Speed bumps for rat run road in Leigh

Echo: Lib Dem councillors Graham Longley and Duncan Russell Lib Dem councillors Graham Longley and Duncan Russell

SPEED bumps could be added to a rat run road following a campaign by exasperated residents.

Chiefs at Southend Council are planning to introduce traffic calming measures in Broomfield Avenue, Leigh, to stop crafty motorists using it as a short cut to the A127.

The problem sparked a campaign for changes, led by Liberal Democrat leader Graham Longley, and the road has now been added to the authority’s “to do” list.

Mr Longley said: "It's been a real issue which has been reported by many people.

"There are a number of points in the road where drivers have lost control and ended up hitting people's property."

Timothy Goodwin, 47, has lived in the street for seven years.

He said: “It’s been noticeable for a long time, especially around rush hour.

“A lot of people use it as a quick way onto the A127 when they’re coming from Westcliff or the town centre.

“Cars really get a lot of speed up coming down the hill.”

A request for changes was submitted by Mr Longley last summer.

Council officers decided to act after setting up devices to measure the average speed of vehicles in the road.

The results showed nearly one in five breached the 30mph limit.

According to official records, there have also been five accidents in the road, including one child who suffered severe injuries when struck by a vehicle while on foot.

Adding the street to the council’s priority list means it will be bumped to the front of the queue for traffic calming measures when funding becomes available.

However, the idea has been criticised by Labour councillor Julian Ware-Lane, who represents Milton, but lives in Mr Longley’s ward - Blenheim Park.

Writing on his blog, he accused residents of claiming “exclusive” use of the road.

He added: “If a route suddenly becomes popular, I cannot see why this should see traffic calming, invariably involving some kind of speed hump, installed.

“I profess an intense dislike for speed humps anyway.

“By all means take measures to ensure the rule of law is upheld by car users, but do not attempt to make your road unusable.”

Comments (76)

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8:23am Mon 7 Jan 13

Russ13 says...

"Crafty motorists"..... Seriously!!!

It is a ROAD, provided you've paid your VED, insurance, have a valid license and MOT why the hell shouldn't you be able to use any part of the public highway?

If some motorists are exceeding the advertised speed limit then that needs to be dealt with but the residents have no right whatsoever to discourage people from using it!
"Crafty motorists"..... Seriously!!! It is a ROAD, provided you've paid your VED, insurance, have a valid license and MOT why the hell shouldn't you be able to use any part of the public highway? If some motorists are exceeding the advertised speed limit then that needs to be dealt with but the residents have no right whatsoever to discourage people from using it! Russ13

8:34am Mon 7 Jan 13

notinwestcliffanymore says...

Maybe if the traffic light phasing at kent elms was better in regards to right turns from both bridgewater and rayleigh road there would be no need for this "rat run"
Maybe if the traffic light phasing at kent elms was better in regards to right turns from both bridgewater and rayleigh road there would be no need for this "rat run" notinwestcliffanymore

8:47am Mon 7 Jan 13

Barry Bas says...

It's Saint and Greavsie isn't it?
It's Saint and Greavsie isn't it? Barry Bas

9:01am Mon 7 Jan 13

Nebs says...

I never even knew that you could get through that way. Just checked it out on google maps and it looks to be a great way to miss the lights at the A127 and Bridgewater Drive. Thanks Echo, I will use it in future.
I never even knew that you could get through that way. Just checked it out on google maps and it looks to be a great way to miss the lights at the A127 and Bridgewater Drive. Thanks Echo, I will use it in future. Nebs

9:23am Mon 7 Jan 13

Brunning999 says...

Tweedledum and tweedledee
Tweedledum and tweedledee Brunning999

9:29am Mon 7 Jan 13

Shoebury_Cyclist says...

Russ13 wrote:
"Crafty motorists"..... Seriously!!!

It is a ROAD, provided you've paid your VED, insurance, have a valid license and MOT why the hell shouldn't you be able to use any part of the public highway?

If some motorists are exceeding the advertised speed limit then that needs to be dealt with but the residents have no right whatsoever to discourage people from using it!
Precisely. Deal with the speeders. Roads are for universal public use, with the exception of motorways.
[quote][p][bold]Russ13[/bold] wrote: "Crafty motorists"..... Seriously!!! It is a ROAD, provided you've paid your VED, insurance, have a valid license and MOT why the hell shouldn't you be able to use any part of the public highway? If some motorists are exceeding the advertised speed limit then that needs to be dealt with but the residents have no right whatsoever to discourage people from using it![/p][/quote]Precisely. Deal with the speeders. Roads are for universal public use, with the exception of motorways. Shoebury_Cyclist

9:40am Mon 7 Jan 13

fletch12107 says...

"Official records show there has been five accidents in the road" Over what period of time?
"Official records show there has been five accidents in the road" Over what period of time? fletch12107

10:10am Mon 7 Jan 13

leighman says...

Barry Bas wrote:
It's Saint and Greavsie isn't it?
More like Cox and Evans of Vic Reeves fame!
[quote][p][bold]Barry Bas[/bold] wrote: It's Saint and Greavsie isn't it?[/p][/quote]More like Cox and Evans of Vic Reeves fame! leighman

10:14am Mon 7 Jan 13

drofmor1 says...

crafty motorists using it as a shortcut to the a127...no its a motorist using the quickest route for their journey. Its a road and that's what drivers do...drive down roads!!!! I remember years ago someone moaning in the Echo that the residents of Shoebury were using Station Road in Thorpe Bay as a rat run to Southend when they should use the seafront. Why should anyone use the seafront road if they want to use the other main road into town. People you own your houses but not the road outside. Now if its speeding motorists you want slowing down thats a different matter,catch them and fine them but don't ban them just because they use the road.
crafty motorists using it as a shortcut to the a127...no its a motorist using the quickest route for their journey. Its a road and that's what drivers do...drive down roads!!!! I remember years ago someone moaning in the Echo that the residents of Shoebury were using Station Road in Thorpe Bay as a rat run to Southend when they should use the seafront. Why should anyone use the seafront road if they want to use the other main road into town. People you own your houses but not the road outside. Now if its speeding motorists you want slowing down thats a different matter,catch them and fine them but don't ban them just because they use the road. drofmor1

10:17am Mon 7 Jan 13

asbo. just the truth says...

speedbumps do not deter motorists from using a road. they will do anything to avoid badly phased lights.
speedbumps do not deter motorists from using a road. they will do anything to avoid badly phased lights. asbo. just the truth

10:25am Mon 7 Jan 13

Test Tickle says...

“Cars really get a lot of speed up coming down the hill.”

What hill? Broomfield avenue is virtually flat, is this guy for real.

Is it speeding that is the problem or it's use as a Rat run, if speeding is the problem then put up speed cameras, after all is that not what they are for?, no need to waste money with speed humps which just serve to annoy drivers and cause damage to the underside of lower cars, not to mention do nothing to slow down motorcycles!

As for the term Rat run, well I was always lead to believe a road was used to get from point A to point B, or are we only meant to travel along main roads now?, no of course we are not.

To sum up...waste of time and money as usual!!!!!
“Cars really get a lot of speed up coming down the hill.” What hill? Broomfield avenue is virtually flat, is this guy for real. Is it speeding that is the problem or it's use as a Rat run, if speeding is the problem then put up speed cameras, after all is that not what they are for?, no need to waste money with speed humps which just serve to annoy drivers and cause damage to the underside of lower cars, not to mention do nothing to slow down motorcycles! As for the term Rat run, well I was always lead to believe a road was used to get from point A to point B, or are we only meant to travel along main roads now?, no of course we are not. To sum up...waste of time and money as usual!!!!! Test Tickle

10:59am Mon 7 Jan 13

seasider1965 says...

Well any excuse for Longley to get his photo in the Echo.
Well any excuse for Longley to get his photo in the Echo. seasider1965

11:02am Mon 7 Jan 13

maxell says...

As with everthing its a cost excersise, if the councils can keep as many motorist on the main drag, "its better for them", if any shortcut or other road come to that, that takes a heaver load then in time it to will be up for repairs, councils cant cope with the pot holes now , imagine if it not just the main drags and all other roads that need repairs. and once humps are installed, the speed limit on that road still applies, so you should still be able to drive a constant 30mph (if that is the road designated speed) without the fear of damaging your suspention. Residents will soon change their minds once they hear the noise, that is genarated by vehicles braking and accelarating, outside your house. you can hardly blame drivers from finding alternative routes , I belive it was the councils that have had road traffic surveys carried out, when studying the effect of increased traffic to the airport, I am sure that the result was there would be no adverse effect to traverling times, desk top simulations seem to not always be correct it would seem.
As with everthing its a cost excersise, if the councils can keep as many motorist on the main drag, "its better for them", if any shortcut or other road come to that, that takes a heaver load then in time it to will be up for repairs, councils cant cope with the pot holes now , imagine if it not just the main drags and all other roads that need repairs. and once humps are installed, the speed limit on that road still applies, so you should still be able to drive a constant 30mph (if that is the road designated speed) without the fear of damaging your suspention. Residents will soon change their minds once they hear the noise, that is genarated by vehicles braking and accelarating, outside your house. you can hardly blame drivers from finding alternative routes , I belive it was the councils that have had road traffic surveys carried out, when studying the effect of increased traffic to the airport, I am sure that the result was there would be no adverse effect to traverling times, desk top simulations seem to not always be correct it would seem. maxell

11:37am Mon 7 Jan 13

I See It All says...

Nebs wrote:
I never even knew that you could get through that way. Just checked it out on google maps and it looks to be a great way to miss the lights at the A127 and Bridgewater Drive. Thanks Echo, I will use it in future.
Same here.
Thanks for the tip Echo.
Should get our valued LibDem councillors sucking lemons if enough of us do it.
[quote][p][bold]Nebs[/bold] wrote: I never even knew that you could get through that way. Just checked it out on google maps and it looks to be a great way to miss the lights at the A127 and Bridgewater Drive. Thanks Echo, I will use it in future.[/p][/quote]Same here. Thanks for the tip Echo. Should get our valued LibDem councillors sucking lemons if enough of us do it. I See It All

11:40am Mon 7 Jan 13

Eric Whim says...

do a Dr Beeching and close all but the most main roads.....
do a Dr Beeching and close all but the most main roads..... Eric Whim

12:27pm Mon 7 Jan 13

notinwestcliffanymore says...

Nebs wrote:
I never even knew that you could get through that way. Just checked it out on google maps and it looks to be a great way to miss the lights at the A127 and Bridgewater Drive. Thanks Echo, I will use it in future.
Due to the problems and danger of turning right from rayleigh road onto the 127 i go straight across up bridgwater drive , right onto hurst way (as a rat run) and onto mountdale gardens, much better than being left sitting in the middle of the 127 hoping for a gap.
[quote][p][bold]Nebs[/bold] wrote: I never even knew that you could get through that way. Just checked it out on google maps and it looks to be a great way to miss the lights at the A127 and Bridgewater Drive. Thanks Echo, I will use it in future.[/p][/quote]Due to the problems and danger of turning right from rayleigh road onto the 127 i go straight across up bridgwater drive , right onto hurst way (as a rat run) and onto mountdale gardens, much better than being left sitting in the middle of the 127 hoping for a gap. notinwestcliffanymore

12:27pm Mon 7 Jan 13

eddicaine says...

I use this road every day coming from Dulverton Avenue and have never driven down a hill yet. NEARLY 1 in 5 breach the speed limit, says who?? the residents?. An accident involving a young girl is reported but no facts to the cause of the accident reported. This is a public road to be used by all and sundry not just the locals
I use this road every day coming from Dulverton Avenue and have never driven down a hill yet. NEARLY 1 in 5 breach the speed limit, says who?? the residents?. An accident involving a young girl is reported but no facts to the cause of the accident reported. This is a public road to be used by all and sundry not just the locals eddicaine

12:44pm Mon 7 Jan 13

Nebs says...

eddicaine wrote:
I use this road every day coming from Dulverton Avenue and have never driven down a hill yet. NEARLY 1 in 5 breach the speed limit, says who?? the residents?. An accident involving a young girl is reported but no facts to the cause of the accident reported. This is a public road to be used by all and sundry not just the locals
If there are so many accidents, perhaps the council should put double yellow lines the length of the road.
[quote][p][bold]eddicaine[/bold] wrote: I use this road every day coming from Dulverton Avenue and have never driven down a hill yet. NEARLY 1 in 5 breach the speed limit, says who?? the residents?. An accident involving a young girl is reported but no facts to the cause of the accident reported. This is a public road to be used by all and sundry not just the locals[/p][/quote]If there are so many accidents, perhaps the council should put double yellow lines the length of the road. Nebs

12:46pm Mon 7 Jan 13

asbo. just the truth says...

statler and waldorf. people actually voted for these muppets...democracy'
s not always a good thing.
statler and waldorf. people actually voted for these muppets...democracy' s not always a good thing. asbo. just the truth

12:52pm Mon 7 Jan 13

pembury53 says...

Russ13 wrote:
"Crafty motorists"..... Seriously!!! It is a ROAD, provided you've paid your VED, insurance, have a valid license and MOT why the hell shouldn't you be able to use any part of the public highway? If some motorists are exceeding the advertised speed limit then that needs to be dealt with but the residents have no right whatsoever to discourage people from using it!
Absolutely right...

'crafty motorist' = normal use of the queens highway by people who have paid to do so

'rat run' = normal use of the queens highway by people who have paid to do so

The real 'crafty' one's here are those trying to get effective private residential road status by whinning on about safety. Scrub lane in Hadleigh and Tattersal Gardens etc are classic examples of the same.....
[quote][p][bold]Russ13[/bold] wrote: "Crafty motorists"..... Seriously!!! It is a ROAD, provided you've paid your VED, insurance, have a valid license and MOT why the hell shouldn't you be able to use any part of the public highway? If some motorists are exceeding the advertised speed limit then that needs to be dealt with but the residents have no right whatsoever to discourage people from using it![/p][/quote]Absolutely right... 'crafty motorist' = normal use of the queens highway by people who have paid to do so 'rat run' = normal use of the queens highway by people who have paid to do so The real 'crafty' one's here are those trying to get effective private residential road status by whinning on about safety. Scrub lane in Hadleigh and Tattersal Gardens etc are classic examples of the same..... pembury53

1:42pm Mon 7 Jan 13

Shoebury_Cyclist says...

pembury53 wrote:
Russ13 wrote:
"Crafty motorists"..... Seriously!!! It is a ROAD, provided you've paid your VED, insurance, have a valid license and MOT why the hell shouldn't you be able to use any part of the public highway? If some motorists are exceeding the advertised speed limit then that needs to be dealt with but the residents have no right whatsoever to discourage people from using it!
Absolutely right...

'crafty motorist' = normal use of the queens highway by people who have paid to do so

'rat run' = normal use of the queens highway by people who have paid to do so

The real 'crafty' one's here are those trying to get effective private residential road status by whinning on about safety. Scrub lane in Hadleigh and Tattersal Gardens etc are classic examples of the same.....
"by people who have paid to do so"

How so? This is not a toll road.
[quote][p][bold]pembury53[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Russ13[/bold] wrote: "Crafty motorists"..... Seriously!!! It is a ROAD, provided you've paid your VED, insurance, have a valid license and MOT why the hell shouldn't you be able to use any part of the public highway? If some motorists are exceeding the advertised speed limit then that needs to be dealt with but the residents have no right whatsoever to discourage people from using it![/p][/quote]Absolutely right... 'crafty motorist' = normal use of the queens highway by people who have paid to do so 'rat run' = normal use of the queens highway by people who have paid to do so The real 'crafty' one's here are those trying to get effective private residential road status by whinning on about safety. Scrub lane in Hadleigh and Tattersal Gardens etc are classic examples of the same.....[/p][/quote]"by people who have paid to do so" How so? This is not a toll road. Shoebury_Cyclist

2:11pm Mon 7 Jan 13

southend_Dave says...

Test Tickle wrote:
“Cars really get a lot of speed up coming down the hill.”

What hill? Broomfield avenue is virtually flat, is this guy for real.

Is it speeding that is the problem or it's use as a Rat run, if speeding is the problem then put up speed cameras, after all is that not what they are for?, no need to waste money with speed humps which just serve to annoy drivers and cause damage to the underside of lower cars, not to mention do nothing to slow down motorcycles!

As for the term Rat run, well I was always lead to believe a road was used to get from point A to point B, or are we only meant to travel along main roads now?, no of course we are not.

To sum up...waste of time and money as usual!!!!!
Disagree totally.

If speeding is the issue a camera will slow cars down for the 20 yards in front of the camera only like everywhere else. Up to and after the camera cars will still speed.

Using traffic calming keeps the speed down throughout the area, I live in a similar street and it works.

PS Ive seen a car spin 180 degrees on that very bend as it was going too fast. Luckily it didnt hit anything.
[quote][p][bold]Test Tickle[/bold] wrote: “Cars really get a lot of speed up coming down the hill.” What hill? Broomfield avenue is virtually flat, is this guy for real. Is it speeding that is the problem or it's use as a Rat run, if speeding is the problem then put up speed cameras, after all is that not what they are for?, no need to waste money with speed humps which just serve to annoy drivers and cause damage to the underside of lower cars, not to mention do nothing to slow down motorcycles! As for the term Rat run, well I was always lead to believe a road was used to get from point A to point B, or are we only meant to travel along main roads now?, no of course we are not. To sum up...waste of time and money as usual!!!!![/p][/quote]Disagree totally. If speeding is the issue a camera will slow cars down for the 20 yards in front of the camera only like everywhere else. Up to and after the camera cars will still speed. Using traffic calming keeps the speed down throughout the area, I live in a similar street and it works. PS Ive seen a car spin 180 degrees on that very bend as it was going too fast. Luckily it didnt hit anything. southend_Dave

2:37pm Mon 7 Jan 13

asbo. just the truth says...

the residents will regret it. speed bumps are noisy, dustcarts and skip lorries make your house shake when the roll over them and the boyracers typically don't slow down to go over them unless they're the ferocious variety like those in pall mall which still scrape the underside of your car at 10 mph.
the residents will regret it. speed bumps are noisy, dustcarts and skip lorries make your house shake when the roll over them and the boyracers typically don't slow down to go over them unless they're the ferocious variety like those in pall mall which still scrape the underside of your car at 10 mph. asbo. just the truth

4:14pm Mon 7 Jan 13

southend_Dave says...

I live in a street with soeed bumps and have no issues with lorries making the house shake ?!!?!?

They work and I have no issues with them in my street.
I live in a street with soeed bumps and have no issues with lorries making the house shake ?!!?!? They work and I have no issues with them in my street. southend_Dave

4:19pm Mon 7 Jan 13

siddymint says...

The fairway was added to the councils to do list to reduce speed in 1997 yes 1997 so good luck.
It means nothing.
The fairway was added to the councils to do list to reduce speed in 1997 yes 1997 so good luck. It means nothing. siddymint

4:20pm Mon 7 Jan 13

Letmetryagain says...

It's a pretty safe bet that although the residents may think they are a good idea now, they will soon change their minds once they have been there for a while.

I do hate the term "rat run". As previously said, it is a public road, and available for all to use.

Would the residents rather it were a private road, and they paid for it's upkeep ?
It's a pretty safe bet that although the residents may think they are a good idea now, they will soon change their minds once they have been there for a while. I do hate the term "rat run". As previously said, it is a public road, and available for all to use. Would the residents rather it were a private road, and they paid for it's upkeep ? Letmetryagain

4:30pm Mon 7 Jan 13

troopdogg says...

leighman wrote:
Barry Bas wrote:
It's Saint and Greavsie isn't it?
More like Cox and Evans of Vic Reeves fame!
Brilliant!
[quote][p][bold]leighman[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Barry Bas[/bold] wrote: It's Saint and Greavsie isn't it?[/p][/quote]More like Cox and Evans of Vic Reeves fame![/p][/quote]Brilliant! troopdogg

4:35pm Mon 7 Jan 13

John T Pharro says...

Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:
pembury53 wrote:
Russ13 wrote:
"Crafty motorists"..... Seriously!!! It is a ROAD, provided you've paid your VED, insurance, have a valid license and MOT why the hell shouldn't you be able to use any part of the public highway? If some motorists are exceeding the advertised speed limit then that needs to be dealt with but the residents have no right whatsoever to discourage people from using it!
Absolutely right...

'crafty motorist' = normal use of the queens highway by people who have paid to do so

'rat run' = normal use of the queens highway by people who have paid to do so

The real 'crafty' one's here are those trying to get effective private residential road status by whinning on about safety. Scrub lane in Hadleigh and Tattersal Gardens etc are classic examples of the same.....
"by people who have paid to do so"

How so? This is not a toll road.
By paying road tax which entitles them to use the road. Cyclist can use it as well and they pay nothing
[quote][p][bold]Shoebury_Cyclist[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]pembury53[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Russ13[/bold] wrote: "Crafty motorists"..... Seriously!!! It is a ROAD, provided you've paid your VED, insurance, have a valid license and MOT why the hell shouldn't you be able to use any part of the public highway? If some motorists are exceeding the advertised speed limit then that needs to be dealt with but the residents have no right whatsoever to discourage people from using it![/p][/quote]Absolutely right... 'crafty motorist' = normal use of the queens highway by people who have paid to do so 'rat run' = normal use of the queens highway by people who have paid to do so The real 'crafty' one's here are those trying to get effective private residential road status by whinning on about safety. Scrub lane in Hadleigh and Tattersal Gardens etc are classic examples of the same.....[/p][/quote]"by people who have paid to do so" How so? This is not a toll road.[/p][/quote]By paying road tax which entitles them to use the road. Cyclist can use it as well and they pay nothing John T Pharro

4:43pm Mon 7 Jan 13

Eric Whim says...

John T Pharro wrote:
Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:
pembury53 wrote:
Russ13 wrote:
"Crafty motorists"..... Seriously!!! It is a ROAD, provided you've paid your VED, insurance, have a valid license and MOT why the hell shouldn't you be able to use any part of the public highway? If some motorists are exceeding the advertised speed limit then that needs to be dealt with but the residents have no right whatsoever to discourage people from using it!
Absolutely right...

'crafty motorist' = normal use of the queens highway by people who have paid to do so

'rat run' = normal use of the queens highway by people who have paid to do so

The real 'crafty' one's here are those trying to get effective private residential road status by whinning on about safety. Scrub lane in Hadleigh and Tattersal Gardens etc are classic examples of the same.....
"by people who have paid to do so"

How so? This is not a toll road.
By paying road tax which entitles them to use the road. Cyclist can use it as well and they pay nothing
no such thing as road tax.

You refer to Vehicle Excise Duty which is a tax on car ownership and has nothing to do with the road
[quote][p][bold]John T Pharro[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Shoebury_Cyclist[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]pembury53[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Russ13[/bold] wrote: "Crafty motorists"..... Seriously!!! It is a ROAD, provided you've paid your VED, insurance, have a valid license and MOT why the hell shouldn't you be able to use any part of the public highway? If some motorists are exceeding the advertised speed limit then that needs to be dealt with but the residents have no right whatsoever to discourage people from using it![/p][/quote]Absolutely right... 'crafty motorist' = normal use of the queens highway by people who have paid to do so 'rat run' = normal use of the queens highway by people who have paid to do so The real 'crafty' one's here are those trying to get effective private residential road status by whinning on about safety. Scrub lane in Hadleigh and Tattersal Gardens etc are classic examples of the same.....[/p][/quote]"by people who have paid to do so" How so? This is not a toll road.[/p][/quote]By paying road tax which entitles them to use the road. Cyclist can use it as well and they pay nothing[/p][/quote]no such thing as road tax. You refer to Vehicle Excise Duty which is a tax on car ownership and has nothing to do with the road Eric Whim

5:12pm Mon 7 Jan 13

Shoebury_Cyclist says...

John T Pharro wrote:
Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:
pembury53 wrote:
Russ13 wrote:
"Crafty motorists"..... Seriously!!! It is a ROAD, provided you've paid your VED, insurance, have a valid license and MOT why the hell shouldn't you be able to use any part of the public highway? If some motorists are exceeding the advertised speed limit then that needs to be dealt with but the residents have no right whatsoever to discourage people from using it!
Absolutely right...

'crafty motorist' = normal use of the queens highway by people who have paid to do so

'rat run' = normal use of the queens highway by people who have paid to do so

The real 'crafty' one's here are those trying to get effective private residential road status by whinning on about safety. Scrub lane in Hadleigh and Tattersal Gardens etc are classic examples of the same.....
"by people who have paid to do so"

How so? This is not a toll road.
By paying road tax which entitles them to use the road. Cyclist can use it as well and they pay nothing
Police cars, ambulances, fire engines, electric vehicles, very low emission vehicles, and every vehicle registered before january 1st 1973 don't pay for tax discs either.

There is no such thing as 'road tax'.'Road tax' was abolished in 1937. We pay VEHICLE Excise Duty, or car tax, which is a tax on engine size or CO2 emissions. It has precisely nothing to do with any 'right' to be on the road. No-one in the entire UK pays to use the roads, except on a few toll roads and bridges/tunnels.

Roads, cycle lanes, and pavements are paid for through council tax, income tax and every other tax that goes into the central government pot, all of which are also paid by cyclists. Plus 88% of cyclists also drive, so they pay all the same taxes as everyone else. There is only ONE hypothecated tax in the UK: the television licence. Every other tax goes into the central pot and is distributed as the exchequer sees fit.

Roads are free for anyone to use, that's why they are called the PUBLIC Highway. In fact pedestrians, horse riders, and cyclists have an automatic right to use roads. People in motor vehicles do not have an automatic right, they have to be licensed to say they are competent to safely operate a motor vehicle on the public highway.
[quote][p][bold]John T Pharro[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Shoebury_Cyclist[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]pembury53[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Russ13[/bold] wrote: "Crafty motorists"..... Seriously!!! It is a ROAD, provided you've paid your VED, insurance, have a valid license and MOT why the hell shouldn't you be able to use any part of the public highway? If some motorists are exceeding the advertised speed limit then that needs to be dealt with but the residents have no right whatsoever to discourage people from using it![/p][/quote]Absolutely right... 'crafty motorist' = normal use of the queens highway by people who have paid to do so 'rat run' = normal use of the queens highway by people who have paid to do so The real 'crafty' one's here are those trying to get effective private residential road status by whinning on about safety. Scrub lane in Hadleigh and Tattersal Gardens etc are classic examples of the same.....[/p][/quote]"by people who have paid to do so" How so? This is not a toll road.[/p][/quote]By paying road tax which entitles them to use the road. Cyclist can use it as well and they pay nothing[/p][/quote]Police cars, ambulances, fire engines, electric vehicles, very low emission vehicles, and every vehicle registered before january 1st 1973 don't pay for tax discs either. There is no such thing as 'road tax'.'Road tax' was abolished in 1937. We pay VEHICLE Excise Duty, or car tax, which is a tax on engine size or CO2 emissions. It has precisely nothing to do with any 'right' to be on the road. No-one in the entire UK pays to use the roads, except on a few toll roads and bridges/tunnels. Roads, cycle lanes, and pavements are paid for through council tax, income tax and every other tax that goes into the central government pot, all of which are also paid by cyclists. Plus 88% of cyclists also drive, so they pay all the same taxes as everyone else. There is only ONE hypothecated tax in the UK: the television licence. Every other tax goes into the central pot and is distributed as the exchequer sees fit. Roads are free for anyone to use, that's why they are called the PUBLIC Highway. In fact pedestrians, horse riders, and cyclists have an automatic right to use roads. People in motor vehicles do not have an automatic right, they have to be licensed to say they are competent to safely operate a motor vehicle on the public highway. Shoebury_Cyclist

5:14pm Mon 7 Jan 13

asbo. just the truth says...

southend_Dave wrote:
I live in a street with soeed bumps and have no issues with lorries making the house shake ?!!?!?

They work and I have no issues with them in my street.
which road do you live on? if you live on bournemouth park road for example the houses are set a long way back from the road so it is not an issue there but that road layout is rare in southend.
[quote][p][bold]southend_Dave[/bold] wrote: I live in a street with soeed bumps and have no issues with lorries making the house shake ?!!?!? They work and I have no issues with them in my street.[/p][/quote]which road do you live on? if you live on bournemouth park road for example the houses are set a long way back from the road so it is not an issue there but that road layout is rare in southend. asbo. just the truth

5:38pm Mon 7 Jan 13

John T Pharro says...

Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:
John T Pharro wrote:
Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:
pembury53 wrote:
Russ13 wrote:
"Crafty motorists"..... Seriously!!! It is a ROAD, provided you've paid your VED, insurance, have a valid license and MOT why the hell shouldn't you be able to use any part of the public highway? If some motorists are exceeding the advertised speed limit then that needs to be dealt with but the residents have no right whatsoever to discourage people from using it!
Absolutely right...

'crafty motorist' = normal use of the queens highway by people who have paid to do so

'rat run' = normal use of the queens highway by people who have paid to do so

The real 'crafty' one's here are those trying to get effective private residential road status by whinning on about safety. Scrub lane in Hadleigh and Tattersal Gardens etc are classic examples of the same.....
"by people who have paid to do so"

How so? This is not a toll road.
By paying road tax which entitles them to use the road. Cyclist can use it as well and they pay nothing
Police cars, ambulances, fire engines, electric vehicles, very low emission vehicles, and every vehicle registered before january 1st 1973 don't pay for tax discs either.

There is no such thing as 'road tax'.'Road tax' was abolished in 1937. We pay VEHICLE Excise Duty, or car tax, which is a tax on engine size or CO2 emissions. It has precisely nothing to do with any 'right' to be on the road. No-one in the entire UK pays to use the roads, except on a few toll roads and bridges/tunnels.

Roads, cycle lanes, and pavements are paid for through council tax, income tax and every other tax that goes into the central government pot, all of which are also paid by cyclists. Plus 88% of cyclists also drive, so they pay all the same taxes as everyone else. There is only ONE hypothecated tax in the UK: the television licence. Every other tax goes into the central pot and is distributed as the exchequer sees fit.

Roads are free for anyone to use, that's why they are called the PUBLIC Highway. In fact pedestrians, horse riders, and cyclists have an automatic right to use roads. People in motor vehicles do not have an automatic right, they have to be licensed to say they are competent to safely operate a motor vehicle on the public highway.
Yes, but other than what you state are exempt cars/lorries/vans have to pay a vehicle excise duty and have to,display a disc to enable them to use the road. Don't be so pedantic lots of people call it road tax. Cyclist pay no excise duty or any form of charge to use the road do they? Before you climb onto your bike I am not advocating they should. Would prefer that cyclist don't cycle on the pavement, ignore red lights and displayed lights. Just for the record I ride a cycle as well.
[quote][p][bold]Shoebury_Cyclist[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]John T Pharro[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Shoebury_Cyclist[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]pembury53[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Russ13[/bold] wrote: "Crafty motorists"..... Seriously!!! It is a ROAD, provided you've paid your VED, insurance, have a valid license and MOT why the hell shouldn't you be able to use any part of the public highway? If some motorists are exceeding the advertised speed limit then that needs to be dealt with but the residents have no right whatsoever to discourage people from using it![/p][/quote]Absolutely right... 'crafty motorist' = normal use of the queens highway by people who have paid to do so 'rat run' = normal use of the queens highway by people who have paid to do so The real 'crafty' one's here are those trying to get effective private residential road status by whinning on about safety. Scrub lane in Hadleigh and Tattersal Gardens etc are classic examples of the same.....[/p][/quote]"by people who have paid to do so" How so? This is not a toll road.[/p][/quote]By paying road tax which entitles them to use the road. Cyclist can use it as well and they pay nothing[/p][/quote]Police cars, ambulances, fire engines, electric vehicles, very low emission vehicles, and every vehicle registered before january 1st 1973 don't pay for tax discs either. There is no such thing as 'road tax'.'Road tax' was abolished in 1937. We pay VEHICLE Excise Duty, or car tax, which is a tax on engine size or CO2 emissions. It has precisely nothing to do with any 'right' to be on the road. No-one in the entire UK pays to use the roads, except on a few toll roads and bridges/tunnels. Roads, cycle lanes, and pavements are paid for through council tax, income tax and every other tax that goes into the central government pot, all of which are also paid by cyclists. Plus 88% of cyclists also drive, so they pay all the same taxes as everyone else. There is only ONE hypothecated tax in the UK: the television licence. Every other tax goes into the central pot and is distributed as the exchequer sees fit. Roads are free for anyone to use, that's why they are called the PUBLIC Highway. In fact pedestrians, horse riders, and cyclists have an automatic right to use roads. People in motor vehicles do not have an automatic right, they have to be licensed to say they are competent to safely operate a motor vehicle on the public highway.[/p][/quote]Yes, but other than what you state are exempt cars/lorries/vans have to pay a vehicle excise duty and have to,display a disc to enable them to use the road. Don't be so pedantic lots of people call it road tax. Cyclist pay no excise duty or any form of charge to use the road do they? Before you climb onto your bike I am not advocating they should. Would prefer that cyclist don't cycle on the pavement, ignore red lights and displayed lights. Just for the record I ride a cycle as well. John T Pharro

6:07pm Mon 7 Jan 13

jolllyboy says...

Using Bridgwater Drive, then Hurst Way and then on into Mountdale has a nasty blind bend to use. If that gets busier that will certainly cause an accident. the roads off bridgwater are not meant for heavy traffic, they are narrow and people take the corners too fast which is probably what has been happening in broomfield. Bumps there may slow traffic but wont stop them.
Using Bridgwater Drive, then Hurst Way and then on into Mountdale has a nasty blind bend to use. If that gets busier that will certainly cause an accident. the roads off bridgwater are not meant for heavy traffic, they are narrow and people take the corners too fast which is probably what has been happening in broomfield. Bumps there may slow traffic but wont stop them. jolllyboy

9:34pm Mon 7 Jan 13

Shoebury_Cyclist says...

John T Pharro wrote:
Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:
John T Pharro wrote:
Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:
pembury53 wrote:
Russ13 wrote:
"Crafty motorists"..... Seriously!!! It is a ROAD, provided you've paid your VED, insurance, have a valid license and MOT why the hell shouldn't you be able to use any part of the public highway? If some motorists are exceeding the advertised speed limit then that needs to be dealt with but the residents have no right whatsoever to discourage people from using it!
Absolutely right...

'crafty motorist' = normal use of the queens highway by people who have paid to do so

'rat run' = normal use of the queens highway by people who have paid to do so

The real 'crafty' one's here are those trying to get effective private residential road status by whinning on about safety. Scrub lane in Hadleigh and Tattersal Gardens etc are classic examples of the same.....
"by people who have paid to do so"

How so? This is not a toll road.
By paying road tax which entitles them to use the road. Cyclist can use it as well and they pay nothing
Police cars, ambulances, fire engines, electric vehicles, very low emission vehicles, and every vehicle registered before january 1st 1973 don't pay for tax discs either.

There is no such thing as 'road tax'.'Road tax' was abolished in 1937. We pay VEHICLE Excise Duty, or car tax, which is a tax on engine size or CO2 emissions. It has precisely nothing to do with any 'right' to be on the road. No-one in the entire UK pays to use the roads, except on a few toll roads and bridges/tunnels.

Roads, cycle lanes, and pavements are paid for through council tax, income tax and every other tax that goes into the central government pot, all of which are also paid by cyclists. Plus 88% of cyclists also drive, so they pay all the same taxes as everyone else. There is only ONE hypothecated tax in the UK: the television licence. Every other tax goes into the central pot and is distributed as the exchequer sees fit.

Roads are free for anyone to use, that's why they are called the PUBLIC Highway. In fact pedestrians, horse riders, and cyclists have an automatic right to use roads. People in motor vehicles do not have an automatic right, they have to be licensed to say they are competent to safely operate a motor vehicle on the public highway.
Yes, but other than what you state are exempt cars/lorries/vans have to pay a vehicle excise duty and have to,display a disc to enable them to use the road. Don't be so pedantic lots of people call it road tax. Cyclist pay no excise duty or any form of charge to use the road do they? Before you climb onto your bike I am not advocating they should. Would prefer that cyclist don't cycle on the pavement, ignore red lights and displayed lights. Just for the record I ride a cycle as well.
Roads are free for anyone to use. No-one in the UK - including all motorists - pays to use the roads with the exception of a couple of toll roads/bridges/tunnel
s.
[quote][p][bold]John T Pharro[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Shoebury_Cyclist[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]John T Pharro[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Shoebury_Cyclist[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]pembury53[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Russ13[/bold] wrote: "Crafty motorists"..... Seriously!!! It is a ROAD, provided you've paid your VED, insurance, have a valid license and MOT why the hell shouldn't you be able to use any part of the public highway? If some motorists are exceeding the advertised speed limit then that needs to be dealt with but the residents have no right whatsoever to discourage people from using it![/p][/quote]Absolutely right... 'crafty motorist' = normal use of the queens highway by people who have paid to do so 'rat run' = normal use of the queens highway by people who have paid to do so The real 'crafty' one's here are those trying to get effective private residential road status by whinning on about safety. Scrub lane in Hadleigh and Tattersal Gardens etc are classic examples of the same.....[/p][/quote]"by people who have paid to do so" How so? This is not a toll road.[/p][/quote]By paying road tax which entitles them to use the road. Cyclist can use it as well and they pay nothing[/p][/quote]Police cars, ambulances, fire engines, electric vehicles, very low emission vehicles, and every vehicle registered before january 1st 1973 don't pay for tax discs either. There is no such thing as 'road tax'.'Road tax' was abolished in 1937. We pay VEHICLE Excise Duty, or car tax, which is a tax on engine size or CO2 emissions. It has precisely nothing to do with any 'right' to be on the road. No-one in the entire UK pays to use the roads, except on a few toll roads and bridges/tunnels. Roads, cycle lanes, and pavements are paid for through council tax, income tax and every other tax that goes into the central government pot, all of which are also paid by cyclists. Plus 88% of cyclists also drive, so they pay all the same taxes as everyone else. There is only ONE hypothecated tax in the UK: the television licence. Every other tax goes into the central pot and is distributed as the exchequer sees fit. Roads are free for anyone to use, that's why they are called the PUBLIC Highway. In fact pedestrians, horse riders, and cyclists have an automatic right to use roads. People in motor vehicles do not have an automatic right, they have to be licensed to say they are competent to safely operate a motor vehicle on the public highway.[/p][/quote]Yes, but other than what you state are exempt cars/lorries/vans have to pay a vehicle excise duty and have to,display a disc to enable them to use the road. Don't be so pedantic lots of people call it road tax. Cyclist pay no excise duty or any form of charge to use the road do they? Before you climb onto your bike I am not advocating they should. Would prefer that cyclist don't cycle on the pavement, ignore red lights and displayed lights. Just for the record I ride a cycle as well.[/p][/quote]Roads are free for anyone to use. No-one in the UK - including all motorists - pays to use the roads with the exception of a couple of toll roads/bridges/tunnel s. Shoebury_Cyclist

11:00pm Mon 7 Jan 13

Ed in says...

Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:
John T Pharro wrote:
Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:
John T Pharro wrote:
Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:
pembury53 wrote:
Russ13 wrote:
"Crafty motorists"..... Seriously!!! It is a ROAD, provided you've paid your VED, insurance, have a valid license and MOT why the hell shouldn't you be able to use any part of the public highway? If some motorists are exceeding the advertised speed limit then that needs to be dealt with but the residents have no right whatsoever to discourage people from using it!
Absolutely right...

'crafty motorist' = normal use of the queens highway by people who have paid to do so

'rat run' = normal use of the queens highway by people who have paid to do so

The real 'crafty' one's here are those trying to get effective private residential road status by whinning on about safety. Scrub lane in Hadleigh and Tattersal Gardens etc are classic examples of the same.....
"by people who have paid to do so"

How so? This is not a toll road.
By paying road tax which entitles them to use the road. Cyclist can use it as well and they pay nothing
Police cars, ambulances, fire engines, electric vehicles, very low emission vehicles, and every vehicle registered before january 1st 1973 don't pay for tax discs either.

There is no such thing as 'road tax'.'Road tax' was abolished in 1937. We pay VEHICLE Excise Duty, or car tax, which is a tax on engine size or CO2 emissions. It has precisely nothing to do with any 'right' to be on the road. No-one in the entire UK pays to use the roads, except on a few toll roads and bridges/tunnels.

Roads, cycle lanes, and pavements are paid for through council tax, income tax and every other tax that goes into the central government pot, all of which are also paid by cyclists. Plus 88% of cyclists also drive, so they pay all the same taxes as everyone else. There is only ONE hypothecated tax in the UK: the television licence. Every other tax goes into the central pot and is distributed as the exchequer sees fit.

Roads are free for anyone to use, that's why they are called the PUBLIC Highway. In fact pedestrians, horse riders, and cyclists have an automatic right to use roads. People in motor vehicles do not have an automatic right, they have to be licensed to say they are competent to safely operate a motor vehicle on the public highway.
Yes, but other than what you state are exempt cars/lorries/vans have to pay a vehicle excise duty and have to,display a disc to enable them to use the road. Don't be so pedantic lots of people call it road tax. Cyclist pay no excise duty or any form of charge to use the road do they? Before you climb onto your bike I am not advocating they should. Would prefer that cyclist don't cycle on the pavement, ignore red lights and displayed lights. Just for the record I ride a cycle as well.
Roads are free for anyone to use. No-one in the UK - including all motorists - pays to use the roads with the exception of a couple of toll roads/bridges/tunnel

s.
Is that right, so how comes it cost nothing to keep my car on my driveway, but I have to pay for a tax disc to use it on the road, it does cost to use my car on the road so therefore it is not free.
And as such I have every right to call it a Road Tax, because that’s exactly what it is, no matter how you want to dress it up.
[quote][p][bold]Shoebury_Cyclist[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]John T Pharro[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Shoebury_Cyclist[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]John T Pharro[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Shoebury_Cyclist[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]pembury53[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Russ13[/bold] wrote: "Crafty motorists"..... Seriously!!! It is a ROAD, provided you've paid your VED, insurance, have a valid license and MOT why the hell shouldn't you be able to use any part of the public highway? If some motorists are exceeding the advertised speed limit then that needs to be dealt with but the residents have no right whatsoever to discourage people from using it![/p][/quote]Absolutely right... 'crafty motorist' = normal use of the queens highway by people who have paid to do so 'rat run' = normal use of the queens highway by people who have paid to do so The real 'crafty' one's here are those trying to get effective private residential road status by whinning on about safety. Scrub lane in Hadleigh and Tattersal Gardens etc are classic examples of the same.....[/p][/quote]"by people who have paid to do so" How so? This is not a toll road.[/p][/quote]By paying road tax which entitles them to use the road. Cyclist can use it as well and they pay nothing[/p][/quote]Police cars, ambulances, fire engines, electric vehicles, very low emission vehicles, and every vehicle registered before january 1st 1973 don't pay for tax discs either. There is no such thing as 'road tax'.'Road tax' was abolished in 1937. We pay VEHICLE Excise Duty, or car tax, which is a tax on engine size or CO2 emissions. It has precisely nothing to do with any 'right' to be on the road. No-one in the entire UK pays to use the roads, except on a few toll roads and bridges/tunnels. Roads, cycle lanes, and pavements are paid for through council tax, income tax and every other tax that goes into the central government pot, all of which are also paid by cyclists. Plus 88% of cyclists also drive, so they pay all the same taxes as everyone else. There is only ONE hypothecated tax in the UK: the television licence. Every other tax goes into the central pot and is distributed as the exchequer sees fit. Roads are free for anyone to use, that's why they are called the PUBLIC Highway. In fact pedestrians, horse riders, and cyclists have an automatic right to use roads. People in motor vehicles do not have an automatic right, they have to be licensed to say they are competent to safely operate a motor vehicle on the public highway.[/p][/quote]Yes, but other than what you state are exempt cars/lorries/vans have to pay a vehicle excise duty and have to,display a disc to enable them to use the road. Don't be so pedantic lots of people call it road tax. Cyclist pay no excise duty or any form of charge to use the road do they? Before you climb onto your bike I am not advocating they should. Would prefer that cyclist don't cycle on the pavement, ignore red lights and displayed lights. Just for the record I ride a cycle as well.[/p][/quote]Roads are free for anyone to use. No-one in the UK - including all motorists - pays to use the roads with the exception of a couple of toll roads/bridges/tunnel s.[/p][/quote]Is that right, so how comes it cost nothing to keep my car on my driveway, but I have to pay for a tax disc to use it on the road, it does cost to use my car on the road so therefore it is not free. And as such I have every right to call it a Road Tax, because that’s exactly what it is, no matter how you want to dress it up. Ed in

1:34am Tue 8 Jan 13

pendulum says...

"Road tax" is and has for a long time been used to refer to the money paid for the tax disk that most vehicles require. It seems to be the in thing for pedantic cyclists to "correct" others by pointing out its technical name (VED). However, calling it road tax remains perfectly valid.
"Road tax" is and has for a long time been used to refer to the money paid for the tax disk that most vehicles require. It seems to be the in thing for pedantic cyclists to "correct" others by pointing out its technical name (VED). However, calling it road tax remains perfectly valid. pendulum

7:52am Tue 8 Jan 13

mark-986 says...

Ed in wrote:
Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:
John T Pharro wrote:
Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:
John T Pharro wrote:
Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:
pembury53 wrote:
Russ13 wrote:
"Crafty motorists"..... Seriously!!! It is a ROAD, provided you've paid your VED, insurance, have a valid license and MOT why the hell shouldn't you be able to use any part of the public highway? If some motorists are exceeding the advertised speed limit then that needs to be dealt with but the residents have no right whatsoever to discourage people from using it!
Absolutely right...

'crafty motorist' = normal use of the queens highway by people who have paid to do so

'rat run' = normal use of the queens highway by people who have paid to do so

The real 'crafty' one's here are those trying to get effective private residential road status by whinning on about safety. Scrub lane in Hadleigh and Tattersal Gardens etc are classic examples of the same.....
"by people who have paid to do so"

How so? This is not a toll road.
By paying road tax which entitles them to use the road. Cyclist can use it as well and they pay nothing
Police cars, ambulances, fire engines, electric vehicles, very low emission vehicles, and every vehicle registered before january 1st 1973 don't pay for tax discs either.

There is no such thing as 'road tax'.'Road tax' was abolished in 1937. We pay VEHICLE Excise Duty, or car tax, which is a tax on engine size or CO2 emissions. It has precisely nothing to do with any 'right' to be on the road. No-one in the entire UK pays to use the roads, except on a few toll roads and bridges/tunnels.

Roads, cycle lanes, and pavements are paid for through council tax, income tax and every other tax that goes into the central government pot, all of which are also paid by cyclists. Plus 88% of cyclists also drive, so they pay all the same taxes as everyone else. There is only ONE hypothecated tax in the UK: the television licence. Every other tax goes into the central pot and is distributed as the exchequer sees fit.

Roads are free for anyone to use, that's why they are called the PUBLIC Highway. In fact pedestrians, horse riders, and cyclists have an automatic right to use roads. People in motor vehicles do not have an automatic right, they have to be licensed to say they are competent to safely operate a motor vehicle on the public highway.
Yes, but other than what you state are exempt cars/lorries/vans have to pay a vehicle excise duty and have to,display a disc to enable them to use the road. Don't be so pedantic lots of people call it road tax. Cyclist pay no excise duty or any form of charge to use the road do they? Before you climb onto your bike I am not advocating they should. Would prefer that cyclist don't cycle on the pavement, ignore red lights and displayed lights. Just for the record I ride a cycle as well.
Roads are free for anyone to use. No-one in the UK - including all motorists - pays to use the roads with the exception of a couple of toll roads/bridges/tunnel


s.
Is that right, so how comes it cost nothing to keep my car on my driveway, but I have to pay for a tax disc to use it on the road, it does cost to use my car on the road so therefore it is not free.
And as such I have every right to call it a Road Tax, because that’s exactly what it is, no matter how you want to dress it up.
this is all Shoebury_Cyclist goes on about. he is like a broken record. normally people know we pay tax/ved to use our cars on the road.
soon as there is some car or bike story he is on here it's getting very boring seeing his same comments on every story.
[quote][p][bold]Ed in[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Shoebury_Cyclist[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]John T Pharro[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Shoebury_Cyclist[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]John T Pharro[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Shoebury_Cyclist[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]pembury53[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Russ13[/bold] wrote: "Crafty motorists"..... Seriously!!! It is a ROAD, provided you've paid your VED, insurance, have a valid license and MOT why the hell shouldn't you be able to use any part of the public highway? If some motorists are exceeding the advertised speed limit then that needs to be dealt with but the residents have no right whatsoever to discourage people from using it![/p][/quote]Absolutely right... 'crafty motorist' = normal use of the queens highway by people who have paid to do so 'rat run' = normal use of the queens highway by people who have paid to do so The real 'crafty' one's here are those trying to get effective private residential road status by whinning on about safety. Scrub lane in Hadleigh and Tattersal Gardens etc are classic examples of the same.....[/p][/quote]"by people who have paid to do so" How so? This is not a toll road.[/p][/quote]By paying road tax which entitles them to use the road. Cyclist can use it as well and they pay nothing[/p][/quote]Police cars, ambulances, fire engines, electric vehicles, very low emission vehicles, and every vehicle registered before january 1st 1973 don't pay for tax discs either. There is no such thing as 'road tax'.'Road tax' was abolished in 1937. We pay VEHICLE Excise Duty, or car tax, which is a tax on engine size or CO2 emissions. It has precisely nothing to do with any 'right' to be on the road. No-one in the entire UK pays to use the roads, except on a few toll roads and bridges/tunnels. Roads, cycle lanes, and pavements are paid for through council tax, income tax and every other tax that goes into the central government pot, all of which are also paid by cyclists. Plus 88% of cyclists also drive, so they pay all the same taxes as everyone else. There is only ONE hypothecated tax in the UK: the television licence. Every other tax goes into the central pot and is distributed as the exchequer sees fit. Roads are free for anyone to use, that's why they are called the PUBLIC Highway. In fact pedestrians, horse riders, and cyclists have an automatic right to use roads. People in motor vehicles do not have an automatic right, they have to be licensed to say they are competent to safely operate a motor vehicle on the public highway.[/p][/quote]Yes, but other than what you state are exempt cars/lorries/vans have to pay a vehicle excise duty and have to,display a disc to enable them to use the road. Don't be so pedantic lots of people call it road tax. Cyclist pay no excise duty or any form of charge to use the road do they? Before you climb onto your bike I am not advocating they should. Would prefer that cyclist don't cycle on the pavement, ignore red lights and displayed lights. Just for the record I ride a cycle as well.[/p][/quote]Roads are free for anyone to use. No-one in the UK - including all motorists - pays to use the roads with the exception of a couple of toll roads/bridges/tunnel s.[/p][/quote]Is that right, so how comes it cost nothing to keep my car on my driveway, but I have to pay for a tax disc to use it on the road, it does cost to use my car on the road so therefore it is not free. And as such I have every right to call it a Road Tax, because that’s exactly what it is, no matter how you want to dress it up.[/p][/quote]this is all Shoebury_Cyclist goes on about. he is like a broken record. normally people know we pay tax/ved to use our cars on the road. soon as there is some car or bike story he is on here it's getting very boring seeing his same comments on every story. mark-986

8:10am Tue 8 Jan 13

pembury53 says...

Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:
pembury53 wrote:
Russ13 wrote: "Crafty motorists"..... Seriously!!! It is a ROAD, provided you've paid your VED, insurance, have a valid license and MOT why the hell shouldn't you be able to use any part of the public highway? If some motorists are exceeding the advertised speed limit then that needs to be dealt with but the residents have no right whatsoever to discourage people from using it!
Absolutely right... 'crafty motorist' = normal use of the queens highway by people who have paid to do so 'rat run' = normal use of the queens highway by people who have paid to do so The real 'crafty' one's here are those trying to get effective private residential road status by whinning on about safety. Scrub lane in Hadleigh and Tattersal Gardens etc are classic examples of the same.....
"by people who have paid to do so" How so? This is not a toll road.
I was assuming those using this road had paid vehicle excise duty, which is a pre-requisite of using the roads ????
[quote][p][bold]Shoebury_Cyclist[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]pembury53[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Russ13[/bold] wrote: "Crafty motorists"..... Seriously!!! It is a ROAD, provided you've paid your VED, insurance, have a valid license and MOT why the hell shouldn't you be able to use any part of the public highway? If some motorists are exceeding the advertised speed limit then that needs to be dealt with but the residents have no right whatsoever to discourage people from using it![/p][/quote]Absolutely right... 'crafty motorist' = normal use of the queens highway by people who have paid to do so 'rat run' = normal use of the queens highway by people who have paid to do so The real 'crafty' one's here are those trying to get effective private residential road status by whinning on about safety. Scrub lane in Hadleigh and Tattersal Gardens etc are classic examples of the same.....[/p][/quote]"by people who have paid to do so" How so? This is not a toll road.[/p][/quote]I was assuming those using this road had paid vehicle excise duty, which is a pre-requisite of using the roads ???? pembury53

9:27am Tue 8 Jan 13

Shoebury_Cyclist says...

pembury53 wrote:
Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:
pembury53 wrote:
Russ13 wrote: "Crafty motorists"..... Seriously!!! It is a ROAD, provided you've paid your VED, insurance, have a valid license and MOT why the hell shouldn't you be able to use any part of the public highway? If some motorists are exceeding the advertised speed limit then that needs to be dealt with but the residents have no right whatsoever to discourage people from using it!
Absolutely right... 'crafty motorist' = normal use of the queens highway by people who have paid to do so 'rat run' = normal use of the queens highway by people who have paid to do so The real 'crafty' one's here are those trying to get effective private residential road status by whinning on about safety. Scrub lane in Hadleigh and Tattersal Gardens etc are classic examples of the same.....
"by people who have paid to do so" How so? This is not a toll road.
I was assuming those using this road had paid vehicle excise duty, which is a pre-requisite of using the roads ????
Vehicle Excise Duty is a tax for polluting, not for using roads. It is required to use a car, it is not required to use roads. That's why all these can use roads without having to buy VED:

Pedestrians.
Horse riders,
Cyclists,
Milk floats,
Disabled drivers,
Tractors,
Police vehicles,
Ambulances,
Fire engines,
Military vehicles,
Road gritters,
Snow ploughs,
Zero emission vehicles,
Very low emission vehicles,
And all vehicles registered before Jan 1st 1973.

Oh, and the Queen's limo.
[quote][p][bold]pembury53[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Shoebury_Cyclist[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]pembury53[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Russ13[/bold] wrote: "Crafty motorists"..... Seriously!!! It is a ROAD, provided you've paid your VED, insurance, have a valid license and MOT why the hell shouldn't you be able to use any part of the public highway? If some motorists are exceeding the advertised speed limit then that needs to be dealt with but the residents have no right whatsoever to discourage people from using it![/p][/quote]Absolutely right... 'crafty motorist' = normal use of the queens highway by people who have paid to do so 'rat run' = normal use of the queens highway by people who have paid to do so The real 'crafty' one's here are those trying to get effective private residential road status by whinning on about safety. Scrub lane in Hadleigh and Tattersal Gardens etc are classic examples of the same.....[/p][/quote]"by people who have paid to do so" How so? This is not a toll road.[/p][/quote]I was assuming those using this road had paid vehicle excise duty, which is a pre-requisite of using the roads ????[/p][/quote]Vehicle Excise Duty is a tax for polluting, not for using roads. It is required to use a car, it is not required to use roads. That's why all these can use roads without having to buy VED: Pedestrians. Horse riders, Cyclists, Milk floats, Disabled drivers, Tractors, Police vehicles, Ambulances, Fire engines, Military vehicles, Road gritters, Snow ploughs, Zero emission vehicles, Very low emission vehicles, And all vehicles registered before Jan 1st 1973. Oh, and the Queen's limo. Shoebury_Cyclist

10:39am Tue 8 Jan 13

Alekhine says...

i wonder if the traffic calming measures will have those little gaps in the middle to allow cyclists through without serious injury?
i wonder if the traffic calming measures will have those little gaps in the middle to allow cyclists through without serious injury? Alekhine

11:56am Tue 8 Jan 13

Ed in says...

Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:
pembury53 wrote:
Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:
pembury53 wrote:
Russ13 wrote: "Crafty motorists"..... Seriously!!! It is a ROAD, provided you've paid your VED, insurance, have a valid license and MOT why the hell shouldn't you be able to use any part of the public highway? If some motorists are exceeding the advertised speed limit then that needs to be dealt with but the residents have no right whatsoever to discourage people from using it!
Absolutely right... 'crafty motorist' = normal use of the queens highway by people who have paid to do so 'rat run' = normal use of the queens highway by people who have paid to do so The real 'crafty' one's here are those trying to get effective private residential road status by whinning on about safety. Scrub lane in Hadleigh and Tattersal Gardens etc are classic examples of the same.....
"by people who have paid to do so" How so? This is not a toll road.
I was assuming those using this road had paid vehicle excise duty, which is a pre-requisite of using the roads ????
Vehicle Excise Duty is a tax for polluting, not for using roads. It is required to use a car, it is not required to use roads. That's why all these can use roads without having to buy VED:

Pedestrians.
Horse riders,
Cyclists,
Milk floats,
Disabled drivers,
Tractors,
Police vehicles,
Ambulances,
Fire engines,
Military vehicles,
Road gritters,
Snow ploughs,
Zero emission vehicles,
Very low emission vehicles,
And all vehicles registered before Jan 1st 1973.

Oh, and the Queen's limo.
Really, half of your list causes pollution, and I can use a vehicle which would cause pollution on private land without having to pay "road tax". So it is for the use of the road.
[quote][p][bold]Shoebury_Cyclist[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]pembury53[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Shoebury_Cyclist[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]pembury53[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Russ13[/bold] wrote: "Crafty motorists"..... Seriously!!! It is a ROAD, provided you've paid your VED, insurance, have a valid license and MOT why the hell shouldn't you be able to use any part of the public highway? If some motorists are exceeding the advertised speed limit then that needs to be dealt with but the residents have no right whatsoever to discourage people from using it![/p][/quote]Absolutely right... 'crafty motorist' = normal use of the queens highway by people who have paid to do so 'rat run' = normal use of the queens highway by people who have paid to do so The real 'crafty' one's here are those trying to get effective private residential road status by whinning on about safety. Scrub lane in Hadleigh and Tattersal Gardens etc are classic examples of the same.....[/p][/quote]"by people who have paid to do so" How so? This is not a toll road.[/p][/quote]I was assuming those using this road had paid vehicle excise duty, which is a pre-requisite of using the roads ????[/p][/quote]Vehicle Excise Duty is a tax for polluting, not for using roads. It is required to use a car, it is not required to use roads. That's why all these can use roads without having to buy VED: Pedestrians. Horse riders, Cyclists, Milk floats, Disabled drivers, Tractors, Police vehicles, Ambulances, Fire engines, Military vehicles, Road gritters, Snow ploughs, Zero emission vehicles, Very low emission vehicles, And all vehicles registered before Jan 1st 1973. Oh, and the Queen's limo.[/p][/quote]Really, half of your list causes pollution, and I can use a vehicle which would cause pollution on private land without having to pay "road tax". So it is for the use of the road. Ed in

1:04pm Tue 8 Jan 13

pembury53 says...

Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:
pembury53 wrote:
Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:
pembury53 wrote:
Russ13 wrote: "Crafty motorists"..... Seriously!!! It is a ROAD, provided you've paid your VED, insurance, have a valid license and MOT why the hell shouldn't you be able to use any part of the public highway? If some motorists are exceeding the advertised speed limit then that needs to be dealt with but the residents have no right whatsoever to discourage people from using it!
Absolutely right... 'crafty motorist' = normal use of the queens highway by people who have paid to do so 'rat run' = normal use of the queens highway by people who have paid to do so The real 'crafty' one's here are those trying to get effective private residential road status by whinning on about safety. Scrub lane in Hadleigh and Tattersal Gardens etc are classic examples of the same.....
"by people who have paid to do so" How so? This is not a toll road.
I was assuming those using this road had paid vehicle excise duty, which is a pre-requisite of using the roads ????
Vehicle Excise Duty is a tax for polluting, not for using roads. It is required to use a car, it is not required to use roads. That's why all these can use roads without having to buy VED: Pedestrians. Horse riders, Cyclists, Milk floats, Disabled drivers, Tractors, Police vehicles, Ambulances, Fire engines, Military vehicles, Road gritters, Snow ploughs, Zero emission vehicles, Very low emission vehicles, And all vehicles registered before Jan 1st 1973. Oh, and the Queen's limo.
All very interesting, but so what ? The original point was that anyone has a right to drive down this particular road regardless if they are called 'crafty' or 'rat runners' ..... likewise does it really matter whether you call it 'tax' or 'VED' since you will have a job convincing the courts you don't need it either way. In actual fact, lawfully you don't, so long as you can absolve your contract with HM government and declare yourself a 'freeman' !
[quote][p][bold]Shoebury_Cyclist[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]pembury53[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Shoebury_Cyclist[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]pembury53[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Russ13[/bold] wrote: "Crafty motorists"..... Seriously!!! It is a ROAD, provided you've paid your VED, insurance, have a valid license and MOT why the hell shouldn't you be able to use any part of the public highway? If some motorists are exceeding the advertised speed limit then that needs to be dealt with but the residents have no right whatsoever to discourage people from using it![/p][/quote]Absolutely right... 'crafty motorist' = normal use of the queens highway by people who have paid to do so 'rat run' = normal use of the queens highway by people who have paid to do so The real 'crafty' one's here are those trying to get effective private residential road status by whinning on about safety. Scrub lane in Hadleigh and Tattersal Gardens etc are classic examples of the same.....[/p][/quote]"by people who have paid to do so" How so? This is not a toll road.[/p][/quote]I was assuming those using this road had paid vehicle excise duty, which is a pre-requisite of using the roads ????[/p][/quote]Vehicle Excise Duty is a tax for polluting, not for using roads. It is required to use a car, it is not required to use roads. That's why all these can use roads without having to buy VED: Pedestrians. Horse riders, Cyclists, Milk floats, Disabled drivers, Tractors, Police vehicles, Ambulances, Fire engines, Military vehicles, Road gritters, Snow ploughs, Zero emission vehicles, Very low emission vehicles, And all vehicles registered before Jan 1st 1973. Oh, and the Queen's limo.[/p][/quote]All very interesting, but so what ? The original point was that anyone has a right to drive down this particular road regardless if they are called 'crafty' or 'rat runners' ..... likewise does it really matter whether you call it 'tax' or 'VED' since you will have a job convincing the courts you don't need it either way. In actual fact, lawfully you don't, so long as you can absolve your contract with HM government and declare yourself a 'freeman' ! pembury53

1:21pm Tue 8 Jan 13

Tom from Southend says...

Please dont install traffic calming measures. That route is a great rat run.
Please dont install traffic calming measures. That route is a great rat run. Tom from Southend

5:24pm Tue 8 Jan 13

John T Pharro says...

Ed in wrote:
Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:
pembury53 wrote:
Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:
pembury53 wrote:
Russ13 wrote: "Crafty motorists"..... Seriously!!! It is a ROAD, provided you've paid your VED, insurance, have a valid license and MOT why the hell shouldn't you be able to use any part of the public highway? If some motorists are exceeding the advertised speed limit then that needs to be dealt with but the residents have no right whatsoever to discourage people from using it!
Absolutely right... 'crafty motorist' = normal use of the queens highway by people who have paid to do so 'rat run' = normal use of the queens highway by people who have paid to do so The real 'crafty' one's here are those trying to get effective private residential road status by whinning on about safety. Scrub lane in Hadleigh and Tattersal Gardens etc are classic examples of the same.....
"by people who have paid to do so" How so? This is not a toll road.
I was assuming those using this road had paid vehicle excise duty, which is a pre-requisite of using the roads ????
Vehicle Excise Duty is a tax for polluting, not for using roads. It is required to use a car, it is not required to use roads. That's why all these can use roads without having to buy VED:

Pedestrians.
Horse riders,
Cyclists,
Milk floats,
Disabled drivers,
Tractors,
Police vehicles,
Ambulances,
Fire engines,
Military vehicles,
Road gritters,
Snow ploughs,
Zero emission vehicles,
Very low emission vehicles,
And all vehicles registered before Jan 1st 1973.

Oh, and the Queen's limo.
Really, half of your list causes pollution, and I can use a vehicle which would cause pollution on private land without having to pay "road tax". So it is for the use of the road.
Well said Ed in. As you probably noticed from post similar to yours like mine, this Shoebury Cyclist is never wrong even when he is. Bet he's a bundle of laughs to have a drink with.
[quote][p][bold]Ed in[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Shoebury_Cyclist[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]pembury53[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Shoebury_Cyclist[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]pembury53[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Russ13[/bold] wrote: "Crafty motorists"..... Seriously!!! It is a ROAD, provided you've paid your VED, insurance, have a valid license and MOT why the hell shouldn't you be able to use any part of the public highway? If some motorists are exceeding the advertised speed limit then that needs to be dealt with but the residents have no right whatsoever to discourage people from using it![/p][/quote]Absolutely right... 'crafty motorist' = normal use of the queens highway by people who have paid to do so 'rat run' = normal use of the queens highway by people who have paid to do so The real 'crafty' one's here are those trying to get effective private residential road status by whinning on about safety. Scrub lane in Hadleigh and Tattersal Gardens etc are classic examples of the same.....[/p][/quote]"by people who have paid to do so" How so? This is not a toll road.[/p][/quote]I was assuming those using this road had paid vehicle excise duty, which is a pre-requisite of using the roads ????[/p][/quote]Vehicle Excise Duty is a tax for polluting, not for using roads. It is required to use a car, it is not required to use roads. That's why all these can use roads without having to buy VED: Pedestrians. Horse riders, Cyclists, Milk floats, Disabled drivers, Tractors, Police vehicles, Ambulances, Fire engines, Military vehicles, Road gritters, Snow ploughs, Zero emission vehicles, Very low emission vehicles, And all vehicles registered before Jan 1st 1973. Oh, and the Queen's limo.[/p][/quote]Really, half of your list causes pollution, and I can use a vehicle which would cause pollution on private land without having to pay "road tax". So it is for the use of the road.[/p][/quote]Well said Ed in. As you probably noticed from post similar to yours like mine, this Shoebury Cyclist is never wrong even when he is. Bet he's a bundle of laughs to have a drink with. John T Pharro

8:27pm Tue 8 Jan 13

Shoebury_Cyclist says...

Ed in wrote:
Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:
pembury53 wrote:
Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:
pembury53 wrote:
Russ13 wrote: "Crafty motorists"..... Seriously!!! It is a ROAD, provided you've paid your VED, insurance, have a valid license and MOT why the hell shouldn't you be able to use any part of the public highway? If some motorists are exceeding the advertised speed limit then that needs to be dealt with but the residents have no right whatsoever to discourage people from using it!
Absolutely right... 'crafty motorist' = normal use of the queens highway by people who have paid to do so 'rat run' = normal use of the queens highway by people who have paid to do so The real 'crafty' one's here are those trying to get effective private residential road status by whinning on about safety. Scrub lane in Hadleigh and Tattersal Gardens etc are classic examples of the same.....
"by people who have paid to do so" How so? This is not a toll road.
I was assuming those using this road had paid vehicle excise duty, which is a pre-requisite of using the roads ????
Vehicle Excise Duty is a tax for polluting, not for using roads. It is required to use a car, it is not required to use roads. That's why all these can use roads without having to buy VED:

Pedestrians.
Horse riders,
Cyclists,
Milk floats,
Disabled drivers,
Tractors,
Police vehicles,
Ambulances,
Fire engines,
Military vehicles,
Road gritters,
Snow ploughs,
Zero emission vehicles,
Very low emission vehicles,
And all vehicles registered before Jan 1st 1973.

Oh, and the Queen's limo.
Really, half of your list causes pollution, and I can use a vehicle which would cause pollution on private land without having to pay "road tax". So it is for the use of the road.
If it was a tax to use roads pedestrians and horses would have to pay it too. It is a tax to pollute. Here:

http://ipayroadtax.c
om

and here:

http://ipayroadtax.c
om/no-such-thing-as-
road-tax/who-pays-ro
ad-tax/
[quote][p][bold]Ed in[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Shoebury_Cyclist[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]pembury53[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Shoebury_Cyclist[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]pembury53[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Russ13[/bold] wrote: "Crafty motorists"..... Seriously!!! It is a ROAD, provided you've paid your VED, insurance, have a valid license and MOT why the hell shouldn't you be able to use any part of the public highway? If some motorists are exceeding the advertised speed limit then that needs to be dealt with but the residents have no right whatsoever to discourage people from using it![/p][/quote]Absolutely right... 'crafty motorist' = normal use of the queens highway by people who have paid to do so 'rat run' = normal use of the queens highway by people who have paid to do so The real 'crafty' one's here are those trying to get effective private residential road status by whinning on about safety. Scrub lane in Hadleigh and Tattersal Gardens etc are classic examples of the same.....[/p][/quote]"by people who have paid to do so" How so? This is not a toll road.[/p][/quote]I was assuming those using this road had paid vehicle excise duty, which is a pre-requisite of using the roads ????[/p][/quote]Vehicle Excise Duty is a tax for polluting, not for using roads. It is required to use a car, it is not required to use roads. That's why all these can use roads without having to buy VED: Pedestrians. Horse riders, Cyclists, Milk floats, Disabled drivers, Tractors, Police vehicles, Ambulances, Fire engines, Military vehicles, Road gritters, Snow ploughs, Zero emission vehicles, Very low emission vehicles, And all vehicles registered before Jan 1st 1973. Oh, and the Queen's limo.[/p][/quote]Really, half of your list causes pollution, and I can use a vehicle which would cause pollution on private land without having to pay "road tax". So it is for the use of the road.[/p][/quote]If it was a tax to use roads pedestrians and horses would have to pay it too. It is a tax to pollute. Here: http://ipayroadtax.c om and here: http://ipayroadtax.c om/no-such-thing-as- road-tax/who-pays-ro ad-tax/ Shoebury_Cyclist

8:29pm Tue 8 Jan 13

Shoebury_Cyclist says...

pembury53 wrote:
Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:
pembury53 wrote:
Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:
pembury53 wrote:
Russ13 wrote: "Crafty motorists"..... Seriously!!! It is a ROAD, provided you've paid your VED, insurance, have a valid license and MOT why the hell shouldn't you be able to use any part of the public highway? If some motorists are exceeding the advertised speed limit then that needs to be dealt with but the residents have no right whatsoever to discourage people from using it!
Absolutely right... 'crafty motorist' = normal use of the queens highway by people who have paid to do so 'rat run' = normal use of the queens highway by people who have paid to do so The real 'crafty' one's here are those trying to get effective private residential road status by whinning on about safety. Scrub lane in Hadleigh and Tattersal Gardens etc are classic examples of the same.....
"by people who have paid to do so" How so? This is not a toll road.
I was assuming those using this road had paid vehicle excise duty, which is a pre-requisite of using the roads ????
Vehicle Excise Duty is a tax for polluting, not for using roads. It is required to use a car, it is not required to use roads. That's why all these can use roads without having to buy VED: Pedestrians. Horse riders, Cyclists, Milk floats, Disabled drivers, Tractors, Police vehicles, Ambulances, Fire engines, Military vehicles, Road gritters, Snow ploughs, Zero emission vehicles, Very low emission vehicles, And all vehicles registered before Jan 1st 1973. Oh, and the Queen's limo.
All very interesting, but so what ? The original point was that anyone has a right to drive down this particular road regardless if they are called 'crafty' or 'rat runners' ..... likewise does it really matter whether you call it 'tax' or 'VED' since you will have a job convincing the courts you don't need it either way. In actual fact, lawfully you don't, so long as you can absolve your contract with HM government and declare yourself a 'freeman' !
It was a response to the previous comment about drivers 'paying to use the road' when in fact they don't.
[quote][p][bold]pembury53[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Shoebury_Cyclist[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]pembury53[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Shoebury_Cyclist[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]pembury53[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Russ13[/bold] wrote: "Crafty motorists"..... Seriously!!! It is a ROAD, provided you've paid your VED, insurance, have a valid license and MOT why the hell shouldn't you be able to use any part of the public highway? If some motorists are exceeding the advertised speed limit then that needs to be dealt with but the residents have no right whatsoever to discourage people from using it![/p][/quote]Absolutely right... 'crafty motorist' = normal use of the queens highway by people who have paid to do so 'rat run' = normal use of the queens highway by people who have paid to do so The real 'crafty' one's here are those trying to get effective private residential road status by whinning on about safety. Scrub lane in Hadleigh and Tattersal Gardens etc are classic examples of the same.....[/p][/quote]"by people who have paid to do so" How so? This is not a toll road.[/p][/quote]I was assuming those using this road had paid vehicle excise duty, which is a pre-requisite of using the roads ????[/p][/quote]Vehicle Excise Duty is a tax for polluting, not for using roads. It is required to use a car, it is not required to use roads. That's why all these can use roads without having to buy VED: Pedestrians. Horse riders, Cyclists, Milk floats, Disabled drivers, Tractors, Police vehicles, Ambulances, Fire engines, Military vehicles, Road gritters, Snow ploughs, Zero emission vehicles, Very low emission vehicles, And all vehicles registered before Jan 1st 1973. Oh, and the Queen's limo.[/p][/quote]All very interesting, but so what ? The original point was that anyone has a right to drive down this particular road regardless if they are called 'crafty' or 'rat runners' ..... likewise does it really matter whether you call it 'tax' or 'VED' since you will have a job convincing the courts you don't need it either way. In actual fact, lawfully you don't, so long as you can absolve your contract with HM government and declare yourself a 'freeman' ![/p][/quote]It was a response to the previous comment about drivers 'paying to use the road' when in fact they don't. Shoebury_Cyclist

8:32pm Tue 8 Jan 13

Shoebury_Cyclist says...

John T Pharro wrote:
Ed in wrote:
Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:
pembury53 wrote:
Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:
pembury53 wrote:
Russ13 wrote: "Crafty motorists"..... Seriously!!! It is a ROAD, provided you've paid your VED, insurance, have a valid license and MOT why the hell shouldn't you be able to use any part of the public highway? If some motorists are exceeding the advertised speed limit then that needs to be dealt with but the residents have no right whatsoever to discourage people from using it!
Absolutely right... 'crafty motorist' = normal use of the queens highway by people who have paid to do so 'rat run' = normal use of the queens highway by people who have paid to do so The real 'crafty' one's here are those trying to get effective private residential road status by whinning on about safety. Scrub lane in Hadleigh and Tattersal Gardens etc are classic examples of the same.....
"by people who have paid to do so" How so? This is not a toll road.
I was assuming those using this road had paid vehicle excise duty, which is a pre-requisite of using the roads ????
Vehicle Excise Duty is a tax for polluting, not for using roads. It is required to use a car, it is not required to use roads. That's why all these can use roads without having to buy VED:

Pedestrians.
Horse riders,
Cyclists,
Milk floats,
Disabled drivers,
Tractors,
Police vehicles,
Ambulances,
Fire engines,
Military vehicles,
Road gritters,
Snow ploughs,
Zero emission vehicles,
Very low emission vehicles,
And all vehicles registered before Jan 1st 1973.

Oh, and the Queen's limo.
Really, half of your list causes pollution, and I can use a vehicle which would cause pollution on private land without having to pay "road tax". So it is for the use of the road.
Well said Ed in. As you probably noticed from post similar to yours like mine, this Shoebury Cyclist is never wrong even when he is. Bet he's a bundle of laughs to have a drink with.
If you are too thck to comprehend there is no such thing as 'road tax', and that there hasn't been any such thing as 'road tax' for 75 years, that's your problem.

Roads are paid for through general taxation: council tax, income tax, VAT, VED, tobacco duty, alcohol duty, it all goes into a central pot and is then allocated as required. There is only one hypothecated (look it up in a dictionary) tax in Britain, the TV licence.
[quote][p][bold]John T Pharro[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Ed in[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Shoebury_Cyclist[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]pembury53[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Shoebury_Cyclist[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]pembury53[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Russ13[/bold] wrote: "Crafty motorists"..... Seriously!!! It is a ROAD, provided you've paid your VED, insurance, have a valid license and MOT why the hell shouldn't you be able to use any part of the public highway? If some motorists are exceeding the advertised speed limit then that needs to be dealt with but the residents have no right whatsoever to discourage people from using it![/p][/quote]Absolutely right... 'crafty motorist' = normal use of the queens highway by people who have paid to do so 'rat run' = normal use of the queens highway by people who have paid to do so The real 'crafty' one's here are those trying to get effective private residential road status by whinning on about safety. Scrub lane in Hadleigh and Tattersal Gardens etc are classic examples of the same.....[/p][/quote]"by people who have paid to do so" How so? This is not a toll road.[/p][/quote]I was assuming those using this road had paid vehicle excise duty, which is a pre-requisite of using the roads ????[/p][/quote]Vehicle Excise Duty is a tax for polluting, not for using roads. It is required to use a car, it is not required to use roads. That's why all these can use roads without having to buy VED: Pedestrians. Horse riders, Cyclists, Milk floats, Disabled drivers, Tractors, Police vehicles, Ambulances, Fire engines, Military vehicles, Road gritters, Snow ploughs, Zero emission vehicles, Very low emission vehicles, And all vehicles registered before Jan 1st 1973. Oh, and the Queen's limo.[/p][/quote]Really, half of your list causes pollution, and I can use a vehicle which would cause pollution on private land without having to pay "road tax". So it is for the use of the road.[/p][/quote]Well said Ed in. As you probably noticed from post similar to yours like mine, this Shoebury Cyclist is never wrong even when he is. Bet he's a bundle of laughs to have a drink with.[/p][/quote]If you are too thck to comprehend there is no such thing as 'road tax', and that there hasn't been any such thing as 'road tax' for 75 years, that's your problem. Roads are paid for through general taxation: council tax, income tax, VAT, VED, tobacco duty, alcohol duty, it all goes into a central pot and is then allocated as required. There is only one hypothecated (look it up in a dictionary) tax in Britain, the TV licence. Shoebury_Cyclist

8:21am Wed 9 Jan 13

pembury53 says...

Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:
pembury53 wrote:
Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:
pembury53 wrote:
Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:
pembury53 wrote:
Russ13 wrote: "Crafty motorists"..... Seriously!!! It is a ROAD, provided you've paid your VED, insurance, have a valid license and MOT why the hell shouldn't you be able to use any part of the public highway? If some motorists are exceeding the advertised speed limit then that needs to be dealt with but the residents have no right whatsoever to discourage people from using it!
Absolutely right... 'crafty motorist' = normal use of the queens highway by people who have paid to do so 'rat run' = normal use of the queens highway by people who have paid to do so The real 'crafty' one's here are those trying to get effective private residential road status by whinning on about safety. Scrub lane in Hadleigh and Tattersal Gardens etc are classic examples of the same.....
"by people who have paid to do so" How so? This is not a toll road.
I was assuming those using this road had paid vehicle excise duty, which is a pre-requisite of using the roads ????
Vehicle Excise Duty is a tax for polluting, not for using roads. It is required to use a car, it is not required to use roads. That's why all these can use roads without having to buy VED: Pedestrians. Horse riders, Cyclists, Milk floats, Disabled drivers, Tractors, Police vehicles, Ambulances, Fire engines, Military vehicles, Road gritters, Snow ploughs, Zero emission vehicles, Very low emission vehicles, And all vehicles registered before Jan 1st 1973. Oh, and the Queen's limo.
All very interesting, but so what ? The original point was that anyone has a right to drive down this particular road regardless if they are called 'crafty' or 'rat runners' ..... likewise does it really matter whether you call it 'tax' or 'VED' since you will have a job convincing the courts you don't need it either way. In actual fact, lawfully you don't, so long as you can absolve your contract with HM government and declare yourself a 'freeman' !
It was a response to the previous comment about drivers 'paying to use the road' when in fact they don't.
Well that's nonsense.... people pay to use the road, regardless of trivial points about what you call it, and the fact that VED is based on emissions, to most people is totally irrelavent.... The government prefer to avoid the word 'tax' whenever they can, but it's tax to use the road as far as i'm concerned.
[quote][p][bold]Shoebury_Cyclist[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]pembury53[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Shoebury_Cyclist[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]pembury53[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Shoebury_Cyclist[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]pembury53[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Russ13[/bold] wrote: "Crafty motorists"..... Seriously!!! It is a ROAD, provided you've paid your VED, insurance, have a valid license and MOT why the hell shouldn't you be able to use any part of the public highway? If some motorists are exceeding the advertised speed limit then that needs to be dealt with but the residents have no right whatsoever to discourage people from using it![/p][/quote]Absolutely right... 'crafty motorist' = normal use of the queens highway by people who have paid to do so 'rat run' = normal use of the queens highway by people who have paid to do so The real 'crafty' one's here are those trying to get effective private residential road status by whinning on about safety. Scrub lane in Hadleigh and Tattersal Gardens etc are classic examples of the same.....[/p][/quote]"by people who have paid to do so" How so? This is not a toll road.[/p][/quote]I was assuming those using this road had paid vehicle excise duty, which is a pre-requisite of using the roads ????[/p][/quote]Vehicle Excise Duty is a tax for polluting, not for using roads. It is required to use a car, it is not required to use roads. That's why all these can use roads without having to buy VED: Pedestrians. Horse riders, Cyclists, Milk floats, Disabled drivers, Tractors, Police vehicles, Ambulances, Fire engines, Military vehicles, Road gritters, Snow ploughs, Zero emission vehicles, Very low emission vehicles, And all vehicles registered before Jan 1st 1973. Oh, and the Queen's limo.[/p][/quote]All very interesting, but so what ? The original point was that anyone has a right to drive down this particular road regardless if they are called 'crafty' or 'rat runners' ..... likewise does it really matter whether you call it 'tax' or 'VED' since you will have a job convincing the courts you don't need it either way. In actual fact, lawfully you don't, so long as you can absolve your contract with HM government and declare yourself a 'freeman' ![/p][/quote]It was a response to the previous comment about drivers 'paying to use the road' when in fact they don't.[/p][/quote]Well that's nonsense.... people pay to use the road, regardless of trivial points about what you call it, and the fact that VED is based on emissions, to most people is totally irrelavent.... The government prefer to avoid the word 'tax' whenever they can, but it's tax to use the road as far as i'm concerned. pembury53

8:33am Wed 9 Jan 13

Shoebury_Cyclist says...

pembury53 wrote:
Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:
pembury53 wrote:
Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:
pembury53 wrote:
Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:
pembury53 wrote:
Russ13 wrote: "Crafty motorists"..... Seriously!!! It is a ROAD, provided you've paid your VED, insurance, have a valid license and MOT why the hell shouldn't you be able to use any part of the public highway? If some motorists are exceeding the advertised speed limit then that needs to be dealt with but the residents have no right whatsoever to discourage people from using it!
Absolutely right... 'crafty motorist' = normal use of the queens highway by people who have paid to do so 'rat run' = normal use of the queens highway by people who have paid to do so The real 'crafty' one's here are those trying to get effective private residential road status by whinning on about safety. Scrub lane in Hadleigh and Tattersal Gardens etc are classic examples of the same.....
"by people who have paid to do so" How so? This is not a toll road.
I was assuming those using this road had paid vehicle excise duty, which is a pre-requisite of using the roads ????
Vehicle Excise Duty is a tax for polluting, not for using roads. It is required to use a car, it is not required to use roads. That's why all these can use roads without having to buy VED: Pedestrians. Horse riders, Cyclists, Milk floats, Disabled drivers, Tractors, Police vehicles, Ambulances, Fire engines, Military vehicles, Road gritters, Snow ploughs, Zero emission vehicles, Very low emission vehicles, And all vehicles registered before Jan 1st 1973. Oh, and the Queen's limo.
All very interesting, but so what ? The original point was that anyone has a right to drive down this particular road regardless if they are called 'crafty' or 'rat runners' ..... likewise does it really matter whether you call it 'tax' or 'VED' since you will have a job convincing the courts you don't need it either way. In actual fact, lawfully you don't, so long as you can absolve your contract with HM government and declare yourself a 'freeman' !
It was a response to the previous comment about drivers 'paying to use the road' when in fact they don't.
Well that's nonsense.... people pay to use the road, regardless of trivial points about what you call it, and the fact that VED is based on emissions, to most people is totally irrelavent.... The government prefer to avoid the word 'tax' whenever they can, but it's tax to use the road as far as i'm concerned.
No, it's tax to use a car. If you don't pay your VED you can still use roads, you just can't use the car. You can walk, you can ride a bicycle, you can ride a horse, you can use a zero emission or very low emission vehicle, or you can use a vehicle registered before Jan 1st 1973.

If VED was a tax for using roads you would not be able to use roads in any way at all unless you paid VED.
[quote][p][bold]pembury53[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Shoebury_Cyclist[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]pembury53[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Shoebury_Cyclist[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]pembury53[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Shoebury_Cyclist[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]pembury53[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Russ13[/bold] wrote: "Crafty motorists"..... Seriously!!! It is a ROAD, provided you've paid your VED, insurance, have a valid license and MOT why the hell shouldn't you be able to use any part of the public highway? If some motorists are exceeding the advertised speed limit then that needs to be dealt with but the residents have no right whatsoever to discourage people from using it![/p][/quote]Absolutely right... 'crafty motorist' = normal use of the queens highway by people who have paid to do so 'rat run' = normal use of the queens highway by people who have paid to do so The real 'crafty' one's here are those trying to get effective private residential road status by whinning on about safety. Scrub lane in Hadleigh and Tattersal Gardens etc are classic examples of the same.....[/p][/quote]"by people who have paid to do so" How so? This is not a toll road.[/p][/quote]I was assuming those using this road had paid vehicle excise duty, which is a pre-requisite of using the roads ????[/p][/quote]Vehicle Excise Duty is a tax for polluting, not for using roads. It is required to use a car, it is not required to use roads. That's why all these can use roads without having to buy VED: Pedestrians. Horse riders, Cyclists, Milk floats, Disabled drivers, Tractors, Police vehicles, Ambulances, Fire engines, Military vehicles, Road gritters, Snow ploughs, Zero emission vehicles, Very low emission vehicles, And all vehicles registered before Jan 1st 1973. Oh, and the Queen's limo.[/p][/quote]All very interesting, but so what ? The original point was that anyone has a right to drive down this particular road regardless if they are called 'crafty' or 'rat runners' ..... likewise does it really matter whether you call it 'tax' or 'VED' since you will have a job convincing the courts you don't need it either way. In actual fact, lawfully you don't, so long as you can absolve your contract with HM government and declare yourself a 'freeman' ![/p][/quote]It was a response to the previous comment about drivers 'paying to use the road' when in fact they don't.[/p][/quote]Well that's nonsense.... people pay to use the road, regardless of trivial points about what you call it, and the fact that VED is based on emissions, to most people is totally irrelavent.... The government prefer to avoid the word 'tax' whenever they can, but it's tax to use the road as far as i'm concerned.[/p][/quote]No, it's tax to use a car. If you don't pay your VED you can still use roads, you just can't use the car. You can walk, you can ride a bicycle, you can ride a horse, you can use a zero emission or very low emission vehicle, or you can use a vehicle registered before Jan 1st 1973. If VED was a tax for using roads you would not be able to use roads in any way at all unless you paid VED. Shoebury_Cyclist

11:09am Wed 9 Jan 13

Alekhine says...

I have to agree with pembury53. I could leave a car running on my driveway pumping out pollution and not pay any VED. It is not a tax on pollution as the car is not purposely designed to pollute. It is designed to use the road, any pollution is incidental.

We have a road use tax graded by vehicle emissions. However such a tax is calculated or applied (number of hedgehogs runover maybe?), it will always be a tax on road use (not roadkill).
I have to agree with pembury53. I could leave a car running on my driveway pumping out pollution and not pay any VED. It is not a tax on pollution as the car is not purposely designed to pollute. It is designed to use the road, any pollution is incidental. We have a road use tax graded by vehicle emissions. However such a tax is calculated or applied (number of hedgehogs runover maybe?), it will always be a tax on road use (not roadkill). Alekhine

11:30am Wed 9 Jan 13

notinwestcliffanymore says...

Is a tv licence too own a tv or to watch it? does internet tv count, if i have a tv in my loft but not plug in does it require hypothecated tax to be paid how about if i declare my tv SORN, how about if i watch tv in my car whilst sitting on my drive untaxed. Again is it the signal or the hardware that is taxable.
Is a tv licence too own a tv or to watch it? does internet tv count, if i have a tv in my loft but not plug in does it require hypothecated tax to be paid how about if i declare my tv SORN, how about if i watch tv in my car whilst sitting on my drive untaxed. Again is it the signal or the hardware that is taxable. notinwestcliffanymore

12:17pm Wed 9 Jan 13

Shoebury_Cyclist says...

Alekhine wrote:
I have to agree with pembury53. I could leave a car running on my driveway pumping out pollution and not pay any VED. It is not a tax on pollution as the car is not purposely designed to pollute. It is designed to use the road, any pollution is incidental.

We have a road use tax graded by vehicle emissions. However such a tax is calculated or applied (number of hedgehogs runover maybe?), it will always be a tax on road use (not roadkill).
It is not a tax on road use. If it was EVERYONE would have to pay it whether they owned a car or not.
[quote][p][bold]Alekhine[/bold] wrote: I have to agree with pembury53. I could leave a car running on my driveway pumping out pollution and not pay any VED. It is not a tax on pollution as the car is not purposely designed to pollute. It is designed to use the road, any pollution is incidental. We have a road use tax graded by vehicle emissions. However such a tax is calculated or applied (number of hedgehogs runover maybe?), it will always be a tax on road use (not roadkill).[/p][/quote]It is not a tax on road use. If it was EVERYONE would have to pay it whether they owned a car or not. Shoebury_Cyclist

12:23pm Wed 9 Jan 13

Shoebury_Cyclist says...

notinwestcliffanymor
e
wrote:
Is a tv licence too own a tv or to watch it? does internet tv count, if i have a tv in my loft but not plug in does it require hypothecated tax to be paid how about if i declare my tv SORN, how about if i watch tv in my car whilst sitting on my drive untaxed. Again is it the signal or the hardware that is taxable.
A TV licence is a tax for watching TV as it is broadcast, it is not a tax to own a TV. From the TV Licensing website:

"You don t need a licence if you don t use any of these devices to watch or record television programmes as they re being shown on TV - for example, if you use your TV only to watch DVDs or play video games, or you only watch ‘catch up’ services like BBC iPlayer or 4oD. "


Vehicle Excise Duty is a tax on car ownership and emissions. That is why it is levied on CO2 or engine size depending on the age of the vehicle.

It is not a tax for using roads. That is why pedestrians can walk on roads, cyclists can cycle on roads, horseriders can ride horses on roads, those who have them can use electric and low emission vehicles on roads, and others can drive cars registered before 1973 on roads, without having to pay Vehicle Excise Duty. Because the tax is levied on the vehicle, not on the use of the roads.

If it was a tax for using roads all those would have to pay it.
[quote][p][bold]notinwestcliffanymor e[/bold] wrote: Is a tv licence too own a tv or to watch it? does internet tv count, if i have a tv in my loft but not plug in does it require hypothecated tax to be paid how about if i declare my tv SORN, how about if i watch tv in my car whilst sitting on my drive untaxed. Again is it the signal or the hardware that is taxable.[/p][/quote]A TV licence is a tax for watching TV as it is broadcast, it is not a tax to own a TV. From the TV Licensing website: "You don t need a licence if you don t use any of these devices to watch or record television programmes as they re being shown on TV - for example, if you use your TV only to watch DVDs or play video games, or you only watch ‘catch up’ services like BBC iPlayer or 4oD. " Vehicle Excise Duty is a tax on car ownership and emissions. That is why it is levied on CO2 or engine size depending on the age of the vehicle. It is not a tax for using roads. That is why pedestrians can walk on roads, cyclists can cycle on roads, horseriders can ride horses on roads, those who have them can use electric and low emission vehicles on roads, and others can drive cars registered before 1973 on roads, without having to pay Vehicle Excise Duty. Because the tax is levied on the vehicle, not on the use of the roads. If it was a tax for using roads all those would have to pay it. Shoebury_Cyclist

12:48pm Wed 9 Jan 13

notinwestcliffanymore says...

right so i don't need a tv tax (licence) unless i watch live tv, but also do not need road tax unless i drive on a public highway. I can have a car and a tv on my drive (as in westcliff) and not pay tax on either.
right so i don't need a tv tax (licence) unless i watch live tv, but also do not need road tax unless i drive on a public highway. I can have a car and a tv on my drive (as in westcliff) and not pay tax on either. notinwestcliffanymore

1:22pm Wed 9 Jan 13

Broadwaywatch says...

asbo. just the truth wrote:
the residents will regret it. speed bumps are noisy, dustcarts and skip lorries make your house shake when the roll over them and the boyracers typically don't slow down to go over them unless they're the ferocious variety like those in pall mall which still scrape the underside of your car at 10 mph.
oh ye the ones in Pall Mall......Why so high....must be the highest in Essex.
[quote][p][bold]asbo. just the truth[/bold] wrote: the residents will regret it. speed bumps are noisy, dustcarts and skip lorries make your house shake when the roll over them and the boyracers typically don't slow down to go over them unless they're the ferocious variety like those in pall mall which still scrape the underside of your car at 10 mph.[/p][/quote]oh ye the ones in Pall Mall......Why so high....must be the highest in Essex. Broadwaywatch

1:28pm Wed 9 Jan 13

Alekhine says...

Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:
Alekhine wrote: I have to agree with pembury53. I could leave a car running on my driveway pumping out pollution and not pay any VED. It is not a tax on pollution as the car is not purposely designed to pollute. It is designed to use the road, any pollution is incidental. We have a road use tax graded by vehicle emissions. However such a tax is calculated or applied (number of hedgehogs runover maybe?), it will always be a tax on road use (not roadkill).
It is not a tax on road use. If it was EVERYONE would have to pay it whether they owned a car or not.
ONLY car owners had to pay the original pre 1937 road tax, which you accept was a tax for the use of the road. There was no need for exceptions to be made under this law for bicycles, milkfloats etc as the law was simply not drafted to apply to them in the first place.
.
The version of this tax that we have now does apply to all vehicles with the exception of, and i quote:-

Horse riders,
Cyclists,
Milk floats,
Disabled drivers,
Tractors,
Police vehicles,
Ambulances,
Fire engines,
Military vehicles,
Road gritters,
Snow ploughs,
Zero emission vehicles,
Very low emission vehicles,
And all vehicles registered before Jan 1st 1973.

Oh, and the Queen's limo.

EVERY vehicle is encompassed under the current law but some are zero rated.

The result of this law is that the cost of legally running a car on the public road (fulfilling its design and purpose) is increased. The government is very disingenuous about the way it describes taxes and will never call this a road tax. You can put lipstick on a pig but....
[quote][p][bold]Shoebury_Cyclist[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Alekhine[/bold] wrote: I have to agree with pembury53. I could leave a car running on my driveway pumping out pollution and not pay any VED. It is not a tax on pollution as the car is not purposely designed to pollute. It is designed to use the road, any pollution is incidental. We have a road use tax graded by vehicle emissions. However such a tax is calculated or applied (number of hedgehogs runover maybe?), it will always be a tax on road use (not roadkill).[/p][/quote]It is not a tax on road use. If it was EVERYONE would have to pay it whether they owned a car or not.[/p][/quote]ONLY car owners had to pay the original pre 1937 road tax, which you accept was a tax for the use of the road. There was no need for exceptions to be made under this law for bicycles, milkfloats etc as the law was simply not drafted to apply to them in the first place. . The version of this tax that we have now does apply to all vehicles with the exception of, and i quote:- Horse riders, Cyclists, Milk floats, Disabled drivers, Tractors, Police vehicles, Ambulances, Fire engines, Military vehicles, Road gritters, Snow ploughs, Zero emission vehicles, Very low emission vehicles, And all vehicles registered before Jan 1st 1973. Oh, and the Queen's limo. EVERY vehicle is encompassed under the current law but some are zero rated. The result of this law is that the cost of legally running a car on the public road (fulfilling its design and purpose) is increased. The government is very disingenuous about the way it describes taxes and will never call this a road tax. You can put lipstick on a pig but.... Alekhine

1:35pm Wed 9 Jan 13

Broadwaywatch says...

Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:
John T Pharro wrote:
Ed in wrote:
Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:
pembury53 wrote:
Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:
pembury53 wrote:
Russ13 wrote: "Crafty motorists"..... Seriously!!! It is a ROAD, provided you've paid your VED, insurance, have a valid license and MOT why the hell shouldn't you be able to use any part of the public highway? If some motorists are exceeding the advertised speed limit then that needs to be dealt with but the residents have no right whatsoever to discourage people from using it!
Absolutely right... 'crafty motorist' = normal use of the queens highway by people who have paid to do so 'rat run' = normal use of the queens highway by people who have paid to do so The real 'crafty' one's here are those trying to get effective private residential road status by whinning on about safety. Scrub lane in Hadleigh and Tattersal Gardens etc are classic examples of the same.....
"by people who have paid to do so" How so? This is not a toll road.
I was assuming those using this road had paid vehicle excise duty, which is a pre-requisite of using the roads ????
Vehicle Excise Duty is a tax for polluting, not for using roads. It is required to use a car, it is not required to use roads. That's why all these can use roads without having to buy VED:

Pedestrians.
Horse riders,
Cyclists,
Milk floats,
Disabled drivers,
Tractors,
Police vehicles,
Ambulances,
Fire engines,
Military vehicles,
Road gritters,
Snow ploughs,
Zero emission vehicles,
Very low emission vehicles,
And all vehicles registered before Jan 1st 1973.

Oh, and the Queen's limo.
Really, half of your list causes pollution, and I can use a vehicle which would cause pollution on private land without having to pay "road tax". So it is for the use of the road.
Well said Ed in. As you probably noticed from post similar to yours like mine, this Shoebury Cyclist is never wrong even when he is. Bet he's a bundle of laughs to have a drink with.
If you are too thck to comprehend there is no such thing as 'road tax', and that there hasn't been any such thing as 'road tax' for 75 years, that's your problem.

Roads are paid for through general taxation: council tax, income tax, VAT, VED, tobacco duty, alcohol duty, it all goes into a central pot and is then allocated as required. There is only one hypothecated (look it up in a dictionary) tax in Britain, the TV licence.
who rang his bell. Give it a rest please. You have made your point. Go for a ride and cool down
[quote][p][bold]Shoebury_Cyclist[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]John T Pharro[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Ed in[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Shoebury_Cyclist[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]pembury53[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Shoebury_Cyclist[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]pembury53[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Russ13[/bold] wrote: "Crafty motorists"..... Seriously!!! It is a ROAD, provided you've paid your VED, insurance, have a valid license and MOT why the hell shouldn't you be able to use any part of the public highway? If some motorists are exceeding the advertised speed limit then that needs to be dealt with but the residents have no right whatsoever to discourage people from using it![/p][/quote]Absolutely right... 'crafty motorist' = normal use of the queens highway by people who have paid to do so 'rat run' = normal use of the queens highway by people who have paid to do so The real 'crafty' one's here are those trying to get effective private residential road status by whinning on about safety. Scrub lane in Hadleigh and Tattersal Gardens etc are classic examples of the same.....[/p][/quote]"by people who have paid to do so" How so? This is not a toll road.[/p][/quote]I was assuming those using this road had paid vehicle excise duty, which is a pre-requisite of using the roads ????[/p][/quote]Vehicle Excise Duty is a tax for polluting, not for using roads. It is required to use a car, it is not required to use roads. That's why all these can use roads without having to buy VED: Pedestrians. Horse riders, Cyclists, Milk floats, Disabled drivers, Tractors, Police vehicles, Ambulances, Fire engines, Military vehicles, Road gritters, Snow ploughs, Zero emission vehicles, Very low emission vehicles, And all vehicles registered before Jan 1st 1973. Oh, and the Queen's limo.[/p][/quote]Really, half of your list causes pollution, and I can use a vehicle which would cause pollution on private land without having to pay "road tax". So it is for the use of the road.[/p][/quote]Well said Ed in. As you probably noticed from post similar to yours like mine, this Shoebury Cyclist is never wrong even when he is. Bet he's a bundle of laughs to have a drink with.[/p][/quote]If you are too thck to comprehend there is no such thing as 'road tax', and that there hasn't been any such thing as 'road tax' for 75 years, that's your problem. Roads are paid for through general taxation: council tax, income tax, VAT, VED, tobacco duty, alcohol duty, it all goes into a central pot and is then allocated as required. There is only one hypothecated (look it up in a dictionary) tax in Britain, the TV licence.[/p][/quote]who rang his bell. Give it a rest please. You have made your point. Go for a ride and cool down Broadwaywatch

1:55pm Wed 9 Jan 13

Shoebury_Cyclist says...

Broadwaywatch wrote:
Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:
John T Pharro wrote:
Ed in wrote:
Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:
pembury53 wrote:
Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:
pembury53 wrote:
Russ13 wrote: "Crafty motorists"..... Seriously!!! It is a ROAD, provided you've paid your VED, insurance, have a valid license and MOT why the hell shouldn't you be able to use any part of the public highway? If some motorists are exceeding the advertised speed limit then that needs to be dealt with but the residents have no right whatsoever to discourage people from using it!
Absolutely right... 'crafty motorist' = normal use of the queens highway by people who have paid to do so 'rat run' = normal use of the queens highway by people who have paid to do so The real 'crafty' one's here are those trying to get effective private residential road status by whinning on about safety. Scrub lane in Hadleigh and Tattersal Gardens etc are classic examples of the same.....
"by people who have paid to do so" How so? This is not a toll road.
I was assuming those using this road had paid vehicle excise duty, which is a pre-requisite of using the roads ????
Vehicle Excise Duty is a tax for polluting, not for using roads. It is required to use a car, it is not required to use roads. That's why all these can use roads without having to buy VED:

Pedestrians.
Horse riders,
Cyclists,
Milk floats,
Disabled drivers,
Tractors,
Police vehicles,
Ambulances,
Fire engines,
Military vehicles,
Road gritters,
Snow ploughs,
Zero emission vehicles,
Very low emission vehicles,
And all vehicles registered before Jan 1st 1973.

Oh, and the Queen's limo.
Really, half of your list causes pollution, and I can use a vehicle which would cause pollution on private land without having to pay "road tax". So it is for the use of the road.
Well said Ed in. As you probably noticed from post similar to yours like mine, this Shoebury Cyclist is never wrong even when he is. Bet he's a bundle of laughs to have a drink with.
If you are too thck to comprehend there is no such thing as 'road tax', and that there hasn't been any such thing as 'road tax' for 75 years, that's your problem.

Roads are paid for through general taxation: council tax, income tax, VAT, VED, tobacco duty, alcohol duty, it all goes into a central pot and is then allocated as required. There is only one hypothecated (look it up in a dictionary) tax in Britain, the TV licence.
who rang his bell. Give it a rest please. You have made your point. Go for a ride and cool down
Clearly the point is not getting home. Or I wouldn't have to keep repeating myself.
[quote][p][bold]Broadwaywatch[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Shoebury_Cyclist[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]John T Pharro[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Ed in[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Shoebury_Cyclist[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]pembury53[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Shoebury_Cyclist[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]pembury53[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Russ13[/bold] wrote: "Crafty motorists"..... Seriously!!! It is a ROAD, provided you've paid your VED, insurance, have a valid license and MOT why the hell shouldn't you be able to use any part of the public highway? If some motorists are exceeding the advertised speed limit then that needs to be dealt with but the residents have no right whatsoever to discourage people from using it![/p][/quote]Absolutely right... 'crafty motorist' = normal use of the queens highway by people who have paid to do so 'rat run' = normal use of the queens highway by people who have paid to do so The real 'crafty' one's here are those trying to get effective private residential road status by whinning on about safety. Scrub lane in Hadleigh and Tattersal Gardens etc are classic examples of the same.....[/p][/quote]"by people who have paid to do so" How so? This is not a toll road.[/p][/quote]I was assuming those using this road had paid vehicle excise duty, which is a pre-requisite of using the roads ????[/p][/quote]Vehicle Excise Duty is a tax for polluting, not for using roads. It is required to use a car, it is not required to use roads. That's why all these can use roads without having to buy VED: Pedestrians. Horse riders, Cyclists, Milk floats, Disabled drivers, Tractors, Police vehicles, Ambulances, Fire engines, Military vehicles, Road gritters, Snow ploughs, Zero emission vehicles, Very low emission vehicles, And all vehicles registered before Jan 1st 1973. Oh, and the Queen's limo.[/p][/quote]Really, half of your list causes pollution, and I can use a vehicle which would cause pollution on private land without having to pay "road tax". So it is for the use of the road.[/p][/quote]Well said Ed in. As you probably noticed from post similar to yours like mine, this Shoebury Cyclist is never wrong even when he is. Bet he's a bundle of laughs to have a drink with.[/p][/quote]If you are too thck to comprehend there is no such thing as 'road tax', and that there hasn't been any such thing as 'road tax' for 75 years, that's your problem. Roads are paid for through general taxation: council tax, income tax, VAT, VED, tobacco duty, alcohol duty, it all goes into a central pot and is then allocated as required. There is only one hypothecated (look it up in a dictionary) tax in Britain, the TV licence.[/p][/quote]who rang his bell. Give it a rest please. You have made your point. Go for a ride and cool down[/p][/quote]Clearly the point is not getting home. Or I wouldn't have to keep repeating myself. Shoebury_Cyclist

2:13pm Wed 9 Jan 13

John T Pharro says...

Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:
Broadwaywatch wrote:
Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:
John T Pharro wrote:
Ed in wrote:
Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:
pembury53 wrote:
Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:
pembury53 wrote:
Russ13 wrote: "Crafty motorists"..... Seriously!!! It is a ROAD, provided you've paid your VED, insurance, have a valid license and MOT why the hell shouldn't you be able to use any part of the public highway? If some motorists are exceeding the advertised speed limit then that needs to be dealt with but the residents have no right whatsoever to discourage people from using it!
Absolutely right... 'crafty motorist' = normal use of the queens highway by people who have paid to do so 'rat run' = normal use of the queens highway by people who have paid to do so The real 'crafty' one's here are those trying to get effective private residential road status by whinning on about safety. Scrub lane in Hadleigh and Tattersal Gardens etc are classic examples of the same.....
"by people who have paid to do so" How so? This is not a toll road.
I was assuming those using this road had paid vehicle excise duty, which is a pre-requisite of using the roads ????
Vehicle Excise Duty is a tax for polluting, not for using roads. It is required to use a car, it is not required to use roads. That's why all these can use roads without having to buy VED:

Pedestrians.
Horse riders,
Cyclists,
Milk floats,
Disabled drivers,
Tractors,
Police vehicles,
Ambulances,
Fire engines,
Military vehicles,
Road gritters,
Snow ploughs,
Zero emission vehicles,
Very low emission vehicles,
And all vehicles registered before Jan 1st 1973.

Oh, and the Queen's limo.
Really, half of your list causes pollution, and I can use a vehicle which would cause pollution on private land without having to pay "road tax". So it is for the use of the road.
Well said Ed in. As you probably noticed from post similar to yours like mine, this Shoebury Cyclist is never wrong even when he is. Bet he's a bundle of laughs to have a drink with.
If you are too thck to comprehend there is no such thing as 'road tax', and that there hasn't been any such thing as 'road tax' for 75 years, that's your problem.

Roads are paid for through general taxation: council tax, income tax, VAT, VED, tobacco duty, alcohol duty, it all goes into a central pot and is then allocated as required. There is only one hypothecated (look it up in a dictionary) tax in Britain, the TV licence.
who rang his bell. Give it a rest please. You have made your point. Go for a ride and cool down
Clearly the point is not getting home. Or I wouldn't have to keep repeating myself.
No it is you who doesn't get the point and stop calling people thick just because you are labouring what most posters agree you are being pandantic about. You cannot use a private vehicle on a public road without paying for vehicle excise duty to the Government which is a form of tax. It is just like people still refer to paying their "rates" when it is now called Council Tax.
[quote][p][bold]Shoebury_Cyclist[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Broadwaywatch[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Shoebury_Cyclist[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]John T Pharro[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Ed in[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Shoebury_Cyclist[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]pembury53[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Shoebury_Cyclist[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]pembury53[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Russ13[/bold] wrote: "Crafty motorists"..... Seriously!!! It is a ROAD, provided you've paid your VED, insurance, have a valid license and MOT why the hell shouldn't you be able to use any part of the public highway? If some motorists are exceeding the advertised speed limit then that needs to be dealt with but the residents have no right whatsoever to discourage people from using it![/p][/quote]Absolutely right... 'crafty motorist' = normal use of the queens highway by people who have paid to do so 'rat run' = normal use of the queens highway by people who have paid to do so The real 'crafty' one's here are those trying to get effective private residential road status by whinning on about safety. Scrub lane in Hadleigh and Tattersal Gardens etc are classic examples of the same.....[/p][/quote]"by people who have paid to do so" How so? This is not a toll road.[/p][/quote]I was assuming those using this road had paid vehicle excise duty, which is a pre-requisite of using the roads ????[/p][/quote]Vehicle Excise Duty is a tax for polluting, not for using roads. It is required to use a car, it is not required to use roads. That's why all these can use roads without having to buy VED: Pedestrians. Horse riders, Cyclists, Milk floats, Disabled drivers, Tractors, Police vehicles, Ambulances, Fire engines, Military vehicles, Road gritters, Snow ploughs, Zero emission vehicles, Very low emission vehicles, And all vehicles registered before Jan 1st 1973. Oh, and the Queen's limo.[/p][/quote]Really, half of your list causes pollution, and I can use a vehicle which would cause pollution on private land without having to pay "road tax". So it is for the use of the road.[/p][/quote]Well said Ed in. As you probably noticed from post similar to yours like mine, this Shoebury Cyclist is never wrong even when he is. Bet he's a bundle of laughs to have a drink with.[/p][/quote]If you are too thck to comprehend there is no such thing as 'road tax', and that there hasn't been any such thing as 'road tax' for 75 years, that's your problem. Roads are paid for through general taxation: council tax, income tax, VAT, VED, tobacco duty, alcohol duty, it all goes into a central pot and is then allocated as required. There is only one hypothecated (look it up in a dictionary) tax in Britain, the TV licence.[/p][/quote]who rang his bell. Give it a rest please. You have made your point. Go for a ride and cool down[/p][/quote]Clearly the point is not getting home. Or I wouldn't have to keep repeating myself.[/p][/quote]No it is you who doesn't get the point and stop calling people thick just because you are labouring what most posters agree you are being pandantic about. You cannot use a private vehicle on a public road without paying for vehicle excise duty to the Government which is a form of tax. It is just like people still refer to paying their "rates" when it is now called Council Tax. John T Pharro

2:36pm Wed 9 Jan 13

J_blond says...

Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:
Broadwaywatch wrote:
Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:
John T Pharro wrote:
Ed in wrote:
Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:
pembury53 wrote:
Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:
pembury53 wrote:
Russ13 wrote: "Crafty motorists"..... Seriously!!! It is a ROAD, provided you've paid your VED, insurance, have a valid license and MOT why the hell shouldn't you be able to use any part of the public highway? If some motorists are exceeding the advertised speed limit then that needs to be dealt with but the residents have no right whatsoever to discourage people from using it!
Absolutely right... 'crafty motorist' = normal use of the queens highway by people who have paid to do so 'rat run' = normal use of the queens highway by people who have paid to do so The real 'crafty' one's here are those trying to get effective private residential road status by whinning on about safety. Scrub lane in Hadleigh and Tattersal Gardens etc are classic examples of the same.....
"by people who have paid to do so" How so? This is not a toll road.
I was assuming those using this road had paid vehicle excise duty, which is a pre-requisite of using the roads ????
Vehicle Excise Duty is a tax for polluting, not for using roads. It is required to use a car, it is not required to use roads. That's why all these can use roads without having to buy VED: Pedestrians. Horse riders, Cyclists, Milk floats, Disabled drivers, Tractors, Police vehicles, Ambulances, Fire engines, Military vehicles, Road gritters, Snow ploughs, Zero emission vehicles, Very low emission vehicles, And all vehicles registered before Jan 1st 1973. Oh, and the Queen's limo.
Really, half of your list causes pollution, and I can use a vehicle which would cause pollution on private land without having to pay "road tax". So it is for the use of the road.
Well said Ed in. As you probably noticed from post similar to yours like mine, this Shoebury Cyclist is never wrong even when he is. Bet he's a bundle of laughs to have a drink with.
If you are too thck to comprehend there is no such thing as 'road tax', and that there hasn't been any such thing as 'road tax' for 75 years, that's your problem. Roads are paid for through general taxation: council tax, income tax, VAT, VED, tobacco duty, alcohol duty, it all goes into a central pot and is then allocated as required. There is only one hypothecated (look it up in a dictionary) tax in Britain, the TV licence.
who rang his bell. Give it a rest please. You have made your point. Go for a ride and cool down
Clearly the point is not getting home. Or I wouldn't have to keep repeating myself.
Why do you have to? Ok so people call it road tax, so what? Is it a big deal? Let them believe what they want - why do you want to change everyone's opinions? They're entitled to their own, right or wrong

Usually when I see someone say something I think is wrong, I leave it. Why do you have to go on and on repeating it!

Anyway to the post that started this - I do pay to use the roads, I pay council tax.
[quote][p][bold]Shoebury_Cyclist[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Broadwaywatch[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Shoebury_Cyclist[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]John T Pharro[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Ed in[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Shoebury_Cyclist[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]pembury53[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Shoebury_Cyclist[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]pembury53[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Russ13[/bold] wrote: "Crafty motorists"..... Seriously!!! It is a ROAD, provided you've paid your VED, insurance, have a valid license and MOT why the hell shouldn't you be able to use any part of the public highway? If some motorists are exceeding the advertised speed limit then that needs to be dealt with but the residents have no right whatsoever to discourage people from using it![/p][/quote]Absolutely right... 'crafty motorist' = normal use of the queens highway by people who have paid to do so 'rat run' = normal use of the queens highway by people who have paid to do so The real 'crafty' one's here are those trying to get effective private residential road status by whinning on about safety. Scrub lane in Hadleigh and Tattersal Gardens etc are classic examples of the same.....[/p][/quote]"by people who have paid to do so" How so? This is not a toll road.[/p][/quote]I was assuming those using this road had paid vehicle excise duty, which is a pre-requisite of using the roads ????[/p][/quote]Vehicle Excise Duty is a tax for polluting, not for using roads. It is required to use a car, it is not required to use roads. That's why all these can use roads without having to buy VED: Pedestrians. Horse riders, Cyclists, Milk floats, Disabled drivers, Tractors, Police vehicles, Ambulances, Fire engines, Military vehicles, Road gritters, Snow ploughs, Zero emission vehicles, Very low emission vehicles, And all vehicles registered before Jan 1st 1973. Oh, and the Queen's limo.[/p][/quote]Really, half of your list causes pollution, and I can use a vehicle which would cause pollution on private land without having to pay "road tax". So it is for the use of the road.[/p][/quote]Well said Ed in. As you probably noticed from post similar to yours like mine, this Shoebury Cyclist is never wrong even when he is. Bet he's a bundle of laughs to have a drink with.[/p][/quote]If you are too thck to comprehend there is no such thing as 'road tax', and that there hasn't been any such thing as 'road tax' for 75 years, that's your problem. Roads are paid for through general taxation: council tax, income tax, VAT, VED, tobacco duty, alcohol duty, it all goes into a central pot and is then allocated as required. There is only one hypothecated (look it up in a dictionary) tax in Britain, the TV licence.[/p][/quote]who rang his bell. Give it a rest please. You have made your point. Go for a ride and cool down[/p][/quote]Clearly the point is not getting home. Or I wouldn't have to keep repeating myself.[/p][/quote]Why do you have to? Ok so people call it road tax, so what? Is it a big deal? Let them believe what they want - why do you want to change everyone's opinions? They're entitled to their own, right or wrong Usually when I see someone say something I think is wrong, I leave it. Why do you have to go on and on repeating it! Anyway to the post that started this - I do pay to use the roads, I pay council tax. J_blond

5:12pm Wed 9 Jan 13

Shoebury_Cyclist says...

J_blond wrote:
Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:
Broadwaywatch wrote:
Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:
John T Pharro wrote:
Ed in wrote:
Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:
pembury53 wrote:
Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:
pembury53 wrote:
Russ13 wrote: "Crafty motorists"..... Seriously!!! It is a ROAD, provided you've paid your VED, insurance, have a valid license and MOT why the hell shouldn't you be able to use any part of the public highway? If some motorists are exceeding the advertised speed limit then that needs to be dealt with but the residents have no right whatsoever to discourage people from using it!
Absolutely right... 'crafty motorist' = normal use of the queens highway by people who have paid to do so 'rat run' = normal use of the queens highway by people who have paid to do so The real 'crafty' one's here are those trying to get effective private residential road status by whinning on about safety. Scrub lane in Hadleigh and Tattersal Gardens etc are classic examples of the same.....
"by people who have paid to do so" How so? This is not a toll road.
I was assuming those using this road had paid vehicle excise duty, which is a pre-requisite of using the roads ????
Vehicle Excise Duty is a tax for polluting, not for using roads. It is required to use a car, it is not required to use roads. That's why all these can use roads without having to buy VED: Pedestrians. Horse riders, Cyclists, Milk floats, Disabled drivers, Tractors, Police vehicles, Ambulances, Fire engines, Military vehicles, Road gritters, Snow ploughs, Zero emission vehicles, Very low emission vehicles, And all vehicles registered before Jan 1st 1973. Oh, and the Queen's limo.
Really, half of your list causes pollution, and I can use a vehicle which would cause pollution on private land without having to pay "road tax". So it is for the use of the road.
Well said Ed in. As you probably noticed from post similar to yours like mine, this Shoebury Cyclist is never wrong even when he is. Bet he's a bundle of laughs to have a drink with.
If you are too thck to comprehend there is no such thing as 'road tax', and that there hasn't been any such thing as 'road tax' for 75 years, that's your problem. Roads are paid for through general taxation: council tax, income tax, VAT, VED, tobacco duty, alcohol duty, it all goes into a central pot and is then allocated as required. There is only one hypothecated (look it up in a dictionary) tax in Britain, the TV licence.
who rang his bell. Give it a rest please. You have made your point. Go for a ride and cool down
Clearly the point is not getting home. Or I wouldn't have to keep repeating myself.
Why do you have to? Ok so people call it road tax, so what? Is it a big deal? Let them believe what they want - why do you want to change everyone's opinions? They're entitled to their own, right or wrong

Usually when I see someone say something I think is wrong, I leave it. Why do you have to go on and on repeating it!

Anyway to the post that started this - I do pay to use the roads, I pay council tax.
Again, council tax is not a fee to use roads, it pays for the building and upkeep of roads, but non-council tax payers can still use roads.

No-one in the UK is charged a fee to use the roads, unless that road is a toll road.

Too many people think paying VED gives them a right to use roads over and above road users who don't have to pay VED.


That is why I will always challenge that misconception.
[quote][p][bold]J_blond[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Shoebury_Cyclist[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Broadwaywatch[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Shoebury_Cyclist[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]John T Pharro[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Ed in[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Shoebury_Cyclist[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]pembury53[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Shoebury_Cyclist[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]pembury53[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Russ13[/bold] wrote: "Crafty motorists"..... Seriously!!! It is a ROAD, provided you've paid your VED, insurance, have a valid license and MOT why the hell shouldn't you be able to use any part of the public highway? If some motorists are exceeding the advertised speed limit then that needs to be dealt with but the residents have no right whatsoever to discourage people from using it![/p][/quote]Absolutely right... 'crafty motorist' = normal use of the queens highway by people who have paid to do so 'rat run' = normal use of the queens highway by people who have paid to do so The real 'crafty' one's here are those trying to get effective private residential road status by whinning on about safety. Scrub lane in Hadleigh and Tattersal Gardens etc are classic examples of the same.....[/p][/quote]"by people who have paid to do so" How so? This is not a toll road.[/p][/quote]I was assuming those using this road had paid vehicle excise duty, which is a pre-requisite of using the roads ????[/p][/quote]Vehicle Excise Duty is a tax for polluting, not for using roads. It is required to use a car, it is not required to use roads. That's why all these can use roads without having to buy VED: Pedestrians. Horse riders, Cyclists, Milk floats, Disabled drivers, Tractors, Police vehicles, Ambulances, Fire engines, Military vehicles, Road gritters, Snow ploughs, Zero emission vehicles, Very low emission vehicles, And all vehicles registered before Jan 1st 1973. Oh, and the Queen's limo.[/p][/quote]Really, half of your list causes pollution, and I can use a vehicle which would cause pollution on private land without having to pay "road tax". So it is for the use of the road.[/p][/quote]Well said Ed in. As you probably noticed from post similar to yours like mine, this Shoebury Cyclist is never wrong even when he is. Bet he's a bundle of laughs to have a drink with.[/p][/quote]If you are too thck to comprehend there is no such thing as 'road tax', and that there hasn't been any such thing as 'road tax' for 75 years, that's your problem. Roads are paid for through general taxation: council tax, income tax, VAT, VED, tobacco duty, alcohol duty, it all goes into a central pot and is then allocated as required. There is only one hypothecated (look it up in a dictionary) tax in Britain, the TV licence.[/p][/quote]who rang his bell. Give it a rest please. You have made your point. Go for a ride and cool down[/p][/quote]Clearly the point is not getting home. Or I wouldn't have to keep repeating myself.[/p][/quote]Why do you have to? Ok so people call it road tax, so what? Is it a big deal? Let them believe what they want - why do you want to change everyone's opinions? They're entitled to their own, right or wrong Usually when I see someone say something I think is wrong, I leave it. Why do you have to go on and on repeating it! Anyway to the post that started this - I do pay to use the roads, I pay council tax.[/p][/quote]Again, council tax is not a fee to use roads, it pays for the building and upkeep of roads, but non-council tax payers can still use roads. No-one in the UK is charged a fee to use the roads, unless that road is a toll road. Too many people think paying VED gives them a right to use roads over and above road users who don't have to pay VED. That is why I will always challenge that misconception. Shoebury_Cyclist

5:14pm Wed 9 Jan 13

psorias says...

Goodness. What a lot of feeling over what people call that tax thingy. But is it cheaper to buy it if your car is off the road, than it is, if your going to be driving your car?
Goodness. What a lot of feeling over what people call that tax thingy. But is it cheaper to buy it if your car is off the road, than it is, if your going to be driving your car? psorias

5:55pm Wed 9 Jan 13

Shoebury_Cyclist says...

psorias wrote:
Goodness. What a lot of feeling over what people call that tax thingy. But is it cheaper to buy it if your car is off the road, than it is, if your going to be driving your car?
If you are not using your car, then it is not polluting. You therefore pay a few pounds for a SORN.
[quote][p][bold]psorias[/bold] wrote: Goodness. What a lot of feeling over what people call that tax thingy. But is it cheaper to buy it if your car is off the road, than it is, if your going to be driving your car?[/p][/quote]If you are not using your car, then it is not polluting. You therefore pay a few pounds for a SORN. Shoebury_Cyclist

7:23pm Wed 9 Jan 13

Shoeburyman88 says...

It seems like the whole lot of you are talking rubbish about tax, VED and what have you. Plus the echo has portrayed this quite badly, it's nothing to do with deterring people from using the road quite the opposite use it by all means, my parents have lived just before that bend pictured above and all they and the neighbours want is for people to SLOW DOWN before and going round the bend. The amount of times I've heard cars skid out of control and crash is untrue, just last year someone lost control round the bend went up the kerb and smashed into my mums car, it shunted that much that it done damage to the house aswell. JUST SLOW DOWN and they wouldn't be asking for something to stop people loosing control.
It seems like the whole lot of you are talking rubbish about tax, VED and what have you. Plus the echo has portrayed this quite badly, it's nothing to do with deterring people from using the road quite the opposite use it by all means, my parents have lived just before that bend pictured above and all they and the neighbours want is for people to SLOW DOWN before and going round the bend. The amount of times I've heard cars skid out of control and crash is untrue, just last year someone lost control round the bend went up the kerb and smashed into my mums car, it shunted that much that it done damage to the house aswell. JUST SLOW DOWN and they wouldn't be asking for something to stop people loosing control. Shoeburyman88

12:36am Thu 10 Jan 13

J_blond says...

Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:
psorias wrote:
Goodness. What a lot of feeling over what people call that tax thingy. But is it cheaper to buy it if your car is off the road, than it is, if your going to be driving your car?
If you are not using your car, then it is not polluting. You therefore pay a few pounds for a SORN.
You don't pay for a SORN - it's a declaration that (funnily enough) your car won't be used on the road

Don't you know anything, I'm sick of people thinking they have to pay to take a car off the road etc etc...
[quote][p][bold]Shoebury_Cyclist[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]psorias[/bold] wrote: Goodness. What a lot of feeling over what people call that tax thingy. But is it cheaper to buy it if your car is off the road, than it is, if your going to be driving your car?[/p][/quote]If you are not using your car, then it is not polluting. You therefore pay a few pounds for a SORN.[/p][/quote]You don't pay for a SORN - it's a declaration that (funnily enough) your car won't be used on the road Don't you know anything, I'm sick of people thinking they have to pay to take a car off the road etc etc... J_blond

11:22am Thu 10 Jan 13

Alekhine says...

This is what is in the pipe to replace VED when enough people have switched to zero rated cars:-

http://www.dailymail
.co.uk/news/article-
2224349/Pay-tax-driv
e-motorway-Two-tier-
mean-rich-motorists-
use-fast-routes.html
This is what is in the pipe to replace VED when enough people have switched to zero rated cars:- http://www.dailymail .co.uk/news/article- 2224349/Pay-tax-driv e-motorway-Two-tier- mean-rich-motorists- use-fast-routes.html Alekhine

11:45am Thu 10 Jan 13

Shoebury_Cyclist says...

That's the Daily Mail, inaccurate and scaremongering as ever. For starters they talk about a non-existent tax. They clearly have not done any research.

The truth is driving in the UK is heavily subsidised to the tune of billions of pounds. It's time drivers paid the full cost of their choice of transport. At the moment drivers don't pay anywhere near the actual cost to society of motoring:

http://m.guardian.co
.uk/world/2012/dec/2
5/car-pollution-nois
e-accidents-eu
That's the Daily Mail, inaccurate and scaremongering as ever. For starters they talk about a non-existent tax. They clearly have not done any research. The truth is driving in the UK is heavily subsidised to the tune of billions of pounds. It's time drivers paid the full cost of their choice of transport. At the moment drivers don't pay anywhere near the actual cost to society of motoring: http://m.guardian.co .uk/world/2012/dec/2 5/car-pollution-nois e-accidents-eu Shoebury_Cyclist

11:52am Thu 10 Jan 13

J_blond says...

Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:
That's the Daily Mail, inaccurate and scaremongering as ever. For starters they talk about a non-existent tax. They clearly have not done any research. The truth is driving in the UK is heavily subsidised to the tune of billions of pounds. It's time drivers paid the full cost of their choice of transport. At the moment drivers don't pay anywhere near the actual cost to society of motoring: http://m.guardian.co .uk/world/2012/dec/2 5/car-pollution-nois e-accidents-eu
Because if drivers paid the full cost, they wouldn't be able to afford to drive, and the UK's economy would collapse as people are unable to get to work, go on holiday, go food shopping etc etc...

And don't say you can do all these things on public transport. name me a big out of town supermarket with it's own railway station? Forget taxies, they'll be gone as well. Buses? They couldn't stay exempt for long, and trying to lug a months worth of shopping will be interesting.

People won't have cars on the roads, so 'popping to town' on the offchance won't happen - shopping trips would have to be planned and big purchases missed. Town centres will crumble, shops will close.

The car is as vital to todays world as the pen is to a journalist...
[quote][p][bold]Shoebury_Cyclist[/bold] wrote: That's the Daily Mail, inaccurate and scaremongering as ever. For starters they talk about a non-existent tax. They clearly have not done any research. The truth is driving in the UK is heavily subsidised to the tune of billions of pounds. It's time drivers paid the full cost of their choice of transport. At the moment drivers don't pay anywhere near the actual cost to society of motoring: http://m.guardian.co .uk/world/2012/dec/2 5/car-pollution-nois e-accidents-eu[/p][/quote]Because if drivers paid the full cost, they wouldn't be able to afford to drive, and the UK's economy would collapse as people are unable to get to work, go on holiday, go food shopping etc etc... And don't say you can do all these things on public transport. name me a big out of town supermarket with it's own railway station? Forget taxies, they'll be gone as well. Buses? They couldn't stay exempt for long, and trying to lug a months worth of shopping will be interesting. People won't have cars on the roads, so 'popping to town' on the offchance won't happen - shopping trips would have to be planned and big purchases missed. Town centres will crumble, shops will close. The car is as vital to todays world as the pen is to a journalist... J_blond

12:04pm Thu 10 Jan 13

Shoebury_Cyclist says...

Gosh, how miserable the world must have been before the 50s car boom. Imagine having to support your local shops instead of driving a 60 mile round trip to spend money outside your local community. Must have been hell on Earth.
Gosh, how miserable the world must have been before the 50s car boom. Imagine having to support your local shops instead of driving a 60 mile round trip to spend money outside your local community. Must have been hell on Earth. Shoebury_Cyclist

12:23pm Thu 10 Jan 13

Alekhine says...

The Guardian does say that non-ringfenced motoring taxes (VED) have not been offset aganist the calculated cost, so their article is very misleading.

It also says:-

"We should celebrate the fact that cars are getting cleaner, greener and safer rather than indulge in a doctrinaire debate about external costs."

This is right. But in the future, when cars don't pollute it will still be necessary to tax them. This simple fact exposes the duplicity of politicians in telling the public that car drivers are not paying for the road because VED is not ringfenced.
The Guardian does say that non-ringfenced motoring taxes (VED) have not been offset aganist the calculated cost, so their article is very misleading. It also says:- "We should celebrate the fact that cars are getting cleaner, greener and safer rather than indulge in a doctrinaire debate about external costs." This is right. But in the future, when cars don't pollute it will still be necessary to tax them. This simple fact exposes the duplicity of politicians in telling the public that car drivers are not paying for the road because VED is not ringfenced. Alekhine

12:31pm Thu 10 Jan 13

J_blond says...

Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:
Gosh, how miserable the world must have been before the 50s car boom. Imagine having to support your local shops instead of driving a 60 mile round trip to spend money outside your local community. Must have been hell on Earth.
The world has changed - local supermarkets now move away from town centre building to be able to build bigger stores in the middle of nowhere. Smaller shops find it hard to compete and therefore close.

I'd happily go to my local shopping centre, but unfortunately it recently burnt down. The other alternative is Laindon Centre, which used to be full of different shops. Now there's only a couple of chemists, a bakers, and a Co-Op which doesn't offer as much as the Asda in Pipps Hill. So I travel there.

The car changed the economics of the world. The world wasn't miserable before the 50s - but it was different. Change brings new structure, and if change reverts, that structure collapses, unfortunately the foundations will have already been filled in, with nothing to replace.
[quote][p][bold]Shoebury_Cyclist[/bold] wrote: Gosh, how miserable the world must have been before the 50s car boom. Imagine having to support your local shops instead of driving a 60 mile round trip to spend money outside your local community. Must have been hell on Earth.[/p][/quote]The world has changed - local supermarkets now move away from town centre building to be able to build bigger stores in the middle of nowhere. Smaller shops find it hard to compete and therefore close. I'd happily go to my local shopping centre, but unfortunately it recently burnt down. The other alternative is Laindon Centre, which used to be full of different shops. Now there's only a couple of chemists, a bakers, and a Co-Op which doesn't offer as much as the Asda in Pipps Hill. So I travel there. The car changed the economics of the world. The world wasn't miserable before the 50s - but it was different. Change brings new structure, and if change reverts, that structure collapses, unfortunately the foundations will have already been filled in, with nothing to replace. J_blond

12:34pm Thu 10 Jan 13

J_blond says...

You see to me, the best alternative to the current car is the hydrogen fuelled car, some of which are beginning to be developed by the larger car makers. Hyundai are launching a hydrogen powered car, and Ford are working on a program to produce a hydrogen fuelled engine.

It gives the range of a standard petrol / Diesel, without the pollution. That is the future of transport. It won't replace the petrol driven vehicles straight away, but electric will never replace them!
You see to me, the best alternative to the current car is the hydrogen fuelled car, some of which are beginning to be developed by the larger car makers. Hyundai are launching a hydrogen powered car, and Ford are working on a program to produce a hydrogen fuelled engine. It gives the range of a standard petrol / Diesel, without the pollution. That is the future of transport. It won't replace the petrol driven vehicles straight away, but electric will never replace them! J_blond

1:10pm Thu 10 Jan 13

John T Pharro says...

Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:
Gosh, how miserable the world must have been before the 50s car boom. Imagine having to support your local shops instead of driving a 60 mile round trip to spend money outside your local community. Must have been hell on Earth.
I'm surprised you have a computer or pad. Think of all the added CO2 you are putting the atmosphere using yours as well as the hot air you generate adding to global warming.
[quote][p][bold]Shoebury_Cyclist[/bold] wrote: Gosh, how miserable the world must have been before the 50s car boom. Imagine having to support your local shops instead of driving a 60 mile round trip to spend money outside your local community. Must have been hell on Earth.[/p][/quote]I'm surprised you have a computer or pad. Think of all the added CO2 you are putting the atmosphere using yours as well as the hot air you generate adding to global warming. John T Pharro

6:03pm Thu 10 Jan 13

Shoebury_Cyclist says...

J_blond wrote:
You see to me, the best alternative to the current car is the hydrogen fuelled car, some of which are beginning to be developed by the larger car makers. Hyundai are launching a hydrogen powered car, and Ford are working on a program to produce a hydrogen fuelled engine.

It gives the range of a standard petrol / Diesel, without the pollution. That is the future of transport. It won't replace the petrol driven vehicles straight away, but electric will never replace them!
Won't solve traffic congestion though.
[quote][p][bold]J_blond[/bold] wrote: You see to me, the best alternative to the current car is the hydrogen fuelled car, some of which are beginning to be developed by the larger car makers. Hyundai are launching a hydrogen powered car, and Ford are working on a program to produce a hydrogen fuelled engine. It gives the range of a standard petrol / Diesel, without the pollution. That is the future of transport. It won't replace the petrol driven vehicles straight away, but electric will never replace them![/p][/quote]Won't solve traffic congestion though. Shoebury_Cyclist

6:04pm Thu 10 Jan 13

Shoebury_Cyclist says...

John T Pharro wrote:
Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:
Gosh, how miserable the world must have been before the 50s car boom. Imagine having to support your local shops instead of driving a 60 mile round trip to spend money outside your local community. Must have been hell on Earth.
I'm surprised you have a computer or pad. Think of all the added CO2 you are putting the atmosphere using yours as well as the hot air you generate adding to global warming.
You can always tell when a person on this website has lost the argument, because they switch to attacking the person they disagree with.
[quote][p][bold]John T Pharro[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Shoebury_Cyclist[/bold] wrote: Gosh, how miserable the world must have been before the 50s car boom. Imagine having to support your local shops instead of driving a 60 mile round trip to spend money outside your local community. Must have been hell on Earth.[/p][/quote]I'm surprised you have a computer or pad. Think of all the added CO2 you are putting the atmosphere using yours as well as the hot air you generate adding to global warming.[/p][/quote]You can always tell when a person on this website has lost the argument, because they switch to attacking the person they disagree with. Shoebury_Cyclist

6:16pm Thu 10 Jan 13

John T Pharro says...

Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:
John T Pharro wrote:
Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:
Gosh, how miserable the world must have been before the 50s car boom. Imagine having to support your local shops instead of driving a 60 mile round trip to spend money outside your local community. Must have been hell on Earth.
I'm surprised you have a computer or pad. Think of all the added CO2 you are putting the atmosphere using yours as well as the hot air you generate adding to global warming.
You can always tell when a person on this website has lost the argument, because they switch to attacking the person they disagree with.
Agree like you calling people thick means you lost the argument.
[quote][p][bold]Shoebury_Cyclist[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]John T Pharro[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Shoebury_Cyclist[/bold] wrote: Gosh, how miserable the world must have been before the 50s car boom. Imagine having to support your local shops instead of driving a 60 mile round trip to spend money outside your local community. Must have been hell on Earth.[/p][/quote]I'm surprised you have a computer or pad. Think of all the added CO2 you are putting the atmosphere using yours as well as the hot air you generate adding to global warming.[/p][/quote]You can always tell when a person on this website has lost the argument, because they switch to attacking the person they disagree with.[/p][/quote]Agree like you calling people thick means you lost the argument. John T Pharro

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