Southend Airport plan: Government intervenes (From Echo)

Why the f doesnt the planning application go direct to 'The Secretary for state' in the first place and save loads of cash bypassing our muppet council.

It just delays the inevitable.

Within the next ten years, some one will mark out the airport for building plots, but I won't be around by then.

Well, at least it will mean the final decision will be made after the JAPP results get published. Also it will stop the council excluding so many of our elected councillors from voting, just because they oppose the extension.

its a shame it had to come to this but it only goes to show that the so called nimbys and branded activists at saen have true valued arguments obviously the government also have some concerns as proven by there article 14 response perhaps we should all take note of this

Thank goodness that the national government is more democratic than this local bunch

This makes no difference at all. The Secretary of State probably would not want to get involved unless there was evidence that it was of such national importatnce or detrement that it would require him to do so. It is merely a delaying tactic for the inevitable. Someone, somewhere has prodded the Labour Minister into issuing this Article 14 Direction as a last ditch attempt to try and sabbotage events. I wonder who it was? Amess perhaps? In a letter to my good self, James Dudderidge MP believed the "Secretary of State should not make such decisions and that the local councils should have total authority over these matters".

Its a pity that other planning decisions don't also have to be ratified - might then have a few trees remaining within the borough.

Whatever your viewpoint on the proposals regarding the airport you have to ask just what is the point of any local authority going through all this costly rigmorole only to face the prospect of having to bow to an overriding decision by the Secretary of State.

So many decisions are now made by central government, particularly regarding planning and infrastructure, that local authorities (and the local electorate) having little influence over what happens to their area.

Have we reached the point where the local authority is little more than a collecting agent for Council Tax and a managing agent for private developers and contractors?

to summarise; what a bloody shambles!
I wonder what Stobart Group will think about this delay. The runway should have been ready for 2012.

Two quick points.

Firstly to Campbell's dad - this will not mean that the whole council will vote, all it means is that if the planning committee vote in favour, the Secretary of State will look at the proposals and then decide whether to hold public enquiry.

Secondly, I'm not convinced this is a bad thing as, should the Secretary of State support the plans, then he (or his department ) will have done so o the basis of facts rather than scaremongering. Equally if he refuses permission, then Stobarts can run the airport under existing guidelines with no restrictions on night flights etc.

Happy now?

I won't hold my breath then!
It all depends who's got the more clout. Central Gov, Local residents, or Big Bussiness. Any one want to open a book on It?

emcee wrote:
This makes no difference at all. The Secretary of State probably would not want to get involved unless there was evidence that it was of such national importatnce or detrement that it would require him to do so. It is merely a delaying tactic for the inevitable. Someone, somewhere has prodded the Labour Minister into issuing this Article 14 Direction as a last ditch attempt to try and sabbotage events. I wonder who it was? Amess perhaps? In a letter to my good self, James Dudderidge MP believed the "Secretary of State should not make such decisions and that the local councils should have total authority over these matters".

Excuse me laughing haHaHa
, but there has been so much nastyness
over this piece of planning. i just find it so ironic.

great news!
The decision making process should not be rushed and this will enable full impartial, objective, subjective consideration of the proposals.
I note in the (all to be believed) Echo today that there was no impartial consultants acting on behalf of the planning authority when considering the proposal...at least now there will be external consideration of the facts not just the naive belief that this proposal from stobbarts will benefit and "enhance" the community in which it operates.ok as stated if consent is not granted then there are no restrictions on night flights , hopefully the newly elected adminsitration will act in the best interests of the residents and negotiate with stobbarts to restrict night operations for the good of the borough..i doubt it? pigs will fly rather than planes if this happened...1.2.3.4..
.basil where are you?

I spoke to someone at Go East and as far as I can make out ,all planning applications in thier area of this size are refered to them to clarify that the plans and process etc are ok.The Southend committee can still vote on the application and if they support it then Go East will inspect this and if is all OK they will rubber stamp the application,if they are not happy for some reason they can then refer it to a minister.

The night flights Sir Henry mentions. With planning permission 120 per month! Without 915 per month.

Happy now Nimbys !!!!!!!!!!
Oh and without noise level restrictions !!!!!!!!!

Oh how we have been lead by the scaremongering 2%

it better be aproved or this area will become boring and **** tbh!

Don't worry notnimbys I am still here. Only just had access to the web.
An article 14 makes a difference how? The merits of the proposal are the same, and due process was still followed.
No doubt the airport would prefer a straight forward yes to minimise delays. But the DCC will still make a decision tomorrow either way, and hopefully the right decision will be made for the future prosperity of the area.
The Secretary of State will then analyse the application, ask any questions and make his decision based on the facts already presented.

As for restrictions on night flights should the application not go through... Surely Stobart would be wanting to maximise its investment with limited potential (ie existing runway length)?
However, IF (and I have never been naive enough to suggest its a forgone conclusion), the application fails. Then I worry about the future of the Southend area and the attractiveness to any companies looking in.

But there are no good reasons why the application should be rejected.

1.2.3.4.......

r6keith wrote:
The night flights Sir Henry mentions. With planning permission 120 per month! Without 915 per month. Happy now Nimbys !!!!!!!!!! Oh and without noise level restrictions !!!!!!!!! Oh how we have been lead by the scaremongering 2%

its not a matter of whether we are happy as you say..its important that consideration is given to the proposal impartially and with an objective view..this is the democratic process...you are implying that the amount of night flights in the vicinty is non beneficial to residents, if this is the case then shouldnt this important issue be considered whether there is a planning application or not? there has been a lack of foresight in the past allowing night flights in any event..the council i hope will consider that the current agreement is not appropriate...Southa
mpton is compared although no night flights are allowed..why should all residents be threatended with expansion because of the current agreement is not adequate...also i wonder how many residents will use southend airport if the pricing mechanism does not compare with other airports nearby...how many fans will there be if the airport expands and is not used by locals..compare prices at city airport to stanstead, heathrow, gatwick note the difference....how many people use gatwick,stanstead, heathrow when there are similar flights nearer to home from city aiport yet it is not used because the flights are more expensive...

notnimbys wrote:
great news!
The decision making process should not be rushed and this will enable full impartial, objective, subjective consideration of the proposals.
I note in the (all to be believed) Echo today that there was no impartial consultants acting on behalf of the planning authority when considering the proposal...at least now there will be external consideration of the facts not just the naive belief that this proposal from stobbarts will benefit and "enhance" the community in which it operates.ok as stated if consent is not granted then there are no restrictions on night flights , hopefully the newly elected adminsitration will act in the best interests of the residents and negotiate with stobbarts to restrict night operations for the good of the borough..i doubt it? pigs will fly rather than planes if this happened...1.2.3.4..

.basil where are you?

I really do not see what all the fuss is about. As someone has already pointed out, this is only going to be a "rubber stamp" situation. There is no "great news" about it. What a ridiculous thing to say. It's only a formality. Admitedly one that only succeeds in wasting time and energy, but a formality all the same. This is not a step in the wrong direction for the extension, just a detour or stopping off point.

rubber stamp or rubber duck i just don't care just get on with it and get it done!

BASILBRUSH wrote:
Don't worry notnimbys I am still here. Only just had access to the web. An article 14 makes a difference how? The merits of the proposal are the same, and due process was still followed. No doubt the airport would prefer a straight forward yes to minimise delays. But the DCC will still make a decision tomorrow either way, and hopefully the right decision will be made for the future prosperity of the area. The Secretary of State will then analyse the application, ask any questions and make his decision based on the facts already presented. As for restrictions on night flights should the application not go through... Surely Stobart would be wanting to maximise its investment with limited potential (ie existing runway length)? However, IF (and I have never been naive enough to suggest its a forgone conclusion), the application fails. Then I worry about the future of the Southend area and the attractiveness to any companies looking in. But there are no good reasons why the application should be rejected. 1.2.3.4.......

5.6.7.8.....as noted its just good to note than an external view will be taken...its interesting to note that if the expansion is accepted then Southend will become Utopia. is this a guarantee..no.surely the size of the airport does not guarantee the prosperity of the region(compare to others) how will prosperity be measured increase in average pay, unemployment rates.. we will see that an airport expansion is not the only variable that makes a prosperous region..as noted i read in the echo that no impartial external view was taken by the planning authority when considering this application..isnt this the "due process" when considering a major application of this type? its not just the application.. its the process thats been adopted that should be considered to be fair and reasonable to all.... hope your sky+ works ok now?

emcee wrote:

notnimbys wrote: great news! The decision making process should not be rushed and this will enable full impartial, objective, subjective consideration of the proposals. I note in the (all to be believed) Echo today that there was no impartial consultants acting on behalf of the planning authority when considering the proposal...at least now there will be external consideration of the facts not just the naive belief that this proposal from stobbarts will benefit and "enhance" the community in which it operates.ok as stated if consent is not granted then there are no restrictions on night flights , hopefully the newly elected adminsitration will act in the best interests of the residents and negotiate with stobbarts to restrict night operations for the good of the borough..i doubt it? pigs will fly rather than planes if this happened...1.2.3.4.. .basil where are you?

I really do not see what all the fuss is about. As someone has already pointed out, this is only going to be a "rubber stamp" situation. There is no "great news" about it. What a ridiculous thing to say. It's only a formality. Admitedly one that only succeeds in wasting time and energy, but a formality all the same. This is not a step in the wrong direction for the extension, just a detour or stopping off point.

ok i forgot this is a "done deal" naive of me...but i really hope that an independant subjective view can now be taken....even if it does take time...

Does anyone believe that this Government really care about South East Essex.

notnimbys,
Are you privvy to the fare structures of airlines and an airport in negotiations?
The cost of a flight when comparing it to to the cost of the other larger airports will be based on time, convenience, any costs for parking or travelling by train, petrol and the product available (ie routes) as well as the actual cost of the flight.
When I book a flight I consider all those factors.
Convenience and reducing actual time in travelling is a big incentive.
You mention City airport. They are doing very well considering the higher fares.
But then I don't pretend to know the potential fares from Southend, so i don't assume they will be any more or less expensive than Stansted or Gatwick.
.
Southampton is compared by virtue of its size and type of passenger operation and financial affects on the local economy. Not as a carbon copy. That has been made clear on more than one occasion. Only SAEN use the amount of night flights as a comparison.

Whether I use Southend will depend on whether they have a flight to a destination I am going to at that time. I won't resent the airport being there if I have to fly from Stansted or Heathrow once in a while, because the benefits to the area will be more than worth it. An existing airport which already supports over 1200 jobs will have a secure future.

Sky+ working fine. I just couldn't use it properly (other brands of tv providers are available). ;)

tophatdt wrote:
to summarise; what a bloody shambles! I wonder what Stobart Group will think about this delay. The runway should have been ready for 2012.

If it was me I would give them an ultimatum - get with the program or we are moving operations somewhere else.

This would suit the nimbys, however these are the people that have tunnel vision and cannot see the big picture.

Lets move on and build the extension.

hey all is not lost for stobarts if this isnt approved with the new super port being built this corner of the southeast will be very good for freight and with no noise restrictions and a very high cap on flights at night could make a packet with air, sea , road, and rail links.
Only losers would be the people of southend with nowhere near the jobs created that there would be with a passenger airport.
lets hope they dont have to diverse their plans.

southendmechanic wrote:
hey all is not lost for stobarts if this isnt approved with the new super port being built this corner of the southeast will be very good for freight and with no noise restrictions and a very high cap on flights at night could make a packet with air, sea , road, and rail links. Only losers would be the people of southend with nowhere near the jobs created that there would be with a passenger airport. lets hope they dont have to diverse their plans.

The super port is still not certain.At the riskof making steam come out of basils ears. perhaps thats what stobbarts want
??????

at present stobarts have a fantastic facility at dartford.
I cant see them going ahead with nething like this IF they get the planning permision remember night flights will be capped if permision is given and that noise levels will also be limited. Southend isnt big enough for a large scale freight and passenger operation and much more money is made from passenger flights and retail associated with passenger flights.
The airport has cost millions to stobarts and if passenger flights are limited due to runway length they would have to do what any company would do and make their money anyway they can with the situation they have.
Seriously Stobarts are a good company who fulfill their promises and there is noone saying any diffrent.
We should embrace companys from the united kingdom investing in southend and work alongside to make this project not only work but be of benefit to everyone

BASILBRUSH wrote:
notnimbys, Are you privvy to the fare structures of airlines and an airport in negotiations? The cost of a flight when comparing it to to the cost of the other larger airports will be based on time, convenience, any costs for parking or travelling by train, petrol and the product available (ie routes) as well as the actual cost of the flight. When I book a flight I consider all those factors. Convenience and reducing actual time in travelling is a big incentive. You mention City airport. They are doing very well considering the higher fares. But then I don't pretend to know the potential fares from Southend, so i don't assume they will be any more or less expensive than Stansted or Gatwick. . Southampton is compared by virtue of its size and type of passenger operation and financial affects on the local economy. Not as a carbon copy. That has been made clear on more than one occasion. Only SAEN use the amount of night flights as a comparison. Whether I use Southend will depend on whether they have a flight to a destination I am going to at that time. I won't resent the airport being there if I have to fly from Stansted or Heathrow once in a while, because the benefits to the area will be more than worth it. An existing airport which already supports over 1200 jobs will have a secure future.

no not privy...just asking the question..and i am not pretending to know the price structure, however price is a major factor in travel...you will be aware that the expansion of sustainable infrastructure is important i.e. train travel...local hubs making it easier to travel by train rather than plane...the government is actively supporting this mode of transport.... Just because SAEN use Southampton as a comparison does not mean that it should be dismissed out of hand. i trust Southampton airport is profitable without night flights so this is the basis of the comparison and argument. Also i believe london city airport does not have night flights so again why the need..if stobbart and the council are serious about "enhancing" the environment in which we all live then why not an agreement to a total ban?

Ha ha.
I'm honoured I get so much attention.
I am still surprised that people aren't pleased to see a high profile British company willing to invest in Southend, as a good thing?
Yes they are in it to make money. It's what companies do.
If they want to make money in Southend, whilst updating an existing facility to it's former glory whilst agreeing to restrictions then clearly I see that as great for the area.
If less than 1% of the regions population that were moved to comment manage to prevent that, then surely that's a sad state of affairs?
I look forward to the outcome of tomorrow.

notnimbys do you seriously think SAEN would (even if they had any power or influance on the decision) be happy with the runway extension and no night flight? Why should they restrict the night flights totally to zero anyway? already southend has proved vital to diverted aircraft and with the extension noise levels will be limited.

Soozie wrote:

tophatdt wrote: to summarise; what a bloody shambles! I wonder what Stobart Group will think about this delay. The runway should have been ready for 2012.

If it was me I would give them an ultimatum - get with the program or we are moving operations somewhere else. This would suit the nimbys, however these are the people that have tunnel vision and cannot see the big picture. Lets move on and build the extension.

Canada perhaps - hopefully!

congratulations saen this would never have happened without you and your thousands of supporters. Now let's keep going to a public inquiry

perini wrote:

Soozie wrote:

tophatdt wrote: to summarise; what a bloody shambles! I wonder what Stobart Group will think about this delay. The runway should have been ready for 2012.

If it was me I would give them an ultimatum - get with the program or we are moving operations somewhere else. This would suit the nimbys, however these are the people that have tunnel vision and cannot see the big picture. Lets move on and build the extension.

Canada perhaps - hopefully!

Well the way things look in this country - yeah!!

When this extension goes through, maybe you can get a job there hmmm?

notnimbys wrote:

r6keith wrote: The night flights Sir Henry mentions. With planning permission 120 per month! Without 915 per month. Happy now Nimbys !!!!!!!!!! Oh and without noise level restrictions !!!!!!!!! Oh how we have been lead by the scaremongering 2%

its not a matter of whether we are happy as you say..its important that consideration is given to the proposal impartially and with an objective view..this is the democratic process...you are implying that the amount of night flights in the vicinty is non beneficial to residents, if this is the case then shouldnt this important issue be considered whether there is a planning application or not? there has been a lack of foresight in the past allowing night flights in any event..the council i hope will consider that the current agreement is not appropriate...Southa mpton is compared although no night flights are allowed..why should all residents be threatended with expansion because of the current agreement is not adequate...also i wonder how many residents will use southend airport if the pricing mechanism does not compare with other airports nearby...how many fans will there be if the airport expands and is not used by locals..compare prices at city airport to stanstead, heathrow, gatwick note the difference....how many people use gatwick,stanstead, heathrow when there are similar flights nearer to home from city aiport yet it is not used because the flights are more expensive...

We have done the process, lets just get on and build. The current 106 agreement is 915 night flights like it or not. We do not live in Southhampton we live in Southend. City airport flights are more bussiness based flights.
None of the low cost operators fly from city either. You are not threatened with expansion its just a way for the airport to move forward which a very high percentage of the population of this area are happy to let happen.Maybe you should move on !

R P S wrote:
congratulations saen this would never have happened without you and your thousands of supporters. Now let's keep going to a public inquiry

Thousands?
I'm sure its been mentioned before, but less than 1% of the area population made negative comments about the extension.

R P S wrote:
congratulations saen this would never have happened without you and your thousands of supporters. Now let's keep going to a public inquiry

And watch Southend die , more jobs gone today at EON , wake up move on, or shall I order the tumble weed ?

R P S wrote:
congratulations saen this would never have happened without you and your thousands of supporters. Now let's keep going to a public inquiry

You made a typing mistake there. 'Thousands' should have been 'handful'.

GOOD IDEA, LET THE GOVERMENT F..K IT UP , LIKE THEY HAVE THE REST OF THE COUNTRY

With so many jobs being lost in and around this area its a shame that more obstacles keep getting thrown in the way of improving the airport. More jobs will be created for the locals and more money generated for the area. Perhaps the Stobart group should be supported for trying to invest here. What would all the locals feel if the airport ever closes and thousands more houses are built around them. It would be interesting to know how many people objecting to expansion brought there houses knowing the airport already existed before moving there !!!!

R P S wrote:
congratulations saen this would never have happened without you and your thousands of supporters. Now let's keep going to a public inquiry

SAEN had nothing to do with it you numpty... unless a member works for that department if so then they will face corruption charges if found out.

Get a life its a Labour Govenement screwing over a Tory town thats all plane and simple.

Soozie wrote:

perini wrote:

Soozie wrote:

tophatdt wrote: to summarise; what a bloody shambles! I wonder what Stobart Group will think about this delay. The runway should have been ready for 2012.

If it was me I would give them an ultimatum - get with the program or we are moving operations somewhere else. This would suit the nimbys, however these are the people that have tunnel vision and cannot see the big picture. Lets move on and build the extension.

Canada perhaps - hopefully!

Well the way things look in this country - yeah!! When this extension goes through, maybe you can get a job there hmmm?

Thanks - After being made redundant a job would be nice. Mind you, if the colonials stayed in the colonies there would be more jobs for the native workforce!

14-3 in favour!!!!!!!!

Lets just get it built eh!

perini wrote:

Soozie wrote:

perini wrote:

Soozie wrote:

tophatdt wrote: to summarise; what a bloody shambles! I wonder what Stobart Group will think about this delay. The runway should have been ready for 2012.

If it was me I would give them an ultimatum - get with the program or we are moving operations somewhere else. This would suit the nimbys, however these are the people that have tunnel vision and cannot see the big picture. Lets move on and build the extension.

Canada perhaps - hopefully!

Well the way things look in this country - yeah!! When this extension goes through, maybe you can get a job there hmmm?

Thanks - After being made redundant a job would be nice. Mind you, if the colonials stayed in the colonies there would be more jobs for the native workforce!

I don't think that will happen. The colonials seem better educated and don't carry such a chip on their shoulder.

Remember, the natives don't want to work under Labour government.

Colonials have PRIDE

xx