VIDEO: Travellers lose final battle to stay at Dale Farm (From Echo)
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VIDEO: Travellers lose final battle to stay at Dale Farm
2:28pm Wednesday 31st August 2011 in News
Dale Farm residents outside the court today
Lawyers today failed in a last-ditch attempt to prevent the eviction of families from Dale Farm.
They had applied for a temporary injunction to stop Basildon Borough Council evicting the families from Dale Farm in Essex from midnight.
The case hinged on the circumstances of 72-year-old Mary Flynn who suffers breathing problems and uses an electric nebuliser.
The High Court in London has now dismissed the application.
Tony Ball, Tory leader of Basildon Council, said:“We are satisfied with today’s High Court decision. We will now continue with our preparations for the clearance of Dale Farm. But this will take place only after we have informed the travellers of the intended date when the operation will begin.
“Direct action to clear Dale Farm is a last resort for the council and we take it reluctantly - but after almost 10 years of legal wrangling and exhausting the judicial process the travellers have left us with absolutely no choice. They have broken the law which we are duty bound to uphold. And this is what we believe the vast majority of local people expect us to do.”
Basildon Council gave a legal undertaking to review fresh medical evidence relating to Mrs Flynn before proceeding against her.
Mr Justice Kenneth Parker said that 2009 proceedings in the Court of Appeal relating to Dale Farm were of "crucial significance".
That court had concluded that the council's decision to enforce was entirely lawful in that the Article 8 rights had been considered a number of times and the proper procedure followed.
He rejected the claim that a further step had to be taken enabling specific individuals facing enforcement to have access to an independent tribunal.
He said: "It is in the public interest that there should be finality to litigation and only exceptionally can decisions and judgments which have been determined by the courts (be) reopened."
Refusing the injunction he said the only aspect which gave him some concern was medical evidence received on Tuesday of significant deterioration in Mrs Flynn's condition since the Court of Appeal decision.
The judge was told by lawyers for the council that this fresh material would be considered before proceeding against her. The judge refused permission to appeal, although lawyers for the travellers can apply directly to the Court of Appeal.
FULL STORY AND REACTION IN THURSDAY'S PAPER
Comments(106)
rochfordfa
says...
4:12pm Wed 31 Aug 11
I bet if she moved into accomodation that does not suffer from damp and cold she wouldn't need the nebuliser so much. Also, as these "travellers" look after their own, I am sure one of her friends would have a generator she could use to give her the electricity supply she needs for about 30 minutes 4 times a day.
Aint it just the truth
says...
4:36pm Wed 31 Aug 11
Ironman
says...
4:45pm Wed 31 Aug 11
.
billericay boy
says...
4:50pm Wed 31 Aug 11
Bonneville Bert
says...
4:51pm Wed 31 Aug 11
At last, JUSTICE!!!!!
resident3
says...
5:12pm Wed 31 Aug 11
Bulldozers READY!
Tazers READY!
WAGONS ROLL!
westcliff willi
says...
5:21pm Wed 31 Aug 11
billericay boy wrote:must be a great holiday if your sitting round the computer reading this stuff.
Good I'm celebrating in the algarve tonight, I think I mite go to paddys bar
APR
says...
5:22pm Wed 31 Aug 11
Hang on, do we still have an Air Force ?
Just watch the news and read the papers. There will be close up pictures showing police brutality. Of course, none showing violence inflicted by the Pikey brigade.
el caballero de la noche
says...
5:24pm Wed 31 Aug 11
Time 5.20pm 31.8.2011 HAVE THEY GONE YET ????????????????????
????????????????????
????????????????????
??????????
Bring on the War.
Give em Hell Lads for all the old folk they have conned for all the delivery traders they have stolen from, for all the shop keepers that have suffered, for all the locals they have threatened, for all the dogs they have put to death fighting, for all the locals living nearby lawfully in fact every Law abiding person in the country.
jubbly
says...
5:57pm Wed 31 Aug 11
If that old pikey who needs a nebuliser has to have electricity, I've got just the thing, a nice little chair rigged up to the electrical circuit - then kerbam !!
If anyone feels sorry for these evil bastards let them into your back garden - NO - thought not.
have some sense
says...
5:58pm Wed 31 Aug 11
only differance now basildon council will have 20 camps to deal with and cost will rise again in removing them in not perfect the present situation but it is managed in one place dale farm
el caballero de la noche
says...
6:21pm Wed 31 Aug 11
Max Impact
says...
6:21pm Wed 31 Aug 11
Max Impact
says...
6:23pm Wed 31 Aug 11
Max Impact wrote:ignore that they just poped up, must invest in a new mobile...
The top of the page said 12 comments but there are none!
el caballero de la noche
says...
6:23pm Wed 31 Aug 11
Max Impact wrote:Patience Mr Mannering!
The top of the page said 12 comments but there are none!
Good news is always worth the wait.
Safend Dave
says...
6:36pm Wed 31 Aug 11
Party at Len Griddleys house me thinks?
carnacation
says...
6:50pm Wed 31 Aug 11
InTheKnowOk
says...
7:04pm Wed 31 Aug 11
Yesterday we saw Vanessa Redgrave turn up, we have protesters in tow, who like Vanessa, know nothing of the full facts, and then the shocking news that Len was arrested, what a farce this has been. It would be comical but for the millions it has cost to evict them.
KeepLeighsafeandLovely
says...
8:14pm Wed 31 Aug 11
iain beag
says...
8:14pm Wed 31 Aug 11
el caballero de la noche
says...
8:57pm Wed 31 Aug 11
have some sense wrote:People like you make me angry, you have NO idea just how truly dreadful these people really are.
easy to say kick them out but to where your back yard no ones want that at present you have them all together once moved on, they will not moving very far they will stay in the basildon area like they have for a generation
only differance now basildon council will have 20 camps to deal with and cost will rise again in removing them in not perfect the present situation but it is managed in one place dale farm
They keep appearing on TV pleading and lying.
Ask yourself one question:
Why is there never any men on TV ?
Simple:
They will be recognised by the people they have conned and stolen from, or by Police Officer from all over as being wanted for every offence thinkable.
Why do you believe we should help subsidise these evil people when we have 100's of decent honest young and old folk that need re housing, why should we give 500 Travellers priority over our Local needy.
Sorry as Len Gridley said 'You try living next to them'
Ironman
says...
9:13pm Wed 31 Aug 11
Unfortunately there are none so blind as those that will not see.
PS: has Len G got a fan club?
Altravista
says...
9:29pm Wed 31 Aug 11
Royr
says...
9:32pm Wed 31 Aug 11
PS - what about water cannon!
Discouraged
says...
9:52pm Wed 31 Aug 11
Discouraged
says...
9:52pm Wed 31 Aug 11
Ricayboy
says...
9:58pm Wed 31 Aug 11
Ricayboy
says...
9:59pm Wed 31 Aug 11
andy42
says...
10:14pm Wed 31 Aug 11
John the resonator
says...
10:39pm Wed 31 Aug 11
Naturally, as in any community there will be law breakers and I am against them. But when that is added to people's dislike and disapproval of the travellers I just wonder if they are all being unjustly tarred with the same brush. I am worried that this hatred of outsiders and people with a disapproved of lifestyle, as richly evidenced on here starts with a core of truth, gets repeated, exaggerated and anecdotal accounts then get quoted as evidence.
I also think, given the massive cost and controversy of this eviction it would have been better if some of that money had been spent on providing a legal site, as local authorities used to be required to do and some still do. Surely that would have been better that a costly and possibly bloody outcome.
John the resonator
says...
10:40pm Wed 31 Aug 11
Naturally, as in any community there will be law breakers and I am against them. But when that is added to people's dislike and disapproval of the travellers I just wonder if they are all being unjustly tarred with the same brush. I am worried that this hatred of outsiders and people with a disapproved of lifestyle, as richly evidenced on here starts with a core of truth, gets repeated, exaggerated and anecdotal accounts then get quoted as evidence.
I also think, given the massive cost and controversy of this eviction it would have been better if some of that money had been spent on providing a legal site, as local authorities used to be required to do and some still do. Surely that would have been better that a costly and possibly bloody outcome.
Ironman
says...
10:57pm Wed 31 Aug 11
John the resonator wrote:It's possible John but it's not about all that. It's about trying to get something for nothing. End of.
Whenever I read these traveller stories I am left wondering if the stories of lawlessness are accurate or wildly exaggerated.
Naturally, as in any community there will be law breakers and I am against them. But when that is added to people's dislike and disapproval of the travellers I just wonder if they are all being unjustly tarred with the same brush. I am worried that this hatred of outsiders and people with a disapproved of lifestyle, as richly evidenced on here starts with a core of truth, gets repeated, exaggerated and anecdotal accounts then get quoted as evidence.
I also think, given the massive cost and controversy of this eviction it would have been better if some of that money had been spent on providing a legal site, as local authorities used to be required to do and some still do. Surely that would have been better that a costly and possibly bloody outcome.
It just goes against most peoples idea of fair play.
Why should they get away it. I or you can't and I always thought that we were all equal under the Law.
I don't care what they call themselves, they are here for a purpose ie to ponce, to scrounge, to cheat and to intimidated and soon they must go.
All this bl**ding nonesense about having nowhere to go.....howsabout HOME!
Martynun
says...
11:32pm Wed 31 Aug 11
Ricayboy
says...
11:44pm Wed 31 Aug 11
John the resonator wrote:Hello John, it's nice as always to hear an alternative, reasonable point of view and you make some good points. However, we have to ask why there seem to be very few local people who are standing up for the Travellers. Most of their supporters come from further afield and are not directly affected by their actions. I think that speaks volumes. Perhaps there are some exaggerations going round regarding the Dale Farm site. However, as I have commented before on this forum, I don't believe the Travellers have helped themselves by cutting themselves off in an exclusive gated compound that is off limits to most local people. They haven't contributed to the community nor made any attempt to win the respect of locals. They mention the fact that their children want an education yet it was reported that Crays Hill School has one of the highest truancy rates in Essex. I know for myself and I believe I speak for many others, that it is not a question of disliking the Travellers for being travellers but because they have failed to be good neighbours and seem to feel that living outside mainstream society means that they can break the law with impunity. There seems to be trouble wherever travellers settle in the country - a disproportionate amount considering their relatively small numbers. If this is a minority of travellers, they need to do more to prove to the settled community that they won't tolerate lawbreakers in their midst. After all, unlike many of us they all know one another and know what everybody else is up to.
Whenever I read these traveller stories I am left wondering if the stories of lawlessness are accurate or wildly exaggerated.
Naturally, as in any community there will be law breakers and I am against them. But when that is added to people's dislike and disapproval of the travellers I just wonder if they are all being unjustly tarred with the same brush. I am worried that this hatred of outsiders and people with a disapproved of lifestyle, as richly evidenced on here starts with a core of truth, gets repeated, exaggerated and anecdotal accounts then get quoted as evidence.
I also think, given the massive cost and controversy of this eviction it would have been better if some of that money had been spent on providing a legal site, as local authorities used to be required to do and some still do. Surely that would have been better that a costly and possibly bloody outcome.
What kind of message would it have sent out if Basildon Council just let this slide? I feel that if the Travellers want legal sites they should all pay council tax. The Essex Chronicle website recently posted a comment by a traveller who claimed that he and all his friends refused to pay council tax "because it is used to evict travellers." I don't know if he represents his community as a whole but I wonder who checks up on these things. Of course you get tax evaders from other walks of life as well.
John the resonator
says...
12:11am Thu 1 Sep 11
The main point I am making is simply all these reports of lawlessness - are they accurate or exaggerated because some people have 'an agenda' or believe everything they are told?
When I was a kid we had a Hungarian family move near to us, they were escaping the '56 crackdown following their uprising against communism. Some neighbour decided to warn a couple of children to be careful around them as 'they make naughty children eat a mouse.' Within a couple of days this seemed to become common knowledge and 'fact' about Hungarians, and was, of course utter rubbish. But not to the people who believed it.
Just thinking aloud, that's all.
Ricayboy
says...
12:41am Thu 1 Sep 11
But your thoughtful comments are appreciated.
c.c doorman
says...
1:51am Thu 1 Sep 11
dooley23
says...
6:56am Thu 1 Sep 11
el caballero de la noche
says...
7:17am Thu 1 Sep 11
John the resonator wrote:In answer to you
OK thanks Ricayboy, I expected to get pelted with rotten eggs and probably still will! I agree many of the travellers we have seen on the media set a pretty bad example and don't help their communities image. All the same I want to be as fair as I can and not resort to prejudice.
The main point I am making is simply all these reports of lawlessness - are they accurate or exaggerated because some people have 'an agenda' or believe everything they are told?
When I was a kid we had a Hungarian family move near to us, they were escaping the '56 crackdown following their uprising against communism. Some neighbour decided to warn a couple of children to be careful around them as 'they make naughty children eat a mouse.' Within a couple of days this seemed to become common knowledge and 'fact' about Hungarians, and was, of course utter rubbish. But not to the people who believed it.
Just thinking aloud, that's all.
1. Yes the reports of Lawlessness are accurate however the Police will not tell the truth BUT speak to individual Officers covering that area and they are gob smacked with the amount of trouble and crime these cretins have caused, including several suspicious deaths, slavery,plus tax evasion on a massive scale, I personally know of local traders one being an Electrical Wholesaler who delivered to the site, had his attention diverted and the contents of the van stripped out, and there are plenty of these cases.
Another case personally I was involved in was at a Little Chef where 4 of the Travellers were refusing to pay for their meal and were intimidating the female cashier with threats of violence the cafe was crowded and everyone was too frightened to step in, I decided to try to help the terrified female and was threatened with death however I phoned 999 and Police arrived, the travellers made off just before Police arrival, I know they came from the travellers site because I have seen them there.
Shop staff in Basildon have been terrified by the Travellers again ask any staff in Basildon.
10's of elderly folk have had driveways done badly, plastic gutters and facia's done badly paying huge amounts and then suffered intimidation.
I am just one person I am sure that there is many on this site can give you many many examples.
The travellers are to blame for their woes as they have created all their own problems.
Finally why do we owe them anything ?
Sorry they want to be travellers fine then they should travel or do like we all do act within the law when moving onto land otherwise we will have mayhem with a traveller moving onto your back lawn.
You cannot be reasonable with unreasonable people.
And if any of the 4 Irish gangsters that threatened me and the cashier with death are reading this at last it is our turn and our lawful gang is bigger than your gang you scum bags.
el caballero de la noche
says...
7:18am Thu 1 Sep 11
1. Yes the reports of Lawlessness are accurate however the Police will not tell the truth BUT speak to individual Officers covering that area and they are gob smacked with the amount of trouble and crime these cretins have caused, including several suspicious deaths, slavery,plus tax evasion on a massive scale, I personally know of local traders one being an Electrical Wholesaler who delivered to the site, had his attention diverted and the contents of the van stripped out, and there are plenty of these cases.
Another case personally I was involved in was at a Little Chef where 4 of the Travellers were refusing to pay for their meal and were intimidating the female cashier with threats of violence the cafe was crowded and everyone was too frightened to step in, I decided to try to help the terrified female and was threatened with death however I phoned 999 and Police arrived, the travellers made off just before Police arrival, I know they came from the travellers site because I have seen them there.
Shop staff in Basildon have been terrified by the Travellers again ask any staff in Basildon.
10's of elderly folk have had driveways done badly, plastic gutters and facia's done badly paying huge amounts and then suffered intimidation.
I am just one person I am sure that there is many on this site can give you many many examples.
The travellers are to blame for their woes as they have created all their own problems.
Finally why do we owe them anything ?
Sorry they want to be travellers fine then they should travel or do like we all do act within the law when moving onto land otherwise we will have mayhem with a traveller moving onto your back lawn.
You cannot be reasonable with unreasonable people.
And if any of the 4 Irish gangsters that threatened me and the cashier with death are reading this at last it is our turn and our lawful gang is bigger than your gang you scum bags.
arram
says...
7:51am Thu 1 Sep 11
shallotman
says...
8:32am Thu 1 Sep 11
Ironman
says...
8:53am Thu 1 Sep 11
Deliberate refusal results in eviction if the offending buildings are not removed, especially if the purchase of the land is a cynical attempt to get something for nothing ie buy land cheap, hope to get planning permission by default = land worth a lot of money.
Good try, It hasn't worked.........now go home.
Ricayboy
says...
9:28am Thu 1 Sep 11
Lynny11
says...
10:32am Thu 1 Sep 11
If they want to stay they should use there bundles of tax free illegal earnings to buy a house, then they can pay tax, national insurance and all the other bills the rest of us law abiding people pay. They also de-fraud the benefit system with fake names and fake situations. They don't have morals and don't respect anyone including each other. They have continually terrorising the people in the area and even used local people property and pub garden gardens as toliets. They pop out kid after kid and teach them the same way of life. They don't give themselves any quality of life, so why do they bother! People keep saying they are victimised for being gypsies/travellers. They are not! They are a terrible advertisement for the real gypsies. If I didn't live in the area, i'd say build a massive wall around Dale Farm,pen them in and call it Prison. That's where they all belong.
Lynny11
says...
10:37am Thu 1 Sep 11
Lynny11
says...
10:38am Thu 1 Sep 11
Lynny11
says...
10:39am Thu 1 Sep 11
Lynny11
says...
10:40am Thu 1 Sep 11
Lynny11
says...
10:40am Thu 1 Sep 11
geezer, innit
says...
11:38am Thu 1 Sep 11
Ricayboy wrote:fighting off bailiffs and the Council is obviously deemed 'woman's work' in their 'culture' - after all they probably see it as a job needing doing properly not half ar5ed like the asphalting/guttering
I have also wondered where the men are. You would think at such a crucial time in their community they would be around to defend their wives and children. The defence of Dale Farm seems to be run by women and interfering outsiders.
/fascia business
jayjay1979
says...
12:51pm Thu 1 Sep 11
rochfordfa
says...
1:11pm Thu 1 Sep 11
jayjay1979 wrote:They may OWN the land but they have built properties on that land without planning permission which all decent, law abiding, folk in this country need.
I think you lot should all be ashamed of yourselves, these people OWN this land and they have the right to stay!! i for one back these people, I no longer live in southend but i have a lot of friends that are settled travellers and you know what they are more decent then half of the normall folk, I have never had a problem with travellers i think if you all took 5 minuets out of your life to actually talk to these people you will see that they are also human beings with feelings and emotions!!
Yes, they are human beings with feelings but look at all the people they have caused problems for.
Some "traveller" sites will not be entered by the emergency services without the police being there for fear or threats, injury or criminal damage. I will say there are some sites which are perfectly safe to enter as the occupents of the site know that the emergency services are there to help.
So, jayjay1979, before you go telling the rest of us law abiding citizens that we should be ashamed of ourselves, maybe take off the rose tinited glasses and see the real world.
Steve Horgan
says...
1:25pm Thu 1 Sep 11
One other point, just because you own land does not mean you can do anything you like with it. People would not like it much if their neighbours turned their houses into pubs or lap-dancing clubs or if a business set up an abattoir or a chemical plant in an unsuitable location. Dale Farm is an unsuitable site for a Traveller camp, because it’s in Green Belt and actually for many other planning reasons, including adverse effect it has on the neighbours, in this case the people of Cray's Hill.
Steve Horgan, Deputy Leader, Basildon Borough Council
lurking_spider
says...
3:55pm Thu 1 Sep 11
Their only contributions are crime, litter, anti-social and threatening behaviour.
They have (ab)used the system there to protect genuine victims for their own material gains.
They have cheerfully ruined the area and demanded others foot the bill.
They ignore laws of land usage and planning yet demand protection from the same system of law.
They refuse to pay tax, yet demand a share of tax funded benefits and NHS.
They claim to be penniless and hard up yet drive expensive cars and are never short of cash.
In short they are parasites.
If do-gooding apologists like Vanessa Redgrave can name a single benefit to their illegal occupation of this site, or a single benefit to the community they pillage I would be amazed.
Now finally we get to demand the law we must all obey apply equally to all people of any ethnic origin or presuasion. Stop looking the other way and enforce it. They have had over 10 years to comply, they have placed their old and inform in this position. The responsibility lies with them.
Hugh.Janus
says...
5:22pm Thu 1 Sep 11
Max Impact
says...
6:08pm Thu 1 Sep 11
jayjay1979 wrote:If your so sorry for them being evected why not let them pitch a caravan or twin in your front/back garden or driveway, they could run a lead from your house to the caravan for power and run a hose for water, that way they sill hace somewhere to stay safe and sound.
I think you lot should all be ashamed of yourselves, these people OWN this land and they have the right to stay!! i for one back these people, I no longer live in southend but i have a lot of friends that are settled travellers and you know what they are more decent then half of the normall folk, I have never had a problem with travellers i think if you all took 5 minuets out of your life to actually talk to these people you will see that they are also human beings with feelings and emotions!!
Oh we're going to
says...
6:35pm Thu 1 Sep 11
The usual do-gooders and the aggrieved aired their views but especially a traveller woman named Michelle from Dale farm spouted the most nonsense I had ever heard.
.
Here's the link >>>
.
http://www.bbc.co.uk
/iplayer/console/p00
js0t8
.
And the comedy act starts at 1:33:45
ravenmorpheus
says...
6:43pm Thu 1 Sep 11
It's funny how the majority of these so called "travellers" are what used to be called Irish Tinkers.
Is Ireland not good enough for them?
Are they unwelcome there?
I think the answer to "where do we go" is quite simple...
c.c doorman
says...
6:44pm Thu 1 Sep 11
onegreatjohnny
says...
11:11pm Thu 1 Sep 11
As if that's not been done before by 'settled' folk on the green belt.
It failed but gypsies on Dale Farm will continue.
Who's won? ... they need more pitches is all ... maybe this way they'll get them.
This is a pyrrhic victory for the gloating no question.
Nebs
says...
2:51am Fri 2 Sep 11
John the resonator
says...
8:29am Fri 2 Sep 11
Nebs wrote:Quite right. Regardless of whichever side of the debate I fall on I feel comparisons to ethnic cleansing, one of the most chilling phrases to come out of the 20th century do great disrespect to those who have been persecuted, suffered and died under such regimes.
Who is the person holding the placard about ethnic cleansing? To compare the removal of these people with ethnic cleansing is offensive.
Etnic cleansing does not describe this stuation at all. The authorities have been about applying the rule of law and giving people a chance, something the perpetrators of 'ethnic cleansing' never did.
Local Laddy
says...
10:49am Fri 2 Sep 11
liberace
says...
10:58am Fri 2 Sep 11
c.c doorman
says...
1:10pm Fri 2 Sep 11
automan
says...
2:05pm Fri 2 Sep 11
BLOODY GOOD RIDDANCE
APR
says...
3:51pm Fri 2 Sep 11
Oh we're going to wrote:It highlighted another big problem amongst the "traveller" community.
Sadie Nine on BBC radio Essex had quite a phone-in today.
The usual do-gooders and the aggrieved aired their views but especially a traveller woman named Michelle from Dale farm spouted the most nonsense I had ever heard.
.
Here's the link >>>
.
http://www.bbc.co.uk
/iplayer/console/p00
js0t8
.
And the comedy act starts at 1:33:45
The majority of them are totally illiterate.
Mary Lou
says...
7:20am Sat 3 Sep 11
.
We are not hypocrites, but by your posts your own personal values are seriously out of kilter with the law abiding society you so denegrate.
.
The liberal lefties are all for human rights and diversity until reality impacts upon them. Then they scream loud and clear for justice and the Law.
.
Joan Bakewell was on R4s any questions and simpered a load of rubbish about the rights of GTs and what a wonderful community they are. But she doesn't have a GT site next to where she lives, does she.
Mary Lou
says...
7:21am Sat 3 Sep 11
.
We are not hypocrites, but by your posts your own personal values are seriously out of kilter with the law abiding society you so denegrate.
.
The liberal lefties are all for human rights and diversity until reality impacts upon them. Then they scream loud and clear for justice and the Law.
.
Joan Bakewell was on R4s any questions and simpered a load of rubbish about the rights of GTs and what a wonderful community they are. But she doesn't have a GT site next to where she lives, does she.
Kim Gandy
says...
10:43am Sat 3 Sep 11
As for the "sick people"... seen them as well, at hearings, they hobble in with a stick then during the lunchtime recess they prance around town like Louis Spence on speed.
Fakes, the lot of em... and they HAVE got homes to go to - mansions in southern Ireland, homes in Spain and council houses in Wolverhampton, not to mention the houses they were offered by Basildon.
But they seem to have a problem with the concept of the word "traveller". They don't want to travel so why not accept a house.
Except of course the rest of us would be paying for that too.
The only way we DON'T continue to pay for these people is when they have gone for good.
They have taken everything and contributed nothing. If they HAD integrated, paid their way and contributed to the quality of life in Crays Hill, they might have found more decent people on their side instead of a bunch of soap dodging university scruffs who have absolutely zero idea of real life.
ItscalledspinIcallitlying
says...
10:44am Sat 3 Sep 11
From what I've seen and read I have found the most objectionable people are the vitriolic supporters of turfing families out of their homes.
Kim Gandy
says...
10:46am Sat 3 Sep 11
If you are so fond of these people OFFER THEM LAND ADJACENT TO YOUR HOME FOR A MINIMUM OF TEN YEARS.. GO ON, PUT YOUR MONEY WHERE YOUR MEALY LEFT WING MOUTHS ARE...
You're all very good at telling the rest of us how to do it, so YOU have a go..
Kim Gandy
says...
10:50am Sat 3 Sep 11
If you are a leftie and are about to start bashing me, put a sock in it because your opinions count for NOTHING UNLESS YOU have experienced this first hand.
Living among them does not qualify because for the lefties who go to "live among them" and study, they put on their best behaviour,.
Living ALONGSIDE them is a totally different matter.
The only views that really count are those who have experienced living near them, encountered them in local shops etc etc...
If you have no opinion other than that based on what you READ and you are a leftie - sorry mate... It doesn't count.
John the resonator
says...
2:35pm Sat 3 Sep 11
Kim Gandy wrote:I think the problem with your position Kim Gandy is that it is basically undemocratic. You are telling people to shut up before they have written and dismissing the views of anyone who has not lived there as not counting as coming from 'a lefty'. Not exactly conducive to a healthy respectful discussion in my view. The irony is that shouting people down is something of which 'lefies' are often accused. Incidentally Lord Avebury is a Lib Dem peer, albeit no doubt on the left of his party.
...and before the Bleeding Hearts tune up ..I am a former resident of Crays Hill and former school governor there who saw what REALLY went on in that village: saw, heard and EXPERIENCED for six years.
If you are a leftie and are about to start bashing me, put a sock in it because your opinions count for NOTHING UNLESS YOU have experienced this first hand.
Living among them does not qualify because for the lefties who go to "live among them" and study, they put on their best behaviour,.
Living ALONGSIDE them is a totally different matter.
The only views that really count are those who have experienced living near them, encountered them in local shops etc etc...
If you have no opinion other than that based on what you READ and you are a leftie - sorry mate... It doesn't count.
I have written this before but I will state again I do not admire the criminal element of the travellers while at the same time wondering if they are all being tarred with the same brush because of some undoubted law breakers. Similar things happen on here e.g. when a motorcyclist is in an accident or an immigrant commits a crime. The comments suggest everyone in those categories are up to no good.
I despair at the cost of this proposed eviction and really wonder if a perfectly good legal site could have been provided at the start for a fraction of the cost without any of the ill-will that now attends this whole situation.
I do not subscribe to the Nazi analogies which sometimes crop up here or the references to 'ethnic cleansing,' feeling these are insulting to those who suffered under such regimes (including my own family) and do not describe this situation.
However we now seem to be in a very negative situation and of course if the eviction goes ahead it could well just displace the whole issue somewhere else.
Don't think I am brave enough to put money on it but I rather doubt this eviction will go ahead.
Oh we're going to
says...
3:08pm Sat 3 Sep 11
John the resonator says...
2:35pm Sat 3 Sep 11
I despair at the cost of this proposed eviction and really wonder if a perfectly good legal site could have been provided at the start for a fraction of the cost without any of the ill-will that now attends this whole situation.
.
John it's only going to cost so much because the travellers are defying the court order. It is inevitable that they will be evicted, so why don't they go peacefully? No, instead they set up this camp constant nonsense and invite the great unwashed!
.
And why should we provide them with a legal site? They will only trash it and set-up camp in another field somewhere.
.
We owe them nothing, they have taken everything without a penny in return. The menfolk are nowhere to be seen because of their criminal activities.
.
Stop the bleeding heart please, you're making yourself out to be a complete knob!
ItscalledspinIcallitlying
says...
4:38pm Sat 3 Sep 11
Oh we're going to wrote:It is going to cost so much because the council won't provide alternative acceptable accommodation.
John the resonator says...
2:35pm Sat 3 Sep 11
I despair at the cost of this proposed eviction and really wonder if a perfectly good legal site could have been provided at the start for a fraction of the cost without any of the ill-will that now attends this whole situation.
.
John it's only going to cost so much because the travellers are defying the court order. It is inevitable that they will be evicted, so why don't they go peacefully? No, instead they set up this camp constant nonsense and invite the great unwashed!
.
And why should we provide them with a legal site? They will only trash it and set-up camp in another field somewhere.
.
We owe them nothing, they have taken everything without a penny in return. The menfolk are nowhere to be seen because of their criminal activities.
.
Stop the bleeding heart please, you're making yourself out to be a complete knob!
The Travellers affected have clearly stated they would move in an instant if acceptable alternative accommodation was found.
Legal sites should be provided because we all have a right to have somewhere to live. In fact, it is due to this legal right being withdrawn that Travellers now find themselves in situations like this.
I find your comment about the "great unwashed" distasteful and insulting based only on the fact that you feel only your opinion is a valid one.
I am struggling to see where "they have taken everything without a penny in return" and why you have assumed the position of arbiter in some fantasy decision making powers you believe you have.
If you have information about criminality then please take your accusations along with the evidence to the police instead of throwing around random generalised statements turning your opinion into some sort of fact.
Interesting that you choose to describe those objecting to the eviction of families with children a 'bleeding hearts'.
From what I gather from reading your post and many others like it full of vitriol for your fellow beings I would class the likes of you as very undesirable and I feel sorry for those Travellers that have to put up with such people as neighbours.
Here's hoping you never find yourself and your family facing eviction with nowhere to go because the great unwashed bleeding hearts will still turn up to support you and it will be mighty embarrassing to see you turn them away on a matter of principle.
Good day to you and maybe we'll bump into each other next week when I come to support your more decent neighbours next week.
APR
says...
5:50pm Sat 3 Sep 11
lying says...
4:38pm Sat 3 Sep 11
The Travellers affected have clearly stated they would move in an instant if acceptable alternative accommodation was found....."
.
Why do the council need to find accommodation for people who already own property elsewhere ?
ItscalledspinIcallitlying
says...
6:40pm Sat 3 Sep 11
APR wrote:Don't be silly and stop trying to pass off your fantasy nonsense as fact.
ItscalledspinIcallit
lying says...
4:38pm Sat 3 Sep 11
The Travellers affected have clearly stated they would move in an instant if acceptable alternative accommodation was found....."
.
Why do the council need to find accommodation for people who already own property elsewhere ?
c.c doorman
says...
8:13pm Sat 3 Sep 11
John the resonator
says...
10:09pm Sat 3 Sep 11
HITLER WAS RIGHT !!Oh well, thanks at least for proving however much I think I have read everything on here, I haven't really.
Got any more like that up your sleeve, a celebration of Stalin's foreign policy maybe or perhaps a favourable character reference for Muammar Gaddafi?
ItscalledspinIcallitlying
says...
10:13pm Sat 3 Sep 11
c.c doorman wrote:YU SUPORT THE EXTIRMANASHION OV 1,500,000 MEN WIMIN AND CHILDRIN??
LOL THE DO AS YA LIKEYS HAVE BEEN GIVEN LEGAL SITES BEFORE THEY TRASHED THEM AND DESTROYED THEM IE THE ONE OPPOSITE THEM ON BURNT MILLS !!THEN THEY LET SOME OV EM STAY AT HOVEFIELDS MADE THEIR PLOTS LEGAL WHAT DID THEY DO ?? SOLD EM FOR BIG MONEY ANDD MOVED IN2 THE FIELD NEXT DOOR AND TRIED TO DO IT ALL OVER AGAIN PARASITES ON THE BACK OV SOCIETY !! SLING EM OFF AND HOUND EM OUT OV ENGLAND WHEN THEY STOP MOVE EM ON !! POLICE CHECK THEIR MOTORS AND CONFISCATE DODDGY ONES !! THESE ARE NOT ROMANY GYPSYS BUT PIKEYS DIRTY IRISH PIKEYS THE ROMANYS CANT STAND EM EITHER !!THEY ARE NOT A RACE THEY ARE LAW BREAKERS THAT DONT UNDERSTAND THE LAW YES THEY DID BUY THEIR LAND AND THEY KNEW **** WELL IT WAS DONKEY GRAZING LAND !! BUT THEY TOOK THE **** AS USUAL IT IS THEIR LAND BUT THEIR ARE RULES AND THEY CLEARLY BROKE EM SO AWAY YE PIKEY SCUM !! WE HAVE NO RESPONCEBILITY TOO HOUSE THIS SHOWER OV **** THEY WILL ONLY DESTROY GOOD HOUSES .. HITLER WAS RIGHT !! SCUM SCUM SCUM !!
YU SOUND LIKE THE SORT OV PERSON IM GLAD DUSNT LIV IN MI AREA.
PS IT WUZ THE ROMA WAT GOT EXTERMANATID UNDER YOR HERO HITLA YU COMPLEET TERRY FCUKWIT.
ItscalledspinIcallitlying
says...
10:18pm Sat 3 Sep 11
Local Laddy wrote:I wonder why people like you wonder and then bother posting it as if it resembles some sort of factual situation?
I wonder what the total cost is that these these law breakers have cost society by living illegally, compared to what they contribute to society?
I wonder whether your attitude towards others is a result of you being interfered with as a child by your family?
Easy and fun isn't it?
Ironman
says...
10:44pm Sat 3 Sep 11
ItscalledspinIcallitWe can only wonder and ask rhetorical questions because those who have the answers will not share them.
lying wrote:
Local Laddy wrote:I wonder why people like you wonder and then bother posting it as if it resembles some sort of factual situation?
I wonder what the total cost is that these these law breakers have cost society by living illegally, compared to what they contribute to society?
I wonder whether your attitude towards others is a result of you being interfered with as a child by your family?
Easy and fun isn't it?
Questions that need answering:-
electricity? water? council tax? benefits? dole money? Income Tax? etc, etc
If we are paying, I think we should know.
hogsowar
says...
11:55pm Sat 3 Sep 11
ItscalledspinIcallitlying
says...
12:00am Sun 4 Sep 11
Ironman wrote:Are you going to ask about everyone in the country or just this small group of people? To be honest mate, just because you pay tax it doesn't give you any rights to make demands from anyone, it doesn't work like that. Why would you wish to single out this group of people to ask in particular and no one else?
ItscalledspinIcallitWe can only wonder and ask rhetorical questions because those who have the answers will not share them.
lying wrote:
Local Laddy wrote:I wonder why people like you wonder and then bother posting it as if it resembles some sort of factual situation?
I wonder what the total cost is that these these law breakers have cost society by living illegally, compared to what they contribute to society?
I wonder whether your attitude towards others is a result of you being interfered with as a child by your family?
Easy and fun isn't it?
Questions that need answering:-
electricity? water? council tax? benefits? dole money? Income Tax? etc, etc
If we are paying, I think we should know.
I have a sneaky feeling you have fallen for the stereotyping thing.
How do we know you pay your way? I think we should demand answers and ask the authorities to give us your financial details so we can check you out.
ps who are these mythical people who won't share answers with you? As if you have the right to demand any in any case. Maybe you have delusions of grandeur?
ItscalledspinIcallitlying
says...
12:04am Sun 4 Sep 11
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...............ESSEX
!!
ItscalledspinIcallitlying
says...
12:06am Sun 4 Sep 11
hogsowar wrote:How the fcuk do you know?!?! Stop making up sh1t to support your irrational prejudices.
I've seen this many times before both here and in Ireland. Nothing new. They are like Locust.. Strip everything bare then sod off to pastures new.. Oh yes they do have property in Eire and elsewhere..Won't tell you that thought will they..
Mary Lou
says...
1:20pm Sun 4 Sep 11
ItscalledspinIcallitAre you a socialist worker supporter?
lying wrote:
hogsowar wrote: I've seen this many times before both here and in Ireland. Nothing new. They are like Locust.. Strip everything bare then sod off to pastures new.. Oh yes they do have property in Eire and elsewhere..Won't tell you that thought will they..How the fcuk do you know?!?! Stop making up sh1t to support your irrational prejudices.
.
Full time anarchist on benefits?
.
GT about to have their site cleared?
.
Answer on post please.
ItscalledspinIcallitlying
says...
5:23pm Sun 4 Sep 11
Mary Lou wrote:Would it make your argument more valid and mine lees so if you could 'negatively' label me?
ItscalledspinIcallitAre you a socialist worker supporter?
lying wrote:
hogsowar wrote: I've seen this many times before both here and in Ireland. Nothing new. They are like Locust.. Strip everything bare then sod off to pastures new.. Oh yes they do have property in Eire and elsewhere..Won't tell you that thought will they..How the fcuk do you know?!?! Stop making up sh1t to support your irrational prejudices.
.
Full time anarchist on benefits?
.
GT about to have their site cleared?
.
Answer on post please.
Ok, I'll help you out as you obviously feel your argument isn't strong enough to stand up on it's own two feet.
Socialist Workers Party = Trot w4nkers.
Anarchists = Middle class w4nkers.
I am a full time tax paying worker who has worked since leaving school nearly 30 years ago.
I am lucky enough to own my own home allowing my children to attend school and have some stability in their lives.
I guess I probably out trump you on the tax paying stakes so demand to know your personal financial situation so I can check out whether you are legit or not.
Answers on a post please.
ItscalledspinIcallitlying
says...
5:28pm Sun 4 Sep 11
Greatscot1777
says...
6:47pm Sun 4 Sep 11
If I had a car with no tax or MOT, refused to pay my council tax, I would be prosecuted. If I did not pay income tax and still claimed state benefits even though I had money and a job , I would be etc. Now I am all for respecting the rights of minorities, but how about those minorities respecting the country they are in and the community who'es services they use.
If I pulled this stunt in Ireland I would be fined/imprisoned/run out of the country by the locals. I don't want to persecute a minority I just want equal rights and responsibilities. I believe it was one called living in a fair society?
ItscalledspinIcallitlying
says...
6:59pm Sun 4 Sep 11
If you have evidence that any of this is happening then please report it to the police with your evidence. I have a sneaky feeling though that you have no such evidence and are just blindly following the tired old stereotyping without a shred of evidence.
It's easy to make accusation but without anything to back it up it should be treated as nothing more than a figment of your prejudiced imagination.
It's time to put up or shut up instead of throwing around fantasy accusations without any evidence.
Is it true that your partner has been having a gay affair? I heard it was.
Community services are not the sole domain of you or any particular section of the community, they are for all the community. You talk as if you have some sort of special status over others in the community. They also pay for their and your services.
How about this for equal rights, the right to have somewhere to live? Do you have somewhere to live?
timmus
says...
10:12pm Sun 4 Sep 11
Mary Lou
says...
6:38am Mon 5 Sep 11
tlying" your'e just another internet Troll stirring up the masses.
Mary Lou
says...
7:00am Mon 5 Sep 11
.
1. The GTs would have to pay the fees.
.
2. The sites would not allow the GTs to dump their rubiish there.
.
3. The sites would not allow the noise and disruption that Gts create.
.
So the problem is not a a lack of caravan sites, it is the GTs themselves. They want a No-Go area that is a tax and law free haven and that is what they have in Dale Farm.
ShipShape
says...
8:59am Mon 5 Sep 11
lying.
I might have listened to some of the things you have to say, but the nasty and personal abuse puts me off.
We've enough nastiness around here, we don't need any more, please stay safely at home and let our communities sort out our own differences.
DCLEIGH
says...
9:24am Mon 5 Sep 11
All that is needed is a three pronged attack.
1. Designate that land as a Nature reserve or a SSI and watch the hippies descend to protect the wildlife.
2. Give it over to a hospice.
3. Make people aware of the political and religious affiliations of the lawbreakers.
The bias with which this matter is being reported is breathtaking.
The reporting is only designed to foment trouble in order that more and more headlines can sell papers.
rochfordfa
says...
10:13am Mon 5 Sep 11
The eviction of travellers from the UK's largest illegal site will take place during the week commencing 19 September, the BBC has learned.
ItscalledspinIcallitlying
says...
1:22pm Mon 5 Sep 11
ItscalledspinIcallitlying
says...
1:25pm Mon 5 Sep 11
ShipShape wrote:It's deliberately designed to mirror the behaviour and attitudes being shown on here in the hope that posters on the recieving end might better understand what it's like to be on the receiving end of their personal hatred and abuse.
ItscalledspinIcallit lying. I might have listened to some of the things you have to say, but the nasty and personal abuse puts me off. We've enough nastiness around here, we don't need any more, please stay safely at home and let our communities sort out our own differences.
If they can dish it out........
ItscalledspinIcallitlying
says...
1:25pm Mon 5 Sep 11
Mary Lou wrote:Dishing out more negative labels I see.
So "ItscalledspinI
calli tlying" your'e just another internet Troll stirring up the masses.
ItscalledspinIcallitlying
says...
1:27pm Mon 5 Sep 11
Mary Lou wrote:You really need to do a little more research before castigating people.
There are hundreds of legal caravan sites across the UK. Just pop into Smiths and pick up a guide. So what's the problem? . 1. The GTs would have to pay the fees. . 2. The sites would not allow the GTs to dump their rubiish there. . 3. The sites would not allow the noise and disruption that Gts create. . So the problem is not a a lack of caravan sites, it is the GTs themselves. They want a No-Go area that is a tax and law free haven and that is what they have in Dale Farm.
leigh-my-town
says...
5:01pm Mon 5 Sep 11
ItscalledspinIcallitlying
says...
6:53pm Mon 5 Sep 11
leigh-my-town wrote:What makes you think permanent sites don't already do this? I assume that you are also proposing that with these payments those that live there will also get the same level of service the rest of us get?
Let's let these people stay but while doing this let's impose equal rights as those in the surround area by making the occupiers pay water rates, council charges and all the other charges that come with fixed settlement!!!! Otherwise they will have to build a wall around the place and we can designate it a illegal halting facility which can take in all the oversea illegals too.
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Ricayboy says...
4:05pm Wed 31 Aug 11