party over a century ago, and for that reason alone I call them right wing. Bearing in mind your party disallowed working people the vote for many years, lost below the publicity of "Votes for women" as it was!
But, the majority of working people still have loyalty to their own party, as repeated polls prove.
when it comes to snouts in the trough the labour mp's are as culpable as anyone else if a little less able to face up to their crimes (margaret moran and her ernest saunders-esque mental issues springs to mind)
Devils Advocate
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7:57pm Wed 16 Jan 13
If the vote for "Human rights" goes through, what then of the feckless ones? where will they stand? Or, like parliament and the sale of goods act, will it not apply to MP's?
asbo. just the truth
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8:56pm Wed 16 Jan 13
Devils Advocate wrote:i'm hoping "that poor woman" was ironic. postal votes for dead people was an isolated incident and as previously stated occurred some time back in the bronze age
That poor woman. But of course 3 labour Mp's hit the headlines for expenses fiddling, whilst 1 tory peer sat quietly in the shadows as the right-wing began their putting down of the party they had not agreed to win the election. But, about the postal votes of dead people......
If the vote for "Human rights" goes through, what then of the feckless ones? where will they stand? Or, like parliament and the sale of goods act, will it not apply to MP's?
Devils Advocate
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9:46pm Wed 16 Jan 13
Incidentally, I do not belong to any political party, they wouldn't have me!
asbo. just the truth
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9:52pm Wed 16 Jan 13
Devils Advocate
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10:02pm Wed 16 Jan 13
asbo. just the truth wrote:Er.... Jayne Mansfield?
bust by name, bust by nature.
Alekhine
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12:39pm Thu 17 Jan 13
Can you be a bit more specific with the currect concerns about changes to the state pension? I have not studied this but, In general terms, people are living longer.
The reason i brought up GBs pension raid was because 1997 was a boom year and there did not seem to be any reason to remove tax relief from employer conribution to employee pensions. It is possible that the government viewed it as just another corporate tax avoidance scheme. i.e it was politically motivated and i was not wearing my cloth cap. I wonder where the money went?
It looks like the LibDems missed a trick in not rebranding before forming government. Expect to see them as the Liberal party after the next election.
I would ask my father about votes for women but he's dead.
Shoebury_Cyclist
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4:35pm Fri 18 Jan 13
Alekhine wrote:Don't believe the hype. When the credit crisis hit the UK had the second lowest debt of all the G7 countries. Not only that but the tories are lying about the national debt, it HAS been much higher in the past. They are simply using it as an excuse to push forward their anti-social ideologies.
Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:It does pale a bit in comparison with Labour's back door immigration policy. The ultimate in gerrymandering.
asbo. just the truth wrote:Recently Cameron got pi**ed off with Clegg because Clegg refused to back Cameron's gerrymandering boundary changes which would have created 20 more conservative seats. You want to see this country's gerrymanderers look at the tories: http://www.telegraph .co.uk/news/politics /david-cameron/97977 53/PIC-AND-PUBLISH-C ameron-renews-scrap- with-Lib-Dem-over-bo undary-changes.html They know they're going to get wiped out in 2015 so the tories are attempting every dirty trick in the book to secure more seats. Never. Trust. A. Tory.Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:so let's just be clear about this. you support widescreen anamorphic labour gerrymandering but oppose an isolated incidence of conservative "gerrymandering " sometime back in the bronze age?asbo. just the truth wrote:Shirley Porter was guilty of gerrymandering. What political stripe was she?woolstone wrote: Well they have cut back on police, teachers. nurses etc., when can we cut back on MPs, do we really need so many ? How about a pay cut like most other public workers, after all we are all in this together!!!!!no but we could never re-draw the electoral boundaries to shrink the numbers because the gerrymanderers oops i meant labour and nicky clogg would never sanction it. let's just call it looking after number 1
It was/is unsustainable/unnaff
ordable as were their policies on borrowing, benefits, war, putting the UK at the heart of the EU (did someone mention cutting the numbers of our representatives?). This is why McDoom plundered the pensions of the middle class.
I suggest you read The Shock Doctrine by Naomi Klein. It's a real education. The tactics uncovered in it, proposed decades ago by Milton Friedman, could be a blueprint for current tory policy.
asbo. just the truth
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12:47pm Sat 19 Jan 13
asbo. just the truth
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12:56pm Sat 19 Jan 13
jolllyboy
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4:16pm Sat 19 Jan 13
Shoebury_Cyclist says...
3:40pm Tue 15 Jan 13