GCSE marking debacle blamed for poor results (From Echo)

Chase high school English baccalaureate results... 0%!!

Southend high school for boys English baccalaureate results... 83%!!

This just highlights how disproportionate southends education system is.

Southend councils Tory council may as well install a sign at chase high school 'abandon all hope'

If southends comprehensive schools got 1/10 of the resources that selective schools have at there disposal the results would start to level out.

Free schools are going to tip the balance even further in the wrong direction..

Its time we had one single education system in this country that supports education in a classless universal method, without bias or selection.

Jayman...if the families of the kids at these so called "resourceless" schools ensured their kids worked harder then there wouldn't be such a difference. They should try switching off Jeremey Kyle, get their obese backsides off the sofa and help their kids with their education...just like the parents of the successful schools do.
P.S. How much money has been poured into The Chase????

Bluebs wrote:
Jayman...if the families of the kids at these so called "resourceless" schools ensured their kids worked harder then there wouldn't be such a difference. They should try switching off Jeremey Kyle, get their obese backsides off the sofa and help their kids with their education...just like the parents of the successful schools do.
P.S. How much money has been poured into The Chase????

i would respond to you, But as you seem to be part of the problem and not the solution I don't think I will.

jayman wrote:

Bluebs wrote:
Jayman...if the families of the kids at these so called "resourceless" schools ensured their kids worked harder then there wouldn't be such a difference. They should try switching off Jeremey Kyle, get their obese backsides off the sofa and help their kids with their education...just like the parents of the successful schools do.
P.S. How much money has been poured into The Chase????

i would respond to you, But as you seem to be part of the problem and not the solution I don't think I will.

Some children are cleverer than others, some children want to study harder than others. Money won't change that.

jayman wrote:

Bluebs wrote:
Jayman...if the families of the kids at these so called "resourceless" schools ensured their kids worked harder then there wouldn't be such a difference. They should try switching off Jeremey Kyle, get their obese backsides off the sofa and help their kids with their education...just like the parents of the successful schools do.
P.S. How much money has been poured into The Chase????

i would respond to you, But as you seem to be part of the problem and not the solution I don't think I will.

i will answer your post script.

i said 'resources' not 'money'

throwing uncoordinated capital spending at a problem will not solve the problem itself...

This is a lesson i wish Southend council would take on board..

Part of the problem, Hows that then?....The class sizes between the schools are the same, the teachers wages are the same, the facilities are the same, in fact the resources at Chase are modern and on par or better than most schools in the county.

So why are the pupils not getting the grades of comparable schools in the area, what else can the schools do to spoon feed the kids an educational standard that matches other schools?

Do you suggest that we put the bright kids and the not at all bright kids in the same class???.Hmmm maybe not, the not so bright will struggle and the bright kids will get bored...Lets face it at the end of the day not every kid is destined to perform brain surgery, well not on this planet anyway.

Life is a meritocracy, the sooner people understand that and get off their backsides and start helping themselves , the better.

Bluebs wrote:
Part of the problem, Hows that then?....The class sizes between the schools are the same, the teachers wages are the same, the facilities are the same, in fact the resources at Chase are modern and on par or better than most schools in the county.

So why are the pupils not getting the grades of comparable schools in the area, what else can the schools do to spoon feed the kids an educational standard that matches other schools?

Do you suggest that we put the bright kids and the not at all bright kids in the same class???.Hmmm maybe not, the not so bright will struggle and the bright kids will get bored...Lets face it at the end of the day not every kid is destined to perform brain surgery, well not on this planet anyway.

Life is a meritocracy, the sooner people understand that and get off their backsides and start helping themselves , the better.

says who...

i happen to know better.

No you don't......you just think you do, hence the drivel about more resources etc etc.

There's always an excuse, for a poor grade, godd job to raise the pass marks, obviously too easy...

There's always an excuse, for a poor grade, godd job to raise the pass marks, obviously too easy...

this is not just about having the most able students. it's about being able to motivate the less able students. there is zero leadership at the chase and all concerned should hang their heads in shame

Bluebs wrote:
No you don't......you just think you do, hence the drivel about more resources etc etc.

and what you advocate the selective educational institutions..

im sure Tarquin and milly will flourish in their selective education which has been facilitated by expensive private tuition in order to pass the 11 +.

However, they may think about the fate of those not lucky enough to receive such support in the future as they stare out into the gated community they live in and watch the fires burning on the horizon.

im proposing a solution to the problem. despite how wrong that solution may be I am most certainly not advocating the current system which is a proven failure to the majority of young people who are thrown away at such an early age..

It matters not. china are a very well educated people and India provides all the slave labour our importers could ever need.

Both the poor and the affluent in our country may become equally irrelevant in a global economy..

Bluebs wrote:
Part of the problem, Hows that then?....The class sizes between the schools are the same, the teachers wages are the same, the facilities are the same, in fact the resources at Chase are modern and on par or better than most schools in the county.

So why are the pupils not getting the grades of comparable schools in the area, what else can the schools do to spoon feed the kids an educational standard that matches other schools?

Do you suggest that we put the bright kids and the not at all bright kids in the same class???.Hmmm maybe not, the not so bright will struggle and the bright kids will get bored...Lets face it at the end of the day not every kid is destined to perform brain surgery, well not on this planet anyway.

Life is a meritocracy, the sooner people understand that and get off their backsides and start helping themselves , the better.

Children not likely to have been coached to pass entrance exams by an expensive tutors; orphans &/or, good intelligent but ignorant (in the proper sense of that word not a polemic) kids with uninformed/bad/ill carers/parent/parent
s, send them, meritocratically to the ‘bad’ school?
Preclude, meritocratically, damaged out of control kids, (cliche 'hoodies' to you, but fatter) from the 'best' school & dump them in with the "obese" so that the 'best' schools are untouched with the immense costs of time, energy & money needed to keep them from hindering the education of their peers? But you’re smugly OK, it feels good to look down on people, & even, push them down?

That's the problem.jealousy, My kids are in selective schools, but neither of them had "expensive private tuition" because all that does is help kids pass the test, after which they will suffer because they don't have the natural ability to be educated at the pace and level of the grammar system.

Perhaps those not lucky enough for private tuition could switch the tele off, put the fags down and spend time educating their kids themselves instead of expecting someone else to do it for them. If the idle parents can't be bothered to look after their own kids, why the hell should mine be dragged down to the level of their unfortunate offspring.

Your post is slightly confusing, rather poetic, but confusing...er...how can the unlucky ones "stare out into the gated community they live in"..maybe stare out from....but why is it gated? The only thing holding the gate shut is their unbridled idleness and bias against people with talent and drive.

What is the solution you are proposing? Do tell.!

So according to your views on China and India, we're all doomed anyway?

Do yourself a favour, put down the Guardian, switch off Jeremy Kyle, tear up your book "Being a Victim for Dummies" and grow a pair !!!

I think you've summed it up ther "Arent we all human"

"hindering the education of their peers".....why should they be allowed to hinder the education of their peers....If I go to the cinema I don't want some ignorant selfish person to be talking on their phone all the way through...likewise when my kids go to school they don't need some ignorant selfish chav to be disrupting the lessons, because their ignorant selfish parents can't be ar$ed to teach them how to behave.

It's nothing to do with be smug or looking down on people, perhaps if you weren't so blinkered by the chips on your shoulders you might be able to see and understand.


Put all the kids who want to learn in one room and all the kids who want to mess about in another...whats the problem?

Bluebs wrote:
That's the problem.jealousy, My kids are in selective schools, but neither of them had "expensive private tuition" because all that does is help kids pass the test, after which they will suffer because they don't have the natural ability to be educated at the pace and level of the grammar system.

Perhaps those not lucky enough for private tuition could switch the tele off, put the fags down and spend time educating their kids themselves instead of expecting someone else to do it for them. If the idle parents can't be bothered to look after their own kids, why the hell should mine be dragged down to the level of their unfortunate offspring.

Your post is slightly confusing, rather poetic, but confusing...er...how can the unlucky ones "stare out into the gated community they live in"..maybe stare out from....but why is it gated? The only thing holding the gate shut is their unbridled idleness and bias against people with talent and drive.

What is the solution you are proposing? Do tell.!

So according to your views on China and India, we're all doomed anyway?

Do yourself a favour, put down the Guardian, switch off Jeremy Kyle, tear up your book "Being a Victim for Dummies" and grow a pair !!!

My solution would include the abolition of faith schools. Faith should a subject explored in class, not the foundation for an entire school.

in a global economy we will require a well educated work force, from the line itself to the line managers. We need to develop the potential of young children in a fashion that is inclusive at all levels and free from prejudice. The old methods of 'looking down' and 'outright snobbery' will only serve to stigmatise the very workforce we will need in the future.

this may be a tricky concept for right wing 'protectionists' to fathom but we all need to pull our sh;t together and dismiss old boy institutions and general nonsense. We are all the same. There is (despite how awful this concept may be to some) no such thing as 'good breading' if a parent holds down a labour intensive job they may not have the skills or time to part educate or prepare their children for a selective education. This may be more achievable if the parent of the child has an 'abstract job'..

Yep go along with the Faith School abolition. I have discovered many "born again Catholics" once their children reach secondary school age.
Inverse snobbery lessens the effect of the points you are making, however, I fail to agree with the idea that by educating everyone to the same standard is going to solve the countries problems.
Even though I have regularly come across people suffering from "over education", as an ex serviceman one of our common questions to an officer was, "FFS Sir, we are surrounded by enemy, ammunition is running low, we have many casualties and the comms have gone down,surely you must have learnt something during your degree in Ancient Hebrew Tapestry to help us,
Darwinism, survival of the fittest, call it what you want, but in order to survive, nature does not favour the mediocre.

Bluebs wrote:
Yep go along with the Faith School abolition. I have discovered many "born again Catholics" once their children reach secondary school age.
Inverse snobbery lessens the effect of the points you are making, however, I fail to agree with the idea that by educating everyone to the same standard is going to solve the countries problems.
Even though I have regularly come across people suffering from "over education", as an ex serviceman one of our common questions to an officer was, "FFS Sir, we are surrounded by enemy, ammunition is running low, we have many casualties and the comms have gone down,surely you must have learnt something during your degree in Ancient Hebrew Tapestry to help us,
Darwinism, survival of the fittest, call it what you want, but in order to survive, nature does not favour the mediocre.

your use of 'survival of the fittest' is completely out of place in the context.

this would imply a 'natural selection' is taking place. this is not the case in 'academic selection'

even Spencer was cautious at how the phrase may be used.

http://en.wikipedia.
org/wiki/Survival_of
_the_fittest

In The Man Versus The State, Spencer used the phrase in a postscript to justify a plausible explanation for why his theories would not be adopted by "societies of militant type". He uses the term in the context of societies at war, and the form of his reference suggests that he is applying a general principle.

"Thus by survival of the fittest, the militant type of society becomes characterized by profound confidence in the governing power, joined with a loyalty causing submission to it in all matters whatever".

be very careful how you use this 'term' in anything that is not a 'natural process'

It has been used by deplorable ideologies in the past.

I served in the army, i developed a lot of my world views whilst in service and I see the same problem in every society in most countries in the world. The same solution presents itself as a remedy. the same reasons are given to dismiss it, by the same type of person.

"The same solution presents itself as a remedy. the same reasons are given to dismiss it, by the same type of person."

Bit flowery...got any idea what it means? Since leaving the army, it sounds like you've had your head in Pyschology and Sociology books, some good theories in such books, but too much thinking and not enough action.

Survival of the fittest...simple terms....don't use all your resources on things unlikely to succeed, in a world of finite resources we should target them accordingly to the best success chance. Obviously we don't want the Hitler version, but likewise we don't want the Labour Governments "Every body gets a degree and a big car each.
Back to the main point...why shouldn't we teach kids at the pace that is most suitable for the kids...bright ones or "those with an ability to learn quickly" go to one school and the kids who need more time, or can't be ar$ed go to another school.
The constant strive for measuring performance and having league tables is ammunition for the slack and lazy to whinge about those people trying their best who get rewarded for their efforts.
In order to understand why schools need to be selective, have a look through The Chase Ofsted report.

Bluebs wrote:
"The same solution presents itself as a remedy. the same reasons are given to dismiss it, by the same type of person."

Bit flowery...got any idea what it means? Since leaving the army, it sounds like you've had your head in Pyschology and Sociology books, some good theories in such books, but too much thinking and not enough action.

Survival of the fittest...simple terms....don't use all your resources on things unlikely to succeed, in a world of finite resources we should target them accordingly to the best success chance. Obviously we don't want the Hitler version, but likewise we don't want the Labour Governments "Every body gets a degree and a big car each.
Back to the main point...why shouldn't we teach kids at the pace that is most suitable for the kids...bright ones or "those with an ability to learn quickly" go to one school and the kids who need more time, or can't be ar$ed go to another school.
The constant strive for measuring performance and having league tables is ammunition for the slack and lazy to whinge about those people trying their best who get rewarded for their efforts.
In order to understand why schools need to be selective, have a look through The Chase Ofsted report.

I can only take comfort in the fact that within this thread you have gone from the extreme right wing to a point where you are starting to see sense.

There could be a selective process within schools. why have a separate institution. why separate 'finite resources'

when any resource becomes scarce it becomes more important to centralise it.

i would be in favour of less choice with better outcomes.

Not sure which track you've taken...Are you saying one huge school with all the kids in it...Southend Borough has over 10000 secondary school places...that would be impractical and downright scary for the kids.
Or are you saying local schools for the kids in that area, in which case, Cecil Jones would cover all the council house estates in that area.....Belfairs would get all the expensive households from the Marine Estate, which is what the catchement areas are.
The selective process within schools..well that already happens with the streaming for options,
It would appear that the only problem is the jealousy towards grammar schools, the posh kids of Tarquin and Millie having expensive private tutors, well sorry , but thats not always the case, some of them have been taught to work hard and respect their selves and others.
Maybe others could have their kids taught privately by cutting back on other expenses, like the latest mobile phone and the speed dial to the latest premium telephone voting number for the current Big Brother diving on ice get me out of here.

Bluebs wrote:
Not sure which track you've taken...Are you saying one huge school with all the kids in it...Southend Borough has over 10000 secondary school places...that would be impractical and downright scary for the kids.
Or are you saying local schools for the kids in that area, in which case, Cecil Jones would cover all the council house estates in that area.....Belfairs would get all the expensive households from the Marine Estate, which is what the catchement areas are.
The selective process within schools..well that already happens with the streaming for options,
It would appear that the only problem is the jealousy towards grammar schools, the posh kids of Tarquin and Millie having expensive private tutors, well sorry , but thats not always the case, some of them have been taught to work hard and respect their selves and others.
Maybe others could have their kids taught privately by cutting back on other expenses, like the latest mobile phone and the speed dial to the latest premium telephone voting number for the current Big Brother diving on ice get me out of here.

what I'm saying is that the government's plans to create free schools and more selective schools will only provide a more fragmented educational system.

The desire for children to learn comes from the early awareness of what education is actually for.

children need to believe that they will secure a good job for their efforts. Children also need to feel that the schools name that they have attended as wrote on a CV will have no bearing on there chances at getting the job. Only the qualifications awarded.

Children need to see the wood for the trees at an early age. A fragmented system will only make this early perception of the educational system and its outcomes worst.

oh, and I retract my earlier statement about your discovery of tolerance. It seems you have had a relapse.

do try to stay focused. dismiss the desire to dispense unfounded fear and loathing, otherwise i will have to stigmatise you as a sun journalist. And that's the worst insult in the world. lol

Free schools offer choice which is what people want..not sure if they do want choice, probably just a good education for their children.
The kids won't get the awareness from the schools,any school that 's got to come from the home, without wishing to ignite another bonfire, but Crays Hill School...how many more resources do we spend on such a lost cause.

I am focused, I have no fear or loathing, founded or unfounded, I do have a good knowledge of the workings of such chav families though.

Sun journalist??...no such thing although if you'd implied being a Gurniad or Star crayoner, then you'd be getting a knock at the door.

Keep up the crusade.
Regards.

The problem with low grades has a lot to do with the quality of the teaching. Grammar schools tend to rely on the inteligence of their pupils to ensure high grades rather than rely on teaching quality. It also helps that the kids in grammar schools are also conditioned, by their parents and the school, to feel that it is a privilege to be at the school and any failure will not only let themselves down but they will let everyone around them down.
Other schools do not have this luxury of that type of pupil.
A lot of graduates leave university to become teachers (it is the only job that graduates have a realistic chance of getting these days), not knowing how to teach. Schools employ a lot of these graduates as NQTs because they are cheaper...a LOT cheaper. However, this strategy, even though very poor, does not seem to affect the grammar system as much for reasons I have explained. However, in the comprehensive and academy schools, a large proportion of the kids tend not to want to learn and/or are disruptive because teachers do not have the skills to engage them into learning.
These days, very few teachers coming through the system have the vocational aspirations or drive to make them good teachers. I am not saying all new teachers are poor at their jobs but there are enough in the education system to damage it. If it continues like it has been then we are going to stuggle to get back the quality of education that made us the envy of the world. After all, most of the good teachers have already retired, or are in the process of doing so.

Perhaps it was the bad weather days they missed last winter ?

http://www.bbc.co.uk
/news/education-2121
8072

this echoes what i have been saying in the above comments.

enjoy :)

the grammar school monopoly on 'good education' is a thing of the past.

another well thought out point of view.

http://www.bbc.co.uk
/news/education-2118
0679

jayman wrote:

Bluebs wrote:
"The same solution presents itself as a remedy. the same reasons are given to dismiss it, by the same type of person."

Bit flowery...got any idea what it means? Since leaving the army, it sounds like you've had your head in Pyschology and Sociology books, some good theories in such books, but too much thinking and not enough action.

Survival of the fittest...simple terms....don't use all your resources on things unlikely to succeed, in a world of finite resources we should target them accordingly to the best success chance. Obviously we don't want the Hitler version, but likewise we don't want the Labour Governments "Every body gets a degree and a big car each.
Back to the main point...why shouldn't we teach kids at the pace that is most suitable for the kids...bright ones or "those with an ability to learn quickly" go to one school and the kids who need more time, or can't be ar$ed go to another school.
The constant strive for measuring performance and having league tables is ammunition for the slack and lazy to whinge about those people trying their best who get rewarded for their efforts.
In order to understand why schools need to be selective, have a look through The Chase Ofsted report.

I can only take comfort in the fact that within this thread you have gone from the extreme right wing to a point where you are starting to see sense.

There could be a selective process within schools. why have a separate institution. why separate 'finite resources'

when any resource becomes scarce it becomes more important to centralise it.

i would be in favour of less choice with better outcomes.

Compared to you Jayman I think everyone has extreme right views, you are so far to the left you are of the scale.

BinDipper wrote:

jayman wrote:

Bluebs wrote:
"The same solution presents itself as a remedy. the same reasons are given to dismiss it, by the same type of person."

Bit flowery...got any idea what it means? Since leaving the army, it sounds like you've had your head in Pyschology and Sociology books, some good theories in such books, but too much thinking and not enough action.

Survival of the fittest...simple terms....don't use all your resources on things unlikely to succeed, in a world of finite resources we should target them accordingly to the best success chance. Obviously we don't want the Hitler version, but likewise we don't want the Labour Governments "Every body gets a degree and a big car each.
Back to the main point...why shouldn't we teach kids at the pace that is most suitable for the kids...bright ones or "those with an ability to learn quickly" go to one school and the kids who need more time, or can't be ar$ed go to another school.
The constant strive for measuring performance and having league tables is ammunition for the slack and lazy to whinge about those people trying their best who get rewarded for their efforts.
In order to understand why schools need to be selective, have a look through The Chase Ofsted report.

I can only take comfort in the fact that within this thread you have gone from the extreme right wing to a point where you are starting to see sense.

There could be a selective process within schools. why have a separate institution. why separate 'finite resources'

when any resource becomes scarce it becomes more important to centralise it.

i would be in favour of less choice with better outcomes.

Compared to you Jayman I think everyone has extreme right views, you are so far to the left you are of the scale.

I think I speak for balance. For a start I disagree with a lot of labour ideas. but I think of the Tories with utter irreverence. ethics and fairness with a pragmatic approach is what I stand for..

Having read through all this, I agree with Bluebs on the reality of modern day society, yes, Jayman has a admirable ideal "educational equality for all" but I think needs to give more weighting to the lack of principle, morals and ideals amongst a lot of working class kids due to the flippant attitude of their parents with their "Blame everybody else/let us have everthing for free" culture.
Kids with this attitude do not want to work hard, why should they if their role model parents are inept
I'm working class, earn uk average salary, my kids come before fags,(I gave up months before 1st was born) beer or a staffie. My wife dosen't pump out babies like an afterthought and I haven't left her at the first sign of responsibility I'm not fat as I don't sit on my aXXe all day, We live in a deprived area, I don't claim anything apart from Childrens allowance( to be spent on kids not on fags!) I'm not not covered in tats,I wash every day and my clothes aren't days old , my oldest goes to a local grammer school through our combined hard work (No expensive tutor) is well behaved and has a clear understanding of wrong and right. He trives at the grammer school and is doing very well.Its not an elitist club, anyone can join if and only if you put in the time with your kids, ensuring that they are working hard and not slumming about. I lead by example and I don't **** if his mates parents have higher standards of living than he does (they have worked hard for it good luck to them!)
He only ever asks when i'm off work to spend time with him rather than wanting material items as a replacement. Its possible for anyone to do this if they stop moaning and try!

MUSHY wrote:
Having read through all this, I agree with Bluebs on the reality of modern day society, yes, Jayman has a admirable ideal "educational equality for all" but I think needs to give more weighting to the lack of principle, morals and ideals amongst a lot of working class kids due to the flippant attitude of their parents with their "Blame everybody else/let us have everthing for free" culture.
Kids with this attitude do not want to work hard, why should they if their role model parents are inept
I'm working class, earn uk average salary, my kids come before fags,(I gave up months before 1st was born) beer or a staffie. My wife dosen't pump out babies like an afterthought and I haven't left her at the first sign of responsibility I'm not fat as I don't sit on my aXXe all day, We live in a deprived area, I don't claim anything apart from Childrens allowance( to be spent on kids not on fags!) I'm not not covered in tats,I wash every day and my clothes aren't days old , my oldest goes to a local grammer school through our combined hard work (No expensive tutor) is well behaved and has a clear understanding of wrong and right. He trives at the grammer school and is doing very well.Its not an elitist club, anyone can join if and only if you put in the time with your kids, ensuring that they are working hard and not slumming about. I lead by example and I don't **** if his mates parents have higher standards of living than he does (they have worked hard for it good luck to them!)
He only ever asks when i'm off work to spend time with him rather than wanting material items as a replacement. Its possible for anyone to do this if they stop moaning and try!

The first three lines of your comment where excellent.

trying to be polite as possible to the rest of your comment. I can only advise you that all you have highlighted in the rest of your comment is a deep minority 'sub culture' within our society.

Thousands of parents send there children to school in Southend with all the preparation and resources that are available to them.

Going off on a Daily mail, right wing, assumption fuelled monologue of difference will only serve to undermine any sensible argument you have to put across.

(F-) try harder...

the dam has a crack in it (metaphor for our education system)

what is the solution to this impending flood.

1) the right wing idea.

Lets all stand on the bank of the dam outlet and shout at the dam. "you have let us all down" "dams are scum" "we spent good money on you" ect. the right wing then remove 1/4 of the dams surface and reallocate the concrete to other non damaged areas surrounding the dam.

the dam instantly breaches. everyone drowns in equal measure.

the left wing idea.

a committee is instantly formed to look into the causes of the dam crack. three weeks of debate are allocated to explore the problem. A 180ft wall of twenty pound notes is erected to stem the flow of the dam breach.

Everyone drowns in equal measure.

the pragmatic idea.

Fix the dam as quickly as possible. construct a new dam as the old dams structure has been compromised. Allow water pressure to escape from the reservoir in a controlled way without being selective about which water molecules you allow to pass into the run off.

WOW hold up! I went to futures community college & i was in top sets for every class other than pe which i absolutely hated as im a business & it girl, i didnt even know how to use a apostrophe! I would of failed my exams last year if i didnt leave and home educate myself! Futures had a lovely fancy building but nothing in the slighest to help towards education! Teachers werent great, the timetable wasnt great, had an hour to learn tonns? Schools need fixing & quick! By the time i have children i hope to god its better! Infact when i left school there was more girls pregnant that girls with gcses!