Councillor faces rap over ‘offensive’ e-mail gaffe

First published in News by

A TORY councillor felt he had e-mailed a “jolly good joke” to all his council colleagues – but he now faces disciplinary action over claims it was racist and sexist.

Chris Walker, who represents Eastwood Park ward, has caused quite a storm among his peers over the pictures of naked women with anti-Islamic text.

The e-mail said Islamic men would have to commit suicide if they saw a woman, other than their wife, naked, and that all British women should walk the streets naked on Sunday afternoons to weed out terrorists.

It was accompanied by a number of pictures of naked women, and ended with the words Land of Hope and Glory and a picture of the Union Flag.

Funeral director Mr Walker, who is known in the council for his forthright comments, said: “I sent it in good faith, because it just seemed a jolly good joke to me.

“When it didn’t to others, then I immediately sent out an apology. Looking back on it, I would say it was a joke. I don’t think I would do it again and that‘s the end of the story.”

Southend council leader Nigel Holdcroft has asked the Tory chief whip on the council, Derek Jarvis, to instigate disciplinary proceedings.

He said: “It was totally inappropriate for any member of the Conservative group to have sent out an e-mail of this sort to other councillors.

“As soon as I saw it, I was in contact with Chris Walker to make sure he sent out an apology.”

Opposition leaders on the council were united in their condemnation of the e-mail.

Lib Dem group leader Graham Longley said: “It would appear to be an inappropriate use of council e-mail.”

Independent group leader Martin Terry said: “I think it is disgusting any member of the council should have sent out this type of e-mail to all colleagues.

“It is most sexist and racist, and very unhelpful in the current times.”

Labour group chief David Norman said his colleagues in the Labour group viewed the e-mail with “great concern”.

He added: “I was particularly concerned with the underlying religious discrimination which it contained, and feel this is a matter which should be further investigated by the whole council.”

Comments (40)

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5:12pm Thu 30 Apr 09

Winston Smith says...

How was this racist? Islam is not a race. Would Mr Holdcroft have got his knickers in such a twist had the joke been about Atheists?

As for sexist, for goodness' sake get a sense of humour and stop being so blo0dy po-faced!

The problem with modern Britain is all the political correctness, please don't add to it!
How was this racist? Islam is not a race. Would Mr Holdcroft have got his knickers in such a twist had the joke been about Atheists? As for sexist, for goodness' sake get a sense of humour and stop being so blo0dy po-faced! The problem with modern Britain is all the political correctness, please don't add to it! Winston Smith
  • Score: 0

6:06pm Thu 30 Apr 09

westcliff willi says...

Not a bad idea though, it might just work
Not a bad idea though, it might just work westcliff willi
  • Score: 0

6:45pm Thu 30 Apr 09

LocalBoy says...

He should be disciplined for lack of judgment.

At the end of the day as a joke it isn't funny. For not being able to spot that basic fact he needs sacking.

It is actually a worthless statement designed to engender sniggers and support from those in our society who are prejudiced against Musilms.

It originates from America and everyone knows they don't understand the concept of a "joke" over there.....actually the did elect George W!
He should be disciplined for lack of judgment. At the end of the day as a joke it isn't funny. For not being able to spot that basic fact he needs sacking. It is actually a worthless statement designed to engender sniggers and support from those in our society who are prejudiced against Musilms. It originates from America and everyone knows they don't understand the concept of a "joke" over there.....actually the did elect George W! LocalBoy
  • Score: 0

7:14pm Thu 30 Apr 09

Ivanna Goodhump says...

westcliff willi wrote:
Not a bad idea though, it might just work
God, can you imagine all the heffers that live around Southend walking about in the nude.

It's bad enough seeing them in their 3 sizes too small stretch pants and muffin tops pushing their brahn babies around as it is.

Also, When are these po faced idiots going to learn that Islam is not a race so this cannot be racist.

What a sad little country this has become, riddled with political correctness and accusations of racism used to stifle much needed debate.



[quote][p][bold]westcliff willi[/bold] wrote: Not a bad idea though, it might just work[/p][/quote]God, can you imagine all the heffers that live around Southend walking about in the nude. It's bad enough seeing them in their 3 sizes too small stretch pants and muffin tops pushing their brahn babies around as it is. Also, When are these po faced idiots going to learn that Islam is not a race so this cannot be racist. What a sad little country this has become, riddled with political correctness and accusations of racism used to stifle much needed debate. Ivanna Goodhump
  • Score: 0

8:19pm Thu 30 Apr 09

Winston Smith says...

LocalBoy wrote:
He should be disciplined for lack of judgment.

At the end of the day as a joke it isn't funny. For not being able to spot that basic fact he needs sacking.

It is actually a worthless statement designed to engender sniggers and support from those in our society who are prejudiced against Musilms.

It originates from America and everyone knows they don't understand the concept of a "joke" over there.....actually the did elect George W!
What the US does have is free speech, unlike Britain where we have politically correct Thought Police waiting to prosecute anyone who does not share the government's view of how we should think.

See the article at the following link to get an idea of just how totalitarian Britain has become:

http://www.theaustra
lian.news.com.au/sto
ry/0,25197,25361297-
21147,00.html
[quote][p][bold]LocalBoy[/bold] wrote: He should be disciplined for lack of judgment. At the end of the day as a joke it isn't funny. For not being able to spot that basic fact he needs sacking. It is actually a worthless statement designed to engender sniggers and support from those in our society who are prejudiced against Musilms. It originates from America and everyone knows they don't understand the concept of a "joke" over there.....actually the did elect George W![/p][/quote]What the US does have is free speech, unlike Britain where we have politically correct Thought Police waiting to prosecute anyone who does not share the government's view of how we should think. See the article at the following link to get an idea of just how totalitarian Britain has become: http://www.theaustra lian.news.com.au/sto ry/0,25197,25361297- 21147,00.html Winston Smith
  • Score: 0

9:22pm Thu 30 Apr 09

Jane D says...

All of the politicians I have ever met, of any party, have been pretty much devoid of any sense of humour, so it is refreshing to find one who does have one. If the recipients of the e-mail didn't find the joke funny, they could always hit the "delete" button. More to the point though, is, if this e-mail was sent using Council facilities, then Cllr Walker should be ticked off for that. Why is he not spending time representing his constituents? If the e-mail was sent from a private address, there is no need for any disciplinary action.
All of the politicians I have ever met, of any party, have been pretty much devoid of any sense of humour, so it is refreshing to find one who does have one. If the recipients of the e-mail didn't find the joke funny, they could always hit the "delete" button. More to the point though, is, if this e-mail was sent using Council facilities, then Cllr Walker should be ticked off for that. Why is he not spending time representing his constituents? If the e-mail was sent from a private address, there is no need for any disciplinary action. Jane D
  • Score: 0

9:43pm Thu 30 Apr 09

siddymint says...

A councillor with a sense of humour and it was clearly sent from a private source as the council has filters to stop jokes doesn't it.
Well I gusess they will call in consultants consume lots of tea and biscuits to discuss it . or is it a set up to discrace Councillor walker so he can't vote on the airport
A councillor with a sense of humour and it was clearly sent from a private source as the council has filters to stop jokes doesn't it. Well I gusess they will call in consultants consume lots of tea and biscuits to discuss it . or is it a set up to discrace Councillor walker so he can't vote on the airport siddymint
  • Score: 0

11:14pm Thu 30 Apr 09

southendreb says...

Where is there sense of humour gone.
Where is there sense of humour gone. southendreb
  • Score: 0

8:13am Fri 1 May 09

SARFENDMAN says...

Par for the course. Poor joke, poor judgement. I suppose being a Funeral Director he thought it DEAD funny...ha! One to be buried without trace...joke that is.
Par for the course. Poor joke, poor judgement. I suppose being a Funeral Director he thought it DEAD funny...ha! One to be buried without trace...joke that is. SARFENDMAN
  • Score: 0

8:33am Fri 1 May 09

Peter Pantsless says...

If i caught or was caught distributing offensive material using work resources during work time the end result would be more than just a slap on the wrist.

Bet your bottom dollar though, that a tory whip investigating a tory councillor will end up as just that!
If i caught or was caught distributing offensive material using work resources during work time the end result would be more than just a slap on the wrist. Bet your bottom dollar though, that a tory whip investigating a tory councillor will end up as just that! Peter Pantsless
  • Score: 0

9:33am Fri 1 May 09

j-w says...

get real, everyone sends jokes around on email at work or home. and most post on here too, just like me! sometimes you just have to be selective as to which colleagues you send which jokes and this is the rule that this man didn't stick to.
get real, everyone sends jokes around on email at work or home. and most post on here too, just like me! sometimes you just have to be selective as to which colleagues you send which jokes and this is the rule that this man didn't stick to. j-w
  • Score: 0

11:07am Fri 1 May 09

Julian Ware-Lane says...

My commentary here: http://warelane.word
press.com/2009/05/01
/in-poor-judgement-c
ouncillor-sends-a-ba
d-taste-email/
My commentary here: http://warelane.word press.com/2009/05/01 /in-poor-judgement-c ouncillor-sends-a-ba d-taste-email/ Julian Ware-Lane
  • Score: 0

11:53am Fri 1 May 09

Peter Pantsless says...

Julian, agree with your 'musings' 100 percent.

Just goes to show how much the tories are still living in a silver-spooned bubble of upper class buffoonism!

Carol Thatcher and her Gollywog affair is another prime example.
Julian, agree with your 'musings' 100 percent. Just goes to show how much the tories are still living in a silver-spooned bubble of upper class buffoonism! Carol Thatcher and her Gollywog affair is another prime example. Peter Pantsless
  • Score: 0

1:01pm Fri 1 May 09

Mary Lou says...

This was offensive and shows poor judgement. It is like something out of a time warp. However, if this had been a lowly council worker I'm sure they would have been subject of the most severe discipline procedures.

Something to remember at the next election.
This was offensive and shows poor judgement. It is like something out of a time warp. However, if this had been a lowly council worker I'm sure they would have been subject of the most severe discipline procedures. Something to remember at the next election. Mary Lou
  • Score: 0

2:58pm Fri 1 May 09

andy:) says...

Winston Smith wrote:
How was this racist? Islam is not a race. Would Mr Holdcroft have got his knickers in such a twist had the joke been about Atheists? As for sexist, for goodness' sake get a sense of humour and stop being so blo0dy po-faced! The problem with modern Britain is all the political correctness, please don't add to it!
As a responsible adult i wouldnt dare send anything like this to work colleagues, its irrelevant wether its deemed racistnor sexist its just not appriopiate to send at work, some places would give you the boot for something like this, so he should deem himself lucky, if he really felt the need to send this then surely it should be done from his home on his home computer NOT during work hours.
[quote][p][bold]Winston Smith[/bold] wrote: How was this racist? Islam is not a race. Would Mr Holdcroft have got his knickers in such a twist had the joke been about Atheists? As for sexist, for goodness' sake get a sense of humour and stop being so blo0dy po-faced! The problem with modern Britain is all the political correctness, please don't add to it![/p][/quote]As a responsible adult i wouldnt dare send anything like this to work colleagues, its irrelevant wether its deemed racistnor sexist its just not appriopiate to send at work, some places would give you the boot for something like this, so he should deem himself lucky, if he really felt the need to send this then surely it should be done from his home on his home computer NOT during work hours. andy:)
  • Score: 0

5:06pm Fri 1 May 09

leighbloke says...

Surely there is an internet policy to follow and almost certainly one that any councillor has to sign having access to confidential information.If that is the case then the disciplinary action that follows surely is clear.
Why are officers of the council not imposing sanctions?It seems odd that a colleauge from the same polital party is involved. surely its a breach of standards not just a party political matter?
Surely there is an internet policy to follow and almost certainly one that any councillor has to sign having access to confidential information.If that is the case then the disciplinary action that follows surely is clear. Why are officers of the council not imposing sanctions?It seems odd that a colleauge from the same polital party is involved. surely its a breach of standards not just a party political matter? leighbloke
  • Score: 0

5:10pm Sat 2 May 09

EnglishPatriot says...

Every conceivable nationality has been the butt of so called racist jokes at some time or another. The biggest joke of all is how the politically correct brigade continuously persecute the English, telling them they can't have hot cross buns, fly the St George cross or have Christmas trees. I find that deeply offensive.

I also find it deeply offensive that these selfsame morons constantly carp about how racist the English are. As a nation, we are the most tolerant in the world.

Meanwhile we suffer being denied our own parliament whilst footing the bill for everybody else's.

No sorry, to hell with the politically correct brigade. I've seen far worse jokes than this being circulated by text - maybe because it's the last chance saloon of free speech in this country before these loonies start checking everybody's text and email - that is if they are not doing already.

No, people in this country are waking up - and it's long overdue - to the fact that pc has gone too far.

The worm is turning and it will all get worse before it gets better.

So I say to mealy-mouthed left wing loonies who whinge about everything from the most innocuous and unnecessary health and safety issues, to their own twisted idea of what racism actually is, to go and boil your heads.
Every conceivable nationality has been the butt of so called racist jokes at some time or another. The biggest joke of all is how the politically correct brigade continuously persecute the English, telling them they can't have hot cross buns, fly the St George cross or have Christmas trees. I find that deeply offensive. I also find it deeply offensive that these selfsame morons constantly carp about how racist the English are. As a nation, we are the most tolerant in the world. Meanwhile we suffer being denied our own parliament whilst footing the bill for everybody else's. No sorry, to hell with the politically correct brigade. I've seen far worse jokes than this being circulated by text - maybe because it's the last chance saloon of free speech in this country before these loonies start checking everybody's text and email - that is if they are not doing already. No, people in this country are waking up - and it's long overdue - to the fact that pc has gone too far. The worm is turning and it will all get worse before it gets better. So I say to mealy-mouthed left wing loonies who whinge about everything from the most innocuous and unnecessary health and safety issues, to their own twisted idea of what racism actually is, to go and boil your heads. EnglishPatriot
  • Score: 0

5:17pm Sat 2 May 09

EnglishPatriot says...

English Patriot's other half writes.... To the PC brigade who constantly want England to apologise for irs past - as well as its sense of humour - start moaning at the Irish for massacring the native Americans, the Romans and the Greeks for their empires, the Dutch, Portuguese, Spanish for their colonies, the Germans, the Japanese for their parts in the war, the New Zealanders and the Aussies for persecuting Maoris and Aborigines but no, the PC traitors of this country find fault with the slightest thing English, including its sense of humour.

There's an Englishman, Irishman, Scotsman.... ha ha ha!!

Get a life, get a grip and go to hell!
English Patriot's other half writes.... To the PC brigade who constantly want England to apologise for irs past - as well as its sense of humour - start moaning at the Irish for massacring the native Americans, the Romans and the Greeks for their empires, the Dutch, Portuguese, Spanish for their colonies, the Germans, the Japanese for their parts in the war, the New Zealanders and the Aussies for persecuting Maoris and Aborigines but no, the PC traitors of this country find fault with the slightest thing English, including its sense of humour. There's an Englishman, Irishman, Scotsman.... ha ha ha!! Get a life, get a grip and go to hell! EnglishPatriot
  • Score: 0

5:34pm Sat 2 May 09

EnglishPatriot says...

follow up from above posting from EP's other half....
during world war II the African Americans who were stationed in England loved the English sense of humour and the lack of racism they had to deal with in the good old US of A.

The fact that the Englishman, Irishman and Scotsman jokes are so frowned upon by the Scots and the Welsh and not the Irish proves a massive lack of humour, which is not surprising as the most bigoted countries in the UK are Scotland and Wales as racist attacks and verbal assaults on English people living in Wales and Scotland highlighted in the press have proved.

Everyone's sense of humour is different, what one man finds crude, another will find funny. As the old saying goes, if you don't like it, no-one's forcing you to listen or stay in my beloved England, which has given the world more than any other nation.
follow up from above posting from EP's other half.... during world war II the African Americans who were stationed in England loved the English sense of humour and the lack of racism they had to deal with in the good old US of A. The fact that the Englishman, Irishman and Scotsman jokes are so frowned upon by the Scots and the Welsh and not the Irish proves a massive lack of humour, which is not surprising as the most bigoted countries in the UK are Scotland and Wales as racist attacks and verbal assaults on English people living in Wales and Scotland highlighted in the press have proved. Everyone's sense of humour is different, what one man finds crude, another will find funny. As the old saying goes, if you don't like it, no-one's forcing you to listen or stay in my beloved England, which has given the world more than any other nation. EnglishPatriot
  • Score: 0

11:34pm Sat 2 May 09

Winston Smith says...

Many of the posts here demonstrate just how deeply ingrained the pc thought police have got their agenda.

People too scared to tell a joke or say a word some Nu-Liebour commissar has designated 'wrong'. Says who? Words are just words. Without the freedom to say them then we have no freedom of speech.

What was so sickening about the Carol Thatcher incident was she made a perfectly innocent comment, in private, in a private conversation, and some snivelling little pc weasel then went running and reported her.
And don't go thinking I'm a Thatcher fan, I'm not. I despise her mother for what she did to British industry and will throw a party the day she dies, but I will support ANYONE'S right to freedom of speech without fear of a spineless sneak running to the thought police.

I remember GOLLIWOGS on jam jars. As a child I had a toy GOLLIWOG. I probably still have that toy GOLLIWOG packed away in the attic somewhere.

You pc thought police weasels, sneaks and informers can go to hell. I will say whatever words I d@mn well please, because I believe in freedom of speech. And the more you complain the more I will use them.

I wipe my @rse on your Nu-Liebour Dictionary of Nu-Speak.
Many of the posts here demonstrate just how deeply ingrained the pc thought police have got their agenda. People too scared to tell a joke or say a word some Nu-Liebour commissar has designated 'wrong'. Says who? Words are just words. Without the freedom to say them then we have no freedom of speech. What was so sickening about the Carol Thatcher incident was she made a perfectly innocent comment, in private, in a private conversation, and some snivelling little pc weasel then went running and reported her. And don't go thinking I'm a Thatcher fan, I'm not. I despise her mother for what she did to British industry and will throw a party the day she dies, but I will support ANYONE'S right to freedom of speech without fear of a spineless sneak running to the thought police. I remember GOLLIWOGS on jam jars. As a child I had a toy GOLLIWOG. I probably still have that toy GOLLIWOG packed away in the attic somewhere. You pc thought police weasels, sneaks and informers can go to hell. I will say whatever words I d@mn well please, because I believe in freedom of speech. And the more you complain the more I will use them. I wipe my @rse on your Nu-Liebour Dictionary of Nu-Speak. Winston Smith
  • Score: 0

12:04am Sun 3 May 09

EnglishPatriot says...

What was it Voltaire was supposed to have said? 'I may not agree with what you say but I will defend to the death your right to say it.'

As for golliwogs, I am seriously considering a campaign to get them reinstated on the Robertson's jars.

Just to prove a point.

What is a golliwog anyway? An innocuous, friendly little toy for god's sake.

And I have yet to meet a black person who finds it offensive.

That's because it's not black people who find them offensive. It's the mewling, bellyaching pc moronocracy.
What was it Voltaire was supposed to have said? 'I may not agree with what you say but I will defend to the death your right to say it.' As for golliwogs, I am seriously considering a campaign to get them reinstated on the Robertson's jars. Just to prove a point. What is a golliwog anyway? An innocuous, friendly little toy for god's sake. And I have yet to meet a black person who finds it offensive. That's because it's not black people who find them offensive. It's the mewling, bellyaching pc moronocracy. EnglishPatriot
  • Score: 0

10:53am Sun 3 May 09

LocalBoy says...

As per usual quality posts from those who will desperately link anything they can to "the PC brigade" or "an attack on our English heritage and freedom of speech"

The point is that this e-mail sent by a representative of our community, is not funny, it has no merit and is not a joke.

A joke is supposed to "excite laughter" does this? No it doesn't.

The best it does is give a bunch of Neanderthals the opportunity to grunt at some more anti-muslim rhetoric.

Don't even attempt to misappropriate the English language any further. This e-mail is not a joke and it is not funny.
As per usual quality posts from those who will desperately link anything they can to "the PC brigade" or "an attack on our English heritage and freedom of speech" The point is that this e-mail sent by a representative of our community, is not funny, it has no merit and is not a joke. A joke is supposed to "excite laughter" does this? No it doesn't. The best it does is give a bunch of Neanderthals the opportunity to grunt at some more anti-muslim rhetoric. Don't even attempt to misappropriate the English language any further. This e-mail is not a joke and it is not funny. LocalBoy
  • Score: 0

1:57pm Sun 3 May 09

Winston Smith says...

... and as usual snivelling whines of 'neanderthal' from those who spend their entire miserable lives going out of their way to find the tiniest little thing to be 'offended' by.

And yes, it did incite laughter. All the more so because of the howls of righteous indignation it is generating from all the brainwashed pc Nu-liebour weasels that populate this board.
... and as usual snivelling whines of 'neanderthal' from those who spend their entire miserable lives going out of their way to find the tiniest little thing to be 'offended' by. And yes, it did incite laughter. All the more so because of the howls of righteous indignation it is generating from all the brainwashed pc Nu-liebour weasels that populate this board. Winston Smith
  • Score: 0

9:08am Mon 4 May 09

LocalBoy says...

Winston Smith wrote:
... and as usual snivelling whines of 'neanderthal' from those who spend their entire miserable lives going out of their way to find the tiniest little thing to be 'offended' by.

And yes, it did incite laughter. All the more so because of the howls of righteous indignation it is generating from all the brainwashed pc Nu-liebour weasels that populate this board.
The e-mail doesn't offend me it just isn't a joke and isn't funny, get yourself a dictionary.

And thanks for confirming all that I wrote in my first paragraph.

You are so extreme in your opinions that every one is to the left of where you stand Winnie!
[quote][p][bold]Winston Smith[/bold] wrote: ... and as usual snivelling whines of 'neanderthal' from those who spend their entire miserable lives going out of their way to find the tiniest little thing to be 'offended' by. And yes, it did incite laughter. All the more so because of the howls of righteous indignation it is generating from all the brainwashed pc Nu-liebour weasels that populate this board.[/p][/quote]The e-mail doesn't offend me it just isn't a joke and isn't funny, get yourself a dictionary. And thanks for confirming all that I wrote in my first paragraph. You are so extreme in your opinions that every one is to the left of where you stand Winnie! LocalBoy
  • Score: 0

9:27am Mon 4 May 09

Winston Smith says...

There is nothing extreme in objecting to people trying to dictate to me what I should think and say.

There is nothing extreme in speaking in favour of freedom of speech.

There is nothing extreme in objecting to the creeping totalitarianism in England you so readily accept.

You, on the other hand, would see the English shackled. You would see us living in a totalitarian state where all thought is controlled. Where speaking freely is outlawed. Where uniformity is the rule and anything else is illegal. Where the minority is more important than the majority.

I doubt you are even British, let alone English.
There is nothing extreme in objecting to people trying to dictate to me what I should think and say. There is nothing extreme in speaking in favour of freedom of speech. There is nothing extreme in objecting to the creeping totalitarianism in England you so readily accept. You, on the other hand, would see the English shackled. You would see us living in a totalitarian state where all thought is controlled. Where speaking freely is outlawed. Where uniformity is the rule and anything else is illegal. Where the minority is more important than the majority. I doubt you are even British, let alone English. Winston Smith
  • Score: 0

5:37pm Mon 4 May 09

LocalBoy says...

That sums up your attitude and the attitude of people like you Winnie.

You're correct I'm only English from 1066 when my ancestors came over with the French. Well that's one half. The other half is 50% Cornish so I have a real problem don't I?

But there again I was born in the North where the bulk of the ancestry is Norse and Dane, and I'm confident they will have intermingled with the French and Celts at some stage. Oh the problems, the problems.

The trouble with people like you is you refuse to accept we are a mongrel nation, but the bad news is the flag of St George is as much my flag as it is your's. And despite the fact he wasn't English I'm not prepared to sit back and let people like you steal my birthright.

I'm exerting my freedom of speech by stating that I do not consider this e-mail to be funny or a joke. You disagree with me but instead of stating what you find funny you rant on about the rights of the English, the PC brigade and freedom of speech.

The facts are this was not funny or humorous and you have not justified in any of your posts why it is.

All you have done is gone on an extreme quasi political rant.

Like many you basically want the right to do or say whatever you like.

Well bad news Winnie the English/British/civi
lised way is about rights and responsibilities. It would be interesting to understand what you think your responsibilities are or do you think we live in a totally lassez-faire society?
That sums up your attitude and the attitude of people like you Winnie. You're correct I'm only English from 1066 when my ancestors came over with the French. Well that's one half. The other half is 50% Cornish so I have a real problem don't I? But there again I was born in the North where the bulk of the ancestry is Norse and Dane, and I'm confident they will have intermingled with the French and Celts at some stage. Oh the problems, the problems. The trouble with people like you is you refuse to accept we are a mongrel nation, but the bad news is the flag of St George is as much my flag as it is your's. And despite the fact he wasn't English I'm not prepared to sit back and let people like you steal my birthright. I'm exerting my freedom of speech by stating that I do not consider this e-mail to be funny or a joke. You disagree with me but instead of stating what you find funny you rant on about the rights of the English, the PC brigade and freedom of speech. The facts are this was not funny or humorous and you have not justified in any of your posts why it is. All you have done is gone on an extreme quasi political rant. Like many you basically want the right to do or say whatever you like. Well bad news Winnie the English/British/civi lised way is about rights and responsibilities. It would be interesting to understand what you think your responsibilities are or do you think we live in a totally lassez-faire society? LocalBoy
  • Score: 0

6:01pm Mon 4 May 09

Winston Smith says...

"Like many you basically want the right to do or say whatever you like. "

That is where you are wrong. I believe I should be able to do as I please, within the law, free from government interference.

I believe I should be able to think and say whatever I d@mn well please, as NO-ONE has the right to stop me.

As for birthrights my family name traces back to pre-Roman times. I should have known it would be a Frenchman telling me what I can and cannot say in my own country.

As fpr 'mongrel nation' would you say that to a Scotsman or Welshman? Why do you politically correct weasels only attack the English? Is it because for centuries we have said nothing? Well not anymore:


The Secret People

Smile at us, pay us, pass us;
but do not quite forget,
For we are the people of England,
that never has spoken yet.
There is many a fat farmer that drinks less cheerfully,
There is many a free French peasant who is richer and sadder than we.
There are no folk in the whole world so helpless or so wise.
There is hunger in our bellies, there is laughter in our eyes;
You laugh at us and love us, both mugs and eyes are wet:
Only you do not know us. For we have not spoken yet.

The fine French kings came over in a flutter of flags and dames.
We liked their smiles and battles, but we never could say their names.
The blood ran red to Bosworth and the high French lords went down;
There was naught but a naked people under a naked crown.
And the eyes of the King's Servants turned terribly every way,
And the gold of the King's Servants rose higher every day.
They burnt the homes of the shaven men, that had been quaint and kind,
Till there was no bed in a monk's house, nor food that man could find.
The inns of God where no man paid, that were the wall of the weak,
The King's Servants ate them all. And still we did not speak.

And the face of the King's Servants grew greater than the King:
He tricked them, and they trapped him, and stood round him in a ring.
The new grave lords closed round him, that had eaten the abbey's fruits,
And the men of the new religion, with their Bibles in their boots,
We saw their shoulders moving, to menace or discuss,
And some were pure and some were vile; but none took heed of us.
We saw the King as they killed him, and his face was proud and pale;
And a few men talked of freedom, while England talked of ale.

A war that we understood not came over the world and woke
Americans, Frenchmen, Irish; but we knew not the things they spoke.
They talked about rights and nature and peace and the people's reign:
And the squires, our masters, bade us fight; and never scorned us again.
Weak if we be for ever, could none condemn us then;
Men called us serfs and drudges; men knew that we were men.
In foam and flame at Trafalgar, on Albuera plains,
We did and died like lions, to keep ourselves in chains,
We lay in living ruins; firing and fearing not
The strange fierce face of the Frenchman who knew for what he fought,
And the man who seemed to be more than man we strained against and broke;
And we broke our own rights with him. And still we never spoke.

Our path of glory ended; we never heard guns again.
But the squire seemed struck in the saddle; he was foolish, as if in pain.
He leaned on a staggering lawyer, he clutched a cringing Jew,
He was stricken; it may be, after all, he was stricken at Waterloo.
Or perhaps the shades of the shaven men, whose spoil is in his house,
Come back in shining shapes at last to spoil his last carouse:
We only know the last sad squires ride slowly towards the sea,
And a new people takes the land: and still it is not we.

They have given us into the hands of the new unhappy lords,
Lords without anger and honour, who dare not carry their swords.
They fight by shuffling papers; they have bright dead alien eyes;
They look at our labour and laughter as a tired man looks at flies.
And the load of their loveless pity is worse than the ancient wrongs,
Their doors are shut in the evenings; and they know no songs.

We hear men speaking for us of new laws strong and sweet,
Yet is there no man speaketh as we speak in the street.
It may be we shall rise the last as Frenchmen rose the first,
Our wrath come after Russia's wrath and our wrath be the worst.
It may be we are meant to mark with our riot and our rest
God's scorn for all men governing. It may be beer is best.
But we are the people of England; and we have not spoken yet.
Smile at us, pay us, pass us. But do not quite forget.

G.K. CHESTERTON

"Like many you basically want the right to do or say whatever you like. " That is where you are wrong. I believe I should be able to do as I please, within the law, free from government interference. I believe I should be able to think and say whatever I d@mn well please, as NO-ONE has the right to stop me. As for birthrights my family name traces back to pre-Roman times. I should have known it would be a Frenchman telling me what I can and cannot say in my own country. As fpr 'mongrel nation' would you say that to a Scotsman or Welshman? Why do you politically correct weasels only attack the English? Is it because for centuries we have said nothing? Well not anymore: The Secret People Smile at us, pay us, pass us; but do not quite forget, For we are the people of England, that never has spoken yet. There is many a fat farmer that drinks less cheerfully, There is many a free French peasant who is richer and sadder than we. There are no folk in the whole world so helpless or so wise. There is hunger in our bellies, there is laughter in our eyes; You laugh at us and love us, both mugs and eyes are wet: Only you do not know us. For we have not spoken yet. The fine French kings came over in a flutter of flags and dames. We liked their smiles and battles, but we never could say their names. The blood ran red to Bosworth and the high French lords went down; There was naught but a naked people under a naked crown. And the eyes of the King's Servants turned terribly every way, And the gold of the King's Servants rose higher every day. They burnt the homes of the shaven men, that had been quaint and kind, Till there was no bed in a monk's house, nor food that man could find. The inns of God where no man paid, that were the wall of the weak, The King's Servants ate them all. And still we did not speak. And the face of the King's Servants grew greater than the King: He tricked them, and they trapped him, and stood round him in a ring. The new grave lords closed round him, that had eaten the abbey's fruits, And the men of the new religion, with their Bibles in their boots, We saw their shoulders moving, to menace or discuss, And some were pure and some were vile; but none took heed of us. We saw the King as they killed him, and his face was proud and pale; And a few men talked of freedom, while England talked of ale. A war that we understood not came over the world and woke Americans, Frenchmen, Irish; but we knew not the things they spoke. They talked about rights and nature and peace and the people's reign: And the squires, our masters, bade us fight; and never scorned us again. Weak if we be for ever, could none condemn us then; Men called us serfs and drudges; men knew that we were men. In foam and flame at Trafalgar, on Albuera plains, We did and died like lions, to keep ourselves in chains, We lay in living ruins; firing and fearing not The strange fierce face of the Frenchman who knew for what he fought, And the man who seemed to be more than man we strained against and broke; And we broke our own rights with him. And still we never spoke. Our path of glory ended; we never heard guns again. But the squire seemed struck in the saddle; he was foolish, as if in pain. He leaned on a staggering lawyer, he clutched a cringing Jew, He was stricken; it may be, after all, he was stricken at Waterloo. Or perhaps the shades of the shaven men, whose spoil is in his house, Come back in shining shapes at last to spoil his last carouse: We only know the last sad squires ride slowly towards the sea, And a new people takes the land: and still it is not we. They have given us into the hands of the new unhappy lords, Lords without anger and honour, who dare not carry their swords. They fight by shuffling papers; they have bright dead alien eyes; They look at our labour and laughter as a tired man looks at flies. And the load of their loveless pity is worse than the ancient wrongs, Their doors are shut in the evenings; and they know no songs. We hear men speaking for us of new laws strong and sweet, Yet is there no man speaketh as we speak in the street. It may be we shall rise the last as Frenchmen rose the first, Our wrath come after Russia's wrath and our wrath be the worst. It may be we are meant to mark with our riot and our rest God's scorn for all men governing. It may be beer is best. But we are the people of England; and we have not spoken yet. Smile at us, pay us, pass us. But do not quite forget. G.K. CHESTERTON Winston Smith
  • Score: 0

6:24pm Mon 4 May 09

LocalBoy says...

I take it all back Winston. You clearly need professional help. Good luck with your illness.
I take it all back Winston. You clearly need professional help. Good luck with your illness. LocalBoy
  • Score: 0

7:38pm Mon 4 May 09

Winston Smith says...

Patriotism is not an illness. You obviously do not recognise G K Chesterton's poem. Not surprising really, the politically correct rarely know anything of the culture and heritage of the country they live in.
Patriotism is not an illness. You obviously do not recognise G K Chesterton's poem. Not surprising really, the politically correct rarely know anything of the culture and heritage of the country they live in. Winston Smith
  • Score: 0

10:20am Tue 5 May 09

LocalBoy says...

Winston Smith wrote:
Patriotism is not an illness. You obviously do not recognise G K Chesterton's poem. Not surprising really, the politically correct rarely know anything of the culture and heritage of the country they live in.
Obsessive hated is now considered by many professionals to be an illness.

Patriotism is not an illness.

You have still not explained what is funny in the e-mail that was sent.

If you are struggling to see the humour then that is probably because there is none there.

Unfortunately your obsessive hatred of anything you believe to be "PC" has prevented you from seeing that this e-mail is not funny and that is the issue.

You are the antithesis of the PC brigade; but just like them you are as inflexible in your judgments as to what is right and what is wrong.

You and your like are as dangerous to my freedoms and rights as the extreme left are. You just dress things up differently.
[quote][p][bold]Winston Smith[/bold] wrote: Patriotism is not an illness. You obviously do not recognise G K Chesterton's poem. Not surprising really, the politically correct rarely know anything of the culture and heritage of the country they live in.[/p][/quote]Obsessive hated is now considered by many professionals to be an illness. Patriotism is not an illness. You have still not explained what is funny in the e-mail that was sent. If you are struggling to see the humour then that is probably because there is none there. Unfortunately your obsessive hatred of anything you believe to be "PC" has prevented you from seeing that this e-mail is not funny and that is the issue. You are the antithesis of the PC brigade; but just like them you are as inflexible in your judgments as to what is right and what is wrong. You and your like are as dangerous to my freedoms and rights as the extreme left are. You just dress things up differently. LocalBoy
  • Score: 0

12:43pm Tue 5 May 09

Winston Smith says...

Please show where I have expressed any 'hatred'.

I object to being told what to think and say... that is not hatred.

I object to government interfering in how I live my life... that is not hatred.

I object to the totalitarianism that is taking over our country... that is not hatred.

I have no problem with foreigners living in my country, so long as they work and contribute. I do object to our government putting the wants of foreigners before those of the indiginous people. I object to the policy of 'positive discrimination', there is no such thing, discrimination is discrimination.

It looks to me that you are the only person here expressing hatred. Hatred for your own country, hatred for the English.

You sympathise with a Nu-Liebour government that hates England and the English, a government which denies us the same rights and freedoms enjoyed by Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. A Nu-Liebour government that is going to be destroyed in the next general election, and good riddance.
Please show where I have expressed any 'hatred'. I object to being told what to think and say... that is not hatred. I object to government interfering in how I live my life... that is not hatred. I object to the totalitarianism that is taking over our country... that is not hatred. I have no problem with foreigners living in my country, so long as they work and contribute. I do object to our government putting the wants of foreigners before those of the indiginous people. I object to the policy of 'positive discrimination', there is no such thing, discrimination is discrimination. It looks to me that you are the only person here expressing hatred. Hatred for your own country, hatred for the English. You sympathise with a Nu-Liebour government that hates England and the English, a government which denies us the same rights and freedoms enjoyed by Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. A Nu-Liebour government that is going to be destroyed in the next general election, and good riddance. Winston Smith
  • Score: 0

6:00pm Tue 5 May 09

LocalBoy says...

As per all of your posts Winston you are making up the story as you along.

I have asked you to explain what is funny about that e-mail. Tell me what is funny about it and I might agree with you but until you address the core issue all your blustering and bluff about "PC" and "Patriotism" is just in irrelevancy.

You have totally ignored this question but instead focus on that which you hate and that is anything that you believe is PC or "Nu-Lebour".

Really it is quite pathetic to read.

You don't know my political sympathies so don't attribute a support of Labour to me.

You don't know my views of how I feel as an English person. So don't tell me that I hate my country.

All that you know is that I have had the temerity to ask you to justify your posts about this article, you don't like that fact and instead have splurged a load of extreme garbage.

I'm afraid if you are a protagonist for an "English" Parliament you really must brush up on your art of persuasion; particularly focusing on the issues not the flannel!
As per all of your posts Winston you are making up the story as you along. I have asked you to explain what is funny about that e-mail. Tell me what is funny about it and I might agree with you but until you address the core issue all your blustering and bluff about "PC" and "Patriotism" is just in irrelevancy. You have totally ignored this question but instead focus on that which you hate and that is anything that you believe is PC or "Nu-Lebour". Really it is quite pathetic to read. You don't know my political sympathies so don't attribute a support of Labour to me. You don't know my views of how I feel as an English person. So don't tell me that I hate my country. All that you know is that I have had the temerity to ask you to justify your posts about this article, you don't like that fact and instead have splurged a load of extreme garbage. I'm afraid if you are a protagonist for an "English" Parliament you really must brush up on your art of persuasion; particularly focusing on the issues not the flannel! LocalBoy
  • Score: 0

9:46pm Tue 5 May 09

Winston Smith says...

It is not an irrelevancy at all.

What is relevant is you telling others that they should not find this joke funny.

You are dictating what others should and should not laugh at, what they should and should not think is funny.

I say it is not your place, or the Nu-Liebour government's place, to dictate anyone's thoughts. But you cannot see that becaue you have swallowed their pc 'thought crime' agenda hook, line and sinker.
It is not an irrelevancy at all. What is relevant is you telling others that they should not find this joke funny. You are dictating what others should and should not laugh at, what they should and should not think is funny. I say it is not your place, or the Nu-Liebour government's place, to dictate anyone's thoughts. But you cannot see that becaue you have swallowed their pc 'thought crime' agenda hook, line and sinker. Winston Smith
  • Score: 0

10:42am Wed 6 May 09

LocalBoy says...

"I believe I should be able to do as I please, within the law, free from government interference."

Hi Winston, me again. Please see your quote above. A bit of a contradiction really as the Government proposes and makes many of the laws.

Let me explain the reason that I believe you are unable to explain what is funny about that e-mail.

There are laws in this country that are designed to discourage religious hatred.

This crux of this so called joke is based on religious hatred simple as that. Religious hatred is not funny and inciting religious hatred is against the law.

What people like you really want is the right to abide by the law as long as the law suits you. Tell me what laws do you think are okay?

Secondary to that is your desire to bang the drum about English rights and the PC brigade. You will grab every spurious opportunity you have to do this. Your postings on this particular article are a prime example.
"I believe I should be able to do as I please, within the law, free from government interference." Hi Winston, me again. Please see your quote above. A bit of a contradiction really as the Government proposes and makes many of the laws. Let me explain the reason that I believe you are unable to explain what is funny about that e-mail. There are laws in this country that are designed to discourage religious hatred. This crux of this so called joke is based on religious hatred simple as that. Religious hatred is not funny and inciting religious hatred is against the law. What people like you really want is the right to abide by the law as long as the law suits you. Tell me what laws do you think are okay? Secondary to that is your desire to bang the drum about English rights and the PC brigade. You will grab every spurious opportunity you have to do this. Your postings on this particular article are a prime example. LocalBoy
  • Score: 0

11:37am Wed 6 May 09

Winston Smith says...

"The e-mail said Islamic men would have to commit suicide if they saw a woman, other than their wife, naked, and that all British women should walk the streets naked on Sunday afternoons to weed out terrorists."


Not offensive at all, and certainly does not 'incite hatred'. If anything it is observational, and yes it is funny because it expresses a humorous, farcical way to deal with terrorism.

Your fanatical political correctness is showing even more now. Perhaps people like me who prefer free speech should be locked up in gulags? Sent off to 'thought correction' centres?

I grew up hearing jokes about Catholics, Protestants, Jews, Muslims, Irish people, Welsh people, Scottish people, English people, French people, German people, American people, Spanish people. I frequently spend time living in Wales and often hear 'English' jokes. I find no offence and do not feel any hatred.

It is only the politically correct, like you 'localboy', with your sick perverted view of the world, who think humour is equal to hatred. You go out of your way to find 'offence' where there is none. How many muslims have complained about this? From the story it wouyld appear that precisely NO muslims have complained. They are all probably laughing their pants off at a bunch of politically correct idiots making a mountain out of a molehill.


(interestingly the security word for this post is 'hate-lack')
"The e-mail said Islamic men would have to commit suicide if they saw a woman, other than their wife, naked, and that all British women should walk the streets naked on Sunday afternoons to weed out terrorists." Not offensive at all, and certainly does not 'incite hatred'. If anything it is observational, and yes it is funny because it expresses a humorous, farcical way to deal with terrorism. Your fanatical political correctness is showing even more now. Perhaps people like me who prefer free speech should be locked up in gulags? Sent off to 'thought correction' centres? I grew up hearing jokes about Catholics, Protestants, Jews, Muslims, Irish people, Welsh people, Scottish people, English people, French people, German people, American people, Spanish people. I frequently spend time living in Wales and often hear 'English' jokes. I find no offence and do not feel any hatred. It is only the politically correct, like you 'localboy', with your sick perverted view of the world, who think humour is equal to hatred. You go out of your way to find 'offence' where there is none. How many muslims have complained about this? From the story it wouyld appear that precisely NO muslims have complained. They are all probably laughing their pants off at a bunch of politically correct idiots making a mountain out of a molehill. (interestingly the security word for this post is 'hate-lack') Winston Smith
  • Score: 0

12:35pm Wed 6 May 09

Soozie says...

that all British women should walk the streets naked on Sunday afternoons to weed out terrorists."

Oh god no!! Please don't let any fat bottomed, droppy boobied, tatooed, and pierced chavs walk around naked.
that all British women should walk the streets naked on Sunday afternoons to weed out terrorists." Oh god no!! Please don't let any fat bottomed, droppy boobied, tatooed, and pierced chavs walk around naked. Soozie
  • Score: 0

12:53pm Wed 6 May 09

LocalBoy says...

"You pc thought police weasels, sneaks and informers can go to hell. I will say whatever words I d@mn well please, because I believe in freedom of speech. And the more you complain the more I will use them"

Another one of your quotes Winston.

The only thing I think is that you are banging your PC and English Patriotism drum to the wrong beat on this particular article.

There is nothing PC or anti-English in finding this "joke" offensive if you are offended by it.

It is clear many are, some are not, so what?

You anti-pc thought police weasels, sneaks and informers can go to hell. I will not say whatever words I don't d@mn well please, because I believe in freedom of speech. And the more you complain the more I will not use them.

Are you sick and perverted for telling people that they should not be offended by this "joke"?
"You pc thought police weasels, sneaks and informers can go to hell. I will say whatever words I d@mn well please, because I believe in freedom of speech. And the more you complain the more I will use them" Another one of your quotes Winston. The only thing I think is that you are banging your PC and English Patriotism drum to the wrong beat on this particular article. There is nothing PC or anti-English in finding this "joke" offensive if you are offended by it. It is clear many are, some are not, so what? You anti-pc thought police weasels, sneaks and informers can go to hell. I will not say whatever words I don't d@mn well please, because I believe in freedom of speech. And the more you complain the more I will not use them. Are you sick and perverted for telling people that they should not be offended by this "joke"? LocalBoy
  • Score: 0

1:04pm Wed 6 May 09

Soozie says...

Say, anyone know why Italian men grow moustaches?
Say, anyone know why Italian men grow moustaches? Soozie
  • Score: 0

1:27pm Wed 6 May 09

Winston Smith says...

I work as a manager in a food distribution warehouse. We've just been fined for homophobic wording in a job application. Well how else are you supposed to advertise for a Fudge Packer?
This political correctness has gone mad. I can't even refer to my child as 'my disabled son'. Apparently the correct term these days is 'daughter'.
I work as a manager in a food distribution warehouse. We've just been fined for homophobic wording in a job application. Well how else are you supposed to advertise for a Fudge Packer? This political correctness has gone mad. I can't even refer to my child as 'my disabled son'. Apparently the correct term these days is 'daughter'. Winston Smith
  • Score: 0

2:43pm Wed 6 May 09

Horace Wimpole says...

It was a sh!t joke.
It was a sh!t joke. Horace Wimpole
  • Score: 0

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