Grammar school's modernisation plan blocked (From Echo)

When I visited the 6th form on an open day, I found it to be filthy. There was thick dust everywhere.

Mind you this was also true of parts of the main building.

Clearly they have no interest in keeping it clean.

Of course I was told that the headmaster has no issues, as he has a shower / en-suite in his office!!

Grammar schools are what comprehensive school 'class grades' are for..

cancel the extension, turn all the grammar schools into a comps and tell the 70% of 'out of borough' children to attend schools in their own towns/boroughs/distr
icts. close one or more of the former grammar schools and sell the land, use the money generated from the land sale to pay private tutors to teach every deprived pupil in Southend.. social equality.....done!

GentleGiant wrote:
When I visited the 6th form on an open day, I found it to be filthy. There was thick dust everywhere.

Mind you this was also true of parts of the main building.

Clearly they have no interest in keeping it clean.

Of course I was told that the headmaster has no issues, as he has a shower / en-suite in his office!!

I'm pleased the headmaster has his own toilet. This at least takes any element of doubt out when considering which to target with the cling-film.

jayman wrote:
Grammar schools are what comprehensive school 'class grades' are for..

cancel the extension, turn all the grammar schools into a comps and tell the 70% of 'out of borough' children to attend schools in their own towns/boroughs/distr

icts. close one or more of the former grammar schools and sell the land, use the money generated from the land sale to pay private tutors to teach every deprived pupil in Southend.. social equality.....done!

Build loads more classrooms on the sports field of Westcliff, so as the intake can be doubled.
Close down and bulldoze one of the local comprehensives, and use it as the playing field for Westcliff.

Nebs wrote:

jayman wrote:
Grammar schools are what comprehensive school 'class grades' are for..

cancel the extension, turn all the grammar schools into a comps and tell the 70% of 'out of borough' children to attend schools in their own towns/boroughs/distr


icts. close one or more of the former grammar schools and sell the land, use the money generated from the land sale to pay private tutors to teach every deprived pupil in Southend.. social equality.....done!

Build loads more classrooms on the sports field of Westcliff, so as the intake can be doubled.
Close down and bulldoze one of the local comprehensives, and use it as the playing field for Westcliff.

LOL. very provocative nebs. this town would tear itself apart with social unrest.

grammar schools are like the nations dirty secret. The civic centre would not be ablaze if they where closed. intact the civic centre would be a more harmonious place..

jayman wrote:

Nebs wrote:

jayman wrote:
Grammar schools are what comprehensive school 'class grades' are for..

cancel the extension, turn all the grammar schools into a comps and tell the 70% of 'out of borough' children to attend schools in their own towns/boroughs/distr



icts. close one or more of the former grammar schools and sell the land, use the money generated from the land sale to pay private tutors to teach every deprived pupil in Southend.. social equality.....done!

Build loads more classrooms on the sports field of Westcliff, so as the intake can be doubled.
Close down and bulldoze one of the local comprehensives, and use it as the playing field for Westcliff.

LOL. very provocative nebs. this town would tear itself apart with social unrest.

grammar schools are like the nations dirty secret. The civic centre would not be ablaze if they where closed. intact the civic centre would be a more harmonious place..

sorry 'intact' should have been 'in fact' though this is a typo that actually works both ways.. :)

: “Whilst a modern extension is not objected to in principle, it should still have a positive relationship and references to the existing building and this is not evident in the design.

You just can't help laughing at these pompous idiots living in their ivory towers - how about applying that criteria to those monstrosities in Southend Vic Circus - the coloured building block carp.

Blimey, what's all the fuss about? The school needs the space and the artist's impression looks fine. Does the council really want our kids receiving a 21st century education in a 19th century block? How daft is that? It'd be different if was a plan for shared space, museum, library or a dozen other white elephant lead member ego boosting carbuncles. There's nothing wrong with the design, it's much needed and the objections are purely aesthetic - which of course is all a matter of personnel perspective. I'd vote for it with both arms.

offer to sell off a bit of the playing field (if there's any left) for housing and see if that helps get the extension plans passed

whateverhappened wrote:
jayman says...

any evidence whatsoever to indicate that areas without grammar schools are suffering from educational decline? .
.
.
. BASILDON

nope... you have simply typed the place name 'Basildon'.

is there an overall decline due to not having a grammar school, or is this an example of another Tory administration and its total inability to provide a universally excellent educational system.

Cosmo Spring wrote:
offer to sell off a bit of the playing field (if there's any left) for housing and see if that helps get the extension plans passed

Westcliff Girls did that and Labour encouraged it when they were in government.

Strange that an article about a planning application should generate such a heated debate about education, grammar schools etc. etc.!
As for the plannin gapplication, the new building looks fine to me...Westcliff High School for Girls already has a splendid new block, why refuse permission for another modern building? Crazy.

Anyone smelling a whiff of jealously with certain people waiting to get rid of grammar schools and highly tax private schools, prehaps if these people had used these schools they would think differently, I went to a state comp, not done me any wrong, a school is a school be thankful of the fact we have a free education program in the most part, if somebody wants to send their kids to a fee paying school.so be it, its their money.

jayman wrote:

whateverhappened wrote: jayman says... any evidence whatsoever to indicate that areas without grammar schools are suffering from educational decline? . . . . BASILDON

nope... you have simply typed the place name 'Basildon'. is there an overall decline due to not having a grammar school, or is this an example of another Tory administration and its total inability to provide a universally excellent educational system.

The left-wing educational establishment, with enthusiastic support from Labour (whose MPs and ministers make sure that wherever possible their kids have nothing to do with comprehensives) and the tacit support from Tory wets, have ensured that education standards nationally have plummeted over the last 50 years.
Hundreds of great schools were closed, and replaced with...existing or new secondary moderns.
Nothing was done either to accommodate the needs of the brighter children, or to help those at the bottom of the education pile.
The result is that other than in grammar school areas, the brighter children do not receive the challenging education they need, to their cost, and ours, and the others are forgotten, just as they have always been.
It cannot be right that in non-grammar school areas, only the wealthy can give their children a good education.
All this because of the greed and envy of Marxist "intellectuals" of 50 years ago.

eurodoomed wrote:

jayman wrote:

whateverhappened wrote: jayman says... any evidence whatsoever to indicate that areas without grammar schools are suffering from educational decline? . . . . BASILDON

nope... you have simply typed the place name 'Basildon'. is there an overall decline due to not having a grammar school, or is this an example of another Tory administration and its total inability to provide a universally excellent educational system.

The left-wing educational establishment, with enthusiastic support from Labour (whose MPs and ministers make sure that wherever possible their kids have nothing to do with comprehensives) and the tacit support from Tory wets, have ensured that education standards nationally have plummeted over the last 50 years.
Hundreds of great schools were closed, and replaced with...existing or new secondary moderns.
Nothing was done either to accommodate the needs of the brighter children, or to help those at the bottom of the education pile.
The result is that other than in grammar school areas, the brighter children do not receive the challenging education they need, to their cost, and ours, and the others are forgotten, just as they have always been.
It cannot be right that in non-grammar school areas, only the wealthy can give their children a good education.
All this because of the greed and envy of Marxist "intellectuals" of 50 years ago.

well done. in one comment you have highlighted the Tory view point.

Dichotomies and elite institutions.

I love it when a Tory uses 'in house' Tory language, 'wets' is a term applied to a Tory who discovers morality.

this is a simple concept, so beyond your ability to display any for of pragmatism but,

-it dose not matter which institution is charged with the education of children as long as it is of a universally high standard-

what matters is 'chance' and 'perception'

Are you telling me that if the whole of westcliff grammar schools changed name to westcliff high (state school) that the bright pupils would somehow turn into knuckle dragging Neanderthals.....No.

If they can teach children in Africa to a high standard in a tin hut I'm sure bright pupils from grammar schools can be educated in a comprehensive school.

This example also serves to highlight the fact that children from poor backgrounds are 'parked' in state schools while they are educated in a lacklustre fashion from a politically driven and ideologically corrupt curriculum.

children at a young age become acutely aware of the dichotomy that exists within our educational system..

jayman wrote:

eurodoomed wrote:

jayman wrote:

whateverhappened wrote: jayman says... any evidence whatsoever to indicate that areas without grammar schools are suffering from educational decline? . . . . BASILDON

nope... you have simply typed the place name 'Basildon'. is there an overall decline due to not having a grammar school, or is this an example of another Tory administration and its total inability to provide a universally excellent educational system.

The left-wing educational establishment, with enthusiastic support from Labour (whose MPs and ministers make sure that wherever possible their kids have nothing to do with comprehensives) and the tacit support from Tory wets, have ensured that education standards nationally have plummeted over the last 50 years. Hundreds of great schools were closed, and replaced with...existing or new secondary moderns. Nothing was done either to accommodate the needs of the brighter children, or to help those at the bottom of the education pile. The result is that other than in grammar school areas, the brighter children do not receive the challenging education they need, to their cost, and ours, and the others are forgotten, just as they have always been. It cannot be right that in non-grammar school areas, only the wealthy can give their children a good education. All this because of the greed and envy of Marxist "intellectuals" of 50 years ago.

well done. in one comment you have highlighted the Tory view point. Dichotomies and elite institutions. I love it when a Tory uses 'in house' Tory language, 'wets' is a term applied to a Tory who discovers morality. this is a simple concept, so beyond your ability to display any for of pragmatism but, -it dose not matter which institution is charged with the education of children as long as it is of a universally high standard- what matters is 'chance' and 'perception' Are you telling me that if the whole of westcliff grammar schools changed name to westcliff high (state school) that the bright pupils would somehow turn into knuckle dragging Neanderthals.....No. If they can teach children in Africa to a high standard in a tin hut I'm sure bright pupils from grammar schools can be educated in a comprehensive school. This example also serves to highlight the fact that children from poor backgrounds are 'parked' in state schools while they are educated in a lacklustre fashion from a politically driven and ideologically corrupt curriculum. children at a young age become acutely aware of the dichotomy that exists within our educational system..

Sadly, I am not espousing Tory policy- at least not Tory Government policy. They, including Cameron, continue to fight shy of tackling this issue. Sooner or later, grammar schools, or a similar concept if the phrase cannot be used, will be reintroduced. There is absolutely no doubt about that.

What needs to happen is a fundamental change in the education system, including actually getting primary schools to teach something.
The whole point about the grammar school system as it should be is that it offers opportunity to bright children from poorer backgrounds solely on merit. All they need is to be given the opportunity to develop the right skills at primary school. I did, and had absolutely no extra tuition, as my parents could not have afforded it.
Grammar schools are a socialist principle - merit not money is what counts.
Unfortunately, sheer greed and envy has dictated that if some children cannot have grammar school education, no one should, and to hell with the consequences, even if it means that educational standards crash, as they have done over the past 50 years.
Labour in particular seems to think that "education, education, education" means putting in double glazing! What about trying to raise standards?
My school, Southend High School for Boys had prefab huts for 30-40 years, most of which had poor or no heating, and had a hole in the ceiling of one of the chemistry labs when I joined, which was still there 7 years later, as there was no money to repair it.
Did all that matter-no, of course it didn't. It offered a brilliant education, which is even better now.
We cannot let our brighter children down for fear of upsetting some who cannot reach grammar school. I agree that we need to drive up standards in comprehensives, but unfortunately, politicians have always forgotten about that. They have destroyed grammar schools, but done nothing about raising standards in comps/secondary moderns.
Southend narrowly avoided losing its grammar schools in the 1960s, thanks to the likes of my late, great Headmaster, who delayed his retirement to fight for his school. It would be mad to let a few socialist loonies destroy them now.

eurodoomed wrote:

jayman wrote:

eurodoomed wrote:

jayman wrote:

whateverhappened wrote: jayman says... any evidence whatsoever to indicate that areas without grammar schools are suffering from educational decline? . . . . BASILDON

nope... you have simply typed the place name 'Basildon'. is there an overall decline due to not having a grammar school, or is this an example of another Tory administration and its total inability to provide a universally excellent educational system.

The left-wing educational establishment, with enthusiastic support from Labour (whose MPs and ministers make sure that wherever possible their kids have nothing to do with comprehensives) and the tacit support from Tory wets, have ensured that education standards nationally have plummeted over the last 50 years. Hundreds of great schools were closed, and replaced with...existing or new secondary moderns. Nothing was done either to accommodate the needs of the brighter children, or to help those at the bottom of the education pile. The result is that other than in grammar school areas, the brighter children do not receive the challenging education they need, to their cost, and ours, and the others are forgotten, just as they have always been. It cannot be right that in non-grammar school areas, only the wealthy can give their children a good education. All this because of the greed and envy of Marxist "intellectuals" of 50 years ago.

well done. in one comment you have highlighted the Tory view point. Dichotomies and elite institutions. I love it when a Tory uses 'in house' Tory language, 'wets' is a term applied to a Tory who discovers morality. this is a simple concept, so beyond your ability to display any for of pragmatism but, -it dose not matter which institution is charged with the education of children as long as it is of a universally high standard- what matters is 'chance' and 'perception' Are you telling me that if the whole of westcliff grammar schools changed name to westcliff high (state school) that the bright pupils would somehow turn into knuckle dragging Neanderthals.....No. If they can teach children in Africa to a high standard in a tin hut I'm sure bright pupils from grammar schools can be educated in a comprehensive school. This example also serves to highlight the fact that children from poor backgrounds are 'parked' in state schools while they are educated in a lacklustre fashion from a politically driven and ideologically corrupt curriculum. children at a young age become acutely aware of the dichotomy that exists within our educational system..

Sadly, I am not espousing Tory policy- at least not Tory Government policy. They, including Cameron, continue to fight shy of tackling this issue. Sooner or later, grammar schools, or a similar concept if the phrase cannot be used, will be reintroduced. There is absolutely no doubt about that.

What needs to happen is a fundamental change in the education system, including actually getting primary schools to teach something.
The whole point about the grammar school system as it should be is that it offers opportunity to bright children from poorer backgrounds solely on merit. All they need is to be given the opportunity to develop the right skills at primary school. I did, and had absolutely no extra tuition, as my parents could not have afforded it.
Grammar schools are a socialist principle - merit not money is what counts.
Unfortunately, sheer greed and envy has dictated that if some children cannot have grammar school education, no one should, and to hell with the consequences, even if it means that educational standards crash, as they have done over the past 50 years.
Labour in particular seems to think that "education, education, education" means putting in double glazing! What about trying to raise standards?
My school, Southend High School for Boys had prefab huts for 30-40 years, most of which had poor or no heating, and had a hole in the ceiling of one of the chemistry labs when I joined, which was still there 7 years later, as there was no money to repair it.
Did all that matter-no, of course it didn't. It offered a brilliant education, which is even better now.
We cannot let our brighter children down for fear of upsetting some who cannot reach grammar school. I agree that we need to drive up standards in comprehensives, but unfortunately, politicians have always forgotten about that. They have destroyed grammar schools, but done nothing about raising standards in comps/secondary moderns.
Southend narrowly avoided losing its grammar schools in the 1960s, thanks to the likes of my late, great Headmaster, who delayed his retirement to fight for his school. It would be mad to let a few socialist loonies destroy them now.

very off topic but.

we have a labour party that no longer represent the hard working classes.
we have a Tory party that only represent the worst form of aspirational middle class.

when voting on the basis of education for my children I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place..

Aspirations to achieve a goal you have set yourself what is wrong with that, better that than those that expect everything to be given and everything to be done for them.

Joe Wildman-Clark wrote:
Aspirations to achieve a goal you have set yourself what is wrong with that, better that than those that expect everything to be given and everything to be done for them.

the worst type of aspirational middle class is characterised by a person who climbs a ladder and kicks the rungs out underneath them as they climb..

I entirely agree. Unfortunately, that is exactly what the vile Crosland, Williams and their Labour successors have done, and their successors would do given the chance.. Get a good education for themselves and their children, then destroy that opportunity for others.

I didn't go to a grammar school, but I have no problem with them.
They serve a purpose.

This extension will no doubt eventually be built.

jayman wrote:

Joe Wildman-Clark wrote:
Aspirations to achieve a goal you have set yourself what is wrong with that, better that than those that expect everything to be given and everything to be done for them.

the worst type of aspirational middle class is characterised by a person who climbs a ladder and kicks the rungs out underneath them as they climb..

Yes they are called union leaders.