Southend railway bridge replacement goes smoothly (From Echo)

i will say it again. It cost 2 million to replace a rail bridge which is a precision engineering task.

it costs SBC

~*15 million*~

to re layout a junction. that's £15,000,000.00.

i can only conclude that C2C and its parent company are more mindful of shareholders and customer then SBC are mindful to residents and taxpayers..

jayman wrote:
i will say it again. It cost 2 million to replace a rail bridge which is a precision engineering task. it costs SBC ~*15 million*~ to re layout a junction. that's £15,000,000.00. i can only conclude that C2C and its parent company are more mindful of shareholders and customer then SBC are mindful to residents and taxpayers..

Which road junction cost 15 million?

http://www.echo-news
.co.uk/news/local_ne
ws/southend/9353932.
Plan_for_new_crossin
g_at_A127_Kent_Elms_
Corner/

'above' costed at 15 million.

also.

this one was costed at 7.5 million

also

this one was costed at 5 million.

then their is the prior crescent fiasco which I am unable to find a final costing of...

jayman wrote:
http://www.echo-news

.co.uk/news/local_ne

ws/southend/9353932.

Plan_for_new_crossin

g_at_A127_Kent_Elms_

Corner/

'above' costed at 15 million.

also.

this one was costed at 7.5 million

also

this one was costed at 5 million.

then their is the prior crescent fiasco which I am unable to find a final costing of...

sorry. forgot to provide links to the other two.

http://www.echo-news
.co.uk/news/local_ne
ws/southend/9771535.
__5m_could_end_the_A
127_bottlenecks/

and

http://www.echo-news
.co.uk/news/9890546.
Skateboarders____rui
ning____7_5m_public_
square_at_Victoria_G
ateway_in_Southend/

jayman wrote:

jayman wrote:
http://www.echo-news


.co.uk/news/local_ne


ws/southend/9353932.


Plan_for_new_crossin


g_at_A127_Kent_Elms_


Corner/

'above' costed at 15 million.

also.

this one was costed at 7.5 million

also

this one was costed at 5 million.

then their is the prior crescent fiasco which I am unable to find a final costing of...

sorry. forgot to provide links to the other two.

http://www.echo-news

.co.uk/news/local_ne

ws/southend/9771535.

__5m_could_end_the_A

127_bottlenecks/

and

http://www.echo-news

.co.uk/news/9890546.

Skateboarders____rui

ning____7_5m_public_

square_at_Victoria_G

ateway_in_Southend/

oh and i must take a moment to point out an inaccuracy I have made.

the final cost of Victoria junction as i said above at 7.5 million. this was just for the slabs of concrete that now form the public square. the actual final cost of the whole Victoria junction layout was as quoted in the echo.

"As part of £25million improvements, the area was transformed from an ageing roundabout to a modernised T-junction. The project included laying new paving outside Southend Victoria railway station, installing benches and redesigning the public walkway leading to the High Street. " end quote

was ~*25 million*~!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!

£25M Was for the four Projects, City Beach, Progress Road, Cuckoo Corner and Victoria Gateway. Apart from Victoria Gateway, money well spent.

And in your first link it doesn't state the £15 million is just for Kent Elms, also as we don't know what the plans for Kent Elms are we cannot tell whether it is value for money.
Either way, you cannot compare any of the above with removing and replacing a small Iron Railway bridge.

j-w wrote:
£25M Was for the four Projects, City Beach, Progress Road, Cuckoo Corner and Victoria Gateway. Apart from Victoria Gateway, money well spent.

And in your first link it doesn't state the £15 million is just for Kent Elms, also as we don't know what the plans for Kent Elms are we cannot tell whether it is value for money.
Either way, you cannot compare any of the above with removing and replacing a small Iron Railway bridge.

i can compare the two quite legitimately.

the steel used on a railway bridge has to be of the highest grade and has to be treated to protect against the elements for decades to come. A survey of the bridge supports and the surrounding area has to be conducted. the overhead wires have to be removed. the ballast and track have to be lifted the new bridge has to be placed with a margin for error of just millimetres. all this for two million pounds.

if southends Tories where tasked with the same job it would have cost 90 million, it would have taken three years to complete and the first train to go over would have gone up and down like it was going over an elastic band..

j-w wrote:
£25M Was for the four Projects, City Beach, Progress Road, Cuckoo Corner and Victoria Gateway. Apart from Victoria Gateway, money well spent.

And in your first link it doesn't state the £15 million is just for Kent Elms, also as we don't know what the plans for Kent Elms are we cannot tell whether it is value for money.
Either way, you cannot compare any of the above with removing and replacing a small Iron Railway bridge.

i can compare the two quite legitimately.

the steel used on a railway bridge has to be of the highest grade and has to be treated to protect against the elements for decades to come. A survey of the bridge supports and the surrounding area has to be conducted. the overhead wires have to be removed. the ballast and track have to be lifted the new bridge has to be placed with a margin for error of just millimetres. all this for two million pounds.

if southends Tories where tasked with the same job it would have cost 90 million, it would have taken three years to complete and the first train to go over would have gone up and down like it was going over an elastic band..

Nothing alike, no matter how you dress it up, a pre fabricated bridge replacement on a closed railway line is considerably easier than redesigning and implementing major road junction reconstruction whilst keeping the roads open and usable.

Jayman - one thing I have noticed, the bridge cost 2 million - but what about the works? Don't forget, with a road junction, months are required, workforces need paying, equipment needs hiring etc etc. Then there's the planning prior to the works, on top of the materials.

The story states the replacement bridge cost £2 million, but what about the cost of the weeks of perperations prior to the removal and installation - and the cost of the workforce, and equipment for this weekend of work?

If you can find the total cost for the work, average it out per day, and do the same with one of the road junctions, then I'd be interested in the results, and if the road works come out at a far far higher cost, then I'll obviously respect your stance :)

But until that information is presented, I can't accept your argument yet.

jayman wrote:
i will say it again. It cost 2 million to replace a rail bridge which is a precision engineering task.

it costs SBC

~*15 million*~

to re layout a junction. that's £15,000,000.00.

i can only conclude that C2C and its parent company are more mindful of shareholders and customer then SBC are mindful to residents and taxpayers..

Nothing to do with c2c or National Express the work was done for Network Rail.

Largest crowd the High st has seen for years..perhaps it should become a regular event!!!!!!!!

Would anyone else consider the bridge as "iconic"? I'm not sure I would.

Leighdweller wrote:
Would anyone else consider the bridge as "iconic"? I'm not sure I would.

The new one looks far nicer!

echoforum wrote:
Largest crowd the High st has seen for years..perhaps it should become a regular event!!!!!!!!

that was just the queue for any form of compensation they thought they might be able to get...

Cosmo Spring wrote:

echoforum wrote:
Largest crowd the High st has seen for years..perhaps it should become a regular event!!!!!!!!

that was just the queue for any form of compensation they thought they might be able to get...

Not really. this is because the railways don't go 'over' houses. They tend to be mostly on embankments and cuttings ect. Also railways are a daily necessity and are a practical and 'socially enabling' means of mass transport.

reptile wrote:

jayman wrote:
i will say it again. It cost 2 million to replace a rail bridge which is a precision engineering task.

it costs SBC

~*15 million*~

to re layout a junction. that's £15,000,000.00.

i can only conclude that C2C and its parent company are more mindful of shareholders and customer then SBC are mindful to residents and taxpayers..

Nothing to do with c2c or National Express the work was done for Network Rail.

to facilitate the continued operations and profits of C2C AKA national express to serve Southend east, Thorpe bay, shoeburyness, the shoeburyness depo and the MOD pigs bay sidings at shoeburyness..

j-w wrote:
Nothing alike, no matter how you dress it up, a pre fabricated bridge replacement on a closed railway line is considerably easier than redesigning and implementing major road junction reconstruction whilst keeping the roads open and usable.

I suppose in a sense you are right. one is a efficient precision engineering job that will last generations. the other is a careless, overpriced waste of public money that will last a couple of years.

Last last 100 plus years so not bad for technology available at the time of building. With today's advances in materials and construction I wonder if the new one will last even longer?!?

jayman wrote:

j-w wrote:
Nothing alike, no matter how you dress it up, a pre fabricated bridge replacement on a closed railway line is considerably easier than redesigning and implementing major road junction reconstruction whilst keeping the roads open and usable.

I suppose in a sense you are right. one is a efficient precision engineering job that will last generations. the other is a careless, overpriced waste of public money that will last a couple of years.

In your opinion. Users of Priory crescent and the A127 at Progress Road may beg to differ and are happy to see investment in the area as they move along the road instead of sitting in traffic. (already in use for a couple of years)

j-w wrote:
£25M Was for the four Projects, City Beach, Progress Road, Cuckoo Corner and Victoria Gateway. Apart from Victoria Gateway, money well spent. And in your first link it doesn't state the £15 million is just for Kent Elms, also as we don't know what the plans for Kent Elms are we cannot tell whether it is value for money. Either way, you cannot compare any of the above with removing and replacing a small Iron Railway bridge.

You jest surely! If you think that was money well spent then you obviously don't ever use any of those sites. They are far worse than before. As for the bridge. Job done. Now we just need the High Street replaced

Well I can't remember the last time I was stuck in a long queue of traffic on Priory Crescent or coming up to Progress Road or even meandering a nice slow speed through City Beach, so no I am not joking. Maybe I am just lucky when I use those areas and I was very unlucky when I used them before the works?

jayman wrote:

j-w wrote: Nothing alike, no matter how you dress it up, a pre fabricated bridge replacement on a closed railway line is considerably easier than redesigning and implementing major road junction reconstruction whilst keeping the roads open and usable.

I suppose in a sense you are right. one is a efficient precision engineering job that will last generations. the other is a careless, overpriced waste of public money that will last a couple of years.

Jayman - would you mind responding to my point raised earlier? Do you have the total figure for the work undertaken including the £2 million cost of the bridge itself prior to any work?

I feel quite emotionally disturbed by the whole business,so I 'll be putting in a claim

Not to mention the millions that SBC keep saying they are applying for (and getting) for improvements to the bus service in the town - which never happens.

Noteworthy wrote:

jayman wrote:

j-w wrote: Nothing alike, no matter how you dress it up, a pre fabricated bridge replacement on a closed railway line is considerably easier than redesigning and implementing major road junction reconstruction whilst keeping the roads open and usable.

I suppose in a sense you are right. one is a efficient precision engineering job that will last generations. the other is a careless, overpriced waste of public money that will last a couple of years.

Jayman - would you mind responding to my point raised earlier? Do you have the total figure for the work undertaken including the £2 million cost of the bridge itself prior to any work?

since network rail have surveyors and engineers in their talent pool all the prep work would have incurred little or no extra cost.

as for any exact extra costs, ask network rail.

southends talent pool consists of a handful of councillors who are happy to sign for any scheme regardless of cost. A handful of classically educated departmental heads who don't know the price of a hammer or a ton of concrete and some works and parks employees who do know the price of such things and who are not listened to!

thats the state of play at Southend council..

j-w wrote:
£25M Was for the four Projects, City Beach, Progress Road, Cuckoo Corner and Victoria Gateway. Apart from Victoria Gateway, money well spent.

And in your first link it doesn't state the £15 million is just for Kent Elms, also as we don't know what the plans for Kent Elms are we cannot tell whether it is value for money.
Either way, you cannot compare any of the above with removing and replacing a small Iron Railway bridge.

On the other thread about the bridge works I made the point that to compare the replacement of a Railway Bridge such as that over the High Street to the rebuilding of a road junctions shows a distinct lack of knowledge in civil engineering matters.

As has been stated the £25million jayman keeps on about was for the entire Better Southend project, this included City Beach, Progress Road, Cuckoo Corner and Victoria Gateway and NOT just one junction, this is something that needs to be made abundantly clear.

Why anyone would want to mislead people who do not know the full and true story is the question.

if Southend council published a breakdown of costs 'per project' for the purposes of transparency.

it would be interesting to know how much Southend council are being charged for a few slabs of concrete

and also took the time to publish its minuets on the council website in an up to date and user friendly fashion so that the residents of Southend can clearly see that scrutiny is full, thorough and published 'clearly'

then perhaps I would accept your points.

25 million for three junctions and a controversial and oddly named seafront project is doing SBC no form of defence. especially when you consider what 25 million would buy in todays austere times..

Do you have any experience in civil engineering and its related technical procedures from design to realisation and costing?

If you wish to gain the costing per-project you need to submit a Freedom of Information request directly to the council, this will enable you to have all the information you require, however if you lack the knowledge of the way large scale civil engineering projects work then you would make a judgement on what basic “home” DIY projects you might have undertaken yourself.

A council cannot go and buy off the shelf from Homebase or B&Q each park is specially made and cut to size either at the plant or onsite, the volume and durability of public works is higher than those used for home projects.

The minuets are published as I have downloaded them in the past.

When the Better Southend scheme was progressing the country was still spending big but taxing low, when the crash happened it was too late the money had been spent, it is a comment of a simpleton to now claim that the money should not have been spent and it would help more now, hindsight is a wonderful thing, don’t you think.

You refuse to accept our points on what the £25million was spent on but would you admit that it is like likes of J-W and myself who are right on stating what the money was spent on.

To refuse the facts is a sign of a man who has lost the argument.

Joe Wildman-Clark wrote:
Do you have any experience in civil engineering and its related technical procedures from design to realisation and costing?

If you wish to gain the costing per-project you need to submit a Freedom of Information request directly to the council, this will enable you to have all the information you require, however if you lack the knowledge of the way large scale civil engineering projects work then you would make a judgement on what basic “home” DIY projects you might have undertaken yourself.

A council cannot go and buy off the shelf from Homebase or B&Q each park is specially made and cut to size either at the plant or onsite, the volume and durability of public works is higher than those used for home projects.

The minuets are published as I have downloaded them in the past.

When the Better Southend scheme was progressing the country was still spending big but taxing low, when the crash happened it was too late the money had been spent, it is a comment of a simpleton to now claim that the money should not have been spent and it would help more now, hindsight is a wonderful thing, don’t you think.

You refuse to accept our points on what the £25million was spent on but would you admit that it is like likes of J-W and myself who are right on stating what the money was spent on.

To refuse the facts is a sign of a man who has lost the argument.

nope. but i know how to cost a hammer at £25 and i know how to cost a ton of concrete at £1700.

your comment of

A council cannot go and buy off the shelf from Homebase or B&Q each park is specially made and cut to size either at the plant or onsite, the volume and durability of public works is higher than those used for home projects.

what.. so what's to say that the council cant employ temp builders, source materials, hire plant ect ect. there is nothing in European rules regarding tendering for construction contracts that says SBC cant 'do it themselves'. This would save millions, Southend could then have apprentices working on site to gain skills. that's a novel idea.

how about this, 'Southend community building company' (like the name) also undertakes work for other councils. £££££££ saved.

25 million was spent. how much was scraped off the top for profit?

your other point.

The minuets are published as I have downloaded them in the past.

you must mean the document that is in font size 4 and requires two pages and a sub page to get to. the easy to click easy to navigate options of the councils home page are a distant memory when you get to the parts relating to what our councillors actually say in chamber.

you said at 7:42

"You refuse to accept our points on what the £25million was spent on but would you admit that it is like likes of J-W and myself who are right on stating what the money was spent on."

i said at 7:12

25 million for three junctions and a controversial and oddly named seafront project is doing SBC no form of defence. especially when you consider what 25 million would buy in todays austere times..

and no.. i have already won the point. an 'argument' implies something completely different..

The size of the Council projects meant they must have gone through the European procurement system. Why did no one bid lower? Huge numbers of civil building contractors would have looked at. Did these highly specialised experts know something?

abd123 wrote:
The size of the Council projects meant they must have gone through the European procurement system. Why did no one bid lower? Huge numbers of civil building contractors would have looked at. Did these highly specialised experts know something?

True that the project would have had to go out to tender, sadly some people will still find fault with how the system works as they are ignorant of the facts, and fail to even carry out the most basic of research to find the information for themselves expecting others to explain it to them, yet then it is they still fail to accept that the facts are the facts and dispute the fact of the facts.

To claim ignorance is arrogance.

Joe Wildman-Clark wrote:

abd123 wrote:
The size of the Council projects meant they must have gone through the European procurement system. Why did no one bid lower? Huge numbers of civil building contractors would have looked at. Did these highly specialised experts know something?

True that the project would have had to go out to tender, sadly some people will still find fault with how the system works as they are ignorant of the facts, and fail to even carry out the most basic of research to find the information for themselves expecting others to explain it to them, yet then it is they still fail to accept that the facts are the facts and dispute the fact of the facts.

To claim ignorance is arrogance.

Its Southend councils job to keep us informed, so we can then make an informed decision on who runs the council.

why sir, you display the same arrogant and complacent attitude that the common lesser spotted Tory councillor displays.

Joe Wildman-Clark wrote:
Do you have any experience in civil engineering and its related technical procedures from design to realisation and costing?

If you wish to gain the costing per-project you need to submit a Freedom of Information request directly to the council, this will enable you to have all the information you require, however if you lack the knowledge of the way large scale civil engineering projects work then you would make a judgement on what basic “home” DIY projects you might have undertaken yourself.

A council cannot go and buy off the shelf from Homebase or B&Q each park is specially made and cut to size either at the plant or onsite, the volume and durability of public works is higher than those used for home projects.

The minuets are published as I have downloaded them in the past.

When the Better Southend scheme was progressing the country was still spending big but taxing low, when the crash happened it was too late the money had been spent, it is a comment of a simpleton to now claim that the money should not have been spent and it would help more now, hindsight is a wonderful thing, don’t you think.

You refuse to accept our points on what the £25million was spent on but would you admit that it is like likes of J-W and myself who are right on stating what the money was spent on.

To refuse the facts is a sign of a man who has lost the argument.

JW. I must pick up on one of your comments about the durability. Have you looked closely at the Seafront or Victoria Avenue works. I think you'll find the pavements are loos and rocking and the seafront is sinking badly. The road surface at Victoia ave is cracking. Look at the High Street, does that look like it had 17 million spent on it only a few years ago? Quality has gone down greatly since the council got rid of all it's engineers.
Jayman. I think you'll find a to. Of concrete will cost a lot less than the £1700 you quoted.

The__Truth wrote:

Joe Wildman-Clark wrote:
Do you have any experience in civil engineering and its related technical procedures from design to realisation and costing?

If you wish to gain the costing per-project you need to submit a Freedom of Information request directly to the council, this will enable you to have all the information you require, however if you lack the knowledge of the way large scale civil engineering projects work then you would make a judgement on what basic “home” DIY projects you might have undertaken yourself.

A council cannot go and buy off the shelf from Homebase or B&Q each park is specially made and cut to size either at the plant or onsite, the volume and durability of public works is higher than those used for home projects.

The minuets are published as I have downloaded them in the past.

When the Better Southend scheme was progressing the country was still spending big but taxing low, when the crash happened it was too late the money had been spent, it is a comment of a simpleton to now claim that the money should not have been spent and it would help more now, hindsight is a wonderful thing, don’t you think.

You refuse to accept our points on what the £25million was spent on but would you admit that it is like likes of J-W and myself who are right on stating what the money was spent on.

To refuse the facts is a sign of a man who has lost the argument.

JW. I must pick up on one of your comments about the durability. Have you looked closely at the Seafront or Victoria Avenue works. I think you'll find the pavements are loos and rocking and the seafront is sinking badly. The road surface at Victoia ave is cracking. Look at the High Street, does that look like it had 17 million spent on it only a few years ago? Quality has gone down greatly since the council got rid of all it's engineers.
Jayman. I think you'll find a to. Of concrete will cost a lot less than the £1700 you quoted.

sorry. I was being facetious regarding the costs of the two items. :)

It's fantastic that you can cost a hammer - now what about cranes, diggers, drills, equipment for stripping tarmac, tarmac itself (roads are not made of concrete after all), lorries to bring the tarmac, rollers, etc etc.

Do you want the council to buy all this? Then leave it lying about for a couple of years after it's been used? Why would anyone else need to buy them from the council when they have deals going with the manufacturers direct to resupply when their equipment becomes obsolete?

And you're not just talking about 50 - 60 workers, you're talking hundreds, machine operators, drivers, layers, diggers etc. Then the people to oversee them. Apprentices maybe, but they'll need experienced people to check the work, and obviously have to have the training on the equipment they are using...

Just a basic bit of digging (pardon the pun) on the internet and I found a company that hires the big diggers (not the little one with narrow buckets) for £300 a day. that's probably still not what you need for a big project but I'll roll with it...

Say you need 10 of them, and for an 18 month project, you need them for a year. That's £1,095,000 of your budget. Then, you'll need people to drive them. Pay them say, £250 a week, that's £130,000... so the total is £1,225,000 on diggers and drivers.

Still got the rest of the equipment, fuel and materials to buy in. Plus disposal of the old materials.

Noteworthy wrote:
Just a basic bit of digging (pardon the pun) on the internet and I found a company that hires the big diggers (not the little one with narrow buckets) for £300 a day. that's probably still not what you need for a big project but I'll roll with it...

Say you need 10 of them, and for an 18 month project, you need them for a year. That's £1,095,000 of your budget. Then, you'll need people to drive them. Pay them say, £250 a week, that's £130,000... so the total is £1,225,000 on diggers and drivers.

Still got the rest of the equipment, fuel and materials to buy in. Plus disposal of the old materials.

10 diggers for an 18 month project..

what are they clearing? mount snowdon.

two diggers for three months, If the project is managed correctly and not prolonged to maximise profit..

Noteworthy wrote:
It's fantastic that you can cost a hammer - now what about cranes, diggers, drills, equipment for stripping tarmac, tarmac itself (roads are not made of concrete after all), lorries to bring the tarmac, rollers, etc etc.

Do you want the council to buy all this? Then leave it lying about for a couple of years after it's been used? Why would anyone else need to buy them from the council when they have deals going with the manufacturers direct to resupply when their equipment becomes obsolete?

And you're not just talking about 50 - 60 workers, you're talking hundreds, machine operators, drivers, layers, diggers etc. Then the people to oversee them. Apprentices maybe, but they'll need experienced people to check the work, and obviously have to have the training on the equipment they are using...

oh.. an hammers don't cost £25 each.. im glad you don't work for the council.

that's precisely the problem with the council.

most of the decision makers are of a particular education that does not give them the ability to look past their noses.

jayman wrote:

Noteworthy wrote:
It's fantastic that you can cost a hammer - now what about cranes, diggers, drills, equipment for stripping tarmac, tarmac itself (roads are not made of concrete after all), lorries to bring the tarmac, rollers, etc etc.

Do you want the council to buy all this? Then leave it lying about for a couple of years after it's been used? Why would anyone else need to buy them from the council when they have deals going with the manufacturers direct to resupply when their equipment becomes obsolete?

And you're not just talking about 50 - 60 workers, you're talking hundreds, machine operators, drivers, layers, diggers etc. Then the people to oversee them. Apprentices maybe, but they'll need experienced people to check the work, and obviously have to have the training on the equipment they are using...

oh.. an hammers don't cost £25 each.. im glad you don't work for the council.

that's precisely the problem with the council.

most of the decision makers are of a particular education that does not give them the ability to look past their noses.

It was YOU that stated £25 for a hammer, so why pick somebosy else up on it when they are stating your own comment? You said this at
9:06pm on Monday 4th February 2013.

Would you like to confirm or deny this?

jayman wrote:

Noteworthy wrote:
Just a basic bit of digging (pardon the pun) on the internet and I found a company that hires the big diggers (not the little one with narrow buckets) for £300 a day. that's probably still not what you need for a big project but I'll roll with it...

Say you need 10 of them, and for an 18 month project, you need them for a year. That's £1,095,000 of your budget. Then, you'll need people to drive them. Pay them say, £250 a week, that's £130,000... so the total is £1,225,000 on diggers and drivers.

Still got the rest of the equipment, fuel and materials to buy in. Plus disposal of the old materials.

10 diggers for an 18 month project..

what are they clearing? mount snowdon.

two diggers for three months, If the project is managed correctly and not prolonged to maximise profit..

Here you go again do you have any experience in large scale civil engineering projects such as the Better Southend scheme?

To state all the work carried out on the entire Better Southend scheme could have been completed with two diggers in three months shows a distinct lack of understanding relating to how things are run on such schemes and the methods needed to under take large scale ground works.

jayman wrote:

Joe Wildman-Clark wrote:

abd123 wrote:
The size of the Council projects meant they must have gone through the European procurement system. Why did no one bid lower? Huge numbers of civil building contractors would have looked at. Did these highly specialised experts know something?

True that the project would have had to go out to tender, sadly some people will still find fault with how the system works as they are ignorant of the facts, and fail to even carry out the most basic of research to find the information for themselves expecting others to explain it to them, yet then it is they still fail to accept that the facts are the facts and dispute the fact of the facts.

To claim ignorance is arrogance.

Its Southend councils job to keep us informed, so we can then make an informed decision on who runs the council.

why sir, you display the same arrogant and complacent attitude that the common lesser spotted Tory councillor displays.

You do not know how I vote so please stop making unfounded assumptions on a persons voting.

Would you care to tell us all how you vote?

Would you agree that if somebody fails to vote they loos ethe right to moan about the council?

Joe Wildman-Clark wrote:

jayman wrote:

Joe Wildman-Clark wrote:

abd123 wrote:
The size of the Council projects meant they must have gone through the European procurement system. Why did no one bid lower? Huge numbers of civil building contractors would have looked at. Did these highly specialised experts know something?

True that the project would have had to go out to tender, sadly some people will still find fault with how the system works as they are ignorant of the facts, and fail to even carry out the most basic of research to find the information for themselves expecting others to explain it to them, yet then it is they still fail to accept that the facts are the facts and dispute the fact of the facts.

To claim ignorance is arrogance.

Its Southend councils job to keep us informed, so we can then make an informed decision on who runs the council.

why sir, you display the same arrogant and complacent attitude that the common lesser spotted Tory councillor displays.

You do not know how I vote so please stop making unfounded assumptions on a persons voting.

Would you care to tell us all how you vote?

Would you agree that if somebody fails to vote they loos ethe right to moan about the council?

your clearly a Tory activist of some description.
you seem to be at the defence of a Tory council that lacks any altruistic or pragmatic qualities whatsoever.

since we are being honest. I voted independent in the last local election and labour in the general election. I'm not sure who I will will vote for in the next local or general election but I know who I wont be voting for, the self serving Tories.

The only group of individuals to inflict such pain and poverty on vast swathes of our communities whilst retaining the ability to sleep well at night and keep their eyes so perfectly dry.

FOR GOODNESS SAKE!!!!!! The bridge (a) Was old, (b) Was beyond its useful life and (c) Had to be replaced. This was done (with minimal disruption to the public and to rail passengers). This is called progress. Without it we will stagnate. I may be the only one to say this - and probably put myself up for much abuse - but WELL DONE TO ALL INVOLVED!

I find the amateur quantity surveyors on this site amusing, but hey I'll go with the flow.
.
£57 biilion to decommision a nuclear reactor - nah, a man with a van and a couple of rolls of bin liners should do it.
.
£516k per mile to mainatin a motorway - nah, the boys from dale farm canl whack down a good 1/4 inch of the ol' tar for a few grand cash.
.
The armchair socialists who squeal about tory spending should remember it was Tony & Gordon who wasted this countries wealth on PFI projects which have been a millstone round the neck of hospitals and schools ever since. They are the last people to witter on about Value for Money projects.

jayman wrote:

Joe Wildman-Clark wrote:

jayman wrote:

Joe Wildman-Clark wrote:

abd123 wrote:
The size of the Council projects meant they must have gone through the European procurement system. Why did no one bid lower? Huge numbers of civil building contractors would have looked at. Did these highly specialised experts know something?

True that the project would have had to go out to tender, sadly some people will still find fault with how the system works as they are ignorant of the facts, and fail to even carry out the most basic of research to find the information for themselves expecting others to explain it to them, yet then it is they still fail to accept that the facts are the facts and dispute the fact of the facts.

To claim ignorance is arrogance.

Its Southend councils job to keep us informed, so we can then make an informed decision on who runs the council.

why sir, you display the same arrogant and complacent attitude that the common lesser spotted Tory councillor displays.

You do not know how I vote so please stop making unfounded assumptions on a persons voting.

Would you care to tell us all how you vote?

Would you agree that if somebody fails to vote they loos ethe right to moan about the council?

your clearly a Tory activist of some description.
you seem to be at the defence of a Tory council that lacks any altruistic or pragmatic qualities whatsoever.

since we are being honest. I voted independent in the last local election and labour in the general election. I'm not sure who I will will vote for in the next local or general election but I know who I wont be voting for, the self serving Tories.

The only group of individuals to inflict such pain and poverty on vast swathes of our communities whilst retaining the ability to sleep well at night and keep their eyes so perfectly dry.

You clearly have issues with people who correct you over facts that you eithetr get deliberately wrong or are not able to discover the facts for yourself, your only recourse for being pick up on this is too make assumptions on people's political stance.

I have not voted conservative, but I do not see why I need to tell you how I vote.

jayman wrote:

Noteworthy wrote:

jayman wrote:

j-w wrote: Nothing alike, no matter how you dress it up, a pre fabricated bridge replacement on a closed railway line is considerably easier than redesigning and implementing major road junction reconstruction whilst keeping the roads open and usable.

I suppose in a sense you are right. one is a efficient precision engineering job that will last generations. the other is a careless, overpriced waste of public money that will last a couple of years.

Jayman - would you mind responding to my point raised earlier? Do you have the total figure for the work undertaken including the £2 million cost of the bridge itself prior to any work?

since network rail have surveyors and engineers in their talent pool all the prep work would have incurred little or no extra cost.

as for any exact extra costs, ask network rail.

southends talent pool consists of a handful of councillors who are happy to sign for any scheme regardless of cost. A handful of classically educated departmental heads who don't know the price of a hammer or a ton of concrete and some works and parks employees who do know the price of such things and who are not listened to!

thats the state of play at Southend council..

Where do you buy a ton of concrete? The rest of the world measures it in cubic metres.... jayman, you really are a loser!

2shedsjackson wrote:
I find the amateur quantity surveyors on this site amusing, but hey I'll go with the flow. . £57 biilion to decommision a nuclear reactor - nah, a man with a van and a couple of rolls of bin liners should do it. . £516k per mile to mainatin a motorway - nah, the boys from dale farm canl whack down a good 1/4 inch of the ol' tar for a few grand cash. . The armchair socialists who squeal about tory spending should remember it was Tony & Gordon who wasted this countries wealth on PFI projects which have been a millstone round the neck of hospitals and schools ever since. They are the last people to witter on about Value for Money projects.

2shedsjackson wrote:
".... . The armchair socialists who squeal about tory spending should remember it was Tony & Gordon who wasted this countries wealth on PFI projects which have been a millstone round the neck of hospitals and schools ever since. They are the last people to witter on about Value for Money projects............
."

Spot on. And those projects were probably sanctioned by the last shower anyway.

It really is ironic to see Lefties claiming money being wasted.

Bitter, chippy, spiteful envious, nasty people.

Thekingofsouthend wrote:

jayman wrote:

Noteworthy wrote:

jayman wrote:

j-w wrote: Nothing alike, no matter how you dress it up, a pre fabricated bridge replacement on a closed railway line is considerably easier than redesigning and implementing major road junction reconstruction whilst keeping the roads open and usable.

I suppose in a sense you are right. one is a efficient precision engineering job that will last generations. the other is a careless, overpriced waste of public money that will last a couple of years.

Jayman - would you mind responding to my point raised earlier? Do you have the total figure for the work undertaken including the £2 million cost of the bridge itself prior to any work?

since network rail have surveyors and engineers in their talent pool all the prep work would have incurred little or no extra cost.

as for any exact extra costs, ask network rail.

southends talent pool consists of a handful of councillors who are happy to sign for any scheme regardless of cost. A handful of classically educated departmental heads who don't know the price of a hammer or a ton of concrete and some works and parks employees who do know the price of such things and who are not listened to!

thats the state of play at Southend council..

Where do you buy a ton of concrete? The rest of the world measures it in cubic metres.... jayman, you really are a loser!

such a non-response to my comment.

well done.... you have failed, take a hammer to whatever device you use to access the internet and go to bed..