Campaigners question key plank of £5m Cuckoo Corner scheme (From Echo)

Perhaps they could carry out a survey of how many cars turn left at Sutton Road or Priory crescent that would use Cuckoo Corner but don't due to avoiding the tailbacks?
They keep going on about Cuckoo Corner not changing anything but i bet those that live south of Priory Park will notice a difference once this scheme goes ahead.
Of course that is if you believe anything these people say in the first place.
They have had years to get properly elected to the council to stop these schemes, why haven't they?

also even though i am for this scheme if Anna Waite really said this

“If we don’t spend the funding for this project by March 2011 then they just take it back, so the town loses a £5million investment for infrastructure because a group of treehuggers seem to think it knows better than all of the experts on these types of junctions. Businesses are not going to come to Southend unless they know they can get through the junctions.”

then she should be ashamed, those in official positions should not be using derogatory terms and leave them for the rest of us.

Is a local firm getting the £5 million contract?

Regardless of whether I am for or against this scheme (firmly against actually) I find Anna Waite's comments ludicrous. At a time of recession and a huge shortage of government funds we have to proceed with this scheme or 'they' will take the £5 million back.
Maybe if councils all around the country grasped the idea that government money is finite, we as a country might have a considerable amount more in our coffers.
Southend councillors like Anna Waite shows few signs of democracy and run this town like a dictatorship.

Whatever Anna Waite says will be jumped on and twisted by the treehuggers as she so rightly discribes them,there are many other names of course.She does not decide to remove trees on a whim,its decided and approved by the council.But some people dont want a democracy when it dosent go their way.

"because a group of treehuggers seem to think it knows better than all of the experts"

Why am I not surprised to see Chainsaw Waite insulting the electorate like a common yob?

Actually, for once the tree-huggers may have it right. Almost nobody with local knowledge and a reasonable amount of common-sense would want to turn left here.

Most of the tree huggers are duvet divers sleeping in thier dug outs and trying to work out what one plus one is. Get a life-get a job!

Just because money is available for a waste of time 'queue moving scheme' doesn't make it a good idea!

Why don't the council get some money for something useful. Upgrade a swimming pool or something. Fix that millenium clock?

andyh,the cuckoos, treehuggers or whatever you want to call them are not in the least interested in traffic flow,all they are interested in is protesting,about what dosent matter.

Get Anna Waite off this council! all she does is waste money! okay so the local government grants us a budget but that doesnt mean it should all be wasted! i am getting sick of sitting in so called traffic improvements that often end up making the traffic worse - they are not improvements they are just a waste of money creating more problems!!! this left hand lane is completely pointless! it wont attract business! - businesses need a decent route out of southend - not a decent route into southend on their way out of southend! pointless improvement -as is the traffic lights near the kursal / thorpe hall junction at the seafront / the list is endless! how about fixing some potholes instead?? lets vote her off come may please!!!

Everyone is getting too hung up about the left hand lane, any traffic turning left or right or going straight on will no longer be held up by a silly queue of one lane traffic that just about turns into two lanes before the roundabout.
Potentially 3 cars can now exit Priory Crescent at the same time instead of just one or maybe two. Queues gone, traffic flows freely, less fumes for the residents and park users plus less traffic avoiding Cuckoo Corner by diverting south of Priory Park. This is about much more than just Cuckoo Corner.

j-w wrote:
Everyone is getting too hung up about the left hand lane, any traffic turning left or right or going straight on will no longer be held up by a silly queue of one lane traffic that just about turns into two lanes before the roundabout. Potentially 3 cars can now exit Priory Crescent at the same time instead of just one or maybe two. Queues gone, traffic flows freely, less fumes for the residents and park users plus less traffic avoiding Cuckoo Corner by diverting south of Priory Park. This is about much more than just Cuckoo Corner.

Wow very observant JW but then you have 3lanes going into 2 towards the bell and how do they get through there quicker.

southendreb wrote:

j-w wrote:
Everyone is getting too hung up about the left hand lane, any traffic turning left or right or going straight on will no longer be held up by a silly queue of one lane traffic that just about turns into two lanes before the roundabout. Potentially 3 cars can now exit Priory Crescent at the same time instead of just one or maybe two. Queues gone, traffic flows freely, less fumes for the residents and park users plus less traffic avoiding Cuckoo Corner by diverting south of Priory Park. This is about much more than just Cuckoo Corner.

Wow very observant JW but then you have 3lanes going into 2 towards the bell and how do they get through there quicker.

Actually then you have three lanes going into ONE lane towards The Bell, because of the priority left turn lane from Victoria Avenue into Prince Avenue.
The hold up is not, and never has been, caused by traffic turning left into Vic Ave from Priory Crescent.
The hold ups are caused because of the right-turn only lane at the roundabout, forcing ALL traffic for Prince Avenue into the left lane.

Get rid of the priority lane from Vic Ave into Prince Ave, and you get rid of the hold-ups in Priory Crescent, with zero need for an extra lane or any destruction of park or trees.

I will be keeping a close eye on which construction companies, and who is on their boars of directors, get this contract, IF it comes to pass.

It would be a lot cheaper to simply erect a "No Left Turn" sign. The odd car that wants to turn left will have to find an alternative route.

how comes southend united supporters managed 175 people to protest about ron martins running of the club but SKIPP cant manage more than 50!! to complain about the running of the whole town. Maybe most people are happy with the running of the town

I drove through this roudabout today, in the evening rush hour, only to be met by a long tail back from Hobleythick Lane traffic lights. I had no problems negotiating Cuckoo Corner, but had to turn right to avoid the traffic jam ahead past this roundabout. So, if these road improvements do go ahead, the traffic will definately back up past here as in theory (so SBC would have you believe) there would not be a roundabout here to slow the London bound carriageway traffic down. Bet Anna and her cronies have not thought about this one!
Another thought, remember that snow last winter, how many remember that then, the motorists using this road were able to go three cars abreast across this road with no accidents, so why does so much land and trees etc have to be destroyed to improve this area in the first place?
I personally can not see that these so called improvements are going to make any difference to the traffic at all.

I can see the pros and cons of the scheme, however for someone in public office to make derogatory comments about people simply carrying out their democratic right to protest is disgraceful.
I hope she admits using this comment was wrong and apologises to the people. I doubt if she will though.

woodsman wrote:
I can see the pros and cons of the scheme, however for someone in public office to make derogatory comments about people simply carrying out their democratic right to protest is disgraceful.
I hope she admits using this comment was wrong and apologises to the people. I doubt if she will though.

I personally am astonished that someone can hold high position on the ruling body of a unitary authority, and yet hold the local electorate in such open contempt.

At the very least Anna Waite should offer her resignation.

I shall write to conservative head office asking them if this is the opinion of all conservatives towards those of the electorate who disagree with their policies and decisions.

I will also ask whether they think it acceptable for conservative councillors at local level to openly insult and attack those exercising their legitimate and democratic right to protest.

Wow very observant JW but then you have 3lanes going into 2 towards the bell and how do they get through there quicker.

der, wow not very observant, why do you have 3 lanes going to the bell? one lane has turned left, one lane has turned right and one lane has gone straight over, so no difference to Prince Avenue, two lanes as now.

V, how can illegal land occupation be classed as legitimate protest? These groups lose support when they take over land and set up camps. They have made an error this time with public support, it will not be as forthcoming as with camp bling because people get annoyed when unelected groups start holding everyone else to ransom.

The Left turn issue must be a silly excuse as the vast majority of traffic wants to go straight on with a few (me) to go right, they need 3 lanes at the start of prince avenue, but then the bell lights become the bottle neck, so whatever you do will end up as a jam as there are too many cars for the road infrastructure

firedog wrote:
Whatever Anna Waite says will be jumped on and twisted by the treehuggers as she so rightly discribes them,there are many other names of course.She does not decide to remove trees on a whim,its decided and approved by the council.But some people dont want a democracy when it dosent go their way.

^ Is that you Evilc? ^

I for one would rather Southend council spent their budget on repairing existing roads, There is more potholes in the roads than on a teenagers face, The Cuckoo corner 'improvement' is a waste of money, Get existing roads up to scratch first.

Once this work on getting the left turn lane complete I hope that they add a set of traffic lights 20 yards apart,a couple of speed humps,a speed camera and possibly a chicane just to blend in with the rest of the road structure in Southend.

southendmechanic wrote:
how comes southend united supporters managed 175 people to protest about ron martins running of the club but SKIPP cant manage more than 50!! to complain about the running of the whole town. Maybe most people are happy with the running of the town

Whatever your smoking i want any
prhaps yopu should talk to people that live in southend
because thats the silliest state thats been made for ages.

southendmechanic wrote:
how comes southend united supporters managed 175 people to protest about ron martins running of the club but SKIPP cant manage more than 50!! to complain about the running of the whole town. Maybe most people are happy with the running of the town

Whatever your smoking i want any
prhaps yopu should talk to people that live in southend
because thats the silliest state thats been made for ages.

I just want the Council to get on with the work asap. If the TREEHUGGERS want to stay in situe then just concrete over them (no loss). My biggest problem with the protesters is that they are blaming the whole idea and problem on Anna Waite and have made this whole protest personal. Just leave it, get a life and go and protest about something useful. Lastly - I need the protesters to vacate Cuckoo corner as when I sit in traffic there each day my urge to drive into their ridiculous camp gets bigger and I might get in trouble if I do!

The extra lane is not just a slip road
but will carry most of the vtraffic straight on cant find the plans on council sites but check on ppps site
so 2 lanes from priory park and one from vic avenue make and dont forget there are traffic lights and now pedestrians crossings as well.
If priority is changed
at the bell lights increased waiting trafficin hobleythick lane and from the airport.

One more thing. I am concerned that the protesters have put some new woodchip paths around their site. Can I ask how many trees had to be felled to create this path and do they plan to re-plant more trees to offset their need for woodchip??

Luddites all of the huggers!!

What on earth do they suggest :

Do nothing and become a poverty struck area.

Concrete over all of the campaigners especially V for victory in fact V could become the model for a Luddite statue which could be erected in Priory park.

Rather like Basildon has done with Watt Tyler another failure of his time perhaps The Mayor of Southend would oblige us with his seaxe.

southendreb wrote:

southendmechanic wrote: how comes southend united supporters managed 175 people to protest about ron martins running of the club but SKIPP cant manage more than 50!! to complain about the running of the whole town. Maybe most people are happy with the running of the town

Whatever your smoking i want any prhaps yopu should talk to people that live in southend because thats the silliest state thats been made for ages.

in what way dont you understand what was said??
Southend United supporters on saturday met to show their upset at ron martins running of the towns football club in attendance was 175 fans.
SKIPP and PPPS have a protest into the road and manage 50 at the most.
so Thats southend united 125 people more (alas first time for a bit that southend united has beaten someone by miles)than skipp managed.
In the paper a week ago on friday it showed a picture of southend victoria circus full of people protesting about the possible closure of the towns cancer unit. possibly 300 people where in attendance and easily filled the area outside W H Smiths. So if the people in southend are really upset they know how to show it in numbers but SKIPP have never managed this and PPPS only ever had any real support when the park was believed threatened. (which it isnt) do you get the statement in the post now anything else on here you want help understanding??

evilc wrote:
Luddites all of the huggers!!

What on earth do they suggest :

Do nothing and become a poverty struck area.

Concrete over all of the campaigners especially V for victory in fact V could become the model for a Luddite statue which could be erected in Priory park.

Rather like Basildon has done with Watt Tyler another failure of his time perhaps The Mayor of Southend would oblige us with his seaxe.

I would be proud to be remembered like Wat Tyler. Wat Tyler had the backbone to stand up for what he believed in, in a country run by a brutal and cruel feudal system.
Even though he, and many of his compatriots died, they succeeded in getting the first Poll Tax abolished.

You will be buried and forgotten, because you have never had the guts to stand up for anything.

southendmechanic wrote:

southendreb wrote:

southendmechanic wrote: how comes southend united supporters managed 175 people to protest about ron martins running of the club but SKIPP cant manage more than 50!! to complain about the running of the whole town. Maybe most people are happy with the running of the town

Whatever your smoking i want any prhaps yopu should talk to people that live in southend because thats the silliest state thats been made for ages.

in what way dont you understand what was said??
Southend United supporters on saturday met to show their upset at ron martins running of the towns football club in attendance was 175 fans.
SKIPP and PPPS have a protest into the road and manage 50 at the most.
so Thats southend united 125 people more (alas first time for a bit that southend united has beaten someone by miles)than skipp managed.
In the paper a week ago on friday it showed a picture of southend victoria circus full of people protesting about the possible closure of the towns cancer unit. possibly 300 people where in attendance and easily filled the area outside W H Smiths. So if the people in southend are really upset they know how to show it in numbers but SKIPP have never managed this and PPPS only ever had any real support when the park was believed threatened. (which it isnt) do you get the statement in the post now anything else on here you want help understanding??

ALL of that is irrelevant. It is a straw man argument. I suggest you look up straw man argument.

It seems that what YOU fail to understand is that Priory Crescent could be made ten lanes wide, but while the roundabout EXIT to Prince Avenue is only one lane, while there are road-level pedestrian crossings, while there are traffic lights, the holdups will persist.

Almost NO-ONE turns left out of Priory Crescent into Vic Ave. I know I never have. Locals tend to use Sutton Rd, Woodgrange Dr, Southchurch Ave, or the seafront to get into central Southend.

'V' wrote:

evilc wrote:
Luddites all of the huggers!!

What on earth do they suggest :

Do nothing and become a poverty struck area.

Concrete over all of the campaigners especially V for victory in fact V could become the model for a Luddite statue which could be erected in Priory park.

Rather like Basildon has done with Watt Tyler another failure of his time perhaps The Mayor of Southend would oblige us with his seaxe.

I would be proud to be remembered like Wat Tyler. Wat Tyler had the backbone to stand up for what he believed in, in a country run by a brutal and cruel feudal system.
Even though he, and many of his compatriots died, they succeeded in getting the first Poll Tax abolished.

You will be buried and forgotten, because you have never had the guts to stand up for anything.

Fine perhaps the term:

VW will be a better name for you goes with the German thinking!!

Anorak!!!

evilc wrote:

'V' wrote:

evilc wrote:
Luddites all of the huggers!!

What on earth do they suggest :

Do nothing and become a poverty struck area.

Concrete over all of the campaigners especially V for victory in fact V could become the model for a Luddite statue which could be erected in Priory park.

Rather like Basildon has done with Watt Tyler another failure of his time perhaps The Mayor of Southend would oblige us with his seaxe.

I would be proud to be remembered like Wat Tyler. Wat Tyler had the backbone to stand up for what he believed in, in a country run by a brutal and cruel feudal system.
Even though he, and many of his compatriots died, they succeeded in getting the first Poll Tax abolished.

You will be buried and forgotten, because you have never had the guts to stand up for anything.

Fine perhaps the term:

VW will be a better name for you goes with the German thinking!!

Anorak!!!

I support legitimate protest in a democratic country. Protest is one of our rights as residents of a country which purports to be a free democracy which believes in free speech.
Unfortunately people like Anna Waite don't understand that EVERYONE in Britain has the freedom to disagree with elected representatives. We have the right to do that free from insult and attack from those elected representatives. We are all equal in Britain.
Anna Waite would prefer we all lived on Home Farm. Then, in between stuffing their faces with jam and wine, she and the rest of Southend's tories could write their rules on the walls of the Civic Centre, starting with:

"All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others."

If by 'German thinking' you mean Nazi thinking, then you really are showing your ignorance. You see, the Nazis crushed all dissent, protestors were sent to concentration camps and murdered.

YOU are the one who has called for the Priory Crescent protestors to be killed, to be buried in the road, to be driven over.

YOU are the Nazi here clivE, not me.

YOU are the one who is spitting on everything our forefathers fought, and died, to preserve. YOU are the one spitting on those brave men's graves. YOU are the disgrace to our country.

Mmmm...

When the argument is lost, resort to personal abuse.

APR wrote:
Mmmm...

When the argument is lost, resort to personal abuse.

Nice to see I am not the only one tired of clivE's endless far-right propaganda.

As for personal abuse, let's start with Cllr. Anna Waite's personal abuse of people carrying out a legitimate protest, or perhaps all the posters on this website accusing the protestors of being 'unwashed' or 'druggies' or 'treehuggers' and worse.

Yes the argument has been lost. But not by those opposed to SBC's wanton destruction of Southend's few remaining green spaces.

If you are referring to my post, is it wrong for me to respond to someone who trails me like a lovesick puppy, calling me 'Hitler' all over this forum?

If Anna Waite can insult people in public wihout a care, you can only imagine what they are referred to amongst her group of lackey councilors and fawning followers, it makes you wonder what choice names she has for patrons of her family’s restaurant when they dare to complain about the service or food,

'V' wrote:

APR wrote: Mmmm... When the argument is lost, resort to personal abuse.

Nice to see I am not the only one tired of clivE's endless far-right propaganda. As for personal abuse, let's start with Cllr. Anna Waite's personal abuse of people carrying out a legitimate protest, or perhaps all the posters on this website accusing the protestors of being 'unwashed' or 'druggies' or 'treehuggers' and worse. Yes the argument has been lost. But not by those opposed to SBC's wanton destruction of Southend's few remaining green spaces. If you are referring to my post, is it wrong for me to respond to someone who trails me like a lovesick puppy, calling me 'Hitler' all over this forum?

Read the article Anna Waite said
“If we don’t spend the funding for this project by March 2011 then they just take it back, so the town loses a £5million investment for infrastructure because a group of treehuggers seem to think it knows better than all of the experts on these types of junctions. Businesses are not going to come to Southend unless they know they can get through the junctions.”

I don't see any insult here she called them treehuggers, its what they are isn't it? She didn't use the other words - unwashed, druggies or worse you did so do you know something we don't? They are making it personal, she is only standing up for us that get stuck in traffic here, went to B&Q yesterday returned via Sutton Road as tail back was clear from there, often cut left and through the small roads to avoid Cuckoo Corner- its called rat running and plenty object to that.

soufend girl! wrote:

'V' wrote:

APR wrote: Mmmm... When the argument is lost, resort to personal abuse.

Nice to see I am not the only one tired of clivE's endless far-right propaganda. As for personal abuse, let's start with Cllr. Anna Waite's personal abuse of people carrying out a legitimate protest, or perhaps all the posters on this website accusing the protestors of being 'unwashed' or 'druggies' or 'treehuggers' and worse. Yes the argument has been lost. But not by those opposed to SBC's wanton destruction of Southend's few remaining green spaces. If you are referring to my post, is it wrong for me to respond to someone who trails me like a lovesick puppy, calling me 'Hitler' all over this forum?

Read the article Anna Waite said
“If we don’t spend the funding for this project by March 2011 then they just take it back, so the town loses a £5million investment for infrastructure because a group of treehuggers seem to think it knows better than all of the experts on these types of junctions. Businesses are not going to come to Southend unless they know they can get through the junctions.”

I don't see any insult here she called them treehuggers, its what they are isn't it? She didn't use the other words - unwashed, druggies or worse you did so do you know something we don't? They are making it personal, she is only standing up for us that get stuck in traffic here, went to B&Q yesterday returned via Sutton Road as tail back was clear from there, often cut left and through the small roads to avoid Cuckoo Corner- its called rat running and plenty object to that.

'Treehugger' is a derogatory term used to insult people who campaign against unnecessary destruction of the local enviroment.

For a local councillor to behave in such a manner is simply disgusting, and shows the utter contempt Anna Waite has for the people of Southend and our opinions on how our town should be.

She is behaving with the utmost arrogance towards the protestors, and using the language of a common yob.

I have to agree with 'Vanilla Ice's point: if this is how she behaves in public, what on Earth is she like behind closed doors?


She must resign.

V thank you for the acknowledgement.

It is nice to be recognised by a fellow student of crapology.

Anne (Waits) for no one good girl go for it.

V perhaps a Panzer attack on the right wing might help.

Does anyone know where these treehuggers usual live?. I feel like going round their homes and setting up a campsite in their front garden see how they like that.

'V' wrote:

southendmechanic wrote:

southendreb wrote:

southendmechanic wrote: how comes southend united supporters managed 175 people to protest about ron martins running of the club but SKIPP cant manage more than 50!! to complain about the running of the whole town. Maybe most people are happy with the running of the town

Whatever your smoking i want any prhaps yopu should talk to people that live in southend because thats the silliest state thats been made for ages.

in what way dont you understand what was said?? Southend United supporters on saturday met to show their upset at ron martins running of the towns football club in attendance was 175 fans. SKIPP and PPPS have a protest into the road and manage 50 at the most. so Thats southend united 125 people more (alas first time for a bit that southend united has beaten someone by miles)than skipp managed. In the paper a week ago on friday it showed a picture of southend victoria circus full of people protesting about the possible closure of the towns cancer unit. possibly 300 people where in attendance and easily filled the area outside W H Smiths. So if the people in southend are really upset they know how to show it in numbers but SKIPP have never managed this and PPPS only ever had any real support when the park was believed threatened. (which it isnt) do you get the statement in the post now anything else on here you want help understanding??

ALL of that is irrelevant. It is a straw man argument. I suggest you look up straw man argument. It seems that what YOU fail to understand is that Priory Crescent could be made ten lanes wide, but while the roundabout EXIT to Prince Avenue is only one lane, while there are road-level pedestrian crossings, while there are traffic lights, the holdups will persist. Almost NO-ONE turns left out of Priory Crescent into Vic Ave. I know I never have. Locals tend to use Sutton Rd, Woodgrange Dr, Southchurch Ave, or the seafront to get into central Southend.

how can you say that this irrelevant.
SKIPP say they are speaking for the poeple of southend but they arnt because if the people of southend really felt upset about it then they would all be out in protest as they do for other things.
BUT we have a small group who say they have numbers of 50 but as has been reported by the echo and longpier (who were invited to attend the protests on saturday nights) only ever appear to be 25 at most camped out on land stopping southend having much needed work doing to one of its major junctions and doing this in the name of the people of southend. The argument of the turning left is to free up the lane (currently on the left) to being straight ahead only and this fits well with traffic lights, which will allow people out of priory crescent without having to wait for traffic going from prince avenue to victoria avenue being stopped at the current pedestrian lights in prince avenue.
You have said in previous posts you avoid cuckoo corner and suggested others should also find alternative routes. I put it to you that you are selfish and are robbing others of the chance to have the changes done here and that you are removing the chances of these improvement being funded by central goverment therefore costing the local council tax and commercial rate payer money they need not spend for changes they want.

There are probably only 25 there at a time as they are taking turns to man the camp.
As I said previously, it doesn't matter how many lanes they add to Priory Crescent, they will all have to compress down to the single lane entering Prince Ave because of the priority lane given to traffic from Vic Ave into Prince Ave.

So the holdups will still exist.

This whole project is an exercise in wasting taxpayers money purely for the sake of wasting money. It would be better spent repairing the Cliffs or the pier.

Personally I don't see why you think commercial rate payers should be given any preference. We all pay our taxes and we are all entitled to a say. We are all entitled to object to our money being wasted.

'V' wrote:

evilc wrote:

'V' wrote:

evilc wrote: Luddites all of the huggers!! What on earth do they suggest : Do nothing and become a poverty struck area. Concrete over all of the campaigners especially V for victory in fact V could become the model for a Luddite statue which could be erected in Priory park. Rather like Basildon has done with Watt Tyler another failure of his time perhaps The Mayor of Southend would oblige us with his seaxe.

I would be proud to be remembered like Wat Tyler. Wat Tyler had the backbone to stand up for what he believed in, in a country run by a brutal and cruel feudal system. Even though he, and many of his compatriots died, they succeeded in getting the first Poll Tax abolished. You will be buried and forgotten, because you have never had the guts to stand up for anything.

Fine perhaps the term: VW will be a better name for you goes with the German thinking!! Anorak!!!

I support legitimate protest in a democratic country. Protest is one of our rights as residents of a country which purports to be a free democracy which believes in free speech. Unfortunately people like Anna Waite don't understand that EVERYONE in Britain has the freedom to disagree with elected representatives. We have the right to do that free from insult and attack from those elected representatives. We are all equal in Britain. Anna Waite would prefer we all lived on Home Farm. Then, in between stuffing their faces with jam and wine, she and the rest of Southend's tories could write their rules on the walls of the Civic Centre, starting with: "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others." If by 'German thinking' you mean Nazi thinking, then you really are showing your ignorance. You see, the Nazis crushed all dissent, protestors were sent to concentration camps and murdered. YOU are the one who has called for the Priory Crescent protestors to be killed, to be buried in the road, to be driven over. YOU are the Nazi here clivE, not me. YOU are the one who is spitting on everything our forefathers fought, and died, to preserve. YOU are the one spitting on those brave men's graves. YOU are the disgrace to our country.

I agree I support protest to.

So why not go stand on the steps of the Civic Centre instead of being in Camp Cuckoo.

Oh by the way according to accounts atthe time Wat Tyler, born in essex and lived in Kent was "the greatest thief and robber in all Kent".

incorrect sometimes there is only 1 person on the camp at peek times when SKIPP call for everyone to drop what they are doing and rush to the camp there is 25 people in the camp and on the trees.
If you really had that many people skipp would have posted group photos of the people but they only ever post pictures of the same handful of people.
i went past like others at 10pm on monday when they said they were about to be raided by riot police. Denis said "we have a few short of 50 people here now" but my wife and i only counted 20. this was backed up by longpier who had a reporter there as well who also only counted 20 at most. you also seem to keep going on about hitler V with another poster. I would like to point out to you that Hitler came to power only after being an anti establishment protester and his banning of demo's came about as it takes one to know one.

Mary Lou wrote:

'V' wrote:

evilc wrote:

'V' wrote:

evilc wrote: Luddites all of the huggers!! What on earth do they suggest : Do nothing and become a poverty struck area. Concrete over all of the campaigners especially V for victory in fact V could become the model for a Luddite statue which could be erected in Priory park. Rather like Basildon has done with Watt Tyler another failure of his time perhaps The Mayor of Southend would oblige us with his seaxe.

I would be proud to be remembered like Wat Tyler. Wat Tyler had the backbone to stand up for what he believed in, in a country run by a brutal and cruel feudal system. Even though he, and many of his compatriots died, they succeeded in getting the first Poll Tax abolished. You will be buried and forgotten, because you have never had the guts to stand up for anything.

Fine perhaps the term: VW will be a better name for you goes with the German thinking!! Anorak!!!

I support legitimate protest in a democratic country. Protest is one of our rights as residents of a country which purports to be a free democracy which believes in free speech. Unfortunately people like Anna Waite don't understand that EVERYONE in Britain has the freedom to disagree with elected representatives. We have the right to do that free from insult and attack from those elected representatives. We are all equal in Britain. Anna Waite would prefer we all lived on Home Farm. Then, in between stuffing their faces with jam and wine, she and the rest of Southend's tories could write their rules on the walls of the Civic Centre, starting with: "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others." If by 'German thinking' you mean Nazi thinking, then you really are showing your ignorance. You see, the Nazis crushed all dissent, protestors were sent to concentration camps and murdered. YOU are the one who has called for the Priory Crescent protestors to be killed, to be buried in the road, to be driven over. YOU are the Nazi here clivE, not me. YOU are the one who is spitting on everything our forefathers fought, and died, to preserve. YOU are the one spitting on those brave men's graves. YOU are the disgrace to our country.

I agree I support protest to.

So why not go stand on the steps of the Civic Centre instead of being in Camp Cuckoo.

Oh by the way according to accounts atthe time Wat Tyler, born in essex and lived in Kent was "the greatest thief and robber in all Kent".

You'll have to do better than that. That quote is credited to a valet in the King's retinue.

"At this time a certain valet from Kent, who was among the King's retinue, asked that the said Walter, the chief of the commons, might be pointed out to him. And when he saw him, he said aloud that he knew him for the greatest thief and robber in all Kent.... "

I suppose you take everything Paul Burrell says as gospel too.

These are the demands Wat Tyler made of the king:

"Thereupon the said Walter rehearsed the points which were to be demanded;

and he asked that there should be no law within the realm save the law of Winchester,

and that from henceforth there should be no outlawry in any process of law,

and that no lord should have lordship save civilly,

and that there should be equality among all people save only the King,

and that the goods of Holy Church should not remain in the hands of the religious, nor of parsons and vicars, and other churchmen; but that clergy already in possession should have a sufficient sustenance from the endowments, and the rest of the goods should be divided among the people of the parish.

And he demanded that there should be only one bishop in England and only one prelate, and all the lands and tenements now held by them should be confiscated, and divided among the commons, only reserving for them a reasonable sustenance.

And he demanded that there should be no more villeins in England, and no serfdom or villeinage, but that all men should be free and of one condition."


Those sound like fairly level-headed and reasonable demands to me.

'V' wrote:

Mary Lou wrote:

'V' wrote:

evilc wrote:

'V' wrote:

evilc wrote: Luddites all of the huggers!! What on earth do they suggest : Do nothing and become a poverty struck area. Concrete over all of the campaigners especially V for victory in fact V could become the model for a Luddite statue which could be erected in Priory park. Rather like Basildon has done with Watt Tyler another failure of his time perhaps The Mayor of Southend would oblige us with his seaxe.

I would be proud to be remembered like Wat Tyler. Wat Tyler had the backbone to stand up for what he believed in, in a country run by a brutal and cruel feudal system. Even though he, and many of his compatriots died, they succeeded in getting the first Poll Tax abolished. You will be buried and forgotten, because you have never had the guts to stand up for anything.

Fine perhaps the term: VW will be a better name for you goes with the German thinking!! Anorak!!!

I support legitimate protest in a democratic country. Protest is one of our rights as residents of a country which purports to be a free democracy which believes in free speech. Unfortunately people like Anna Waite don't understand that EVERYONE in Britain has the freedom to disagree with elected representatives. We have the right to do that free from insult and attack from those elected representatives. We are all equal in Britain. Anna Waite would prefer we all lived on Home Farm. Then, in between stuffing their faces with jam and wine, she and the rest of Southend's tories could write their rules on the walls of the Civic Centre, starting with: "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others." If by 'German thinking' you mean Nazi thinking, then you really are showing your ignorance. You see, the Nazis crushed all dissent, protestors were sent to concentration camps and murdered. YOU are the one who has called for the Priory Crescent protestors to be killed, to be buried in the road, to be driven over. YOU are the Nazi here clivE, not me. YOU are the one who is spitting on everything our forefathers fought, and died, to preserve. YOU are the one spitting on those brave men's graves. YOU are the disgrace to our country.

I agree I support protest to. So why not go stand on the steps of the Civic Centre instead of being in Camp Cuckoo. Oh by the way according to accounts atthe time Wat Tyler, born in essex and lived in Kent was "the greatest thief and robber in all Kent".

You'll have to do better than that. That quote is credited to a valet in the King's retinue. "At this time a certain valet from Kent, who was among the King's retinue, asked that the said Walter, the chief of the commons, might be pointed out to him. And when he saw him, he said aloud that he knew him for the greatest thief and robber in all Kent.... " I suppose you take everything Paul Burrell says as gospel too. These are the demands Wat Tyler made of the king: "Thereupon the said Walter rehearsed the points which were to be demanded; and he asked that there should be no law within the realm save the law of Winchester, and that from henceforth there should be no outlawry in any process of law, and that no lord should have lordship save civilly, and that there should be equality among all people save only the King, and that the goods of Holy Church should not remain in the hands of the religious, nor of parsons and vicars, and other churchmen; but that clergy already in possession should have a sufficient sustenance from the endowments, and the rest of the goods should be divided among the people of the parish. And he demanded that there should be only one bishop in England and only one prelate, and all the lands and tenements now held by them should be confiscated, and divided among the commons, only reserving for them a reasonable sustenance. And he demanded that there should be no more villeins in England, and no serfdom or villeinage, but that all men should be free and of one condition." Those sound like fairly level-headed and reasonable demands to me.

I repeat - so why are you camping out at cuckoo corner instead of protesting on the steps of the civic centre or standing for election to right all these supposed wrongs ?

And a modern day Wat Tyler you aint.

Mary Lou you touched the truth in a previous post of yours. These people are anti establishment and will protest about anything suggested by local or central goverment as a way of destabalizing the local and national economy.
They would not care if we entered the dark ages again as in some cases this is their personal choice on how they live. They wont stand for office because if they got into power there is no way they could implement their policys and know this. The other reason they dont stand is because the majority of voters do not want what they want or share their views.
It is fine to have a point of view, it is fine to protest about these points of view and problems with local goverment. But it is not ok to hold a town to ransome to stop others wishes being carried out. Why do they camp on the land?? because this is the only way they can see to delay or stop this council carrying out its duty to the people of southend who voted for them.
If the majority of people in southend didnt want this road it wouldnt go ahead as southend has already shown in the past if they really dont want something they turn out in numbers and dont just leave it to the Dirty dozen!!

Mary Lou wrote:

'V' wrote:

Mary Lou wrote:

'V' wrote:

evilc wrote:

'V' wrote:

evilc wrote: Luddites all of the huggers!! What on earth do they suggest : Do nothing and become a poverty struck area. Concrete over all of the campaigners especially V for victory in fact V could become the model for a Luddite statue which could be erected in Priory park. Rather like Basildon has done with Watt Tyler another failure of his time perhaps The Mayor of Southend would oblige us with his seaxe.

I would be proud to be remembered like Wat Tyler. Wat Tyler had the backbone to stand up for what he believed in, in a country run by a brutal and cruel feudal system. Even though he, and many of his compatriots died, they succeeded in getting the first Poll Tax abolished. You will be buried and forgotten, because you have never had the guts to stand up for anything.

Fine perhaps the term: VW will be a better name for you goes with the German thinking!! Anorak!!!

I support legitimate protest in a democratic country. Protest is one of our rights as residents of a country which purports to be a free democracy which believes in free speech. Unfortunately people like Anna Waite don't understand that EVERYONE in Britain has the freedom to disagree with elected representatives. We have the right to do that free from insult and attack from those elected representatives. We are all equal in Britain. Anna Waite would prefer we all lived on Home Farm. Then, in between stuffing their faces with jam and wine, she and the rest of Southend's tories could write their rules on the walls of the Civic Centre, starting with: "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others." If by 'German thinking' you mean Nazi thinking, then you really are showing your ignorance. You see, the Nazis crushed all dissent, protestors were sent to concentration camps and murdered. YOU are the one who has called for the Priory Crescent protestors to be killed, to be buried in the road, to be driven over. YOU are the Nazi here clivE, not me. YOU are the one who is spitting on everything our forefathers fought, and died, to preserve. YOU are the one spitting on those brave men's graves. YOU are the disgrace to our country.

I agree I support protest to. So why not go stand on the steps of the Civic Centre instead of being in Camp Cuckoo. Oh by the way according to accounts atthe time Wat Tyler, born in essex and lived in Kent was "the greatest thief and robber in all Kent".

You'll have to do better than that. That quote is credited to a valet in the King's retinue. "At this time a certain valet from Kent, who was among the King's retinue, asked that the said Walter, the chief of the commons, might be pointed out to him. And when he saw him, he said aloud that he knew him for the greatest thief and robber in all Kent.... " I suppose you take everything Paul Burrell says as gospel too. These are the demands Wat Tyler made of the king: "Thereupon the said Walter rehearsed the points which were to be demanded; and he asked that there should be no law within the realm save the law of Winchester, and that from henceforth there should be no outlawry in any process of law, and that no lord should have lordship save civilly, and that there should be equality among all people save only the King, and that the goods of Holy Church should not remain in the hands of the religious, nor of parsons and vicars, and other churchmen; but that clergy already in possession should have a sufficient sustenance from the endowments, and the rest of the goods should be divided among the people of the parish. And he demanded that there should be only one bishop in England and only one prelate, and all the lands and tenements now held by them should be confiscated, and divided among the commons, only reserving for them a reasonable sustenance. And he demanded that there should be no more villeins in England, and no serfdom or villeinage, but that all men should be free and of one condition." Those sound like fairly level-headed and reasonable demands to me.

I repeat - so why are you camping out at cuckoo corner instead of protesting on the steps of the civic centre or standing for election to right all these supposed wrongs ?

And a modern day Wat Tyler you aint.

What's up 'Mary Lou', got the ache because I highlighted your selective quotation?

I never claimed to be a modern day Wat Tyler, I simply said I would be proud to be remembered as he is.

As for protesting at Civic Centre, that is just what Chainsaw Waite wants, because as soon as the protestors are at the Civic Centre she'll send in her stormtroopers to rip down the trees.
I am increasingly of the opinion she is a few cards short of a full deck, as she obviously has a pathological hatred of anything green in our town.

http://www.seasidene
ws.net/

southendmechanic wrote:
http://www.seasidene

ws.net/

That is Chainsaw Waite's own website. Do you think it is unbiased and truthful?

V said "This whole project is an exercise in wasting taxpayers money purely for the sake of wasting money. It would be better spent repairing the Cliffs or the pier."

The money has to be spent by March 2011. Otherwise the Government take it back.
Spending the money to help get Southend moving again is not a waste.
Employing legal bods, Security, extra Police and delays to get rid of unwanted Shanty towns (which will happen), is a waste of tax payers money.

In 1381 the effort to strictly enforce the collection of taxes created discontent throughout England. Wat Tyler's rebellion was ignited when a tax collector tried to make a determination that Wat Tyler's daughter was of taxable age (15) by stripping her naked and assaulting her. Tyler, who was working close by, heard the screams of his wife and daughter, came running and smashed in the tax collector's skull with a hammer. He was cheered by his neighbours and the commoners of the western division of Kent were brought together by his courage. Wat Tyler was elected their leader. Wat Tyler's group joined another group led by two itinerant priests named John Ball and Jack Straw, and rose 100,000 strong to invade London. The enraged mob broke open every prison and beheaded every judge and lawyer they could capture. They were not allowed to enrich themselves in their rioting. Valuables found in their midst were destroyed. One man who hid a silver cup on his person was thrown into the river as punishment for his misdeed and as an example to others to refrain from such behaviour. In a face-to-face meeting with Wat Tyler a short time later, Richard II ordered the Lord Mayor of London to "set hands on him." Tyler was stabbed through the throat with a short sword and, as he lay writhing in agony on the ground after falling off his horse, stabbed through the belly. Watching from a distance the peasants instantly arranged themselves in order of battle with their longbows. Richard II rode up to them and said, "Wat Tyler was a traitor. I'll be your leader." Confused, the peasants followed the king until his soldiers met him and dispersed the crowd. They surrounded Richard II, who asked them what they wanted. Their answer was, "We will be free forever, our heirs and our lands." Richard II agreed, minus their leader the peasants went home. Richard reneged on his promises and hanged 1500 of the rebels after "jury trials." Those trials were presided over by Judge John Tresilian, who told the jurors in each case that he would hang them if they didn't convict. (Humbling isn’t it)

southendmechanic wrote:

southendreb wrote:

southendmechanic wrote: how comes southend united supporters managed 175 people to protest about ron martins running of the club but SKIPP cant manage more than 50!! to complain about the running of the whole town. Maybe most people are happy with the running of the town

Whatever your smoking i want any prhaps yopu should talk to people that live in southend because thats the silliest state thats been made for ages.

in what way dont you understand what was said?? Southend United supporters on saturday met to show their upset at ron martins running of the towns football club in attendance was 175 fans. SKIPP and PPPS have a protest into the road and manage 50 at the most. so Thats southend united 125 people more (alas first time for a bit that southend united has beaten someone by miles)than skipp managed. In the paper a week ago on friday it showed a picture of southend victoria circus full of people protesting about the possible closure of the towns cancer unit. possibly 300 people where in attendance and easily filled the area outside W H Smiths. So if the people in southend are really upset they know how to show it in numbers but SKIPP have never managed this and PPPS only ever had any real support when the park was believed threatened. (which it isnt) do you get the statement in the post now anything else on here you want help understanding??

Apologies mr mechanic i did not make myself clear As i like you agree that people should be allowed to protest . But not sure weather you should have a veto on what is right or wrong. But what i meant was the last part of your post which says Maybe most people are happy with the running of the town. You obviously talk to different people than me

The only ache I've got is that of being feed up of direct action protestors who do not like democracy.

I have posted before and its worth repeating, trees were chopped down to build:
Our hospitals and clinics.
All of our schools.
Fire and police stations.
Sewer and pumping stations.
Our roads.
The industry and retail business that keeps the local economy going.

This was done on our behalf by our elected representatives.

If the cuckoo landers don't like it and won't or can't engage in local elections then feel free to move to mid Wales and live in a teepee.

Mary Lou wrote:
The only ache I've got is that of being feed up of direct action protestors who do not like democracy.

I have posted before and its worth repeating, trees were chopped down to build:
Our hospitals and clinics.
All of our schools.
Fire and police stations.
Sewer and pumping stations.
Our roads.
The industry and retail business that keeps the local economy going.

This was done on our behalf by our elected representatives.

If the cuckoo landers don't like it and won't or can't engage in local elections then feel free to move to mid Wales and live in a teepee.

It was not done on my behalf. I did not ask them to destroy the local environment just so fat lazy car drivers can cut fifteen seconds off their journeys.

I'm not an expert on road systems so don't really know precisely what effect the "improvements" would have. I do, however, know that mature trees add beauty while improving the quality of the air we all breathe. I also know it is grossly unprofessional to call a wide cross-section of the local community (many of whom are undoubtedly far more highly-qualified than Ms. Waite), who show their concern for the environement,,"treeh
uggers"! What rudeness. How dare relevant and highly topical concerns of local residents be brushed aside in such a way! Such "out of touch" staetments are verging on Marie Antoinette's "let them eat cake" in my opinion.

Those responsible for the current Cuckoo Corner situation (I won't resort to rudeness myself) should not feign surprise and sadness that so many question the truth of their latest traffic scheme rhetoric. Have they never heard the story of "the boy who cried wolf"? Those who lie, mislead, and do underhand things such as chopping down established trees at 2 a.m. under cover of darkness,. as was done at Victoria Circus, deserve every bit of skepticism and contempt they receive thereafter.

Please stop treating the residents of Southend Borough like uneducated idiots. Whether formally educated or not, a great many local residents are blessed with an abundance of common sense and deserve to have their concerns listened to and answered. Equally, just because an individual is employed by a local council on the strength of paper qualifications does NOT mean they have common sense - sadly this is a situation we in Southend have come to know only too well over recent times!

One thing that I beleive has been missed in all this, if the tree people really cared about trees why are they not at progress road were much older trees are to be removed with no replacement program of even one to one. Clearly its too far from there nice warm homes were they can spend cold days watching satlite telly paid for with there dole money

strawbette wrote:
I'm not an expert on road systems so don't really know precisely what effect the "improvements" would have. I do, however, know that mature trees add beauty while improving the quality of the air we all breathe. I also know it is grossly unprofessional to call a wide cross-section of the local community (many of whom are undoubtedly far more highly-qualified than Ms. Waite), who show their concern for the environement,,"treeh

uggers"! What rudeness. How dare relevant and highly topical concerns of local residents be brushed aside in such a way! Such "out of touch" staetments are verging on Marie Antoinette's "let them eat cake" in my opinion.

Those responsible for the current Cuckoo Corner situation (I won't resort to rudeness myself) should not feign surprise and sadness that so many question the truth of their latest traffic scheme rhetoric. Have they never heard the story of "the boy who cried wolf"? Those who lie, mislead, and do underhand things such as chopping down established trees at 2 a.m. under cover of darkness,. as was done at Victoria Circus, deserve every bit of skepticism and contempt they receive thereafter.

Please stop treating the residents of Southend Borough like uneducated idiots. Whether formally educated or not, a great many local residents are blessed with an abundance of common sense and deserve to have their concerns listened to and answered. Equally, just because an individual is employed by a local council on the strength of paper qualifications does NOT mean they have common sense - sadly this is a situation we in Southend have come to know only too well over recent times!

Hear, hear!

V should stand for Victoriana because you seem to be stuck in that period.

Come on Anne lets build the road that is from the Victorian period.

Also V you state you like democracy in one breath then say you are fed up with my comments, do you actually know what democracy means ?
If you do know ignore my right wing comments.

Keep taking teddy to bed.

So what the protesters are saying is that they don't appreciate the desires of a minority?

Pots and kettles spring to mind...

This is a very aptly named camp. Cuckoo = “Somebody regarded as eccentric or unconventional”! Understatement of the decade but still very appropriate!

Once again I was at the camp over the weekend to show my support on Saturday night/Sunday morning and ONCE AGAIN there were over 50 people there! And once again the community spirit was amazing and very uplifting, with people from all walks of life coming together. After Anna Waite's ignorant and offensive labelling of a whole cross-section of concerned residents and after reading some of the above comments which persist in trying to give the impression that there are only a handful of people who support the protesters, I am even more proud to say that I am one of their large and rapidly growing number! That may be hard for some people to understand because they've never taken the time to actually come over and meet us but have instead chosen to drive past over and over again which I find very sad! The vast majority of people I have met over there all work full-time with family and other commitments and I applaud anyone who gives up their limited free time to go over there and stand up to the Council. The main purpose of the camp is to maintain a presence there at all times so that the rest of us can get on with our lives and be called upon as and when needed. We now know that we are ready, willing and able should the need arise although the Council is obviously running scared - hence Anna Waite's pathetic misleading pictures and sapling-planting publicity stunt last week! We are now well into the nesting season yet it apears that the Council is still determined to fell those trees and looking to use its timeless excuse of the trees being diseased, dangerous and a threat to passers-by! The Council declared those same trees diseased 6 years ago during its last attempt to widen Priory Crescent but surprise, surprise they are still standing and growing perfectly well today! With every day that passes Anna Waite and the Tory dictatorship at Southend Council are becoming more and more unpopular and it will be interesting to see if they are willing to gamble their futures by mindlessly destroying more of our town.

Carrie.C wrote:
Once again I was at the camp over the weekend to show my support on Saturday night/Sunday morning and ONCE AGAIN there were over 50 people there! And once again the community spirit was amazing and very uplifting, with people from all walks of life coming together. After Anna Waite's ignorant and offensive labelling of a whole cross-section of concerned residents and after reading some of the above comments which persist in trying to give the impression that there are only a handful of people who support the protesters, I am even more proud to say that I am one of their large and rapidly growing number! That may be hard for some people to understand because they've never taken the time to actually come over and meet us but have instead chosen to drive past over and over again which I find very sad! The vast majority of people I have met over there all work full-time with family and other commitments and I applaud anyone who gives up their limited free time to go over there and stand up to the Council. The main purpose of the camp is to maintain a presence there at all times so that the rest of us can get on with our lives and be called upon as and when needed. We now know that we are ready, willing and able should the need arise although the Council is obviously running scared - hence Anna Waite's pathetic misleading pictures and sapling-planting publicity stunt last week! We are now well into the nesting season yet it apears that the Council is still determined to fell those trees and looking to use its timeless excuse of the trees being diseased, dangerous and a threat to passers-by! The Council declared those same trees diseased 6 years ago during its last attempt to widen Priory Crescent but surprise, surprise they are still standing and growing perfectly well today! With every day that passes Anna Waite and the Tory dictatorship at Southend Council are becoming more and more unpopular and it will be interesting to see if they are willing to gamble their futures by mindlessly destroying more of our town.

I'm sure you're very proud of taking part in an illegal squat, whilst knowing that you can retreat to your own bed at any point. Well done.

"but have instead chosen to drive past over and over again which I find very sad!"

I have never seen more than 15 or 20 people there when you claim to have 50 there., even with independent witnesses.. But thats by the by. I personally drive past because it is my commuting route and the main route from the East.
I have no interest in stopping and talking to them because the fact is the cause is not just. The council did not lie about cuckoo corner.
Enjoy you Shanty town while you can! ;)

With swampy types climbing into the trees are there any birds nesting in them anyway?

Anna Waite has made fools out of you. If birds are nesting in the trees
they may not be able to chop them downtil july or august . If so why were they not cut down earlier.

We don’t need to meet the people to know whether it’s a bad idea or not; what difference does that make?! They may be the loveliest, most well-intentioned people out there but are under the impression they’re doing the right thing when they’re not! Doesn’t change the fact that the road scheme is a good idea and will help traffic! I'm sure they mean well but give it a rest. 50 people anyway...wow... how many people live in Southend and the surrounding area? 50 is absolutely nothing compared with the number of residents (not that I believe it was actually 50 as I’ve been past many times and it never even seems half that!).

I've stayed out of this one but I reckon the bit about "If we don't go ahead we stand to lose £5m" says it all......
Good luck to the tree huggers. Their camp may not be pretty but I don't see it having much effect on the chaos that is the A127.

Piecemeal junction improvements will do very little to speed things up and a major upgrading of the London - Southend "trunk" route should have happened years ago before all the housing and commercial development got in the way.

With all the pressure from Central Government and the quangos for more and more housing, yet precious little planning for infrastructure, things will only get worse.....

Well done whinger...:)

I wondered when someone would twig onto that little nugget.

It is all about losing the money....

Soozie wrote:
Well done whinger...:)

I wondered when someone would twig onto that little nugget.

It is all about losing the money....

Partly it is yes. That has been openly stated by the council. They must use the funding by March 2011. That doesn't detract from the necessity of improvements needed.
The speed bumps breeding in Southend costs between £2000 and £10000 each to install, and £5m in road infrastructure is not a great deal of money (I wish I had it though), so the best short term solution with the funds available is on the table. Again that has been stated previously.
I agree with the protestors that call for better mass transit and public transport. Nobody doesn't, but that is decades off as we are decades behind europe.
If you visit European towns and cities (I appreciate some of you don't travel outside of the UK to protect your carbon footprint), they often have dedicated tramways and bus lanes (I'm sure no trees were harmed in the making of said tramways or bus routes). But they also have the space.
Public transport (however good), will not replace personal transport for many. Its not, and never will be practical.
Its interesting that the Greenies keep going on about high speed rail etc. Now that plans for a high speed link to Birmingham have been discussed with the routing, some Green organisations are beginning to realise what building railways actually entail and how much land will be taken.
.......
"Friends of the Earth's Executive Director Andy Atkins also emphasised the importance of minimising the impact on communities and the environment and expressed concern that the programme, as it stands, will have a minimal impact on reducing carbon emissions – and may even increase them. "
......
mmmmm.