Turn out tomorrow to honour our heroes (From Echo)

It might be a good idea if the soldiers read up on waht they are really fighting for - and it isn't to keep us safe. Imagine the lack of honour in a man who would kill to order - for no good reason except his own income. Three quarters of the people in this country wanted the troops out of Aghanistan years ago, but the Government did just enough to pacify the calls for withdrawl. The second world war soldier had honour and just cause. The current crop of soldiers are brainwashed, mercenaries, sadists, or plain stupid. Or all of the above. They are an embarassment to those who strive for peace. The soldiers may be brave but that counts for little when accompanying stupidity. The soldiers are dull vibrations of humanity. The parade is a glorification of manipulation by the ruling classes of ordinary men - to throw away sense and reasoning, pick up a gun and oft kill the innocent. The parade serves only to perpetuate the aspirations of the greedy. How we love a parade ............ until we swallow a bitter pill and wake up to reality. They have no honour when seen through the collective eyes of all humanity.

David Crown wrote:
It might be a good idea if the soldiers read up on waht they are really fighting for - and it isn't to keep us safe. Imagine the lack of honour in a man who would kill to order - for no good reason except his own income. Three quarters of the people in this country wanted the troops out of Aghanistan years ago, but the Government did just enough to pacify the calls for withdrawl. The second world war soldier had honour and just cause. The current crop of soldiers are brainwashed, mercenaries, sadists, or plain stupid. Or all of the above. They are an embarassment to those who strive for peace. The soldiers may be brave but that counts for little when accompanying stupidity. The soldiers are dull vibrations of humanity. The parade is a glorification of manipulation by the ruling classes of ordinary men - to throw away sense and reasoning, pick up a gun and oft kill the innocent. The parade serves only to perpetuate the aspirations of the greedy. How we love a parade ............ until we swallow a bitter pill and wake up to reality. They have no honour when seen through the collective eyes of all humanity.

Take it you want be there to tell them that to their faces then.

Tony Ball said its 'One of the proudest moments of his life'. Tony Ball I think you need to get a life! Sad sad man.

David Crown wrote:
It might be a good idea if the soldiers read up on waht they are really fighting for - and it isn't to keep us safe. Imagine the lack of honour in a man who would kill to order - for no good reason except his own income. Three quarters of the people in this country wanted the troops out of Aghanistan years ago, but the Government did just enough to pacify the calls for withdrawl. The second world war soldier had honour and just cause. The current crop of soldiers are brainwashed, mercenaries, sadists, or plain stupid. Or all of the above. They are an embarassment to those who strive for peace. The soldiers may be brave but that counts for little when accompanying stupidity. The soldiers are dull vibrations of humanity. The parade is a glorification of manipulation by the ruling classes of ordinary men - to throw away sense and reasoning, pick up a gun and oft kill the innocent. The parade serves only to perpetuate the aspirations of the greedy. How we love a parade ............ until we swallow a bitter pill and wake up to reality. They have no honour when seen through the collective eyes of all humanity.

but you'll still want to stand behind a soldier when the sh!t hit the fan

Pr@tt

David Crown you are entitled to your own opinion but I can tell you that I will be there tomorrow cheering for not only my son but all the guys that went through hell in Afghanistan for our safety. Yes they do get paid to do their job but it is nowhere near enough and I think you will find that the parade is for people to honour our lads and show them how much we appreciate them. They are amazing lads and have far more respect than you obviously have. As I said you can have your opinion but it's very shallow and quite twisted as you obviously do not have a clue what you are talking about

big up to all the boys and girls out there doing their bit.

David Crown wrote:
It might be a good idea if the soldiers read up on waht they are really fighting for - and it isn't to keep us safe. Imagine the lack of honour in a man who would kill to order - for no good reason except his own income. Three quarters of the people in this country wanted the troops out of Aghanistan years ago, but the Government did just enough to pacify the calls for withdrawl. The second world war soldier had honour and just cause. The current crop of soldiers are brainwashed, mercenaries, sadists, or plain stupid. Or all of the above. They are an embarassment to those who strive for peace. The soldiers may be brave but that counts for little when accompanying stupidity. The soldiers are dull vibrations of humanity. The parade is a glorification of manipulation by the ruling classes of ordinary men - to throw away sense and reasoning, pick up a gun and oft kill the innocent. The parade serves only to perpetuate the aspirations of the greedy. How we love a parade ............ until we swallow a bitter pill and wake up to reality. They have no honour when seen through the collective eyes of all humanity.

The true heroes are those who gave their lives in the first and second world wars. It is those people for whom I will stand silent for 2 minutes on the 11th.

We all get subjected to propaganda daily and it is sad that people cannot see that. I am sure there is a lot of it in the forces as well targeted at families. I know that I have relatives who are blinded by this and think that some humans are heroes over and above others, such as nurses, fire crews, police, ambulance, doctors etc.

David Crown wrote:
It might be a good idea if the soldiers read up on waht they are really fighting for - and it isn't to keep us safe. Imagine the lack of honour in a man who would kill to order - for no good reason except his own income. Three quarters of the people in this country wanted the troops out of Aghanistan years ago, but the Government did just enough to pacify the calls for withdrawl. The second world war soldier had honour and just cause. The current crop of soldiers are brainwashed, mercenaries, sadists, or plain stupid. Or all of the above. They are an embarassment to those who strive for peace. The soldiers may be brave but that counts for little when accompanying stupidity. The soldiers are dull vibrations of humanity. The parade is a glorification of manipulation by the ruling classes of ordinary men - to throw away sense and reasoning, pick up a gun and oft kill the innocent. The parade serves only to perpetuate the aspirations of the greedy. How we love a parade ............ until we swallow a bitter pill and wake up to reality. They have no honour when seen through the collective eyes of all humanity.

Just hope you never come into our pub and talk like that

John T Pharro wrote:

David Crown wrote:
It might be a good idea if the soldiers read up on waht they are really fighting for - and it isn't to keep us safe. Imagine the lack of honour in a man who would kill to order - for no good reason except his own income. Three quarters of the people in this country wanted the troops out of Aghanistan years ago, but the Government did just enough to pacify the calls for withdrawl. The second world war soldier had honour and just cause. The current crop of soldiers are brainwashed, mercenaries, sadists, or plain stupid. Or all of the above. They are an embarassment to those who strive for peace. The soldiers may be brave but that counts for little when accompanying stupidity. The soldiers are dull vibrations of humanity. The parade is a glorification of manipulation by the ruling classes of ordinary men - to throw away sense and reasoning, pick up a gun and oft kill the innocent. The parade serves only to perpetuate the aspirations of the greedy. How we love a parade ............ until we swallow a bitter pill and wake up to reality. They have no honour when seen through the collective eyes of all humanity.

Take it you want be there to tell them that to their faces then.

I've told them soldiers to their faces before and will surely do it again. I'm polite and to the point. I respect their bravery but ask them to question the motives of those who will send them to Afghanistan with their brains left at home.

Jose El Mezclador wrote:

David Crown wrote:
It might be a good idea if the soldiers read up on waht they are really fighting for - and it isn't to keep us safe. Imagine the lack of honour in a man who would kill to order - for no good reason except his own income. Three quarters of the people in this country wanted the troops out of Aghanistan years ago, but the Government did just enough to pacify the calls for withdrawl. The second world war soldier had honour and just cause. The current crop of soldiers are brainwashed, mercenaries, sadists, or plain stupid. Or all of the above. They are an embarassment to those who strive for peace. The soldiers may be brave but that counts for little when accompanying stupidity. The soldiers are dull vibrations of humanity. The parade is a glorification of manipulation by the ruling classes of ordinary men - to throw away sense and reasoning, pick up a gun and oft kill the innocent. The parade serves only to perpetuate the aspirations of the greedy. How we love a parade ............ until we swallow a bitter pill and wake up to reality. They have no honour when seen through the collective eyes of all humanity.

but you'll still want to stand behind a soldier when the sh!t hit the fan

Pr@tt

On the contrary I would be there beside them defending my family and friends if GB was under attack. If you've noticed the ministry of defence is now the ministry of attack.

David Crown wrote:

Jose El Mezclador wrote:

David Crown wrote:
It might be a good idea if the soldiers read up on waht they are really fighting for - and it isn't to keep us safe. Imagine the lack of honour in a man who would kill to order - for no good reason except his own income. Three quarters of the people in this country wanted the troops out of Aghanistan years ago, but the Government did just enough to pacify the calls for withdrawl. The second world war soldier had honour and just cause. The current crop of soldiers are brainwashed, mercenaries, sadists, or plain stupid. Or all of the above. They are an embarassment to those who strive for peace. The soldiers may be brave but that counts for little when accompanying stupidity. The soldiers are dull vibrations of humanity. The parade is a glorification of manipulation by the ruling classes of ordinary men - to throw away sense and reasoning, pick up a gun and oft kill the innocent. The parade serves only to perpetuate the aspirations of the greedy. How we love a parade ............ until we swallow a bitter pill and wake up to reality. They have no honour when seen through the collective eyes of all humanity.

but you'll still want to stand behind a soldier when the sh!t hit the fan

Pr@tt

On the contrary I would be there beside them defending my family and friends if GB was under attack. If you've noticed the ministry of defence is now the ministry of attack.

Have you actually read what you called these soldiers? Try telling that to their faces! The last person I would want behind me is you ( apart from Basildon boy). You and him should get together with a banner tomorrow so we can all see who you are.
Will donate £10 to the British Legion for each one of you there.

Dids wrote:

David Crown wrote:
It might be a good idea if the soldiers read up on waht they are really fighting for - and it isn't to keep us safe. Imagine the lack of honour in a man who would kill to order - for no good reason except his own income. Three quarters of the people in this country wanted the troops out of Aghanistan years ago, but the Government did just enough to pacify the calls for withdrawl. The second world war soldier had honour and just cause. The current crop of soldiers are brainwashed, mercenaries, sadists, or plain stupid. Or all of the above. They are an embarassment to those who strive for peace. The soldiers may be brave but that counts for little when accompanying stupidity. The soldiers are dull vibrations of humanity. The parade is a glorification of manipulation by the ruling classes of ordinary men - to throw away sense and reasoning, pick up a gun and oft kill the innocent. The parade serves only to perpetuate the aspirations of the greedy. How we love a parade ............ until we swallow a bitter pill and wake up to reality. They have no honour when seen through the collective eyes of all humanity.

Just hope you never come into our pub and talk like that

I've never been scared to voice my opinion I can assure you. People like you do not scare me and will never silence me and millions of others who think this way. You add to my conviction. In fact you add to my argument - oozing fear, negativity. It is hard to remove the blinkers and see the truth of why and what our soldiers die for. It would be brave for you to see this truth. Of you could stay with your head in the sand.

David Crown wrote:

Dids wrote:

David Crown wrote:
It might be a good idea if the soldiers read up on waht they are really fighting for - and it isn't to keep us safe. Imagine the lack of honour in a man who would kill to order - for no good reason except his own income. Three quarters of the people in this country wanted the troops out of Aghanistan years ago, but the Government did just enough to pacify the calls for withdrawl. The second world war soldier had honour and just cause. The current crop of soldiers are brainwashed, mercenaries, sadists, or plain stupid. Or all of the above. They are an embarassment to those who strive for peace. The soldiers may be brave but that counts for little when accompanying stupidity. The soldiers are dull vibrations of humanity. The parade is a glorification of manipulation by the ruling classes of ordinary men - to throw away sense and reasoning, pick up a gun and oft kill the innocent. The parade serves only to perpetuate the aspirations of the greedy. How we love a parade ............ until we swallow a bitter pill and wake up to reality. They have no honour when seen through the collective eyes of all humanity.

Just hope you never come into our pub and talk like that

I've never been scared to voice my opinion I can assure you. People like you do not scare me and will never silence me and millions of others who think this way. You add to my conviction. In fact you add to my argument - oozing fear, negativity. It is hard to remove the blinkers and see the truth of why and what our soldiers die for. It would be brave for you to see this truth. Of you could stay with your head in the sand.

Dids let me know which is your pub I will buy you a pint and buy Mr Crown two if he turns up.

DebbyEaton wrote:
David Crown you are entitled to your own opinion but I can tell you that I will be there tomorrow cheering for not only my son but all the guys that went through hell in Afghanistan for our safety. Yes they do get paid to do their job but it is nowhere near enough and I think you will find that the parade is for people to honour our lads and show them how much we appreciate them. They are amazing lads and have far more respect than you obviously have. As I said you can have your opinion but it's very shallow and quite twisted as you obviously do not have a clue what you are talking about

They are only amazing in that they are indeed brave, like your son - no question. But you have to consider how much of a hold groups like the military industrial complex, private banks and big corporations have on our politicians. They lobby and lean and bribe so powerfully to get what they want. 'Order out of chaos' should read 'money out of order out of chaos'. Your son did not fight for me and millions of others in this country. The vast majority wanted them out of Afghanistan years ago, but soldiers cannot disobey their masters - and thats where the stupidity of the armed forces personnel comes in. They are mere mercenaries in Afghanistan, as they were in Iraq. Its hard for you to detach as your son is risking his life, but I ask you, how can you live with the fact that your son helps to prop up a corrupt political position that results in the deaths, nay murder, of innocent women and children. Or as the army like to call them - collateral damage.

John T Pharro wrote:

David Crown wrote:

Jose El Mezclador wrote:

David Crown wrote:
It might be a good idea if the soldiers read up on waht they are really fighting for - and it isn't to keep us safe. Imagine the lack of honour in a man who would kill to order - for no good reason except his own income. Three quarters of the people in this country wanted the troops out of Aghanistan years ago, but the Government did just enough to pacify the calls for withdrawl. The second world war soldier had honour and just cause. The current crop of soldiers are brainwashed, mercenaries, sadists, or plain stupid. Or all of the above. They are an embarassment to those who strive for peace. The soldiers may be brave but that counts for little when accompanying stupidity. The soldiers are dull vibrations of humanity. The parade is a glorification of manipulation by the ruling classes of ordinary men - to throw away sense and reasoning, pick up a gun and oft kill the innocent. The parade serves only to perpetuate the aspirations of the greedy. How we love a parade ............ until we swallow a bitter pill and wake up to reality. They have no honour when seen through the collective eyes of all humanity.

but you'll still want to stand behind a soldier when the sh!t hit the fan

Pr@tt

On the contrary I would be there beside them defending my family and friends if GB was under attack. If you've noticed the ministry of defence is now the ministry of attack.

Have you actually read what you called these soldiers? Try telling that to their faces! The last person I would want behind me is you ( apart from Basildon boy). You and him should get together with a banner tomorrow so we can all see who you are.
Will donate £10 to the British Legion for each one of you there.

Then I will be there. The British Legion does good work. In particular its support for the white poppy as well as the red poppy reflects their collective sentiment towards war. There comes a time when real men have to stand up and say 'What on earth, and who on earth, are we fighting for?'. That requires even more bravery than taking orders. If the soldiers wish to raise their vibrational state from 'dull' then they would be advised to research the real enemy. The enemy that is responsible for sending hundreds of soldiers to their deaths. That enemy is a lot closer than you would think. Understand that what the monied and the powerful in this country do and have done for centuries is to use our young boys as canon fodder. They disrupt regions around the world they want to exploit. Then they con us by saying our troops need to go in and once stablilty has been achieved they plunder that country by creating a central bank, plunging it into debt, and raping its raw materials.

David Crown wrote:

John T Pharro wrote:

David Crown wrote:

Jose El Mezclador wrote:

David Crown wrote:
It might be a good idea if the soldiers read up on waht they are really fighting for - and it isn't to keep us safe. Imagine the lack of honour in a man who would kill to order - for no good reason except his own income. Three quarters of the people in this country wanted the troops out of Aghanistan years ago, but the Government did just enough to pacify the calls for withdrawl. The second world war soldier had honour and just cause. The current crop of soldiers are brainwashed, mercenaries, sadists, or plain stupid. Or all of the above. They are an embarassment to those who strive for peace. The soldiers may be brave but that counts for little when accompanying stupidity. The soldiers are dull vibrations of humanity. The parade is a glorification of manipulation by the ruling classes of ordinary men - to throw away sense and reasoning, pick up a gun and oft kill the innocent. The parade serves only to perpetuate the aspirations of the greedy. How we love a parade ............ until we swallow a bitter pill and wake up to reality. They have no honour when seen through the collective eyes of all humanity.

but you'll still want to stand behind a soldier when the sh!t hit the fan

Pr@tt

On the contrary I would be there beside them defending my family and friends if GB was under attack. If you've noticed the ministry of defence is now the ministry of attack.

Have you actually read what you called these soldiers? Try telling that to their faces! The last person I would want behind me is you ( apart from Basildon boy). You and him should get together with a banner tomorrow so we can all see who you are.
Will donate £10 to the British Legion for each one of you there.

Then I will be there. The British Legion does good work. In particular its support for the white poppy as well as the red poppy reflects their collective sentiment towards war. There comes a time when real men have to stand up and say 'What on earth, and who on earth, are we fighting for?'. That requires even more bravery than taking orders. If the soldiers wish to raise their vibrational state from 'dull' then they would be advised to research the real enemy. The enemy that is responsible for sending hundreds of soldiers to their deaths. That enemy is a lot closer than you would think. Understand that what the monied and the powerful in this country do and have done for centuries is to use our young boys as canon fodder. They disrupt regions around the world they want to exploit. Then they con us by saying our troops need to go in and once stablilty has been achieved they plunder that country by creating a central bank, plunging it into debt, and raping its raw materials.

"Dull" that was not what you called them "brainwashed,mercena
ries, sadists, or just plain stupid".
That is unacceptable so don't hide behind a holier than thou attitude.

It is a well known fact that there are sadists residing in the army. Don't tell me you dispute that one. Mercenaries are people who do the job solely for the money. Plenty of them in the army. Brainwashed - of course some of them have been - its called military conditioning. Plain stupid - you bet - the Army loves that type of low level recruit. Of course there are the intelligent well meaning ones who question whether they should be fighting this war and that war but just get on with it . . . . and these are the worst. They've figured out the game but done nothing about it and in the process become pure mercenaries, in it only for the money, with little if any integrity. And then we come to the exceptions, like Joe Glenton. Joe, I salute you. He figured out the game and stood by his newly found principals. A truly, brave and honourable man. So many people believe the propaganda in the newspapers about our soldiers - our brave boys. Brave yes, exercising brain and reason for the betterment of others - no sir, they do not. Ive talked with many ex-serviceman re a solution and they feel the only option in today's climate would be to start our own defence force, seperate to the Crown's. A defence force made up of ex-servicemen who have seen the truth and wish only to defend their country and not attack others for elite greed and power.

Well l certainly wouldn`t turn out to support them!!, and agree with David Crowns views.
The fact is that this war and in lraq, is not our war. lf our country was being attacked l would think differently, but it is not, and l don`t think we have any business going in to someone else`s country and telling them how to do things, theirs is a different culture, and you cannot enforce democracy at the point of a gun, it never works,democracy has to come from WITHIN their own country, not enforced from outside. lt will take longer, but it will happen and will be more peaceful. Even the government has said that this war is " unwinnable". Took them long enough to realise that, l could have told them that 10 tears ago, but then l, unlike the government have insight. The only reason they went to war in lraq was for the oil and the fat contracts that materialised afterwards. l never, for 1 second, believed there were any WMD,and there weren`t. Also, look around the world, there are wars everywhere,terrible things happening in Dafur for example, with women and children being burned alive in their houses, but did britain get involved in those, No, for the simple reason that there was no oil. l will never understand the parents of these young men and women who say of their DEAD children, " Oh, l am so proud of my son/daughter, they died doing the job they loved" . WAKE UP! the army doesn`t care about your children, they don`t even give them the correct equipment for the job for heaven`s sake which is a contributing factor in some deaths, they are just pawns of a government that couldn`t care less so why be proud? This country should keep it`s nose out of other countries business, and concentrate on the severe social problems we have in THIS country, like anti social behaviour, poor parenting,child abuse, 1 child dies at the hands of a parent or carer EVERY WEEK IN THE UK, which is something of which to feel deeply ashamed, these are figures from the NSPCC, which l worked for on a voluntary basis, ect and save the money we spend fighting other peoples wars for OUR schools, hospitals ect, if we can`t even manage to put our own affairs in order, who the hell are we to tell others how to run theirs.

Beautifully put Almeda11.

Almeda11 wrote:
Well l certainly wouldn`t turn out to support them!!, and agree with David Crowns views.
The fact is that this war and in lraq, is not our war. lf our country was being attacked l would think differently, but it is not, and l don`t think we have any business going in to someone else`s country and telling them how to do things, theirs is a different culture, and you cannot enforce democracy at the point of a gun, it never works,democracy has to come from WITHIN their own country, not enforced from outside. lt will take longer, but it will happen and will be more peaceful. Even the government has said that this war is " unwinnable". Took them long enough to realise that, l could have told them that 10 tears ago, but then l, unlike the government have insight. The only reason they went to war in lraq was for the oil and the fat contracts that materialised afterwards. l never, for 1 second, believed there were any WMD,and there weren`t. Also, look around the world, there are wars everywhere,terrible things happening in Dafur for example, with women and children being burned alive in their houses, but did britain get involved in those, No, for the simple reason that there was no oil. l will never understand the parents of these young men and women who say of their DEAD children, " Oh, l am so proud of my son/daughter, they died doing the job they loved" . WAKE UP! the army doesn`t care about your children, they don`t even give them the correct equipment for the job for heaven`s sake which is a contributing factor in some deaths, they are just pawns of a government that couldn`t care less so why be proud? This country should keep it`s nose out of other countries business, and concentrate on the severe social problems we have in THIS country, like anti social behaviour, poor parenting,child abuse, 1 child dies at the hands of a parent or carer EVERY WEEK IN THE UK, which is something of which to feel deeply ashamed, these are figures from the NSPCC, which l worked for on a voluntary basis, ect and save the money we spend fighting other peoples wars for OUR schools, hospitals ect, if we can`t even manage to put our own affairs in order, who the hell are we to tell others how to run theirs.

My oh my you have no idea what you are talking about as soon as I see your comment about the war in Iraq I stopped reading as that summed up your knowledge there & then its afghanistan you silly girl. Im proud of our soldiers and was lovely to see them today and a great crowd showing their support. David crown why don't I believe you when you say you told our troops what you think, you keep on hiding behind a computer screen with basildon lad sad sad little men. Real men & women doing an amazing job stand strong we are all so proud despite what the keyboard warriors say.

Almeda11 wrote:
Well l certainly wouldn`t turn out to support them!!, and agree with David Crowns views.
The fact is that this war and in lraq, is not our war. lf our country was being attacked l would think differently, but it is not, and l don`t think we have any business going in to someone else`s country and telling them how to do things, theirs is a different culture, and you cannot enforce democracy at the point of a gun, it never works,democracy has to come from WITHIN their own country, not enforced from outside. lt will take longer, but it will happen and will be more peaceful. Even the government has said that this war is " unwinnable". Took them long enough to realise that, l could have told them that 10 tears ago, but then l, unlike the government have insight. The only reason they went to war in lraq was for the oil and the fat contracts that materialised afterwards. l never, for 1 second, believed there were any WMD,and there weren`t. Also, look around the world, there are wars everywhere,terrible things happening in Dafur for example, with women and children being burned alive in their houses, but did britain get involved in those, No, for the simple reason that there was no oil. l will never understand the parents of these young men and women who say of their DEAD children, " Oh, l am so proud of my son/daughter, they died doing the job they loved" . WAKE UP! the army doesn`t care about your children, they don`t even give them the correct equipment for the job for heaven`s sake which is a contributing factor in some deaths, they are just pawns of a government that couldn`t care less so why be proud? This country should keep it`s nose out of other countries business, and concentrate on the severe social problems we have in THIS country, like anti social behaviour, poor parenting,child abuse, 1 child dies at the hands of a parent or carer EVERY WEEK IN THE UK, which is something of which to feel deeply ashamed, these are figures from the NSPCC, which l worked for on a voluntary basis, ect and save the money we spend fighting other peoples wars for OUR schools, hospitals ect, if we can`t even manage to put our own affairs in order, who the hell are we to tell others how to run theirs.

And you are a liar our government have never said we can not win this war. Maybe you should get your facts straight first and not believe what you read in the papers & actually get some evidence to back up your crazy comments.

David Crown wrote:
It is a well known fact that there are sadists residing in the army. Don't tell me you dispute that one. Mercenaries are people who do the job solely for the money. Plenty of them in the army. Brainwashed - of course some of them have been - its called military conditioning. Plain stupid - you bet - the Army loves that type of low level recruit. Of course there are the intelligent well meaning ones who question whether they should be fighting this war and that war but just get on with it . . . . and these are the worst. They've figured out the game but done nothing about it and in the process become pure mercenaries, in it only for the money, with little if any integrity. And then we come to the exceptions, like Joe Glenton. Joe, I salute you. He figured out the game and stood by his newly found principals. A truly, brave and honourable man. So many people believe the propaganda in the newspapers about our soldiers - our brave boys. Brave yes, exercising brain and reason for the betterment of others - no sir, they do not. Ive talked with many ex-serviceman re a solution and they feel the only option in today's climate would be to start our own defence force, seperate to the Crown's. A defence force made up of ex-servicemen who have seen the truth and wish only to defend their country and not attack others for elite greed and power.

Haha you are actually crazy, you speak complete rubbish and clearly only know anything about our troops and war through the media. Everything you have waffled on about is rubbish and clearly only how you see it through your crazy mental state, you believe your crazy views its quite comical.

smithy741 wrote:

Almeda11 wrote: Well l certainly wouldn`t turn out to support them!!, and agree with David Crowns views. The fact is that this war and in lraq, is not our war. lf our country was being attacked l would think differently, but it is not, and l don`t think we have any business going in to someone else`s country and telling them how to do things, theirs is a different culture, and you cannot enforce democracy at the point of a gun, it never works,democracy has to come from WITHIN their own country, not enforced from outside. lt will take longer, but it will happen and will be more peaceful. Even the government has said that this war is " unwinnable". Took them long enough to realise that, l could have told them that 10 tears ago, but then l, unlike the government have insight. The only reason they went to war in lraq was for the oil and the fat contracts that materialised afterwards. l never, for 1 second, believed there were any WMD,and there weren`t. Also, look around the world, there are wars everywhere,terrible things happening in Dafur for example, with women and children being burned alive in their houses, but did britain get involved in those, No, for the simple reason that there was no oil. l will never understand the parents of these young men and women who say of their DEAD children, " Oh, l am so proud of my son/daughter, they died doing the job they loved" . WAKE UP! the army doesn`t care about your children, they don`t even give them the correct equipment for the job for heaven`s sake which is a contributing factor in some deaths, they are just pawns of a government that couldn`t care less so why be proud? This country should keep it`s nose out of other countries business, and concentrate on the severe social problems we have in THIS country, like anti social behaviour, poor parenting,child abuse, 1 child dies at the hands of a parent or carer EVERY WEEK IN THE UK, which is something of which to feel deeply ashamed, these are figures from the NSPCC, which l worked for on a voluntary basis, ect and save the money we spend fighting other peoples wars for OUR schools, hospitals ect, if we can`t even manage to put our own affairs in order, who the hell are we to tell others how to run theirs.

My oh my you have no idea what you are talking about as soon as I see your comment about the war in Iraq I stopped reading as that summed up your knowledge there & then its afghanistan you silly girl. Im proud of our soldiers and was lovely to see them today and a great crowd showing their support. David crown why don't I believe you when you say you told our troops what you think, you keep on hiding behind a computer screen with basildon lad sad sad little men. Real men & women doing an amazing job stand strong we are all so proud despite what the keyboard warriors say.

My goodness, you ARE working yourself up into a state aren`t you? definately not good for your blood pressure, l`d calm down if l were you.

YOU are the one who sounds like a silly little boy to me! no, l take that back, plenty of children in the uk have a lot more sense than so called " adults" like you, no, l `ll call you immature, because that`s what you sound like.

And you haven`t even got the bottle you coward, to read the whole of my comment ! just as far as the lraq war, yet you have the gall, and the stupidity, to think that you are qualified to make a comment, based on the small amount you have read. ( as well as call David Crown a coward, who " hides behind a computer screen! What the hell do you think YOU are doing then, you stupid little man)

And l am not a liar, it was said on tv, by a politition, that the war WAS unwinnable, just because you didn`t hear it, doesn`t mean it wasn`t said!.

l suggest you grow up, grow a brain, and actually read, slowly, what l, have written, you might learn something, l get my information from live tv, which is by and large, very accurate reporting, and l very rarely read the newspapers!!

And, have you not noticed that the uk is OBSESSED with war?
lf we are not actually fighting in one, we are talking constantly about it, or it`s on tv documentaries, harping back to the 1st and 2nd world wars, a never ending diatribe, no other country l have ever travelled to or lived in is so obsessed with war or talk of war, it `s an unhealthy obsession.

l make no apologies for them, and l stand behind every single word l`ve said, and, at the end of the day your opinion is totally irrelevant to me.

smithy741 wrote:

Almeda11 wrote: Well l certainly wouldn`t turn out to support them!!, and agree with David Crowns views. The fact is that this war and in lraq, is not our war. lf our country was being attacked l would think differently, but it is not, and l don`t think we have any business going in to someone else`s country and telling them how to do things, theirs is a different culture, and you cannot enforce democracy at the point of a gun, it never works,democracy has to come from WITHIN their own country, not enforced from outside. lt will take longer, but it will happen and will be more peaceful. Even the government has said that this war is " unwinnable". Took them long enough to realise that, l could have told them that 10 tears ago, but then l, unlike the government have insight. The only reason they went to war in lraq was for the oil and the fat contracts that materialised afterwards. l never, for 1 second, believed there were any WMD,and there weren`t. Also, look around the world, there are wars everywhere,terrible things happening in Dafur for example, with women and children being burned alive in their houses, but did britain get involved in those, No, for the simple reason that there was no oil. l will never understand the parents of these young men and women who say of their DEAD children, " Oh, l am so proud of my son/daughter, they died doing the job they loved" . WAKE UP! the army doesn`t care about your children, they don`t even give them the correct equipment for the job for heaven`s sake which is a contributing factor in some deaths, they are just pawns of a government that couldn`t care less so why be proud? This country should keep it`s nose out of other countries business, and concentrate on the severe social problems we have in THIS country, like anti social behaviour, poor parenting,child abuse, 1 child dies at the hands of a parent or carer EVERY WEEK IN THE UK, which is something of which to feel deeply ashamed, these are figures from the NSPCC, which l worked for on a voluntary basis, ect and save the money we spend fighting other peoples wars for OUR schools, hospitals ect, if we can`t even manage to put our own affairs in order, who the hell are we to tell others how to run theirs.

And you are a liar our government have never said we can not win this war. Maybe you should get your facts straight first and not believe what you read in the papers & actually get some evidence to back up your crazy comments.

l find it incredible that you cannot see the obvious differences between OUR country being attacked, where we would obviously be in great danger, and deliberately going out into others countries in the name of freedom fighters.

As l said, other peoples/countries wars are nothing to do with us, we would NOT be in the same danger as we would if our country was being attacked.
The uk is obsessed with war --- in a way no other country is, if we`re not actually fighting in our own war, then we`re poking our noses into others` affairs, and constantly on the tv there is a never ending series, documentaries of the last one, or the one before that.
An unhealthy obsession, and l stick by ALL the points l made in my first comment.

l was also making a CONNECTION,,which you obviously didn`t see, or read, between fighting for democracy in a country, by storming in, taking over, killing the enemy and killing lots of innocent people into the bargain, and the fact that we do have terrible social problems in this country, which l`ve already mentioned. lt`s like the pot calling the kettle black, and we should concentrate our efforts into getting our own problems and attitudes right before we dare to lecture other countries on how to run theirs, and it should never be my military force, ONLY if THIS country is being attacked.

l can`t make it any plainer l`m afraid, and everybody thinks differently, due to their own, personal life experiences, and everyone is entitled to their own opinion, it`s really not worth getting wound up or upset about, and to be honest it is totally irrelevant whether you agree with me or not. Be philosophical about it, but killing is never right, or justified, there are always other, better ways

David Crown wrote:
Beautifully put Almeda11.

Thanks for your kind comment David, and glad to see that there are still some sensible, and intelligent people around who KNOW there are always better, and more peaceful ways to solve conflict!