Parents criticise school snow closures (From Echo)

Can someone please give me an adequate reason as to why so many schools have closed, yet again.
The health and safety aspect, is I believe an urban myth. Or is it that with teachers missing, schools aren't able to reach their teacher/pupil ratio ?
Do teachers still get paid if they don't go in ?, and do parents get paid if they have to stay at home with children ?

Personally I like the idea adopted in many US schools, where if days are missed due to weather conditions, they are made up at the end of term.

The teachers today are nothing like the older teachers as these modern teachers and headteachers are pathetic.

What would they have done if they were teaching in 1963 when we had the worst uk weather in history. From boxing day into march we had arctic weather and the all the brave corragous teachers who had a backbone made sure the schools stayed open and parents of kids got there kids there ontime. I was in my final year at 15 years old and our school was open and we kids and the teachers trudged our way through 2 foot of snow not 2 inches like we had today.

Come on teachers, headmasters and head-mistresses and authorities please ask santa claus for a backbone and stop being pathetic, just gety on with it and stop moaning.

I can only suggest from my previous place of work that it is down to whether or not they can get the staff in. Even if staff are trying - yet stuck on the road like many, it is not a business that can tick along as normal with fewer staff. Hence quick or late decisions that inconvenience most. Several other sectors can be late due to what ever reason. If teachers are not there to teach / even supervise then it cannot happen. Gov rule state how many students per adult etc. Therefore if you have a school with teachers living further a field...
I will say however, I feel that mostly the 'good schools' stay open whatever the weather. By that I mean they have a large core of local staff that want to work there. Not having to be accumulated from further a field. Also, if I fell over as a kid and broke my arm, my parents wouldn't dream of 'taking action' against whoever. Some parents out there would make your eyes water! Just my view.

No mention of Southend Borough Council who have to clear the roads for the largest majority of readers of this paper! I've witnessed Essex gritters stopping at the Welcome to Southend sign and turning back around. A lot of the closures are down to Southend council simply not gritting areas around schools. As an example the new Hinguar school in Shoebury is in Gunners Park but the majority of parents walk via the Garrison. Not a single path or road has been gritted leading to it from the high street or station as the council refuse to adopt the roads. The place is a death trap and yet they still opened!

and yet the same parents think nothing of taking their little darlings out of school for a holiday during term time!! AND believe me, if their child falls over or gets hit by a snow ball, they complain to Essex County Council and try to sue for compensation!!!

Just a thought - how many teachers who couldn't make it into work managed to get to the town centre, retail park, local pub etc?

caroljb wrote:
and yet the same parents think nothing of taking their little darlings out of school for a holiday during term time!! AND believe me, if their child falls over or gets hit by a snow ball, they complain to Essex County Council and try to sue for compensation!!!

Agree!

Maybe parents need to have a back up plan in case schools are closed as this problem won't be solved over night.

mys842 wrote:
No mention of Southend Borough Council who have to clear the roads for the largest majority of readers of this paper! I've witnessed Essex gritters stopping at the Welcome to Southend sign and turning back around. A lot of the closures are down to Southend council simply not gritting areas around schools. As an example the new Hinguar school in Shoebury is in Gunners Park but the majority of parents walk via the Garrison. Not a single path or road has been gritted leading to it from the high street or station as the council refuse to adopt the roads. The place is a death trap and yet they still opened!

Not true I think. Yesterday evening I tracked a gritter on my PC coming east along the Arterial up to Tesco's then going along Cherry orchard lane and back through Hockley. Tracking gritters is everso slightly geeky I know, but I was interested to see how it worked and where they went. Try it! http://www.essexhigh
ways.org/Winter-Main
tenance/Track-the-gr
itting-lorries.aspx

Hours of fun :-)

the citizen wrote:

mys842 wrote:
No mention of Southend Borough Council who have to clear the roads for the largest majority of readers of this paper! I've witnessed Essex gritters stopping at the Welcome to Southend sign and turning back around. A lot of the closures are down to Southend council simply not gritting areas around schools. As an example the new Hinguar school in Shoebury is in Gunners Park but the majority of parents walk via the Garrison. Not a single path or road has been gritted leading to it from the high street or station as the council refuse to adopt the roads. The place is a death trap and yet they still opened!

Not true I think. Yesterday evening I tracked a gritter on my PC coming east along the Arterial up to Tesco's then going along Cherry orchard lane and back through Hockley. Tracking gritters is everso slightly geeky I know, but I was interested to see how it worked and where they went. Try it! http://www.essexhigh

ways.org/Winter-Main

tenance/Track-the-gr

itting-lorries.aspx

Hours of fun :-)

....unless of course he wasn't gritting the Southend roads and just getting access to the Hall Road. I've just checked and he's there right now.....it's just so exciting, better than the tv :-)

mys842 wrote:
No mention of Southend Borough Council who have to clear the roads for the largest majority of readers of this paper! I've witnessed Essex gritters stopping at the Welcome to Southend sign and turning back around. A lot of the closures are down to Southend council simply not gritting areas around schools. As an example the new Hinguar school in Shoebury is in Gunners Park but the majority of parents walk via the Garrison. Not a single path or road has been gritted leading to it from the high street or station as the council refuse to adopt the roads. The place is a death trap and yet they still opened!

Your not one of these people that expect every road and every path to be gritted are you?

if you watched the Southend twitter feeds such as @mysouthend & @ yoursouthend you would have seen how many people were tweeting about how many roads HAD been done, all the major roads were running clear.

Why should areas around schools take priority if they are not on main roads or the hospital surely they are more important.

Buy slip on snow spikes for yourself and the kids they are a few quid each and work wonders, just remember to take them off when you hit the concrete otherwide you sould like a tap dancer!

As for school closing those that can't teach apart from when it snows then they stay in bed.

I used to be a school governor and we have had this problem before, the real problem is the new american compensation culture, we have all seen the adverts if its not your fault we will fight your claim on a no win / no fee
So if the head teacher shuts the school - no problems.
The real villian is ESSEX EDUCATION for years we asked them for a definitive, legal response. but alas they are incapable of giving an answer , We received a 1000 word document which passed the buck to the head teacher, the health and safety side is a myth but everyone is frightened of getting sued.

the citizen wrote:

the citizen wrote:

mys842 wrote: No mention of Southend Borough Council who have to clear the roads for the largest majority of readers of this paper! I've witnessed Essex gritters stopping at the Welcome to Southend sign and turning back around. A lot of the closures are down to Southend council simply not gritting areas around schools. As an example the new Hinguar school in Shoebury is in Gunners Park but the majority of parents walk via the Garrison. Not a single path or road has been gritted leading to it from the high street or station as the council refuse to adopt the roads. The place is a death trap and yet they still opened!

Not true I think. Yesterday evening I tracked a gritter on my PC coming east along the Arterial up to Tesco's then going along Cherry orchard lane and back through Hockley. Tracking gritters is everso slightly geeky I know, but I was interested to see how it worked and where they went. Try it! http://www.essexhigh ways.org/Winter-Main tenance/Track-the-gr itting-lorries.aspx Hours of fun :-)

....unless of course he wasn't gritting the Southend roads and just getting access to the Hall Road. I've just checked and he's there right now.....it's just so exciting, better than the tv :-)

As I have commented elsewhere, I have driven to & from London for work this weekend (working nights) & I can assure you that the A13 within Southend Borough does not appear to have been gritted at all. The difference is marked as you pass into Hadleigh en route to London & the same as you enter Southend in the opposite direction.
This evening the roads in Southend were better, no doubt due to the volume of traffic.
Yes, you can track Essex County Council's grtting lorries, but they do (& state so on their website) treat any roads in unitary authorities such as Southend.
& no, I don't expect side roads etc to be cleared, but I do expect trunk roads & major bus routes to be.

I'll wager that all the teachers that failed to turn up at school got around easily enough on Sunday.

The Essex gritter site shows where the gritters are in real time, come on Southend do it as well it is proof they actually leave the depot

There again Southend wont accept the challenge

Will they

caroljb wrote:
and yet the same parents think nothing of taking their little darlings out of school for a holiday during term time!! AND believe me, if their child falls over or gets hit by a snow ball, they complain to Essex County Council and try to sue for compensation!!!

Hear hear!

rayleigh123 wrote:
I used to be a school governor and we have had this problem before, the real problem is the new american compensation culture, we have all seen the adverts if its not your fault we will fight your claim on a no win / no fee
So if the head teacher shuts the school - no problems.
The real villian is ESSEX EDUCATION for years we asked them for a definitive, legal response. but alas they are incapable of giving an answer , We received a 1000 word document which passed the buck to the head teacher, the health and safety side is a myth but everyone is frightened of getting sued.

Has any school ever been sued because a child slipped over ?

All it needs is a minister to state that schools cannot be sued. In the same way that a householder cannot be sued if someone slips over on a path they have cleared.... Which was another urban myth.

DogsMessInLeigh wrote:
I'll wager that all the teachers that failed to turn up at school got around easily enough on Sunday.

Can I just point out that it's not actually up to the teachers' to make the decision as to whether the school opens or stays shut - as someone working in a primary school I can guarantee you that we're all in the same position as the parents on the morning of snow fall - waiting for a call to inform us of a decision. Furthermore, if the school is closed, teachers are instructed to go to their nearest open school to teach a and believe me, they do! So it's not quite a case of laying in bed all day and being lazy!

H.79 wrote:

DogsMessInLeigh wrote:
I'll wager that all the teachers that failed to turn up at school got around easily enough on Sunday.

Can I just point out that it's not actually up to the teachers' to make the decision as to whether the school opens or stays shut - as someone working in a primary school I can guarantee you that we're all in the same position as the parents on the morning of snow fall - waiting for a call to inform us of a decision. Furthermore, if the school is closed, teachers are instructed to go to their nearest open school to teach a and believe me, they do! So it's not quite a case of laying in bed all day and being lazy!

Totally agree that we cannot blame the teachers for the decision to close. But as for teaching at their nearest school?.....Now THAT would be an interesting survey for the Echo to carry out.

So, would teachers be happy if schools tagged days onto the end of term, to make up for lost days ?

Or should I say, the local education authority made that decision ?

do as others have suggested have the six weeks holiday in winter when there's the chance of weather disruption then they can go during the end of July, through August and into September instead

Rich{Carole wrote:
The teachers today are nothing like the older teachers as these modern teachers and headteachers are pathetic.

What would they have done if they were teaching in 1963 when we had the worst uk weather in history. From boxing day into march we had arctic weather and the all the brave corragous teachers who had a backbone made sure the schools stayed open and parents of kids got there kids there ontime. I was in my final year at 15 years old and our school was open and we kids and the teachers trudged our way through 2 foot of snow not 2 inches like we had today.

Come on teachers, headmasters and head-mistresses and authorities please ask santa claus for a backbone and stop being pathetic, just gety on with it and stop moaning.

Teachers back then lived locally to the school where they worked, many would spend almost their whole career working in one local school. Things are very different these days, with teachers often travelling 30 or 40 miles to and from their places of work and therefore in the hands of those in charge of our road or rail networks.

If there wasn't such a "claim" culture, then I'm sure more schools would stay open, however with the current predisposition to slapping in a compensation claim for the slightest injury when ever possible, they are protecting themselves by closing. Senior schools in particular may be spread over a number of buildings so there is a huge safety issue at lesson changeover times.

Also, if people actually behaved like good citizens and cleared the pathways at the front of their houses then perhaps routes to and from schools would be less hazardous for people to walk on, and it would therefore be easier to walk children in to school during such weather?

Of course teachers are still paid if their school is shut, they can still work on lesson preparation and planning from home on their laptops. It might mean they actually get to leave school on time for a while as they've got everything in hand for once! People really don't have any realistic view of how hard teachers DO work, and no, I'm not one, but I have been a Chair of Governors in a school, and was a Governor for some 12 years!

"......Things are very different these days, with teachers often travelling 30 or 40 miles to and from their places of work......"

Surely that is their choice ? Maybe they should either move, or get a job locally ?

I bet they would get in if they were not paid for non attendance. Or if they were self-employed.

I do understand people's points but at the end of the day surely the safety of our children is most important. In woodlands defence it is in the middle of a housing estate which makes access to it very difficult , it will be better when the new entrance is complete.

Antonius wrote:
"......Things are very different these days, with teachers often travelling 30 or 40 miles to and from their places of work......"

Surely that is their choice ? Maybe they should either move, or get a job locally ?

I bet they would get in if they were not paid for non attendance. Or if they were self-employed.

Teachers don't stay at one school, they move on after a few years to further their careers and for "professional development". That is why so many travel. The school I work in (in Benfleet), has staff coming in from Braintree and Brentwood, as well as Southend! The TAs and office staff tend to be local, but very few, if any, teachers live within walking distance. I know at one senior school nearby that some teachers travel down from London on the train!

I expect that the profession is a lot different to what it was when you were at school!

I think it is absolutely ridiculous! Schools shutting because of snow! (In the voice of a crochety old man_ When I was at school we WALKED to school in knee deep snow, (Vange to Woodlands) If there wasn't enough teachers we would be supervised in the hall! It causes chaos for working mums having to have the time off, gives the wrong working impression. Kids think they can just have time off work once they have left school! As for compensation claims, these are out of hand and should be thrown out.

caroljb wrote:
and yet the same parents think nothing of taking their little darlings out of school for a holiday during term time!! AND believe me, if their child falls over or gets hit by a snow ball, they complain to Essex County Council and try to sue for compensation!!!

Agree, but this should be addressed right the way through the board. This compensation society is ridiculous!

The difference between now and the 60's mentioned before is that teachers and staff tend not to live in the near vicintity and quite likely quite a distance away compared to that era. There is a ratio of teachers to pupils that must be ahered to legally.
That and the also mentioned but not insignificant litigation culture that is now rife in our society.

Having said all of that, we have staff members that made it in from across the Thames and North Essex. ;)

The main roads were free running and nice and quiet too.

I was shocked at the amount of Schools that were closed and can only imagine the impact that has on parents that need to get to work....

I'm sure the schools have a difficult time deciding & have to take a lot into consideration, staff to pupil ratio, & public transport which doesn't seem to cope too well,I don't think it's fair to be critical of schools who decide not to open, I think their dammed if they do & dammed if they don't.

I agree. I dont think the schools close for the hell of it.
Its just a shame in this day and age something more cant be done for the few annual days of Snow and ice.

Like you say, damned if the do and damned if they dont.

As said, the roads were clear on Monday morning.

Yes, years ago teachers tended to stay with one school for most of their working life, and were part of the community.

We had some very good teachers !

Basildon academies opened but they are an academy so health & safety doesn't seem to apply,& I'm sure they still punished children who did manage to get in but was late due to transport problems ect,! that school lacks common sense so a bad example

Eric Whim wrote:
do as others have suggested have the six weeks holiday in winter when there's the chance of weather disruption then they can go during the end of July, through August and into September instead

Can't do that as it would damage the economy. People have more days out, and spend their money, in the summer compared to the winter. This spending would reduce.
How about a fixed two week summer break, and let the schools decide when they want to take the other 4 weeks any time in the year. And if they have to close for a day because of snow then it comes off the 4 weeks. The majority would still choose summer, but it might spread the summer holidays over a longer period thereby stimulating a bit of growth in the economy.
Or even have no school holidays at all, and give every pupil a leave allowance like workers, to take when they like. Book your leave, teacher gives you homework to do covering the topics to be covered in that subject when you will be away, and when the work is done to the satisfaction of the teacher then the holiday is approved.

Lets try an experiment. No pay unless staff turn up to work. You may then see people walking through their "blocked sideroads" to public transport, or staying overnight near the school to be at work the next day.

I cannot remember my school ever being closed in bad weather - you just walked through the snow.

People keep banging on about the safety of the children. Personally, I believe all the scare stories about schools not wanting to get sued is nothing more than a scare story, an urban myth.
Ok, let those parents who are worried about their precious darlings, keep them cocooned at home, but let the rest get to their place of learning.

Parents don't seem to mind if their kids are careering down a hillside on a toboggan, where they are far more likely to hurt themselves. I bet half of them don't even bother to clear their own paths and driveways.

As I've said before, if schools call a snow day, make it up at the end of term. That might concentrate the minds a little more ? After all, the teachers have already been paid for them

I personally have never heard of a parent "complaining" about a scchool closure due to snow.
Making it up at the end of term would have hardly any benefit, the last day of term in schools are always very relaxed and care free.
Holidays are breaks, and with the stress of exams and revision in secondary schools holiday time is very valuable to both pupils and the school.
Many people are unable to clear their pathway because they have higher priorities such as working and childcare.

If both parents are working, and it meant one of them losing a day's pay, I think they would have very good grounds for complaining.

I think most people who are fit enough, are more than able to clear their paths and driveways of snow, and put some salt down. Especially if safety is one of their priorities, theirs and their postman.

If a day or two were added to the end of term. they would still get that "last day" A couple of days taken from a six week break shouldn't be too stressful.
Many schools in the US seem to cope with this formula.

I'm sure parents are more than happy to spend one or two extra days a year with there children especially when they are able to go out and enjoy their time together in the snow.
Secondary school children are more than capable of looking after themselves for 5 hours hours, it won't do them any harm.

It's not just a question of being fit enough, it's also a question of time, if they are that "busy" that there child cannot have a day off school to enjoy the snow then how on earth do you expect the to have time to clear snow when they have spent a busy day at work.
Extending the term would only create problems and it's guaranteed that secondary school children will not turn up for those 'extra' days.
Snow only happens once or twice a year why not stop complaining and just enjoy.

It can be frustrating when we have to work but need to take time off unexpectedly ,but their a school not child carers.

Schools have always closed if teachers can't get to school. I had days off in '63 and '67 because of the snow but it was never for more than a day or two The problem is simple, if the schools cannot maintain a minimum teacher to student ratio they are breaking the rules and have little choice but temporary closure, but it never lasts for long, as soon as the roads are gritted and passable things get back to normal. Don't know why you lot are complaining.

Local yachtsman wrote:
Schools have always closed if teachers can't get to school. I had days off in '63 and '67 because of the snow but it was never for more than a day or two The problem is simple, if the schools cannot maintain a minimum teacher to student ratio they are breaking the rules and have little choice but temporary closure, but it never lasts for long, as soon as the roads are gritted and passable things get back to normal. Don't know why you lot are complaining.

agree!

People are complaining, because every year the bad weather seems to come as a total surprise to head teachers.
Someone would rather look out of their window and say that they can't get their car off their drive, than actually get a shovel and shift the snow.
Especially if they know they have to be out early the next morning.

I cleared my drive twice on Sunday. Come Monday morning it was totally snow free, as were the roads.

It doesn't really take a lot of effort. Just a bit of forward planning

Letmetryagain wrote:
If both parents are working, and it meant one of them losing a day's pay, I think they would have very good grounds for complaining. I think most people who are fit enough, are more than able to clear their paths and driveways of snow, and put some salt down. Especially if safety is one of their priorities, theirs and their postman. If a day or two were added to the end of term. they would still get that "last day" A couple of days taken from a six week break shouldn't be too stressful. Many schools in the US seem to cope with this formula.

I have already booked My Summer holiday.

Will you pay for my families flight / hotel changes? £1000 should cover it.

Thanks in advance.

Ho, Ho, Ho, OBVIOUSLY something like this couldn't happen immediately.
If it were written into the rules of the school, people would then be aware of the consequences of missing in term days. Both teachers and parents.

If parents have to miss work because a head teacher thinks little jimmy or jemima might slip over, they make. Will they get their lost wages reimbursed ?

Letmetryagain wrote:
Ho, Ho, Ho, OBVIOUSLY something like this couldn't happen immediately. If it were written into the rules of the school, people would then be aware of the consequences of missing in term days. Both teachers and parents. If parents have to miss work because a head teacher thinks little jimmy or jemima might slip over, they make. Will they get their lost wages reimbursed ?

So for which dates can I book my holiday? Only week 2 onwards, just in case first week is extended term? Great news for the travel business who already massively overcharge. Or will the first week of summer be cheaper?

The US vacation culture is completely different to the UK.

Decisions, decisions. Who'd be a parent ? All of that responsibility :)

HK9597 wrote:

Letmetryagain wrote:
If both parents are working, and it meant one of them losing a day's pay, I think they would have very good grounds for complaining. I think most people who are fit enough, are more than able to clear their paths and driveways of snow, and put some salt down. Especially if safety is one of their priorities, theirs and their postman. If a day or two were added to the end of term. they would still get that "last day" A couple of days taken from a six week break shouldn't be too stressful. Many schools in the US seem to cope with this formula.

I have already booked My Summer holiday.

Will you pay for my families flight / hotel changes? £1000 should cover it.

Thanks in advance.

You can take out insurance.

Yes, but that would be too easy :)

Although people usually only pay a deposit this far in advance, and the balance shortly before the holiday.

Pay by Visa and you are covered anyway.

Yes I'm sure 'kids had to go to school' will be covered on everyone's insurance policy'.....

It's ironic that pupils who needed to take exams, managed to get to school.